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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 472

post #14131 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by deeda View Post

If you are going to use 100% for home theater than you can consider bookshelves instead of towers. Others can articulate this better than I, but when you use subs you generally send the LFE to subs and not LCR. If you are not going to listen to music, then woofers in towers are somewhat wasted. The room is quite large so you will likely need two subs (large ones). Also, and perhaps most important, the hardwood floors, walls and windows make the room very accoustically challenged. You will want area rugs, window treatments, etc to help the room. Great speakers can't overcome poor room accoustics.
Thank you for your wisdom; this is awesome stuff.

Even though this journey is beginning with B&W, I want to keep my options open so I am moving this conversation to a separate thread so as to not pollute this one. I thank everyone for their help so far.
post #14132 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I would put the TV and front tower speakers on the wall OPPOSITE the fireplace side.

jklick

You mentioned this is a large room. So can the room be divided into two areas? Like AcuDefTechGuy suggested on the side for the display but have it towards to end of the room (as a HT area) and a different area with the traditional seating in front of the fireplace?
post #14133 of 17801
I have done enough lurking on this thread smile.gif

I pulled the trigger a couple of weeks back and my speakers will be delivered this Wednesday. Can't wait for them to show up.

The set I order was 803Di and HTM2Di up front and 805Di for surround.

I have not settled on the sub-woofer yet but leaning towards ID such as Hsu or Rythmic. Sub is really hard to check out especially for the ID brands. mad.gif
post #14134 of 17801
Shadowfox.... nice system.... it should be outstanding!!!! the sub will be the icing on the cake so get one that matches your room and listening habits.

what are you using for amps and prepro?

Bill
post #14135 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

Shadowfox.... nice system.... it should be outstanding!!!! the sub will be the icing on the cake so get one that matches your room and listening habits.

what are you using for amps and prepro?

Bill

Thanks. I have Integra DHC80.1 for prepro and B&K Ref200.5 for amps. They are both dated and I have probably already spent my next year's budget so they better last for another year.
post #14136 of 17801
I heard that b&k was a good amp. you might just want to keep it. it should run the 805 well. when you are ready you might just want to get a three channel amp for the fronts or three mono or just two monos for the 802 and use the b&k for the center if it sounds great. It is just great to hear someone else on this forum with just a good quality amp running their system not the crazy expensive mono amps.
post #14137 of 17801
We will see as they have not been introduced to each other yet. rolleyes.gif
I sure hope my B&K can hold up. In my last audition I had the 803Di paired up with an Arcam 75wx2 amp and I feel it was able to drive the speakers pretty well.
post #14138 of 17801
Hello, I've had a pair of cm8's for a couple years now. A couple months ago I replaced the tweeter on one after it got pushed in. Bound to happen sooner or later. Now I've found the other one pushed in. Not really thrilled about replacing them over and over again.

Wondering if you kind people could point me in the direction of some covers/guards for the tweeters? Are there many products on the market for this sort of thing? If you've had this issue and have solution I would love to hear it. Pic's would be cool too.

Thanks,

Jim.
post #14139 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHadoWFoX View Post

We will see as they have not been introduced to each other yet. rolleyes.gif
I sure hope my B&K can hold up. In my last audition I had the 803Di paired up with an Arcam 75wx2 amp and I feel it was able to drive the speakers pretty well.

Hi when I auditioned of 803di, they were fed with a mcintosh 302 and I can't believe that this speakers suck all power of this amp when I increased the power at almost 90 db in a mid size room so a good advise is be wise with this because they can easyly clippling your amplifier if you room is big enought. rolleyes.gif
post #14140 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by jklick View Post

what would you recommend for 3 front speakers with $2000 budget? It seems like you guys are convinced I should go towers if I want to use this for movies.

I think either bookshelf or tower would work with a few subs. There's nothing wrong with saving money on bookshelf speakers and allocating that money towards subwoofers.

Towers just look better aesthetically and don't require speaker stands. biggrin.gif
post #14141 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHadoWFoX View Post

I have done enough lurking on this thread smile.gif

I pulled the trigger a couple of weeks back and my speakers will be delivered this Wednesday. Can't wait for them to show up.

The set I order was 803Di and HTM2Di up front and 805Di for surround.

I have not settled on the sub-woofer yet but leaning towards ID such as Hsu or Rythmic. Sub is really hard to check out especially for the ID brands. mad.gif

I think you are heading the the right direction with Rythmik and HSU.
post #14142 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHadoWFoX View Post

Thanks. I have Integra DHC80.1 for prepro and B&K Ref200.5 for amps. They are both dated and I have probably already spent my next year's budget so they better last for another year.

They seem to be great components. I don't see a reason to replace them.

The 803D2 has a sensitivity of 90dB/2.83v/m.

From a listening distance of 4 meters (13 ft), it requires 8 watts per ch to produce 90dB from from 2 speakers (stereo mode).

From 5 meters (16 ft), it requires 13 watts per ch to produce 90dB from from 2 speakers (stereo mode).

From 6 meters (20 ft), it requires 18 watts per ch.

From 10 meters (33 ft), it requires 50 watts per ch.

From 20 meters (66 ft), it requires 200 WPC.

So, it does not require a lot of power if all you listen to is 90dB.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 6/24/13 at 8:35pm
post #14143 of 17801
So I would guess that with Audyssey XT32 you guys would think there is no reason to get a sub that has internal EQ (e.g. DB1/F113)?

I wish there was a way to audition internet brand subs...
post #14144 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post

So I would guess that with Audyssey XT32 you guys would think there is no reason to get a sub that has internal EQ (e.g. DB1/F113)?

I wish there was a way to audition internet brand subs...

I don't think you need internal Sub EQ, but most ID brands have internal Sub EQ as well.

Subs aren't anything like speakers that have to reproduce 50Hz-18kHz (or 20-20kHz).

Subs only have to do 20Hz-80Hz, maybe 15-50Hz sometimes. Tight, accurate, high output is it.

There's really not much "voicing" around 15-50Hz. biggrin.gif
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 6/24/13 at 9:12pm
post #14145 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

They seem to be great components. I don't see a reason to replace them.

The 803D2 has a sensitivity of 90dB/2.83v/m.

From a listening distance of 4 meters (13 ft), it requires 8 watts per ch to produce 90dB from from 2 speakers (stereo mode).

From 5 meters (16 ft), it requires 13 watts per ch to produce 90dB from from 2 speakers (stereo mode).

From 6 meters (20 ft), it requires 18 watts per ch.

From 10 meters (33 ft), it requires 50 watts per ch.

From 20 meters (66 ft), it requires 200 WPC.

So, it does not require a lot of power if all you listen to is 90dB.

yes I know that numbers in paper are this but when I auditioned 803Di's the amplifier was shut off when I went up the volume and it never happened with the 802 when I tested this with this amp in the past so unless the amp was damaged I think that the speaker ate it.

BTW I was seated only 8 ft away, max 10. eek.gif
post #14146 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I don't think you need internal Sub EQ, but most ID brands have internal Sub EQ as well.

Subs aren't anything like speakers that have to reproduce 50Hz-18kHz (or 20-20kHz).

Subs only have to do 20Hz-80Hz, maybe 15-50Hz sometimes. Tight, accurate, high output is it.

There's really not much "voicing" around 15-50Hz. biggrin.gif

Hey, you know I agree with you on a lot of stuff but personally I can hear a difference between subs. For HT, maybe not, but for music definitely.
post #14147 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post

Hey, you know I agree with you on a lot of stuff but personally I can hear a difference between subs. For HT, maybe not, but for music definitely.
What you are hearing are variations in distortion between subs. Some subs are less prone to distort than others when dialed into their sweet spot but all of them do no matter how much effort goes into controlling them. Unless your system is crippled to start with (non-full range loudspeaker or off the chart room modes in the lower octaves) the cure will be worse than the disease. There's nothing right or wrong about preferences for those that choose to use subs in musical settings but if you are striving for signal accuracy in the reproduction subs are better avoided.
post #14148 of 17801
Just got my 684's on a deal in my budget. Love them so far.
post #14149 of 17801
What does di mean? I know diamonds but don't understand when you guys refer to di.
Thank you.
post #14150 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShockFett View Post

What does di mean? I know diamonds but don't understand when you guys refer to di.
Thank you.

It is short for Diamond. It's not official. I should have used D2 which is what b&wgroup support site uses.
smile.gif
post #14151 of 17801
Yup I think we all need to be using the "D2" designation for the current series.... after all if we do not get it correct (being on the "b&w owners thread) who will.
post #14152 of 17801
I wanted to ask some advice on speaker/sub selection. I currently have the Pioneer Elite SC-05 AVR which I absolutely love! I am looking to purchase new main speakers and a sub to replace the following:

Boston Acoustics VR 30 Lynnfield Towers
Eosone Sub

I am looking at the Bowers and Wilkins PM1 speakers after listening to them at a local audio store to replace my mains and the HSU VTF-1 MK2 for my new sub. I have also looked at the Bowers and Wilkins PV1D sub which uses a Class D amplifier. I am wondering what you think pertaining to which sub I should go with and how sonically the PM1's will sound when paired with the SC-05. I heard them driven by a Classe Amp/Pre configuration which of course they are going to sound amazing on. I am looking for a smaller form factor but want great sound and the PM1's will be on-sale this Thursday for around $700.00 off. Any information would be much appreciated. Thanks!
post #14153 of 17801
What thinking of changing my center channel.......

looking for a 802N or 802D single.... any leads?

thanks

Bill

P.S.
still looking for an anthem statement amp p2 or p5 and an older paradigm servo 15
post #14154 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View PostWhat thinking of changing my center channel.......looking for a 802N or 802D single.... any leads?

thanks  Bill

Use to have one now two pairs of 802Ds for sale at the right price

post #14155 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

Yup I think we all need to be using the "D2" designation for the current series.... after all if we do not get it correct (being on the "b&w owners thread) who will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHadoWFoX View Post

It is short for Diamond. It's not official. I should have used D2 which is what b&wgroup support site uses.
smile.gif

That's what I've been saying all along. But some people still keep on saying "Diamond" when the first generation tweeter is also a diamond tweeter. It's not like the first generation 800D's were made of aluminum or something.

They are both diamond tweeter speakers. So D1, D2, etc, makes more sense. In about 5-10 years, they will be D3....then D4.......

Unless some idiots make up a stupid name like Diamond2 for the 3rd Gen. eek.gif

Or maybe they'll call the 3rd GEN the Diamond Cube or even the Diamond Carat.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 6/26/13 at 8:17pm
post #14156 of 17801
Hey guys. First, I know I am going to ruffle some feathers with this post (I know it ruffled mine) but still would like to share my experience. Second, I did NOT do a “blind” test of any sort.

I went to the dealer today to compare an MC452 with my current Marantz MA700s. I brought them to the dealer. The equipment used was 802D2 driven by MC452/MA700/A52 processed by a C48. The C48 had the EQ bypassed and no other room correction or anything else was in the signal path. Music was provided by a mac mini via USB directly into the MC48. We used various content including high res and regular mp3s at 320kbps. We used same cables to the speakers. The MC452 was hooked up to Output 1 via balanced cables and Output 2 was used to either drive the MA700s or the Parasound A52. Audioquest cables were used of the same “line”. Finally, I used a Radioshack SPL meter to ensure that there were no vast differences in listening levels. I mainly listened to the speakers at about 90 db.

I spent most of my time comparing the MC452 to the MA700 and very little time comparing the MC452 to the A52.

Conclusions:
1. MC452 ran around 40ish Watts at 90 db.
2. The 200 watts of the MA700 were more than enough to drive the 802D2 at 90-100 db in the dealer’s room (and mine for that matter).

The above were not surprising but more of a confirmation.

Below is the shocking (to me) part. To be fair, I went to the dealer thinking I was going to merely confirm to myself that there is absolutely no difference between amps.

3. The MC452 sounded DIFFERENT than the Marantz MA700.

Basically when listening to the Marantz MA700 the sound was fine but the music appeared to come from in between the speakers. When listening to the MC452 the sound appeared to come from literally everywhere. There was a very clear and distinct difference between the two. And this was true at higher spl levels as well as low levels which allowed for conversation.

4. The A52 appeared to sound much more like the MA700 but to be fair I spent very little time listening to it.

So I am in a pickle now – do I get an MC452 or do I get an A31 with a subwoofer... or do I keep what I have...
post #14157 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post3. The MC452 sounded DIFFERENT than the Marantz MA700.

Basically when listening to the Marantz MA700 the sound was fine but the music appeared to come from in between the speakers. When listening to the MC452 the sound appeared to come from literally everywhere. There was a very clear and distinct difference between the two. And this was true at higher spl levels as well as low levels which allowed for conversation.

4. The A52 appeared to sound much more like the MA700 but to be fair I spent very little time listening to it.

So I am in a pickle now – do I get an MC452 or do I get an A31 with a subwoofer... or do I keep what I have...

Good for you you used your ears to compare I like it :) Get the MC452

 

I did the same thing before buying the Classé CA-M600 vs the McIntosh MC601 with 800D2 and it was not even comparable. To my ears the dealer and his staff the Classé was so much more transparent where as the Mac felt like the 800D2 had a vail so go figure!

 

I find that Classé really tuned their amp to the B&W, it helps to be part of the same firm.  That's probably why Abbey Road use them in their mastering studio.

 

Any way to each their own, not two ears are alike :)


Edited by wse - 6/26/13 at 9:12pm
post #14158 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Good for you you used your ears to compare I like it smile.gif Get the MC452

I did the same thing before buying the Classé CA-M600 vs the McIntosh MC601 with 800D2 and it was not even comparable. To my ears the dealer and his staff the Classé was so much more transparent where as the Mac felt like the 800D2 had a vail so go figure!

I find that Classé really tuned their amp to the B&W, it helps to be part of the same firm.  That's probably why Abbey Road use them in their mastering studio.

Any way to each their own, not two ears are alike smile.gif

The CA-M600 are very fine amps biggrin.gif
post #14159 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

Yup I think we all need to be using the "D2" designation for the current series.... after all if we do not get it correct (being on the "b&w owners thread) who will.

Its also what they put on the box. so if they call it the 802D2 why would we call it anything else smile.gif

Daniel.
post #14160 of 17801
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post

Hey guys. First, I know I am going to ruffle some feathers with this post (I know it ruffled mine) but still would like to share my experience. Second, I did NOT do a “blind” test of any sort.

I went to the dealer today to compare an MC452 with my current Marantz MA700s. I brought them to the dealer. The equipment used was 802D2 driven by MC452/MA700/A52 processed by a C48. The C48 had the EQ bypassed and no other room correction or anything else was in the signal path. Music was provided by a mac mini via USB directly into the MC48. We used various content including high res and regular mp3s at 320kbps. We used same cables to the speakers. The MC452 was hooked up to Output 1 via balanced cables and Output 2 was used to either drive the MA700s or the Parasound A52. Audioquest cables were used of the same “line”. Finally, I used a Radioshack SPL meter to ensure that there were no vast differences in listening levels. I mainly listened to the speakers at about 90 db.

I spent most of my time comparing the MC452 to the MA700 and very little time comparing the MC452 to the A52.

Conclusions:
1. MC452 ran around 40ish Watts at 90 db.
2. The 200 watts of the MA700 were more than enough to drive the 802D2 at 90-100 db in the dealer’s room (and mine for that matter).

The above were not surprising but more of a confirmation.

Below is the shocking (to me) part. To be fair, I went to the dealer thinking I was going to merely confirm to myself that there is absolutely no difference between amps.

3. The MC452 sounded DIFFERENT than the Marantz MA700.

Basically when listening to the Marantz MA700 the sound was fine but the music appeared to come from in between the speakers. When listening to the MC452 the sound appeared to come from literally everywhere. There was a very clear and distinct difference between the two. And this was true at higher spl levels as well as low levels which allowed for conversation.

4. The A52 appeared to sound much more like the MA700 but to be fair I spent very little time listening to it.

So I am in a pickle now – do I get an MC452 or do I get an A31 with a subwoofer... or do I keep what I have...
I am not surprised. If the rest of the system is transparent enough and the speakers have the capability, you can sometimes hear differences. I also don't think it is just pure watts. The most impressed I have been was with a 100 wpc class A amp which sounded better than 200 wpc class AB monoblocks.
Edit: I seem to remember a fellow AVS'r having a similar experience going from 302 to 452s, may have been on this thread. Perhaps the 452s are a sweet spot in the Mac line.
Edited by jima4a - 6/27/13 at 4:24am
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