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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 495

post #14821 of 17915
I used arch to measure and when I biamp got a flatter response than when it was not.

Did you try feeding 500 watts to the speaker and listen at the same volume that you use to? Any differences that you heard?
post #14822 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalc3 View Post

I used arch to measure and when I biamp got a flatter response than when it was not.

Did you try feeding 500 watts to the speaker and listen at the same volume that you use to? Any differences that you heard?

I compared with the AT3005, which can output 600 watts into 4 ohms @ 1% THD. No difference that I can TELL. I didn't measure though.

But B&W speakers aren't exactly known for flat accurate measurements anyway. The 800D2 measures +/-5dB on-axis.

When your speakers have a frequency response of +/-5dB and the horizontal off-axis response looks like tidal waves, no amplifier in the world is going to magically flatten the frequency response no matter how powerful it is.

I don't think a flat response is something we worry about with B&W. wink.gif

I doubt anyone buys B&W speakers to get a flat room response.

Just enjoy the sound. Forget the measurements. biggrin.gif
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 9/13/13 at 7:56pm
post #14823 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalc3 View Post

Ba01,

You had a thread where you asked whether the parasound a51 will be able to drive the 802ds...the short answer is yes...but, if you are thinking on feeding them with only 250 watts you may feel it underpowered...I bought the 803s and a htm2.... I initially used the a21 to drive the 803s and used the a51 to drivq the htm2 and 4 MK ss150s surrounds...the sound coming from the 803s seem strain and sometimes boxy... I disconnected the rear speakers and use my a21 for the side surrounds.. Then i biamp the 803s and connected to my a51 as well as the center speaker.. The difference was a night and day..very big sound stage, airy, and great dynamic range....I connected the anthem d2v to the a51 with a pair of audioquest diamondback xlr splitters and straightwire maestro xlr cables...

Here is that thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1484551/will-parasound-halo-a-51-drive-b-w-802-diamonds

The consensus was that the Halo A 51 will have no trouble power wise. But i have never heard the combo. Hope springs eternal.
Edited by bao01 - 9/13/13 at 5:14pm
post #14824 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Pulled the trigger on those shinny aesthetically pleasing Marlan Heads? biggrin.gif

I found a dealer willing to give a pretty good discount off MSRP. I am just one or two pay checks away - can't wait.
As for the Marlan, I have to admit, i am a sucker when it comes to good looks. smile.gif

I will post the unpacking pics. Hopefully i can get them out of box without breaking my back.
Stay tuned !!
post #14825 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

I found a dealer willing to give a pretty good discount off MSRP. I am just one or two pay checks away - can't wait.
As for the Marlan, I have to admit, i am a sucker when it comes to good looks. smile.gif

I will post the unpacking pics. Hopefully i can get them out of box without breaking my back.
Stay tuned !!

Two paychecks away? eek.gif

After you pay the mortgage and car payment and all that first? biggrin.gif

As far as unpacking, I thought the dealer was supposed to do that for you. It's an authorized dealer, right?

When I bought my 802D2, the dealer delivered them, unpacked them, and placed them exactly where I wanted.

Watch out for those fragile Diamond tweeters!
post #14826 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

Here is that thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1484551/will-parasound-halo-a-51-drive-b-w-802-diamonds

The consensus was that the Halo A 51 will have no trouble power wise. But i have never heard the combo. Hope springs eternal.

I am unequivocally confident that 400 WPC into 4 ohms will have utterly no problem powering the 802D2 or any speaker. Don't even lose 1 nanosecond of sleep over it. D
post #14827 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Two paychecks away? eek.gif

After you pay the mortgage and car payment and all that first? biggrin.gif

As far as unpacking, I thought the dealer was supposed to do that for you. It's an authorized dealer, right?

I really hate to think people living paycheck-to-paycheck would stretch themselves super thin to get speakers like this. I guess people do it with cars all the time. Get a car they really can't afford, but think they can. Personally I would want to gross 3x the MSRP of the car, so that shiny new M3, need to make around 180K / yr.
post #14828 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

I really hate to think people living paycheck-to-paycheck would stretch themselves super thin to get speakers like this. I guess people do it with cars all the time. Get a car they really can't afford, but think they can. Personally I would want to gross 3x the MSRP of the car, so that shiny new M3, need to make around 180K / yr.

What if they bought a used M3? biggrin.gif

Would it be 3X the used cost or 3X the new MSRP? smile.gif
post #14829 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

What if they bought a used M3? biggrin.gif

Would it be 3X the used cost or 3X the new MSRP? smile.gif

I was thinking the new MSRP. smile.gif Used would be okay, as long as the ongoing maintenance costs are doable.
post #14830 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

Here is that thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1484551/will-parasound-halo-a-51-drive-b-w-802-diamonds

The consensus was that the Halo A 51 will have no trouble power wise. But i have never heard the combo. Hope springs eternal.

One thing is what me and other people post in the forum and suggest... And the other is what your ears will tell you... I shared with you my experience.... As a matter of fact my B&W dealer without any measure thought that the 803s were under power by using a single terminal per speaker out of the A51 and he sent one of his technicians to biamp them. There is a white paper prepared by B&W mentioning why they consider bi-wiring at least and why it is better to biamp. At the end of the day is you who has to be happy with whatever decision you made...

In my case, i did solved the issues that I found this way... Now, for example, I noticed that the subwoofer doesn't blend as nice as it used to with my previous speakers.. I will be having demos in my home with a series of subwoofers until I found the right one for my setup... Good luck with your purchase....It is worth it...Enjoy the sound, that is what it matters most....
post #14831 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Two paychecks away? eek.gif
After you pay the mortgage and car payment and all that first? biggrin.gif

Yes - unfortunately, i have those too as well as 401K contributions. frown.gif
But i have been putting my spare pennies in the piggy for some time and now i just need to find the hammer smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

As far as unpacking, I thought the dealer was supposed to do that for you. It's an authorized dealer, right?
When I bought my 802D2, the dealer delivered them, unpacked them, and placed them exactly where I wanted.
Watch out for those fragile Diamond tweeters!

OK - here is story. They are definitely an up and up authorized dealer. Very well established in the area. They carry a huge line of products including Paradigm. Even though they are the closest authorized B&W dealer to me, they are still several hours away. So the person on phone explained it to me this way. Yes, i can give you a good deal. Yes, I can ship to your door. He said that in general, B&W frowns on dealers shipping 800 series to someone's house but since i was several hours away, they would be ok with him doing that.

Now for the white gloves. He said he does offer this service. His guys and his truck can go to a customers house and unpack and setup. BUT ... that is usually only for a 60 mi or so radius. Once it is further than that, he usually uses an outside freight company. Nothing to do with his store. He said that these guys would not know anything about speakers or HT. Their only responsibility is to get them safely to my front door. But he suggested, and i agree, that i offer some remuneration (cash) to them and ask if they would be kind enough to bring up the stairs to second floor. But as far as unboxing, that would be on me. I guess i could ask him how much the white glove service would be for my location but it would probably not be a small amount. It's quite a drive.

I guess I may need to get some help for the unboxing.

I will not touch the tweeters. eek.gif
Edited by bao01 - 9/14/13 at 9:01am
post #14832 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalc3 View Post

One thing is what me and other people post in the forum and suggest... And the other is what your ears will tell you... I shared with you my experience.... As a matter of fact my B&W dealer without any measure thought that the 803s were under power by using a single terminal per speaker out of the A51 and he sent one of his technicians to biamp them. There is a white paper prepared by B&W mentioning why they consider bi-wiring at least and why it is better to biamp. At the end of the day is you who has to be happy with whatever decision you made...

In my case, i did solved the issues that I found this way... Now, for example, I noticed that the subwoofer doesn't blend as nice as it used to with my previous speakers.. I will be having demos in my home with a series of subwoofers until I found the right one for my setup... Good luck with your purchase....It is worth it...Enjoy the sound, that is what it matters most....

These will be my first high end speakers ever and my first B&W so i do appreciate any and all advice from folks much more knowledgeable about this stuff than myself. I will definitely read the white paper. Once i have finished the basic setup (room placement, toe-in, integration with subs, some REW graphs) then i will start doing some A/B tests with bi-amping etc.

Again, thanks for advice.
post #14833 of 17915
This has probably already been covered in this thread but Stereophile's Kal Rubinson just (Sep, 2013) did a review of 804 Diamond:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/bowers-amp-wilkins-804-diamond-loudspeaker

Conclusions
In general, I had become so accepting of the generous size and sound of the bigger, pricier speakers I've been using that I was surprised by how satisfying the 804 Diamonds were. I should not have been—for $7500/pair, one should expect superb performance across the board. B&W has trickled down their unique technologies to the entire 800 Diamond range, and the 804 Diamonds incorporate all the most important ones. In fact, with the 804 Diamonds replacing the 800 Diamonds for the front left and right channels—a third 800 Diamond remaining for the center channel, and 804Ses as surrounds—they gave up little in multichannel performance. And the 804 Diamonds sounded excellent as a stereo pair, leaving me in no rush to relegate them to surround duties. For the money, I don't feel you can do much better—different, maybe, but for making music, not better.

I think these would be good surrounds for me after i get the 802 D2 for FR, FL.
Edited by bao01 - 9/14/13 at 9:23am
post #14834 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

Yes - unfortunately, i have those too as well as 401K contributions. frown.gif
But i have been putting my spare pennies in the piggy for some time and now i just need to find the hammer smile.gif
OK - here is story. They are definitely an up and up authorized dealer. Very well established in the area. They carry a huge line of products including Paradigm. Even though they are the closest authorized B&W dealer to me, they are still several hours away. So the person on phone explained it to me this way. Yes, i can give you a good deal. Yes, I can ship to your door. He said that in general, B&W frowns on dealers shipping 800 series to someone's house but since i was several hours away, they would be ok with him doing that.

Now for the white gloves. He said he does offer this service. His guys and his truck can go to a customers house and unpack and setup. BUT ... that is usually only for a 60 mi or so radius. Once it is further than that, he usually uses an outside freight company. Nothing to do with his store. He said that these guys would not know anything about speakers or HT. Their only responsibility is to get them safely to my front door. But he suggested, and i agree, that i offer some remuneration (cash) to them and ask if they would be kind enough to bring up the stairs to second floor. But as far as unboxing, that would be on me. I guess i could ask him how much the white glove service would be for my location but it would probably not be a small amount. It's quite a drive.

I guess I may need to get some help for the unboxing.

I will not touch the tweeters. eek.gif

Unboxing is fairly easy. Moving the speakers in the box is the hard part. If you can get the speakers into your room then all you do is strip away the box material and the speakers come right out.

B.
post #14835 of 17915
Hey folks, I have a quick question, I'm about to go buy a pair of M-1's for surround purposes with my 684s and htm62. I know they are not from the same line of speaker. Will they still sound sonically ok for music in multi channel stereo or movies in 5.0 (lack a sub due to my apartment).

Thank you for everyone's assistance!
post #14836 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

These will be my first high end speakers ever and my first B&W so i do appreciate any and all advice from folks much more knowledgeable about this stuff than myself. I will definitely read the white paper. Once i have finished the basic setup (room placement, toe-in, integration with subs, some REW graphs) then i will start doing some A/B tests with bi-amping etc.Again, thanks for advice.

Congratulations, forget bi-amping, get the best mono block you can afford and enjoy! The CA-M600 was made for the 800Diamond
post #14837 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by sublimerocks86 View Post

Hey folks, I have a quick question, I'm about to go buy a pair of M-1's for surround purposes with my 684s and htm62. I know they are not from the same line of speaker. Will they still sound sonically ok for music in multi channel stereo or movies in 5.0 (lack a sub due to my apartment).

Thank you for everyone's assistance!

686s are a better match for $20 less per pair, but if size is the issue then the M1 is as good as anything as far as matching goes.

B.
post #14838 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

This has probably already been covered in this thread but Stereophile's Kal Rubinson just (Sep, 2013) did a review of 804 Diamond:


I think these would be good surrounds for me after i get the 802 D2 for FR, FL.

If the money it's not a problem of course they will sound perfectly with your 802D but I think that the 805di will fit good too! for movies I think that this kind of money in highend surround speaker is a waste, with SACD and multichanel music you could get a better juice of them.
post #14839 of 17915
For those of you single wiring your diamonds, do you plug the cable from the amp into the bass or treble speaker connections? To me, logically I would want to plug into the treble and then jump into the bass.

Thanks for your feedback.
post #14840 of 17915
Don't know that it matters but I would think to go to the woofer since it takes the most power
post #14841 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

Don't know that it matters but I would think to go to the woofer since it takes the most power

you are probably right that it doesn’t matter, but I was thinking go to tweeter first because you get the best direct signal here and if the jumpers do create any sort of distortion it would be harder to hear in the bass frequencies.

I wonder if anyone has experimented or if B&W has an "official" stance.
post #14842 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post

you are probably right that it doesn’t matter, but I was thinking go to tweeter first because you get the best direct signal here and if the jumpers do create any sort of distortion it would be harder to hear in the bass frequencies.

I wonder if anyone has experimented or if B&W has an "official" stance.

The 4. Connecting diagram in the 800-802 Diamond manual has the wires from the amplifier plugged into the MF/HF connection and from there with a jumper to the LF connection.
post #14843 of 17915
Yup the owners manual has the post connection that they recommend.... but then again.... there is the bi amp thing....

bowers recommends it.... others say it is a waste of time and watts for a little db boost....

or there is the if your amp is big enough thing that says if your amp is large in reserves and watts no bi amp required.... more for tube amps and smaller amps....

then there is bi wire...
bi amp vertically....

then the whole what is the speaker wire made of and who makes them....

good luck getting it all straight.

Bill
post #14844 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post

For those of you single wiring your diamonds, do you plug the cable from the amp into the bass or treble speaker connections? To me, logically I would want to plug into the treble and then jump into the bass.

Thanks for your feedback.

I've tried both, Makes absolutely no difference unless you believe wires make a difference. biggrin.gif
post #14845 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post

For those of you single wiring your diamonds, do you plug the cable from the amp into the bass or treble speaker connections? To me, logically I would want to plug into the treble and then jump into the bass.

Thanks for your feedback.

I don't own diamonds but... I plug one into HF one into LF. That way should something come loose, such as the speaker wire or gold connector... the whole speaker cuts out and I get up and turn it off.
post #14846 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Congratulations, forget bi-amping, get the best mono block you can afford and enjoy! The CA-M600 was made for the 800Diamond

Thanks - 802 D2 purchase will occur in October. I will keep you guys posted.

As for amplification, any upgrade of my Parasound Halo A 51 will have to wait a bit.

My current spending plan is:

FL and FR: 802 D2
Center: HTM2
Surrounds: 804 D2
For rears i was going to use my very old 1988 (but still good) Paradigms.
Some kind of upgrade for my CD/mp3 player. Probably Oppo.
Salamander rack.

But now you have got me interested in monoblocks - will the spending never end frown.gif

Here are some interesting Stereophile quotes.

Classe CA-M600, $14,000/pair
March, 2011
"They are the best-sounding amplifiers I have auditioned in my system," said JA.
"The Classé CA-M600 and CT-M600 offer superb measured performance. It doesn't get any better than this."

Parasound Halo JC-1, $9000/pair
Feb, 2003 - quite old i have to say
A favorite of JA's, who was equally impressed by how the JC 1 performed on the test bench: "This is excellent measured performance. The Halo JC 1 is not only the best amplifier to come from Parasound, it ranks up there with the best high-end heavyweights,"
"The Parasound JC 1 is one of the finest high-powered solid-state amps I've heard," said ST.
post #14847 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

Unboxing is fairly easy. Moving the speakers in the box is the hard part. If you can get the speakers into your room then all you do is strip away the box material and the speakers come right out.

B.

Cool - this puts my mind at ease. I will get the delivery guys to bring them upstairs.
post #14848 of 17915
Quote:
Originally Posted by leo2498 View Post

If the money it's not a problem of course they will sound perfectly with your 802D but I think that the 805di will fit good too! for movies I think that this kind of money in highend surround speaker is a waste, with SACD and multichanel music you could get a better juice of them.

Just want to make sure i understand what you are saying. Are you stating that if i listen to multi ch music, the 804 D2 would be worthwhile but if i only watch movies, 805 D2 would be sufficient for the surrounds?

I thought 804 D2 may be better because it has the same 6" kevlar FST driver as 802 and it has same Rohacell woofers (but smaller than 802).
The 805 D2 has different size (6.5") Kevlar driver and no FST surround. Also, no Rohacell woofers.

For the rears, i'm not sure i should spend a lot of money because this is sound firing at the back of your head/ears so how good do they need to be even if you do listen to multi-ch music.
At least the surrounds fire into your ears.
post #14849 of 17915
So yesterday it was really nice weather for the first time in months down here in the deep south. Cool , dry, low humidity.
So i decided to make the LONG drive to dealer and brought some CDs and mp3s.
I got to listen to the 802 D2 for close to two hours, all by myself - no one else in the room.
It was all pretty expensive Classe stuff - monoblocks i think. He connected my laptop to a Classe processor using USB.

This was the first time in 15 years that i have listened to high end speakers.
I was VERY impressed. I am very familiar with the tracks but it was like i was hearing them for the first time.
Even though they were mp3s, it was spectacular.
Some tracks raised the hair on the back of my neck - almost brought me to tears. smile.gif

I really did not think they would sound that good.

I will pull trigger in a few weeks.
post #14850 of 17915
From my perspective there's a lot of info that comes from the surrounds. It depends on your goals for your system. The 804 and 805 are both excellent speakers and would do well matched with 802's. IMHO the 804D2 is a better match from a capability and size standpoint. Either way is good, but 804D2 is better all the way around. Is the 804D2 necessary to have a great system, no...but I promise the 804D2 will be a better match. As always the amp is critical. I bi-amp my surrounds with 400 watts going to them, is it that necessary? No but when the rear surrounds need the power it's there and the results are simply awesome!

There's a large group of members on this forum that don't think you need to spend much money on surrounds for a good system and I agree, however for a great system skimping wont get you there.

If you want to consider the 805's, I suggest you consider the PM1 too. I own a pair and the are not 805's, but for the $$ they are certainly a great speaker for smaller systems. The key to your decision will be what you plan to do for your subs? If you don't plan on a rear sub, the 804's will produce a lot more bass. Just trying to get the full picture discussed, because bass is very important for rear surrounds and you need a plan to address it.

See Ya,
Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by bao01 View Post

Just want to make sure i understand what you are saying. Are you stating that if i listen to multi ch music, the 804 D2 would be worthwhile but if i only watch movies, 805 D2 would be sufficient for the surrounds?

I thought 804 D2 may be better because it has the same 6" kevlar FST driver as 802 and it has same Rohacell woofers (but smaller than 802).
The 805 D2 has different size (6.5") Kevlar driver and no FST surround. Also, no Rohacell woofers.

For the rears, i'm not sure i should spend a lot of money because this is sound firing at the back of your head/ears so how good do they need to be even if you do listen to multi-ch music.
At least the surrounds fire into your ears.
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