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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 491

post #14701 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

Agree! For movies not as important as ADTG notes but for multichannel music they become more significant. I am getting more into the multichannel stuff (SACD and Bluray) and am trying to figure how to run proper surrounds (wiring and physical placement).

It's ultimately a matter of preference.

Some people prefer more sound from the surround speakers for both music & movies. Some people don't.

But REALISTICALLY when we go to LIVE concerts, the musicians are in front of us, not behind or beside us. So we usually hear from the front.

Stylistically or artistically we may prefer sounds from everywhere. So just preference. wink.gif

No right or wrong. smile.gif
post #14702 of 17912
Agreed. I find surround sound music to be very unsettling. I get completely distracted from the music.
post #14703 of 17912
Thanks for your suggestions everyone...
In concerts, I really cannot tell the difference in timbre between the fronts and surrounds...However, in some movies when there is some panning from front to back you can hear the difference... Also, in some multichannel sacd and DVD-Audios music I can also hear some differences...However, my dealer thinks that a bigger upgrade in my system will be in the subwoofer... Currently, I am using the old (legacy) M&K MX350 SFX subwoofer...He is offering me to demo the DB1 at my place so I will accept and go from there....
Personally, I think that the surrounds will make a bigger change, but I could be wrong... Probably, I have been leaving with the M&K sub for a long time that I don't think there is the need for more but I might be missing something that someone else has picked up...
post #14704 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Kal reviews the 804D:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/bowers-amp-wilkins-804-diamond-loudspeaker

Interesting that it was described as laid back - a UK review of the same speaker talks about a bright treble?
I tend to think my own 804D has a slight bright slant...
That's why I have been looking for a nice warm Marantz or Mac MC 303 to partner with it?

Laid back because of the midrange dip.  

post #14705 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

It's ultimately a matter of preference.

Some people prefer more sound from the surround speakers for both music & movies. Some people don't.

But REALISTICALLY when we go to LIVE concerts, the musicians are in front of us, not behind or beside us. So we usually hear from the front.

Stylistically or artistically we may prefer sounds from everywhere. So just preference. wink.gif

No right or wrong. smile.gif

Preference does not replace correctness, it supplements it.  It is not wrong to remix a recording or arrange playback to one's preference and enjoyment but that doesn't make it right (in a logical sense).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
Agreed. I find surround sound music to be very unsettling. I get completely distracted from the music.

Dunno what you are listening to but do you have that problem at live music events?:rolleyes:

post #14706 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Laid back because of the midrange dip.  
Thanks for the feedback Kal..
If the MC 303 wasn't so expensive, I would leap out and get it to partner my 804D right away.

Wish you measured the MC 303 too, and see how it squares against the Classe 5300 (five channel times 300). In my neck of the woods, I can get the Classe for less than the MC 303, but another rag mentioned that the Classe doesn't like low impedance much.. enters current limitation..

Thanks again for a well written review.

Cheers
post #14707 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Thanks for the feedback Kal..
If the MC 303 wasn't so expensive, I would leap out and get it to partner my 804D right away.

Wish you measured the MC 303 too, and see how it squares against the Classe 5300 (five channel times 300). In my neck of the woods, I can get the Classe for less than the MC 303, but another rag mentioned that the Classe doesn't like low impedance much.. enters current limitation..

Thanks again for a well written review.

Cheers
Have you considered the Parasound Halo A31, much less $.
post #14708 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post


Have you considered the Parasound Halo A31, much less $.

I was just going to say that.

post #14709 of 17912
This is a good thread to ask this, I believe, even though off topic due to the expertise that participates. I am starting to really appreciate multichannel music more and originally I had plans to get a preamp with HT bypass such as an Ayre but now I think not so much. I have the 80.3 which does a very good job with SACD and Bluray but I know there are steps above. So options include the P7 with a 105, 8801, Krell Foundation and then too much money (SSP-800, SP3, MX-151). Are there some other options on the horizon?
post #14710 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Thanks for the feedback Kal.. If the MC 303 wasn't so expensive, I would leap out and get it to partner my 804D right away.Wish you measured the MC 303 too, and see how it squares against the Classe 5300 (five channel times 300). In my neck of the woods, I can get the Classe for less than the MC 303, but another rag mentioned that the Classe doesn't like low impedance much.. enters current limitation.. Thanks again for a well written review. Cheers

CLASSE has no problem going down to 2 ohm, so I am not sure where you got your info!
post #14711 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Thanks for the feedback Kal..
If the MC 303 wasn't so expensive, I would leap out and get it to partner my 804D right away.

Wish you measured the MC 303 too, and see how it squares against the Classe 5300 (five channel times 300). In my neck of the woods, I can get the Classe for less than the MC 303, but another rag mentioned that the Classe doesn't like low impedance much.. enters current limitation..

Thanks again for a well written review.

Cheers

Hi I try the stereo version of your 3 amplifier options and finally I chose the CA2300 with my 804D, this amp blend perfectly with this speakers It is not harsh and not have any current limitation. This amp sound awesome and I not look back with my choice(it was blind because my dealer not have a demo). if you can, try a home demo with your dealer and see what could work in your system but not discard classe of your list because you could lose the major experience that the mix could give.
post #14712 of 17912
Since B&W and Classe are owned by the same company, they designed the Classe amps to go well with the 800D series so I have been told smile.gif
post #14713 of 17912
Actually the entire Delta series was designed around the Diamond series of B&W speakers. The Delta series can handle loads down to 2 ohms, and some down to 1 ohm. There's not any B&W speaker made that I would hesitate to drive with Classe amps. I do want to point out that my opinion is based on using the right size Classe amp as follows:

805 and 804 100 watts @ 8 ohms
803 200 watts @ 8 ohms
802 and 800 300 watts and above @ 8 ohms

These are merely suggestions and nothing official.

I would also mention that older Classe amps were built like battleships too, and many times over looked, but real bargains. I would take a Classe amp any day of the week, over most amps out there.

See Ya,
Steve
Edited by ClasseAddict - 9/2/13 at 7:59pm
post #14714 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Agreed. I find surround sound music to be very unsettling. I get completely distracted from the music.

Although I have a collection of 5.1 SACD, DVD-Audio, & BD concerts, I still prefer 2Ch because I also finding distracting hearing sounds from the rear/sides. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Preference does not replace correctness, it supplements it.
We're talking about enjoyment of music here, not neurosurgery or bridge construction. eek.gif

I prefer listening to music only from the front 2 speakers, but there's nothing wrong if people prefer 7 speakers. biggrin.gif
post #14715 of 17912
I'd like to ask a few questions concerning my setup that has to do with my speakers. I'm trying to improve some issues I'm having to get my setup up to par for playing blue-ray movies to full potential given my current equipment. I'm running a 5.1 speaker setup and I have a 2nd sub being built that will make it a 5.2 setup in a few weeks. I have the B&W CM8 series for the front right and left with the matching center, the rears are def tech SR 8080 BP. The receiver I had was a pioneer sc-71 but I exchanged it and ordered a Denon 4520Ci receiver and I ordered the Denon DBT 3313UDCI blue-ray player. Ok so here's a few questions if someone could point me in the rite direction. This is my first setup so there's things I could have done better but I'm trying to work the best I can with what I have to avoid exchanging things out too many times.

1# I noticed that with these cm8s, I have to crank up the volume pretty high just to get them to come to life. The sound quality is very good but I've ran them with different receivers and I always have to turn the volume very high to play movies at a fun level. Is this because of the low speaker sensitivity? Would I benefit enough with an ex 3 ch amp that it would be worth the hassle?

2# I'm looking at ideas to create a little bit of a larger soundstage, I have the front towers toed in to the center of the middle listening point. Would toeing them out help create this?

3# when I run the auto cal I set all 5 speakers to small, and I set the bass crossover on the receiver to 80hz. I usually put the front towers gain to 0db, the center to +2 db, and the rear surrounds to +2, and this usually sounds about rite for movies. One issue that I have is that while watching movies the speakers on the center vibrate too hard and make a kind of distorted noise during certain parts that are more loud. Is this because they're receiving too much lows? I noticed that if I switch the bass crossover on the receiver to 150hz they don't do this as much, but I want the Thx setting of 80hz.


Well thanks for any advice, I'm happy with the quality and looks that these speakers have, I'm just trying to understand better on how to integrate them into my setup a little better.
post #14716 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

CLASSE has no problem going down to 2 ohm, so I am not sure where you got your info!

http://www.hometheater.com/content/classeacute-ct-ssp-surround-processor-and-ct-5300-amplifier-ht-labs-measures-classe-ct-5300-
Quote:
Into 4 ohms, the amplifier consistently engages protection at 190.0 watts and cannot be driven further.
post #14717 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

Have you considered the Parasound Halo A31, much less $.

Thanks, I did ask Kal earlier in this thread, and he did mentioned the MC 303 is smoother and warmer, which will suit the slightly bright 804D better I reckon, but I have not heard the A 31..
I did audition the MC 303 and it was rather nice...
post #14718 of 17912

It appears that measurement was taken with all 5 channels driven.
post #14719 of 17912
Hi everyone,

I've had a pair of CM1s for a couple of years and was in the market to replace my center channel (old JBL speaker from my parent's place.) I'm obviously considering the CMC and CMC2 but I'm having trouble deciding between the two. I've seen multiple threads where people have said that the CMC2 is much better than the CMC, but I'm wondering if the CMC2 would be overkill for my CM1 fronts. I have the means to pay for both, but I found a pretty good deal on a CMC that matches the rosenut finish of my CM1s for about 60% the MSRP (having a hard time finding a rosenut CMC2 on the used-market. I'd be paying the retail price.)

Thanks for the advice!
post #14720 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

I'd like to ask a few questions concerning my setup that has to do with my speakers. I'm trying to improve some issues I'm having to get my setup up to par for playing blue-ray movies to full potential given my current equipment. I'm running a 5.1 speaker setup and I have a 2nd sub being built that will make it a 5.2 setup in a few weeks. I have the B&W CM8 series for the front right and left with the matching center, the rears are def tech SR 8080 BP. The receiver I had was a pioneer sc-71 but I exchanged it and ordered a Denon 4520Ci receiver and I ordered the Denon DBT 3313UDCI blue-ray player. Ok so here's a few questions if someone could point me in the rite direction. This is my first setup so there's things I could have done better but I'm trying to work the best I can with what I have to avoid exchanging things out too many times.

1# I noticed that with these cm8s, I have to crank up the volume pretty high just to get them to come to life. The sound quality is very good but I've ran them with different receivers and I always have to turn the volume very high to play movies at a fun level. Is this because of the low speaker sensitivity? Would I benefit enough with an ex 3 ch amp that it would be worth the hassle?

2# I'm looking at ideas to create a little bit of a larger soundstage, I have the front towers toed in to the center of the middle listening point. Would toeing them out help create this?

3# when I run the auto cal I set all 5 speakers to small, and I set the bass crossover on the receiver to 80hz. I usually put the front towers gain to 0db, the center to +2 db, and the rear surrounds to +2, and this usually sounds about rite for movies. One issue that I have is that while watching movies the speakers on the center vibrate too hard and make a kind of distorted noise during certain parts that are more loud. Is this because they're receiving too much lows? I noticed that if I switch the bass crossover on the receiver to 150hz they don't do this as much, but I want the Thx setting of 80hz.


Well thanks for any advice, I'm happy with the quality and looks that these speakers have, I'm just trying to understand better on how to integrate them into my setup a little better.
My friend Im not fan of mismatched speakers,you should go with CM5 or CM1 for surround backs,whatever receiver you get bi-amp the fronts and set your speaker's on small and set crossover 100hz that will give you the soundstage you are hearing for..
post #14721 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

It appears that measurement was taken with all 5 channels driven.

That is usually how one uses a five channel amp...
post #14722 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Preference does not replace correctness, it supplements it.  It is not wrong to remix a recording or arrange playback to one's preference and enjoyment but that doesn't make it right (in a logical sense).

Dunno what you are listening to but do you have that problem at live music events?rolleyes.gif

I don't hear music coming from behind me at live music events. Perhaps I have directional ears
post #14723 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post


I don't hear music coming from behind me at live music events. Perhaps I have directional ears

1.  Most of what comes from behind and around is correlated ambience.  You hear it although you are not paying attention to it.

2.  You would be very shocked if that sound was removed.  Don't you hear a difference between a performance in a stadium or a small club?

post #14724 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

That is usually how one uses a five channel amp...

Hi I doubt that you will have problem with feed your 804 with the CA5300, I asked the same thing directly to classe international support and Robert said that in a small room you could not see any difference between the CA2300 and the CA5300(the first one can double its power output to 4 ohm) so I think that you need to see what work for you in your room, if you do not like the sound of classe gear it is other thing but this amp could not handle the 804 I hardly believe this. I went for the two channel because I preffer listen music more that multichannel music and this 2,5K USD of more I could use that to get a new stereo preamp. BTW if multichannel is your thing why not use that budget in matching speaker(htm4di and 805Di) I think you will more improvement with that.
post #14725 of 17912
To my knowledge...this is the only review I've ever seen of a Classe amp not being able to handle a lower load. All of the 1st generation Delta series amps can handle down to to 4 ohm loads, or lower, the Omega down to 1 ohm. I originally was using CAM-400 amps with a CA-5100 for surround. I now use the Omegas with a CA-5200 and have not had any issues driving any of my speakers. I agree all 5 channels get driven in a surround application, but rarely do they get driven the way this test was done.

However...it is what it is.

See Ya,
Steve

post #14726 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

1.  Most of what comes from behind and around is correlated ambience.  You hear it although you are not paying attention to it.
2.  You would be very shocked if that sound was removed.  Don't you hear a difference between a performance in a stadium or a small club?

Perhaps but I do know that surround processed music unsettles me. Glad it doesn't unsettle you. I prefer my music from the front. I get all the ambience I need from room reflections.
post #14727 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by esco View Post

Hi everyone,

I've had a pair of CM1s for a couple of years and was in the market to replace my center channel (old JBL speaker from my parent's place.) I'm obviously considering the CMC and CMC2 but I'm having trouble deciding between the two. I've seen multiple threads where people have said that the CMC2 is much better than the CMC, but I'm wondering if the CMC2 would be overkill for my CM1 fronts. I have the means to pay for both, but I found a pretty good deal on a CMC that matches the rosenut finish of my CM1s for about 60% the MSRP (having a hard time finding a rosenut CMC2 on the used-market. I'd be paying the retail price.)

Thanks for the advice!

Hi esco,

I have the CMC that I use with CM5s in front and Def tech 1000s in the rear, and it is as average or below average as most comments on this and other sites describe it as being. After living with it for the last year and not having heard the CMC2 first (scared off at that time by the price and size), I have realized that it has nowhere near the clarity and finesse of the CMC2, which I have now heard, and it is as if they are not related sound-wise at all. I bought mine new with a 20%+ discount from an authorized dealer, but if I had to do it again (and if I had more space on my AV stand for the larger box of the CMC2), I would have gotten the CMC2 in a heartbeat. I can't tell you which would relate better to the CM1s, but overall, they are 2 entirely different beasts. Good luck with your decision.
post #14728 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Thanks, I did ask Kal earlier in this thread, and he did mentioned the MC 303 is smoother and warmer, which will suit the slightly bright 804D better I reckon, but I have not heard the A 31..
I did audition the MC 303 and it was rather nice...

Kal also has an A31...

I too am interested in the MC303 but the price difference is staggering between it and the A31 - for what appears to be very little difference...

On a side note, has anyone used the MC205 and how does that compare to the MC303 on B&W diamonds?
post #14729 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post


I think, both, the amp and pre-amp, create a unique "synergy". Although, I believe, the pre-amp defines the "signature". Of course speakers play a major role as well. I'm sure others can elaborate more on this.

How do you measure "synergy?" How do you define a "signature?" Speakers not only play a major role but, along with room acoustics they play about the only role in modern audio.
post #14730 of 17912
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post


Perhaps but I do know that surround processed music unsettles me. Glad it doesn't unsettle you. I prefer my music from the front. I get all the ambience I need from room reflections.

Aha!  You do but its the wrong ambiance.  "Glad it doesn't unsettle you."

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