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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 514

post #15391 of 17962
Has anyone done a side by side for sound between 804N and 703 speakers? Even better.... does anyone have them both in the same system? I was looking to add channels to my home theater. Instead of finding used 804N, was thinking about using the 703. Thanks

Bill
post #15392 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Building relations with dealers is always important, in the end they have to decide if and how they can make money of you over what time frame. We should not forget that we spend 'extra' money on these toys because none of us need $$ speakers but for them it might be part of paying their people end of the month.

The counter argument i guess is that some simple don't have very good people skills and misjudge people within seconds and loose a good start of a relationship and as a result loose thousands of dollars (or worse) in those seconds.

Daniel.

I lot of independent a/v dealers/integrators focus their business and attention on return clients. They see a lot of sales in the $2000-$5000 price range. They do very little one and done sales, just because it doesn't make sense for their business. They would much rather give a discount to someone whom they know will be back to either add to their system, or do projects in other rooms or other homes. The one-off clients they're usually happy letting Best Buy/MHT/MAV take care of. I'll leave the creative thinking on how to use that to you. smile.gif
post #15393 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

I lot of independent a/v dealers/integrators focus their business and attention on return clients. They see a lot of sales in the $2000-$5000 price range. They do very little one and done sales, just because it doesn't make sense for their business. They would much rather give a discount to someone whom they know will be back to either add to their system, or do projects in other rooms or other homes. The one-off clients they're usually happy letting Best Buy/MHT/MAV take care of. I'll leave the creative thinking on how to use that to you. smile.gif

I fully agree but that is also why i was always surprised by some dealers who seem to judge the book by its cover, seems a very dangerous thing for them todo. I guess the last few years removed many of these types from the dealer pool by natural selection. I remember many years ago a friend took me to his dealer since i wanted a new setup he clearly didn't get the hint i wanted to spent real money and blew me off with small talk then he got upset later with my friend when he told him how much i spent somewhere else. I think the end result was he lost 2 clients.

Daniel.
post #15394 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Golden View Post

Success! On the third try, I found a dealer that was willing to work with me. I will spare you the horror stories from some of the dealers I contacted.

I just want to point out that the dealer is under no obligation to drop their price on any of their products, just like you are under no obligation to buy from them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

I fully agree but that is also why i was always surprised by some dealers who seem to judge the book by its cover, seems a very dangerous thing for them todo. I guess the last few years removed many of these types from the dealer pool by natural selection. I remember many years ago a friend took me to his dealer since i wanted a new setup he clearly didn't get the hint i wanted to spent real money and blew me off with small talk then he got upset later with my friend when he told him how much i spent somewhere else. I think the end result was he lost 2 clients.

Daniel.
I agree overall. However, and not to sound like I am defending dealers but, there's also the flip side, people walking in pretending like they will spend big money. Unfortunately we all have a limited time to make a decision and sometimes we make a bad call...
post #15395 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Golden View Post

Success! On the third try, I found a dealer that was willing to work with me. I will spare you the horror stories from some of the dealers I contacted.

Oh, come on, don't hold back on us now. biggrin.gif
post #15396 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdemello View Post

Anyone?

SVS vs. B&W sub in the same price class?

Hmm, yeah, I'm going w/ SVS (or Rythmik, HSU, Funk, etc.) 100% of the time. biggrin.gif
post #15397 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

Has anyone done a side by side for sound between 804N and 703 speakers? Even better.... does anyone have them both in the same system? I was looking to add channels to my home theater. Instead of finding used 804N, was thinking about using the 703. Thanks

Bill

804N sounds better, 703 has slightly more (meaning quantity) of low bass output. If close in price, 804N definitely a better speaker.

B.
post #15398 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Oh, come on, don't hold back on us now. biggrin.gif

Okay, here's one...a dealer wanted me to pay an up charge of 3% for using a credit card. My problem was that the reason I was using a credit card was because the dealer didn't have the item in stock and they wanted 70% down. Call me old fashioned, but I'm not going to pay cash if I don't get to leave with the item; therefore, credit was (to me) the only option they provided and I didn't believe it was fair to charge me 3%.
post #15399 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldielox View Post

Okay, here's one...a dealer wanted me to pay an up charge of 3% for using a credit card. My problem was that the reason I was using a credit card was because the dealer didn't have the item in stock and they wanted 70% down. Call me old fashioned, but I'm not going to pay cash if I don't get to leave with the item; therefore, credit was (to me) the only option they provided and I didn't believe it was fair to charge me 3%.

Wow. That is egregious. The nerve of that dealer. eek.gif
post #15400 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Wow. That is egregious. The nerve of that dealer. eek.gif

Yeah, Goldielox, he wanted you to help offset the cost to him of swiping your credit card. Usually that's 3-5%.
post #15401 of 17962

Alright folks, here's the setup that I have in mind. Please feel free to make recommendations other than those that have been purchased. Dimensions of my living room is 19 x 11 ft and usage would be for 65% music and 35% movies/youtube.

 

1. 804D2 (purchased)

2. CM Centre (should I go for CMC2?)

3. CCM362 ceiling rear speakers 

4. ASW610 (thinking of changing this to SVS PB12 or SB12)

5. Marantz SR5008 (still unsure if I should go for SR7008, might be bi-amping SR5008 if I don't)

6. XLO HT wires


Edited by chrisdemello - 11/20/13 at 5:30pm
post #15402 of 17962
He
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

Yeah, Goldielox, he wanted you to help offset the cost to him of swiping your credit card. Usually that's 3-5%.
. He also wanted pre-payment, which introduced the credit card into the sale.
post #15403 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdemello View Post

Alright folks, here's the setup that I have in mind. Please feel free to make recommendations other than those that have been purchased. Dimensions of my living room is 19 x 11 ft and usage would be for 65% music and 35% movies/youtube.

1. 804D2 (purchased)
2. CM Centre (should I go for CMC2?)
3. CCM362 ceiling rear speakers 
4. ASW610 (thinking of changing this to SVS PB12 or SB12)
5. Marantz SR5008 (still unsure if I should go for SR7008, might be bi-amping SR5008 if I don't)
6. XLO HT wires

2. I would strongly recommend the HTM4.
post #15404 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post

2. I would strongly recommend the HTM4.

+1

My bro and I sat through two hours of demoing corresponding center speakers to match his CM5 speakers. He was pretty much set on the CMC2 until he heard the HTM4D. He left with a new set of 805D and matching HTM4Ds ans sold off his CM5s!
post #15405 of 17962
I am building/finishing a home theater room in my basement. You can click the link in my signature for more info.

I have loved the B&W sound since I first heard them at Best Buy. They had Energy, Martin Logan, KEF, and a few others, and I always came back to the B&W speakers.

I then spent about an hour with the 683 speakers at a local audio dealer. I brought a CD I've had forever that I listen to regularly (a recording of Mahler's Das Lied von Der Erde) - I just happened to have in the car wink.gif

The visit was impromptu, and I spent time listening to some of his music too. I thoroughly enjoyed my time with the 683. He didn't have any 684s for me to try at the time.

I don't really have the budget for the CM series, and am scared to even listen to them lest I drive myself into the poor house, so I am sticking with the 600 series for now as my consideration.

I have done much research/reading. I am going to put all the concerns & questions I have and see how the real owners answer them.

I will be auditioning other speakers but I suspect I may come back to B&W. So my questions are for the gurus on this thread about B&W.

First, a little information about my space/preferences:
  • Room is L shaped - 10.5' wide in front, 25.7' deep, and 14.3' wide in the back. Diagram below. 7.8' ceilings.
  • Room is about 2285 cubic feet total
  • Primary listening position will be ears at front and center, about 9.5' from screen, and 30" to 40" off the floor
  • Speakers will have to flank screen, so they will be within about 4-6" of the walls on the sides. I can bring them forward from the screen wall up to 3 feet
  • Screen bottom will be about 23" to 28" off the floor, center below the screen. I'll have about 9" above the screen, so I could put center up there but then it's pretty much right against the ceiling
  • Thick pile carpet on the floor, 1st reflection point acoustic treatments on the walls, finished drywall otherwise
  • I often listen to music/movies fairly quietly. I will crank it sometimes, but I am generally a quiet listener. I want good definition at low volumes
  • For the sake of argument, let's say I'm going to get a Marantz 6008 receiver.
  • About 60% movies, 40% music. Classical, some Jazz, Alternative 80s/90s, big band, lots of different stuff. For movies all genres too. Dramas with lots of dialogue to action movies that shake your guts.
  • I want to do a 7.1 setup
  • I am new to audiophile and theater land. So I don't have to be impressed, everything sounds good which is why this is hard for me. I still have a 27" tube TV and 20 year old Kenwood all in one with 10" tall three way speakers.

Okay, now my questions.

1- Which size floor speaker - the 684 or the 683 - is better sized for this space? The brochure says small to medium to large rooms. But I don't really know what that even means. I wish they'd define the general ranges in cu. ft. I want a floorstander but am not married to the idea.

2- I'm willing to get either one moneywise (683 or 684) - I just want the better choice for my room. Should I get the 684 or 683 in your opinion? Or the 685s with stands?

3- I have heard people say that they don't like the HTM61/62 center channels. That they aren't as clear as they want. Is this really true? I have heard reviews on $200 centers that say they are clear. I'm not going to have trouble understanding dialogue from either of these am I really? That would be an epic fail for B&W if they were as bad as some seem to say out there.

4- That said about the center - should I get the HTM61 or the HTM62? I'm willing to afford either.

5- Some said I just need to get the CM Centre 2. I can't afford it. But if I'd go from being "meh" about my setup to being "awesome!" I might consider it. Would it timbre match the 600 series for panning, etc?

6- As you can see, my room is narrow. I can't put 685s as side surrounds, some listeners would nearly be looking at the sides of them Would the DS-3 be a good choice? I shy away from these because in dipole mode the specs look crappy - 10 kHz upper end? I don't want to spend $450 for a dipole only to have the tweeter be off all the time. That's weird to me. And how would the dipoles work with two rows of seats anyway? 685s in the rear would be fine

7- Frankly, I'm thinking of getting another brand for surrounds unless someone talks me out of it, something with a real bipole setup that goes full range. Any recommendations that will voice okay with B&W in the front? I'd rather put my money into front speakers and spend a little less on surrounds.

8- Many people suggest other brands for subwoofer. I'm fine with that. Any subs that people feel size well with a 683/684 that aren't B&W? Should I go B&W for the sub?

Okay, those are my questions. May the collective years of experience of those frequenting this thread wash over me in all their glory!! Thanks!

post #15406 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post

2. I would strongly recommend the HTM4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scanido View Post

+1

My bro and I sat through two hours of demoing corresponding center speakers to match his CM5 speakers. He was pretty much set on the CMC2 until he heard the HTM4D. He left with a new set of 805D and matching HTM4Ds ans sold off his CM5s!

Htm4 is around us$3,500 here and is beyond my budget for the time being. It looks fantastic though. How about the other components?
post #15407 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdemello View Post

Alright folks, here's the setup that I have in mind. Please feel free to make recommendations other than those that have been purchased. Dimensions of my living room is 19 x 11 ft and usage would be for 65% music and 35% movies/youtube.

1. 804D2 (purchased)
2. CM Centre (should I go for CMC2?)
3. CCM362 ceiling rear speakers 
4. ASW610 (thinking of changing this to SVS PB12 or SB12)
5. Marantz SR5008 (still unsure if I should go for SR7008, might be bi-amping SR5008 if I don't)
6. XLO HT wires

How much money do I have to play with?

B.
post #15408 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielrg View Post

I

1- Which size floor speaker - the 684 or the 683 - is better sized for this space? The brochure says small to medium to large rooms. But I don't really know what that even means. I wish they'd define the general ranges in cu. ft. I want a floorstander but am not married to the idea.

2- I'm willing to get either one moneywise (683 or 684) - I just want the better choice for my room. Should I get the 684 or 683 in your opinion? Or the 685s with stands?

3- I have heard people say that they don't like the HTM61/62 center channels. That they aren't as clear as they want. Is this really true? I have heard reviews on $200 centers that say they are clear. I'm not going to have trouble understanding dialogue from either of these am I really? That would be an epic fail for B&W if they were as bad as some seem to say out there.

4- That said about the center - should I get the HTM61 or the HTM62? I'm willing to afford either.

5- Some said I just need to get the CM Centre 2. I can't afford it. But if I'd go from being "meh" about my setup to being "awesome!" I might consider it. Would it timbre match the 600 series for panning, etc?

]

Get 683 and htm61.

B.
post #15409 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

How much money do I have to play with?

B.

I got a good deal for the 804 at us$6000. The rest is more or less list price. In total perhaps I could spare 6-8k more. Bearing in mind this is my first audio/ht setup but after hearing 804 I can't seem to listen to anything else. Damn those showrooms tongue.gif
post #15410 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdemello View Post

Alright folks, here's the setup that I have in mind. Please feel free to make recommendations other than those that have been purchased. Dimensions of my living room is 19 x 11 ft and usage would be for 65% music and 35% movies/youtube.

1. 804D2 (purchased)
2. CM Centre (should I go for CMC2?)
3. CCM362 ceiling rear speakers 
4. ASW610 (thinking of changing this to SVS PB12 or SB12)
5. Marantz SR5008 (still unsure if I should go for SR7008, might be bi-amping SR5008 if I don't)
6. XLO HT wires

HTM4 $2500
Sides & Surrounds $1500
Sub $1500
SR7008 $2000
Cables $500

Total $8000
post #15411 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post


HTM4 $2500
Sides & Surrounds $1500
Sub $1500
SR7008 $2000
Cables $500

Total $8000

 

The HTM4 costs almost US$3,600 over here so I may rule that out. The others are about right and am waiting for a shipping quotation from SVS for either PB12 or SB12.

 

Is Marantz SR7008 a good choice for this setup?

post #15412 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdemello View Post

Alright folks, here's the setup that I have in mind. Please feel free to make recommendations other than those that have been purchased. Dimensions of my living room is 19 x 11 ft and usage would be for 65% music and 35% movies/youtube.

1. 804D2 (purchased)
2. CM Centre (should I go for CMC2?)
3. CCM362 ceiling rear speakers 
4. ASW610 (thinking of changing this to SVS PB12 or SB12)
5. Marantz SR5008 (still unsure if I should go for SR7008, might be bi-amping SR5008 if I don't)
6. XLO HT wires

I use the 804D and HTM 4 with my Denon 4520. But I use a stereo amp the Musical Fidelity A 5.5 in HT bypass for the Left and Right speakers. You should feed the 804D with a solid amp if you enjoy listening to music.. you can see my setup in my signature.
Cheers
post #15413 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post

I just want to point out that the dealer is under no obligation to drop their price on any of their products, just like you are under no obligation to buy from them...
I agree overall. However, and not to sound like I am defending dealers but, there's also the flip side, people walking in pretending like they will spend big money. Unfortunately we all have a limited time to make a decision and sometimes we make a bad call...

I agree thats why i also started out commenting that we need to understand in what 'state' some of the dealers are it can't be easy at times. Fact is we can't talk about 'dealers' or 'clients' in the end we are not that label but real people. I am always very open to dealers, they get a good feeling about what i want over time, how much research i have done myself and how loyal i am when things work out. Its in this open relation building you will find that dealers will return the favour and 'give' away part of their margins since they know how much work and followup is needed. I will never go for the cheapest option but for the best option for both sides but not going for the cheapest option does mean i expect fairness and support in return when needed.

The best end result is you end up with a new friend and visits to stores end up talking about other things and sharing passions while checking out new stuff smile.gif

Daniel.
post #15414 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post


I use the 804D and HTM 4 with my Denon 4520. But I use a stereo amp the Musical Fidelity A 5.5 in HT bypass for the Left and Right speakers. You should feed the 804D with a solid amp if you enjoy listening to music.. you can see my setup in my signature.
Cheers

Thanks Pete. Do you find CMC2 is sufficient enough compared to HTM4? My usage is more towards music so I dont mind spending a bit more on Marantz SR7008 instead. I have not reached the level of Denon 4520 yet.

post #15415 of 17962
As a processor, the SR 7008 should do fine. You can start out with that, then branch out to add a proper stereo amp. I belong to the school where I believe amps matter. I would avoid Emotivas with the 804D... they are muscle amps, but you should consider something much better to get the best out of the 804D.

I would also spring for a HTM 4, you won't regret it. I am using the old HTMs to save some $$..
post #15416 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdemello View Post

Alright folks, here's the setup that I have in mind. Please feel free to make recommendations other than those that have been purchased. Dimensions of my living room is 19 x 11 ft and usage would be for 65% music and 35% movies/youtube.

1. 804D2 (purchased)
2. CM Centre (should I go for CMC2?)
3. CCM362 ceiling rear speakers 
4. ASW610 (thinking of changing this to SVS PB12 or SB12)
5. Marantz SR5008 (still unsure if I should go for SR7008, might be bi-amping SR5008 if I don't)
6. XLO HT wires

2. Why not the HTM2 Diamond center? It matches your 804D2?
3. Why ceiling rears?
4. The SVS PB12 or SB12 would best the B&W sub. I'd also recommend either Hsu's VTF-2 Mk4 or VTF-1 Mk 2 subs. They're ported like the PB12, but tunable, using multiple ports and port plugs. This lets you tune the output for movies, or for music, as your listening habits evolve.
5. I am biased towards the SR5008. Absolutely love it! The only reason I'd recommend going for the 7008 would be for the better implementation of Audyssey.
6. Monoprice cables and interconnects, FTW. Your wallet will thank you later.
post #15417 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post


2. Why not the HTM2 Diamond center? It matches your 804D2?
3. Why ceiling rears?
4. The SVS PB12 or SB12 would best the B&W sub. I'd also recommend either Hsu's VTF-2 Mk4 or VTF-1 Mk 2 subs. They're ported like the PB12, but tunable, using multiple ports and port plugs. This lets you tune the output for movies, or for music, as your listening habits evolve.
5. I am biased towards the SR5008. Absolutely love it! The only reason I'd recommend going for the 7008 would be for the better implementation of Audyssey.
6. Monoprice cables and interconnects, FTW. Your wallet will thank you later.

2. I've to literally eat grass in order to afford a new HTM2. Might be hunting for a used set if available.

3. Mostly due to space constraints as I intend to have my setup in an apartment living room.

4. Well noted. I am quite sold on either PB12 or SB12. Just checking for shipping info from SVS. 

5. Initially I was going for SR5008 but changed my mind due to Audyssey XT32. 

6. A bit late for that, just purchased XLO cables.

post #15418 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdemello View Post

2. I've to literally eat grass in order to afford a new HTM2. Might be hunting for a used set if available.
3. Mostly due to space constraints as I intend to have my setup in an apartment living room.
4. Well noted. I am quite sold on either PB12 or SB12. Just checking for shipping info from SVS. 
5. Initially I was going for SR5008 but changed my mind due to Audyssey XT32. 
6. A bit late for that, just purchased XLO cables.

Check out audiogon.com for deals on used A/V gear, including premium loudspeakers.

You might be better served in your apartment to do the front stage properly (804 Diamond mains and the matching center HTM2) and adding the PB12. Pass on any sort of rears so you don't have to compromise. Then later, if/ when you move, you've not painted yourself into a corner.

You've got a rare landlord who will let you cut into the ceiling to install and run speaker wires. smile.gif
post #15419 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdemello View Post

2. I've to literally eat grass in order to afford a new HTM2. Might be hunting for a used set if available.
3. Mostly due to space constraints as I intend to have my setup in an apartment living room.
4. Well noted. I am quite sold on either PB12 or SB12. Just checking for shipping info from SVS. 
5. Initially I was going for SR5008 but changed my mind due to Audyssey XT32. 
6. A bit late for that, just purchased XLO cables.

I agree with the others that make sure you get the center you want, its such a important speaker in a ht.

Just to help you in the 'lust' factor here is nice shot of my htm2 looking back from the tweeter smile.gif

post #15420 of 17962
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post


Check out audiogon.com for deals on used A/V gear, including premium loudspeakers.

You might be better served in your apartment to do the front stage properly (804 Diamond mains and the matching center HTM2) and adding the PB12. Pass on any sort of rears so you don't have to compromise. Then later, if/ when you move, you've not painted yourself into a corner.

You've got a rare landlord who will let you cut into the ceiling to install and run speaker wires. smile.gif

 

Just checked the web, no HTMs for sale at the moment. There's a few on ebay though. Do you recommend going for a 15-yr old Nautilus HTM2?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post


I agree with the others that make sure you get the center you want, its such a important speaker in a ht.

Just to help you in the 'lust' factor here is nice shot of my htm2 looking back from the tweeter smile.gif

 

Indeed, will consider a better center. Might have to swallow the bullet on HTM4 instead if my wallet can't stretch that far.

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