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post #14071 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

B&W should be able to sell you a single 685, so just email B&W directly and they can help you out - like talking to your dealer, etc.

I would get a 685 as a center if I could buy a single, not if I had to buy a pair. But I bet B&W customer service can help you out in some way.

If you compare the 684 vs 683 again for an hour and still feel the 684 sounds clearer or better, than buy the 684. Trust your ears, as long as you have plenty of audition time and materials.

do you know if i can lay the 685 on the side because i wouldnt know where to put it if i have to stand it up right?
post #14072 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hnnyyyy View Post

do you know if i can lay the 685 on the side because i wouldnt know where to put it if i have to stand it up right?

I wouldn't recommend it.

I think you'd be better off just getting the horizontal center. biggrin.gif
post #14073 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

If you don't need the angled speakers for surround then you are better off with 682 vs 818. If you want better quality then you are better off with the 662 vs. the 683. However, your room size is moderate to big so that would be the argument to go with 8" woofer if you play at louder levels.

Your dealer is probably recommending the CMC vs the CMC2 because it better matches the L/R you are getting. If I were you I would go to a CM8 or CM9 vs. spending the money on surrounds (as AccuDefTech guy suggests). From a sound quality standpoint the CMC2 is better--as everyone has said. There is no issue with your room size.

As for a sub and your stated ratio of 80% for movies I would go with a better sub than the 610. At minimum you should go with the 610XP/CM10 or CM12. I'm not familiar with the other subs recommended, but keep in mind, if you go larger (15") you need to make sure that it will blend well with the smaller front speakers you are looking at so there are no gaps in the mid-bass, etc. That would be my argument to stay with a slightly smaller woofer (without seeing specs or knowing the response of the woofer from experience)--better response in the upper bass ranges.

As other suggested, in general, the more you spend the better it will be.

B.

Thanks for your reply man.... I can believe how great you guys are....

So I am going to pull the trigger in a day or two...

Fronts : CM5s, I can't do floor standing so going with the best bookshelves
Center : CMCenter 2
Surround : was set on 683 but now given your suggestion about 662 being better quality, I am confused, how do these compare to each other I what shall be he difference between the two?

Sub: I think I am gonna go with Velodyne 12" seems like 15" shall be too ig for my set up but I can be wrong...
post #14074 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hnnyyyy View Post

I need some help I currently have a living room 18x14 sq ft. I'm currently running 685 as my mains with sc4000 sw and Yamaha 720. I purchased the 683 and still unsure if it was the right move because when I was demoing the 683 vs 684 I really liked both and didn't know if the extra cost was worth it. The 683 sounded a lot better to me in the lows but that's what I also have an extra sw for. I really like the way mids and highs sounded on both speaker but the 684 for some reason seemed a little more ear popping and clear for me. Was I just imagining things or has anyone else experienced the same thing as I did. So my plan is throwing my 685 as rears and still deciding on what towers I want to use for my fronts I already payed for my towers but picking up Friday and they have both towers in stock so I could exchange the 683 for 684 if I want. Please help and last dilemma I use to have the htm61 center which I thought sounded alright but I read a lot of people talking abut using a 685 as a center. I know magnolia only sell by pair would it be worth buying another pair of 685 and setting up a 6.1 setup but I know that is kind of awkward because most content is 5.1 and wouldn't take advantage of the extra speaker back speaker

It's positioning. That's why auditioning speakers is difficult.Example speaker A sounds better than speaker B yet move speaker B and speaker B sounds better. Then you loved speaker C and bought it but if you were able to try them all out in your home speaker D was the one you should have bought but you had to go by what it sounded like at the store.
The 683 naturally should have bigger bass because of the extra driver but again it's positioning. You move a speaker you can weaken or strengthen even bloat the bass.
Yet in moving them around you can affect the highs and mids you can get it smooth,mute parts,make it piercing,increase detail,lose detail etc..
Sometimes a speaker with less bass capability such as the 684 can sound better in the highs and mids.
That's why a bookshelf speaker can beat a tower speaker.
It might not have all that bass or the huge sound but its highs and mids are just better.
Yet again it could all be positioning and the 683 could be better in the highs and mids if it had better positioning.
As for your dilemma if it's mostly for movies,tv,games, and you don't need the bass go with the 684 perhaps.
Really all you could do is listen more move them around if possible and flip a coin but if you don't think it's worth the extra money go with the 684.Then use the money you saved on 684 over the 683 for a B&W center.
The only way you ever truly would know is if you were able to take both the 683 and 684 to your home and listen.
Edited by nothingspecial - 6/19/13 at 1:14pm
post #14075 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by saurabhbatra View Post

Thanks for your reply man.... I can believe how great you guys are....

So I am going to pull the trigger in a day or two...

Fronts : CM5s, I can't do floor standing so going with the best bookshelves
Center : CMCenter 2
Surround : was set on 683 but now given your suggestion about 662 being better quality, I am confused, how do these compare to each other I what shall be he difference between the two?

Sub: I think I am gonna go with Velodyne 12" seems like 15" shall be too ig for my set up but I can be wrong...

If money is not a problem then go from CM5 >> PM1 >> 805.

CMC2 would work with PM1 too.

Sorry if I confused you on the surround. For movies and room size the 683 is a good choice. The "2" series uses better crossover, improved magnet, better basket (I think)--anyway might make a difference for music, but not as likely for theater. Again, if $ is no object then get the 682 and have bigger and better!

Set up is the most important thing. This can make or break the system so make sure you do the best you can.

Good luck and enjoy it!

Brian
post #14076 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingspecial View Post

It's positioning. That's why auditioning speakers is difficult.Example speaker A sounds better than speaker B yet move speaker B and speaker B sounds better. Then you loved speaker C and bought it but if you were able to try them all out in your home speaker D was the one you should have bought but you had to go by what it sounded like at the store.
The 683 naturally should have bigger bass because of the extra driver but again it's positioning. You move a speaker you can weaken or strengthen even bloat the bass.
Yet in moving them around you can affect the highs and mids you can get it smooth,mute parts,make it piercing,increase detail,lose detail etc..
Sometimes a speaker with less bass capability such as the 684 can sound better in the highs and mids.
That's why a bookshelf speaker can beat a tower speaker.
It might not have all that bass or the huge sound but its highs and mids are just better.
Yet again it could all be positioning and the 683 could be better in the highs and mids if it had better positioning.
As for your dilemma if it's mostly for movies,tv,games, and you don't need the bass go with the 684 perhaps.
Really all you could do is listen more move them around if possible and flip a coin but if you don't think it's worth the extra money go with the 684.Then use the money you saved on 684 over the 683 for a B&W center.
The only way you ever truly would know is if you were able to take both the 683 and 684 to your home and listen.
thanks for the reply i havent received my speakers but i know i would be happy with the 683 as i was when i bought the 685. now for the center im having a very hard difficult time of finding a center. i use to have the htm61 but returned it and im thinking of buying a pair of 685 and doing a 6.1 setup with the 685 as a center which i really only want a 5.1 since im in a 18x14 sq ft and its an apartment but i know they dont sell single bw bookshelf thats why i was going to do a 6.1 setup
post #14077 of 17854
Look in the AVS classifieds. There was a single 685 up for sale a few weeks ago. It was brand new. The member had bought a pair to use one for a center and was selling off the unused speaker. You might have to dig back a few pages, but it's there.
post #14078 of 17854
So if I'm already running 805D2's up front, will there be any advantage to upgrading to 802D2's or 800D2's if I plan to pair the 805's with 1 or 2 DB1's? I'm actually considering the REL G2, B&W DB1 or Paradigm Sub 2. Obviously the Sub 2 will be more of a stretch for me, but I want something that will integrate seamlessly with my 805's and also provide me with almost unlimited bass (low frequency) extension. My other requirement for a sub is, that it be relatively small with great fit and finish (basically something on par or better than the build quality of my 805's). My main priority though is that the sub blends seamlessly with my 805's for music mainly. I'd like it to perform well with movies too, but music is my main focus.

If someone has other suggestions for a sub that meets my requirements, feel free to chime in.
post #14079 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

So if I'm already running 805D2's up front, will there be any advantage to upgrading to 802D2's or 800D2's if I plan to pair the 805's with 1 or 2 DB1's? I'm actually considering the REL G2, B&W DB1 or Paradigm Sub 2. Obviously the Sub 2 will be more of a stretch for me, but I want something that will integrate seamlessly with my 805's and also provide me with almost unlimited bass (low frequency) extension. My other requirement for a sub is, that it be relatively small with great fit and finish (basically something on par or better than the build quality of my 805's). My main priority though is that the sub blends seamlessly with my 805's for music mainly. I'd like it to perform well with movies too, but music is my main focus.

If someone has other suggestions for a sub that meets my requirements, feel free to chime in.

FYI

Subwoofer Performance
CEA Standard (THD <10%, 2 Meters) SPL @ 20/32/40/50/63 Hz:
$1200 B&W ASW-610XP: 85.1/96.1/101.5/105.9/108.9 dB
$500 EMP ES1010i: 85.0/97.0/102.5/106.0/105.0
$700 Emotiva X-Ref 12: 81.0/99.1/103.5/107.6/108.5
$1600 Klipsch SW-311: 84.2/102.6/105.3/108.6/111.4
$769 SVS PB12-NSD: 103.2/105.9/106.5/107.3/108.0
$4000 Velodyne DD15+: 97.0/102.0/109.0/109.0/112.0
$900 Aperion Bravus II 12D: 87.0/105.3/109.8/112.6/112.2
$879 Velodyne EQ-MAX15: 84.8/104.2/110.0/114.2/114.8
$1,200 RBH SX-12: 87.7/108.0/111.1/113.7/112.7
$740 Outlaw LFM-1EX: 101.0/110.7/112.3/113.7/113.8
$800 Power Sound XV15: 102.7/109.6/113.7/116.6/114.7
$800 Epik Empire: 102.2/109.7/113.2/116.4/119.2
$2200 JL Audio F112: 92.8/112.4/116.2/113.3/117.6
$1700 Funk FW12X: 107.0/112.4/114.0/113.9/113.1
$1400 SVS PB12+: 107.0/111.5/114.3/115.3/115.3
$9,000 Paradigm Sig Sub2: 106.4/109.9/113.2/116.9/120.2
$1022 Hsu VTF-15H: 103.9/113.0/115.7/115.7/115.6
$5,000 Velodyne DD18+: 103.4/113.0/115.8/116.8/115.3
$2,000 SVS PB13 Ultra: 110.6/113.5/115.5/117.5/117.8
$1,400 Rythmik FV15HP: 108.1/117.0/119.5/119.1/118.8

As you can see, both the $2K SVS & $1.4K Rythmik best the $9K a paradigm from 20Hz-50Hz, all with the same CEA standards.
post #14080 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

FYI

Subwoofer Performance
CEA Standard (THD <10%, 2 Meters) SPL @ 20/32/40/50/63 Hz:
$1200 B&W ASW-610XP: 85.1/96.1/101.5/105.9/108.9 dB
$500 EMP ES1010i: 85.0/97.0/102.5/106.0/105.0
$700 Emotiva X-Ref 12: 81.0/99.1/103.5/107.6/108.5
$1600 Klipsch SW-311: 84.2/102.6/105.3/108.6/111.4
$769 SVS PB12-NSD: 103.2/105.9/106.5/107.3/108.0
$4000 Velodyne DD15+: 97.0/102.0/109.0/109.0/112.0
$900 Aperion Bravus II 12D: 87.0/105.3/109.8/112.6/112.2
$879 Velodyne EQ-MAX15: 84.8/104.2/110.0/114.2/114.8
$1,200 RBH SX-12: 87.7/108.0/111.1/113.7/112.7
$740 Outlaw LFM-1EX: 101.0/110.7/112.3/113.7/113.8
$800 Power Sound XV15: 102.7/109.6/113.7/116.6/114.7
$800 Epik Empire: 102.2/109.7/113.2/116.4/119.2
$2200 JL Audio F112: 92.8/112.4/116.2/113.3/117.6
$1700 Funk FW12X: 107.0/112.4/114.0/113.9/113.1
$1400 SVS PB12+: 107.0/111.5/114.3/115.3/115.3
$9,000 Paradigm Sig Sub2: 106.4/109.9/113.2/116.9/120.2
$1022 Hsu VTF-15H: 103.9/113.0/115.7/115.7/115.6
$5,000 Velodyne DD18+: 103.4/113.0/115.8/116.8/115.3
$2,000 SVS PB13 Ultra: 110.6/113.5/115.5/117.5/117.8
$1,400 Rythmik FV15HP: 108.1/117.0/119.5/119.1/118.8

As you can see, both the $2K SVS & $1.4K Rythmik best the $9K a paradigm from 20Hz-50Hz, all with the same CEA standards.

Thanks for the performance chart Acu, sucks it didn't have the DB1 though. The chart gives me an idea of the power output, but can you offer any opinions on which would blend better sound wise with the 805's? I actually prefer to have sealed sub too.
post #14081 of 17854
dang it, I want DB1 numbers as well as Rel G1.
post #14082 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post

dang it, I want DB1 numbers as well as Rel G1.

I think the Sub 2 would definitely outperform the DB1 and REL G1, but both the REL and DB1 (from what I've heard) blend wonderfully (music wise) with the B&W 800 series. And that's the reason I'm looking at those specifically. They also look fantastic too. smile.gif

Another plus for the DB1 is that you can calibrate it right from your listening position which takes about 15 minutes. Definitely a big plus in my book.
Edited by LaoChe - 6/20/13 at 1:34pm
post #14083 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

I think the Sub 2 would definitely outperform the DB1 and REL G1, but both the REL and DB1 (from what I've heard) blend wonderfully (music wise) with the B&W 800 series. And that's the reason I'm looking at those specifically. They also look fantastic too. smile.gif

Another plus for the DB1 is that you can calibrate it right from your listening position which takes about 15 minutes. Definitely a big plus in my book.

I will confirm that the DB1 blends seamlessly.

Have not heard the G1 yet but am very interested.
post #14084 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

So if I'm already running 805D2's up front, will there be any advantage to upgrading to 802D2's or 800D2's if I plan to pair the 805's with 1 or 2 DB1's? I'm actually considering the REL G2, B&W DB1 or Paradigm Sub 2. Obviously the Sub 2 will be more of a stretch for me, but I want something that will integrate seamlessly with my 805's and also provide me with almost unlimited bass (low frequency) extension. My other requirement for a sub is, that it be relatively small with great fit and finish (basically something on par or better than the build quality of my 805's). My main priority though is that the sub blends seamlessly with my 805's for music mainly. I'd like it to perform well with movies too, but music is my main focus.

If someone has other suggestions for a sub that meets my requirements, feel free to chime in.

YESSSSSSSS! Upgrade the fronts before getting a sub. There is no contest going from 805> 804/3> 802/800.

B.
post #14085 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

So if I'm already running 805D2's up front, will there be any advantage to upgrading to 802D2's or 800D2's if I plan to pair the 805's with 1 or 2 DB1's? I'm actually considering the REL G2, B&W DB1 or Paradigm Sub 2. Obviously the Sub 2 will be more of a stretch for me, but I want something that will integrate seamlessly with my 805's and also provide me with almost unlimited bass (low frequency) extension. My other requirement for a sub is, that it be relatively small with great fit and finish (basically something on par or better than the build quality of my 805's). My main priority though is that the sub blends seamlessly with my 805's for music mainly. I'd like it to perform well with movies too, but music is my main focus.

If someone has other suggestions for a sub that meets my requirements, feel free to chime in.

802D1 for sale if you are interested :) before buying your sub

post #14086 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

Thanks for the performance chart Acu, sucks it didn't have the DB1 though. The chart gives me an idea of the power output, but can you offer any opinions on which would blend better sound wise with the 805's? I actually prefer to have sealed sub too.

I actually use my KEF 201/2 (same class as the 805D2) speakers w/ dual custom Funk 18.0 sealed subs for 5.1 movies. These blend seamlessly. These sealed Funk 18.0 subs output copious bass and are ultra clean,accurate, tight, fast and furious. IOW, extremely musical.

The sealed Rythmik subs would also be great choices, among others.
post #14087 of 17854
I would never recommend a B&W sub over something from HSU or Chase, SVS, ect..
post #14088 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I would never recommend a B&W sub over something from HSU or Chase, SVS, ect..

I'd never consider an HSU sub. The fit and finish are nowhere close to the DB1, REL or Sub 2. It looks like someone built it in their garage. Not to mention it would be a huge eyesore in a living room. Never heard of Chase. SVS subs are nice but not exactly what I'm looking for. If this was going in a dedicated theater room, I'd get a JTR or Seaton sub and hide them behind the screen. But this is going in a living space, so aesthetics are important.
Edited by LaoChe - 6/20/13 at 7:08pm
post #14089 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I actually use my KEF 201/2 (same class as the 805D2) speakers w/ dual custom Funk 18.0 sealed subs for 5.1 movies. These blend seamlessly. These sealed Funk 18.0 subs output copious bass and are ultra clean,accurate, tight, fast and furious. IOW, extremely musical.

The sealed Rythmik subs would also be great choices, among others.

I looked into the Funk 18.0, but there were some complaints in the thread about fit and finish. No complaints about performance though.
post #14090 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

802D1 for sale if you are interested smile.gif before buying your sub

If you had a pair of 802D2 in piano black I'd definitely be pm'ing you. smile.gif
post #14091 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

So if I'm already running 805D2's up front, will there be any advantage to upgrading to 802D2's or 800D2's if I plan to pair the 805's with 1 or 2 DB1's? I'm actually considering the REL G2, B&W DB1 or Paradigm Sub 2. Obviously the Sub 2 will be more of a stretch for me, but I want something that will integrate seamlessly with my 805's and also provide me with almost unlimited bass (low frequency) extension. My other requirement for a sub is, that it be relatively small with great fit and finish (basically something on par or better than the build quality of my 805's). My main priority though is that the sub blends seamlessly with my 805's for music mainly. I'd like it to perform well with movies too, but music is my main focus.

If someone has other suggestions for a sub that meets my requirements, feel free to chime in.

if you have more concern about music performance I believe that the best option will be to save your money and wait for a future upgrade to 802 or 800. the sub mainly are designed for movie performance but a full range speakers always will do better with music so a posibility could be to get a good cheaper sub for movie like svs or other internet brand and put your money in a bigger speakers.
post #14092 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by leo2498 View Post


if you have more concern about music performance I believe that the best option will be to save your money and wait for a future upgrade to 802 or 800. the sub mainly are designed for movie performance but a full range speakers always will do better with music so a posibility could be to get a good cheaper sub for movie like svs or other internet brand and put your money in a bigger speakers.

I do not agree.  I use a sub with my 800D2s

 

First, I listen to multichannel music, much of which come with an LFE channel.

Second, the advantages of bass management include use of a good specialized LF driver and the ability to place it (and/or EQ it) without the constraints of placement for optimum imaging.

post #14093 of 17854
It is advisable to take advantage of an LFE signal when it is present but most music is not mastered for it. In addition, the fundamental frequencies of vocals and most instruments sits well above 30Hz negating any real need to use subwoofers with full range loudspeakers in the reproduction of music. LFE is a useful feature when producing visceral special effects but it takes a toll on music. You ears will have trouble detecting any, especially at any reasonable volumes, and what they may perceive will be littered with distortion. LFE/subs really good for music? Not if you are listening to it.
Edited by RebelMan - 6/21/13 at 12:36am
post #14094 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I do not agree.  I use a sub with my 800D2s

First, I listen to multichannel music, much of which come with an LFE channel.
Second, the advantages of bass management include use of a good specialized LF driver and the ability to place it (and/or EQ it) without the constraints of placement for optimum imaging.

Agreed....I use subs with my 800's as well for music
post #14095 of 17854
Hey guys,

I've got a fairly large room (23' x 27' x 9.5') with a lack of ideal places to put tower speakers. However, I demoed the CM5's at a local Magnolia and they impressed me. I'm thinking they might be able to create a sufficient amount of sound for the room. I'd use them for 30% movies and 70% TV shows.

What're your thoughts? Can it work? Are there other options I should be considering?

This is the scenario I have to work with:
post #14096 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

I looked into the Funk 18.0, but there were some complaints in the thread about fit and finish. No complaints about performance though.

That was probably just one case and probably a long time ago. I don't know the specific circumstances, but my Funk subs and most Funk subs are exquisite fit and finish, especially the piano black high gloss finish. biggrin.gif

There are other great subs as well, of course.

Rythmik makes some great piano black high gloss sealed subs with ultra accuracy and bass output as well. The key is really to buy an ID brand sub because in terms of accuracy, output, "tightness and musicality", they cannot be beaten by any B&M brand subs, not B&W, not Revel, not KEF, not Velodyne, not JL Audio, etc, at least not for similar prices.

When it comes to subs and seamless integration, accuracy (low THD), tightness and musicality (low Q-value), and brute force output (high SPL, better power compression) are the keys.

One other thing I want to say. Being sealed or ported has nothing to do with tightness or musicality. The Rythmik FV15HP in piano black high-gloss would be sensational, so would the SVS flagship (also ported). So don't "limit" yourself to only sealed subs.

But you know what? A few dB SPL here and there probably makes little difference to most of us. So if money/ budget is not a huge concern, then JL Audio/ Velodyne/ B&W subs will be just fine as well. I was just giving my personal opinion as to what I would do, but everyone is different, which is perfectly understandable. So if you love the aesthetic of the B&W sub, it's okay. Just realize they will "underperform" in terms of SPL, power compression. But the B&W may still sound absolutely wonderful to you, which is all that is important. wink.gif
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 6/21/13 at 7:07am
post #14097 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I do not agree.  I use a sub with my 800D2s

First, I listen to multichannel music, much of which come with an LFE channel.
Second, the advantages of bass management include use of a good specialized LF driver and the ability to place it (and/or EQ it) without the constraints of placement for optimum imaging.

Kal, what do you use for your sub and where do you have it corssed over with the 800s?
post #14098 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post


Kal, what do you use for your sub and where do you have it corssed over with the 800s?

I use a jl Audio f113.  I have the ability to use either 40 or 80Hz or to bypass BM/processing altogether.  The latter is my default unless I choose otherwise.  For example, with the Eschenbach/Philadelphia Saint-Saens #3, I use 40Hz because the recording is 5.0 and, as good as the 800s are, the really bottom end is tighter and more extended with the use of the EQ-ed sub.  I rarely use the 80Hz crossover unless the original recording is somewhat anemic to begin with.

post #14099 of 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by jklick View Post

Hey guys,

I've got a fairly large room (23' x 27' x 9.5') with a lack of ideal places to put tower speakers. However, I demoed the CM5's at a local Magnolia and they impressed me. I'm thinking they might be able to create a sufficient amount of sound for the room. I'd use them for 30% movies and 70% TV shows.

What're your thoughts? Can it work? Are there other options I should be considering?

This is the scenario I have to work with:

I think as long as you get some nice subs, the CM5 will be just fine in your room.
post #14100 of 17854
That's a big relief. Thank you!

What would you classify as "nice"? I've researched a lot of subs. Are there particularly qualities I should be looking for to best complement the CM5's?
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