or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › B&W Owner's Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

B&W Owner's Thread - Page 450

post #13471 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

It belongs in a B&W thread when you are comparing a B&W subwoofer with another subwoofer. I thought that was pretty self-evident.

I must have missed the comparison part...you just posted a bunch of numbers. That was my point: Choosing to believe those numbers you posted provides an adequate comparison between those subs. Recommending against any subwoofer solely based on those numbers does not do a service to readers. I know you disagree.

In any case, others seem to value the numbers, so I will bow out.

B.
post #13472 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post

Gonna have to agree with AcuDef on this one. I don't think that you're only allowed to recommend B&W products in this thread when someone's asking for advice.

I bought a B&W sub as part of a package and asked for advice here when I wasn't satisfied with it (sounded good, but I wanted more). Got recommendations from some here (including AcuDef) and in other threads and went with dual subs from an ID brand for not much more than the B&W sub and couldn't be happier.

I agree wholeheartedly. I would also expect that if were someone were making a recommendation on a product that they actually have experience with it. Would you recommend a restaurant's food to someone without eating it? I suppose some do...and make their decisions based on others all the time. In the case of a meal it isn't such a big deal I suppose, but buying an expensive product without trying it seems worth avoiding in most cases.

B.
post #13473 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post

I don't have enough experience with HT subs, but in the car arena, there was a definite sound difference between different subs. And I don't mean measurements and loudness, I mean different like B&W vs. Revel. JL, and in particular the w6 and the w7 (same as the fathom drivers) have a fairly unique sound imho. Are you guys saying that in HT, subs all sound the same? Or is it that JLs just performed better and therefore "sounded" better in the car...

They sound different just like other speakers sound different--just not as obvious and due to the same differences in car subs...box design, driver size, power output and most importantly environment. This is one of the biggest problems comparing output performance from an unfamiliar environment (as listed above). Just a starting point...

B.
post #13474 of 17844
My B&W CM series speakers never sounded so good since I added a Submersive HP.
post #13475 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach KG View Post

My B&W CM series speakers never sounded so good since I added a Submersive HP.

You've got one nice setup: CM9s for L/R, CMC2 for center, CM7s for surrounds and a Submersive sub? Bet that combo sounds great.
post #13476 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

Would you recommend a restaurant's food to someone without eating it? I suppose some do...and make their decisions based on others all the time. In the case of a meal it isn't such a big deal I suppose..

This doesn't belong in a B&W thread. B&W are not food. eek.gif
post #13477 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach KG View Post

My B&W CM series speakers never sounded so good since I added a Submersive HP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post

You've got one nice setup: CM9s for L/R, CMC2 for center, CM7s for surrounds and a Submersive sub? Bet that combo sounds great.


Careful gentlemen, some people might take offense to that. eek.gifbiggrin.gif
post #13478 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

They [subs] sound different just like other speakers sound different...

Subs sound differently because some subs can only output 102dB @ 40Hz and some can output 120dB; some subs have more distortion than others; and some subs have higher Q-values than others.

Subs may only have to reproduce 20-40Hz.

Speakers may have to reproduce 25Hz-16kHz.

It's preposterous to compare or relate the sound quality difference between speakers and subwoofers.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 4/7/13 at 4:19pm
post #13479 of 17844
I put in my order for a pair of 802D2's in Piano Black on Friday! biggrin.gif Definately looking forward to their arrival.

I'd like some opinions on setup - my current 7.1 consists of 803D2 L/R, HTM2D2 Center, CM5s for SL/SR and another pair of CM5s for SBL/SBR. I plan on moving my 803D2's to the back which would take the place of SBR/SBL channels that 1 pair of CM5's currently occupy.

I'm wondering if I should stick with the 7.1 setup that would still contain a pair of CM5s for the SL/SR channels, or should I drop down to 5.1 and stick with just all 800 series speakers? I know I'd have to try it and see, but was curious if anyone else has dropped down from 7.1->5.1 and achieved better results. In the caes of movie tracks that are only 5.1, I DO use the matrixing options to get sound to all 7 channels if that factors here...
post #13480 of 17844
Why are 685s so hard to find? Have not been able to locate any online or locally. Any suggestions appreciated.
post #13481 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrinch View Post

I put in my order for a pair of 802D2's in Piano Black on Friday! biggrin.gif Definately looking forward to their arrival.

I'd like some opinions on setup - my current 7.1 consists of 803D2 L/R, HTM2D2 Center, CM5s for SL/SR and another pair of CM5s for SBL/SBR. I plan on moving my 803D2's to the back which would take the place of SBR/SBL channels that 1 pair of CM5's currently occupy.

I'm wondering if I should stick with the 7.1 setup that would still contain a pair of CM5s for the SL/SR channels, or should I drop down to 5.1 and stick with just all 800 series speakers? I know I'd have to try it and see, but was curious if anyone else has dropped down from 7.1->5.1 and achieved better results. In the caes of movie tracks that are only 5.1, I DO use the matrixing options to get sound to all 7 channels if that factors here...
I would think you would want to move the 803s to SR and SL and have the CM5 s for surround backs. That way you can do 5.1 for multichannel music. I could certainly be wrong but I thought Surrounds were more important then the backs but the I only have heights, not surround backs.

Oh, and congrats on the 802D2s!!!
post #13482 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrinch View Post

I put in my order for a pair of 802D2's in Piano Black on Friday! biggrin.gif Definately looking forward to their arrival.

I'd like some opinions on setup - my current 7.1 consists of 803D2 L/R, HTM2D2 Center, CM5s for SL/SR and another pair of CM5s for SBL/SBR. I plan on moving my 803D2's to the back which would take the place of SBR/SBL channels that 1 pair of CM5's currently occupy.

I'm wondering if I should stick with the 7.1 setup that would still contain a pair of CM5s for the SL/SR channels, or should I drop down to 5.1 and stick with just all 800 series speakers? I know I'd have to try it and see, but was curious if anyone else has dropped down from 7.1->5.1 and achieved better results. In the caes of movie tracks that are only 5.1, I DO use the matrixing options to get sound to all 7 channels if that factors here...

I would say stick with 7.1 however my suggestion is for the 803's in the surround position rather than the rears. The reason is because the speakers will be firing directly towards your ears so you will more easily be able to detect a timbre mismatch. It's harder to pick up on timbre mismatches from behind simply because the sound is coming from outside our principal hearing focal point.
post #13483 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I would think you would want to move the 803s to SR and SL and have the CM5 s for surround backs. That way you can do 5.1 for multichannel music. I could certainly be wrong but I thought Surrounds were more important then the backs but the I only have heights, not surround backs.

Oh, and congrats on the 802D2s!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

I would say stick with 7.1 however my suggestion is for the 803's in the surround position rather than the rears. The reason is because the speakers will be firing directly towards your ears so you will more easily be able to detect a timbre mismatch. It's harder to pick up on timbre mismatches from behind simply because the sound is coming from outside our principal hearing focal point.

Great advice, thank you guys! I forgot to mention one crucial/all important detail - due to my current room layout (15x17), the location of my curret SR/SL speakers are currently wall mounted. This area is also how folks enter the second row of seating (up a step into the second row).

If I were to put the 803's in those areas, I would be blocking entry into the second row - unfortunately, the back rear corners of the room are the only practical place they'll fit... definately not ideal.
post #13484 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrinch View Post


Great advice, thank you guys! I forgot to mention one crucial/all important detail - due to my current room layout (15x17), the location of my curret SR/SL speakers are currently wall mounted. This area is also how folks enter the second row of seating (up a step into the second row).

If I were to put the 803's in those areas, I would be blocking entry into the second row - unfortunately, the back rear corners of the room are the only practical place they'll fit... definately not ideal.

Thanks for giving more info about your room. Not many are fortunate enough for an ideal room, I certainly am not so you make due with the layout available. Even though you will have the 803's in the rear I still say stay 7.1. I went from 7.1 to 5.1 about 2 years ago due to a room layout change and definitely miss the enhanced immersion the extra two surrounds give.
post #13485 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrinch View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I would think you would want to move the 803s to SR and SL and have the CM5 s for surround backs. That way you can do 5.1 for multichannel music. I could certainly be wrong but I thought Surrounds were more important then the backs but the I only have heights, not surround backs.

Oh, and congrats on the 802D2s!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

I would say stick with 7.1 however my suggestion is for the 803's in the surround position rather than the rears. The reason is because the speakers will be firing directly towards your ears so you will more easily be able to detect a timbre mismatch. It's harder to pick up on timbre mismatches from behind simply because the sound is coming from outside our principal hearing focal point.

Great advice, thank you guys! I forgot to mention one crucial/all important detail - due to my current room layout (15x17), the location of my curret SR/SL speakers are currently wall mounted. This area is also how folks enter the second row of seating (up a step into the second row).

If I were to put the 803's in those areas, I would be blocking entry into the second row - unfortunately, the back rear corners of the room are the only practical place they'll fit... definately not ideal.

In your room I would use 5.1 with 803s as surrounds, but located back in the room. I have similar layout (four speakers are four corners), and it works reasonably well for both movies and MC music.
post #13486 of 17844
The CMs on their own sound very good. However, the Submersive take things to "great". Assembling the speaker set up has been a step-by-step process. I considered the CM1s and CM5s for the surrounds until stumbling on lightly used CM7s on AGon. They ended up being roughly the same height & footprint as the CM bookshelf speakers elevated on B&W stands. Luckily, the CM7s were cheaper. IMHO, the CM series in gloss black without grills are some of the best looking speakers around. My experience with B&W is "you get what you pay for" which are speakers that look & sound great without breaking the bank.
post #13487 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

This doesn't belong in a B&W thread. B&W are not food. eek.gif
I'm starting to think you don't belong in a B&W thread. I answered his question regarding B&W and sub differences. If you posted my answer in context everyone could see that, but it sounds like you are more interested in playing silly games now.
post #13488 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Subs sound differently because some subs can only output 102dB @ 40Hz and some can output 120dB; some subs have more distortion than others; and some subs have higher Q-values than others.

Subs may only have to reproduce 20-40Hz.

Speakers may have to reproduce 25Hz-16kHz.

It's preposterous to compare or relate the sound quality difference between speakers and subwoofers.

My experience would contradict your assumptions. SPL is only one aspect of sub differences. You are assuming that people necessarily need more than 102 dB (based on measurements that don't include room gain).

Yes, like speakers some subs have more distortion than others it is just less obvious in subs than in upper ranges. What do Q values have to do with what you are talking about? We are talking about systems, not drivers.

Most people use subwoofers to cover more than one octave. And I would hope all those 15" subs you are recommending have more usable output than just down to 20 Hz.

They are speakers. They are designed to make sound. From there the comparison can be made. I never claimed that they need to operate in the same range or that they were the same types of differences or even magnitude. That is just something you claimed I said.

And just to get this back to B&W. B&W makes a range of subwoofers (like other manufacturers). These speakers are associated with a specific range of product and that gives the end user/customer some idea as to what is recommended to go with what. I believe they even have suggested "systems" that recommend certain L/R with certain subs. Of course, the end user is able to mix and match with whatever brand they want.

Assuming they choose wisely then they might get better performance in their system at a similar price or a lower price. Just looking at some SPL specs does not equate with a completely informed or wise choice.

Again, I ask you specifically: Do you listen to speakers before you buy them or just buy them based on reviews?

I personally would encourage anyone to actually listen to the product before making a decision regardless of brand. It seems you think you can recommend products to people based on limited facts...

My 2 cents,
B.
post #13489 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

My experience would contradict your assumptions. SPL is only one aspect of sub differences. You are assuming that people necessarily need more than 102 dB (based on measurements that don't include room gain).

Yes, like speakers some subs have more distortion than others it is just less obvious in subs than in upper ranges. What do Q values have to do with what you are talking about? We are talking about systems, not drivers.

THX standards for home sound is for subwoofers to be able to play 115dB Max/Dynamic level.

A subwoofer with lower Q-values (0.5) has more dampened bass or tighter bass.

But anyway, let us both just agree to disagree and not make any rude comments towards each other?

Let's just move on.
post #13490 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View PostTHX standards for home sound is for subwoofers to be able to play 115dB Max/Dynamic level.
A subwoofer with lower Q-values (0.5) has more dampened bass or tighter bass.But anyway, let us both just agree to disagree and not make any rude comments towards each other?
Let's just move on.

Yes let's move on and back to B&W, I like the look of the B&W, I heard it sounds very good as well!

 

The DB1 is the most advanced subwoofer Bowers & Wilkins has ever produced. Perfect for home theatre, where its power is palpable, but clean and fast enough for the demands of an audiophile's hi-fi system.

 

GrillOff

DB1

 

 

post #13491 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Yes let's move on and back to B&W, I like the look of the B&W, I heard it sounds very good as well!





The DB1 is the most advanced subwoofer Bowers & Wilkins has ever produced. Perfect for home theatre, where its power is palpable, but clean and fast enough for the demands of an audiophile's hi-fi system.



 









GrillOff



DB1





agreed. getting the rosenut to match the rest of my speakers will also be cool... cool.gif
post #13492 of 17844
What are the advantages of having towers for a home theater system when you already have a capable subwoofer?

e.g 802 diamonds all around vs 805 all around.

Not worth it to go for the towers at all when the main purpose of the setup is HT?

Also, whenever possible, is it better to use the exact same speaker as your L&R channels or get a dedicated center speaker?
post #13493 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

What are the advantages of having towers for a home theater system when you already have a capable subwoofer?

e.g 802 diamonds all around vs 805 all around.

Not worth it to go for the towers at all when the main purpose of the setup is HT?

Also, whenever possible, is it better to use the exact same speaker as your L&R channels or get a dedicated center speaker?

You will likely get two opposing pov's, relating to the philosophy of crossing @80 or not. Some believe it should be done automatically, I am in a different camp.

The 805, while a fantastic speaker, is not the same as the rest of the line - cannot move volumes of air,combined mid/woofer design, no FST...

I fond the ability to cross lower than 80 provides a much visceral experience the automatically assuming 80 is right. A lot depending upon the speaker and the room, but I have 802 803, and 805's. I can run the 802's full or crossed at 40, and after a lot of comparative listening, find this much better than running at 80.

The 802 spherical midrange enclosure does really improve clarity as well.

As well,if music is part of your listening, you might like the option of two channel full range listening.

Not right answer, but my two cents

Plus, you have to have the coin to burn...
post #13494 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Yes let's move on and back to B&W, I like the look of the B&W...

DB1



It's too SQUARED IMO.

It doesn't fit the shapes of the CURVED Diamonds.

It would be awesome if they could take the body of the 800D and turn it into a big subwoofer.

That would be so kicka$$. biggrin.gif

What do you guys think about that? biggrin.gif
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 4/8/13 at 4:49pm
post #13495 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

What are the advantages of having towers for a home theater system when you already have a capable subwoofer?

e.g 802 diamonds all around vs 805 all around.

Not worth it to go for the towers at all when the main purpose of the setup is HT?

Also, whenever possible, is it better to use the exact same speaker as your L&R channels or get a dedicated center speaker?

I think if you have [4 or 5 kicka$$ subs + 2 805D2] vs [1 or 2 subs + 2 802D2], it may even the playing fields a little. biggrin.gif

I think using all identical vertical speakers is equivocally better, but a good horizontal center speaker can also sound great.
post #13496 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

It's too SQUARED.

It doesn't fit the shapes of the CURVED Diamonds.

It would be awesome if they could take the body of the 800D and turn it into a big subwoofer.

That would be so kicka$$. biggrin.gif

What do you guys think about that? biggrin.gif

I agree, I hate the solid cube design, I preferred the older B&W high-end sub designs better. Just having a curved cabinet would be more appealing to me. I also don't like the dual 12" opposing design, I personally would have preferred they offered a 15" or 18" single driver option.

hmmm, that's an interesting thought, a sub in an 800's body, that would remind me of the JL Audio Gotham in principal, not as big as Wilson's Thor's Hammer but a bit larger perhaps than the Gotham. Only downside, you know B&W would charge a mint for such a beast like JL Audio and Wilson do for their bad boys.
post #13497 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View PostYou will likely get two opposing pov's, relating to the philosophy of crossing @80 or not. Some believe it should be done automatically, I am in a different camp. The 805, while a fantastic speaker, is not the same as the rest of the line - cannot move volumes of air,combined mid/woofer design, no FST... I fond the ability to cross lower than 80 provides a much visceral experience the automatically assuming 80 is right. A lot depending upon the speaker and the room, but I have 802 803, and 805's. I can run the 802's full or crossed at 40, and after a lot of comparative listening, find this much better than running at 80.
 
The 802 spherical midrange enclosure does really improve clarity as well.  As well,if music is part of your listening, you might like the option of two channel full range listening. Not right answer, but my two cents

Plus, you have to have the coin to burn...

Yes that's true I am unimpressed with the 805D, I am thinking that if I sell the two pairs of 802Ds I might just use the money to buy myself a nice pair of Sonus Faber Elips SE, always dreamed to own a pair of those.

 

 

 

 http://www.stylusaudio.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Sonus-faber-Elipsa-SE.Tone-Audio.pdf

post #13498 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

I agree, I hate the solid cube design, I preferred the older B&W high-end sub designs better. Just having a curved cabinet would be more appealing to me. I also don't like the dual 12" opposing design, I personally would have preferred they offered a 15" or 18" single driver option.

hmmm, that's an interesting thought, a sub in an 800's body, that would remind me of the JL Audio Gotham in principal, not as big as Wilson's Thor's Hammer but a bit larger perhaps than the Gotham. Only downside, you know B&W would charge a mint for such a beast like JL Audio and Wilson do for their bad boys.

I know I've flashed a few numbers on subs, but if B&W had made a sub using the body of the 800D, I would buy it REGARDLESS of how they measured. biggrin.gif

And they could cut cost & weight by making the sub unpowered (using ext amp). biggrin.gif

Picture a McIntosh amp driving a 800D subwoofer. biggrin.gif

My dual RBH Reference SX-1010N (equivalent to SX-12) is literally the "body" of the speaker. A single sub could output high quality (low distortion, low Q) 108/111.1/113.7/112.7dB @ 32/40/50/62Hz from 2M.

The body of the 800D (& 802D) is much bigger than the SX-1010N! I bet a 800D or even 802D Sub could do 119-120dB across the sub frequencies. Imagine dual 800 or 802 subs flanking your dual 800D2 or 802D2! biggrin.gif
post #13499 of 17844
Anyone know how I can get a single 685 to use as a center channel?
post #13500 of 17844
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I know I've flashed a few numbers on subs, but if B&W had made a sub using the body of the 800D, I would buy it REGARDLESS of how they measured. biggrin.gif

And they could cut cost & weight by making the sub unpowered (using ext amp). biggrin.gif

Picture a McIntosh amp driving a 800D subwoofer. biggrin.gif

My dual RBH Reference SX-1010N (equivalent to SX-12) is literally the "body" of the speaker. A single sub could output high quality (low distortion, low Q) 108/111.1/113.7/112.7dB @ 32/40/50/62Hz from 2M.

The body of the 800D (& 802D) is much bigger than the SX-1010N! I bet a 800D or even 802D Sub could do 119-120dB across the sub frequencies. Imagine dual 800 or 802 subs flanking your dual 800D2 or 802D2! biggrin.gif

Have you guys seen the REL Gibraltar sub? I always thout it *looked* really good (unsure on actual performance), having a semi-curved cabinet which would look pretty good next to the 800 series diamond speakers. I have the 528 and fiinish fits in perfect with my other speakers.
Edited by tgrinch - 4/8/13 at 5:41pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › B&W Owner's Thread