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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 530

post #15871 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

One thing I don't get about McIntosh amps (although I love their aesthetic) is that the power output does NOT increase with decreasing impedance.

So it's like 250W into 8 ohms, 250W into 4 ohms, 250W into 2 ohms, instead of 400-500W into 4 ohms and 600-700W into 2 ohms. It seems like a "handicap" to me. I don't get it.

I thought the main point of getting external amps is for higher power output, especially for 2-4 ohms?

Maybe McIntosh's philosophy is to manufacture amplifiers that deliver the listed power output irrespective of the impedance.
post #15872 of 17845
McIntosh uses an impedance-matching transformer similar to what tube amps use. At least they used to, I have not looked recently. They have certainly upped the ante for power with their new monoblocks...
post #15873 of 17845
Let's have some B&W discussion smile.gif

No dedicated home theater yet, but my living room has served as our media enjoying room in the past. Lots of music listening, lots of TV and the occasional movie. We are building a new home with a room carved out for a future HT, but this is a few years off. For the time being I need to set up my Living Room again for media enjoyment.

In our previous home I had a 5.1 setup with B&W 683's for front L & R, VM1 for center, with in ceiling CCM80 for surrounds and SVS SB-12 Sub. These are all driven by a Sherbourn 7-150 and PT-7030 Pre-Pro.

So the discussion I want to have is three fold:

1. I think I should upgrade my center channel, I will now have a piece of furniture to put it on whereas before it was over a fireplace with no mantle so I was forced into the VM1. Thoughts and recommendations on a new center to match the 683's or would you stick with the VM1?

2. 7.1 or 5.1? If 7.1, should I match with another pair of CCM80 (hard to find) or would CCM683's be OK?

3. Planning on building an infinite baffle sub with (2) 18's powered by a Behringer EP-4000? My room is rather large and open, 18x18 and opens up to a kitchen/breakfast area that is 21x13, 10' ceilings. The SB-12 was rather lacking in the last house and the WAF of multiple subs in the living room is non existent. Anyone running IB with B&W speakers?
post #15874 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepers1 View Post

Maybe McIntosh's philosophy is to manufacture amplifiers that deliver the listed power output irrespective of the impedance.

If it requires 125W into 8 ohms to power the speakers, and the speaker goes down to 2 ohms from 100Hz-500Hz, then it will require 500W into 2 ohms.

And if the McIntosh can only output 450W into 8ohms/4 ohms/2 ohms, then you're screwed.
post #15875 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

If it requires 125W into 8 ohms to power the speakers, and the speaker goes down to 2 ohms from 100Hz-500Hz, then it will require 500W into 2 ohms.

And if the McIntosh can only output 450W into 8ohms/4 ohms/2 ohms, then you're screwed.

Congratulations you know Ohm's law. As mentioned by DonH50, McIntosh uses impedance matching transformers. You feel screwed by this ? OK, move on ..... and let's continue with B&W.
post #15876 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepers1 View Post

Congratulations you know Ohm's law. As mentioned by DonH50, McIntosh uses impedance matching transformers. You feel screwed by this ? OK, move on ..... and let's continue with B&W.

I don't see "Moderator" by your name. So you can move on to whatever you want and congratulate whatever you want.
post #15877 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilteda4 View Post

Let's have some B&W discussion smile.gif

No dedicated home theater yet, but my living room has served as our media enjoying room in the past. Lots of music listening, lots of TV and the occasional movie. We are building a new home with a room carved out for a future HT, but this is a few years off. For the time being I need to set up my Living Room again for media enjoyment.

In our previous home I had a 5.1 setup with B&W 683's for front L & R, VM1 for center, with in ceiling CCM80 for surrounds and SVS SB-12 Sub. These are all driven by a Sherbourn 7-150 and PT-7030 Pre-Pro.

So the discussion I want to have is three fold:

1. I think I should upgrade my center channel, I will now have a piece of furniture to put it on whereas before it was over a fireplace with no mantle so I was forced into the VM1. Thoughts and recommendations on a new center to match the 683's or would you stick with the VM1?

2. 7.1 or 5.1? If 7.1, should I match with another pair of CCM80 (hard to find) or would CCM683's be OK?

3. Planning on building an infinite baffle sub with (2) 18's powered by a Behringer EP-4000? My room is rather large and open, 18x18 and opens up to a kitchen/breakfast area that is 21x13, 10' ceilings. The SB-12 was rather lacking in the last house and the WAF of multiple subs in the living room is non existent. Anyone running IB with B&W speakers?
683 towers are fine,but for the center channel htm61 for surrounds 685 bookshelves.
post #15878 of 17845
Hi Everyone,

I've recently bought a pair of CM10 and currently use them in my HT 4.1 setup (no center speaker yet) driven by the Denon 4311 receiver. I am very happy with the sound for the home theater use, but feel, that I could improve my music listening with a better amplification. So, I decided to get an integrated amplifier with HT bypass. Obviously, the choice is numerous and after a lot of reading I narrowed it down to these brand/models:
Hegel H300 - it got raving reviews, is rated 250 Wpc and has a built in DAC as an added bonus (which I need anyway). It is said to be very precise, clear and neutral sounding amplifier without any coloration, which in my view should suit the B&W speakers as they are quite warm and laid back sounding or am I completely wrong?
Musical Fidelity M6 500i - this one is 500 Wpc. Will it be too much for CM10 with their recommended amplifier power 30 - 300? Again, this model has been given very positive reviews and my understanding that MF goes well with B&W.
Luxman L-505u or L-507u. This is a very respected brand, and, although rated at just 100 and 110 Wpc, should be able to drive my CM10 with ease (again, this info is based on the reviews I read and can be completely wrong).

I know there are other good brands in this price range ($5K to $7K), but where I am based (Moscow, Russia) the choice is rather limited and for some reason, these 3 models are widely available and I could get them auditioned.
So, if anyone has an experience or opinion on the above models and how they will go with CM10, please, share your view. I am desperate for any advice you can give me.

Also, if you can recommend another brand/model in this price range, please do so.

Thanks in advance,
Aziz
post #15879 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

683 towers are fine,but for the center channel htm61 for surrounds 685 bookshelves.

I agree on the center, however, unfortunately speakers lose to the wife and all surrounds will be in ceiling. Therefore, need to try and find another pair of CCM80's or move them outside to the covered patio and buy 4 CCM683's for the surrounds. Or just stick to 5.1. Never had 7.1 so not sure if I really am missing that much...
post #15880 of 17845
Hello Gents,

I'm putting together the HT for my new house and would like some recommendations for the center channel to match:

Fronts - 684
Rears - 602 S2
Sub - ASW610

A/V - Onkyo 818

I really like the idea of getting one 685 bookshelf for the center to better match the 684s. This isn't easy though as they seem to sell in pairs only (I'm in Australia, not sure if this is consistent world wide).

Has anyone had the opportunity to test the likes of HTM61 / HTM62 V 685 or older 600 series bookshelf speakers as center channel?

Cheers...
Edited by -MARTY54- - 1/6/14 at 8:20pm
post #15881 of 17845

Hello all,

 

I am looking for some advice on upgrading my Denon AV1910 to something a bit newer?

 

I am running B&W CM8's for my fronts, B&W Center and B&W CM5's for my rears. I have read mixed reviews about selecting amps and about being careful with B&W's as they are fussy to which amps they are paired with?

 

I was contemplating the Marantz 7008, would love to hear your thoughts?

 

Many thanks

 

Ben

post #15882 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benvir Padda View Post

Hello all,

I am looking for some advice on upgrading my Denon AV1910 to something a bit newer?

I am running B&W CM8's for my fronts, B&W Center and B&W CM5's for my rears. I have read mixed reviews about selecting amps and about being careful with B&W's as they are fussy to which amps they are paired with?

I was contemplating the Marantz 7008, would love to hear your thoughts?

Many thanks

Ben
that's a good receiver was
post #15883 of 17845
Disregard was
post #15884 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by -MARTY54- View Post

Hello Gents,

I'm putting together the HT for my new house and would like some recommendations for the center channel to match:

Fronts - 684
Rears - 602 S2
Sub - ASW610

A/V - Onkyo 818

I really like the idea of getting one 685 bookshelf for the center to better match the 684s. This isn't easy though as they seem to sell in pairs only (I'm in Australia, not sure if this is consistent world wide).

Has anyone had the opportunity to test the likes of HTM61 / HTM62 V 685 or older 600 series bookshelf speakers as center channel?

Cheers...
htm61is fine
post #15885 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by -MARTY54- View Post

Hello Gents,

I'm putting together the HT for my new house and would like some recommendations for the center channel to match:

Fronts - 684
Rears - 602 S2
Sub - ASW610

A/V - Onkyo 818

I really like the idea of getting one 685 bookshelf for the center to better match the 684s. This isn't easy though as they seem to sell in pairs only (I'm in Australia, not sure if this is consistent world wide).

Has anyone had the opportunity to test the likes of HTM61 / HTM62 V 685 or older 600 series bookshelf speakers as center channel?

Cheers...

Can you buy only one 685? Even if you have to buy a pair they cost about the same as the HTM61.
The HTM61 has not received good reviews. IMO it is not worthy of the B&W logo (being nice here).
Go for a 685 if you have room for it.
post #15886 of 17845
That's what I was thinking. I do have room (low line entertainment unit with projector screen).

A real shame you can't buy the 685 individually... Now, what to do with 1 spare 685. Hmmmm..

Cheers.
post #15887 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by abedirov View Post

Hi Everyone,

I've recently bought a pair of CM10 and currently use them in my HT 4.1 setup (no center speaker yet) driven by the Denon 4311 receiver. I am very happy with the sound for the home theater use, but feel, that I could improve my music listening with a better amplification. So, I decided to get an integrated amplifier with HT bypass. Obviously, the choice is numerous and after a lot of reading I narrowed it down to these brand/models:
Hegel H300 - it got raving reviews, is rated 250 Wpc and has a built in DAC as an added bonus (which I need anyway). It is said to be very precise, clear and neutral sounding amplifier without any coloration, which in my view should suit the B&W speakers as they are quite warm and laid back sounding or am I completely wrong?
Musical Fidelity M6 500i - this one is 500 Wpc. Will it be too much for CM10 with their recommended amplifier power 30 - 300? Again, this model has been given very positive reviews and my understanding that MF goes well with B&W.
Luxman L-505u or L-507u. This is a very respected brand, and, although rated at just 100 and 110 Wpc, should be able to drive my CM10 with ease (again, this info is based on the reviews I read and can be completely wrong).

I know there are other good brands in this price range ($5K to $7K), but where I am based (Moscow, Russia) the choice is rather limited and for some reason, these 3 models are widely available and I could get them auditioned.
So, if anyone has an experience or opinion on the above models and how they will go with CM10, please, share your view. I am desperate for any advice you can give me.

Also, if you can recommend another brand/model in this price range, please do so.

Thanks in advance,
Aziz
Anyone? Not even a single relply? I have just read a long thread about bi-amping CM10. Several posters stated that there is absolutely no difference in sound between an av receiver and a dedicated stereo amplifier if you listen below peak levels. Maybe I should just stick with my Denon receiver?
post #15888 of 17845
That would be my approach and is my approach.
post #15889 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by abedirov View Post

Anyone? Not even a single relply? I have just read a long thread about bi-amping CM10. Several posters stated that there is absolutely no difference in sound between an av receiver and a dedicated stereo amplifier if you listen below peak levels. Maybe I should just stick with my Denon receiver?

Amplification questions tend to stir up debate about amplifier quality vs. price. My CM9's seem comfortable running off of my 5ch Rotel amp (125w x 5). If you're worried about the CM10's being power starved I would think a decent 200wpc amp would be more than adequate. However if your Denon seems happy driving them and you don't hear anything to lead you to believe that the speakers are being underdriven I doubt you will get much out of an amplifier upgrade.
post #15890 of 17845
I am not worried about my Denon not being powerfull enough to drive CM10. My concern is about the quality of the amplification. It is an old debate about all amplifiers sounding the same or all DACs sounding the same, which I do not believe it is true. I recently took part in an audition with my friend and we listened to Denon receiver with CM8 and then some System Audio speakers. Then we switched to Cambridge Audio receiver and then to some tube stereo amplifier. The Cambridge Audio receiver sounded better then Denon one and the tube amplifier sounded much better than Denon or Cambridge Audio.
post #15891 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by abedirov View Post

Anyone? Not even a single relply? I have just read a long thread about bi-amping CM10. Several posters stated that there is absolutely no difference in sound between an av receiver and a dedicated stereo amplifier if you listen below peak levels. Maybe I should just stick with my Denon receiver?
Question one whatelse are you using besides CM10 two get a center channel and 4311 is good enough.
post #15892 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by abedirov View Post

I am not worried about my Denon not being powerfull enough to drive CM10. My concern is about the quality of the amplification. It is an old debate about all amplifiers sounding the same or all DACs sounding the same, which I do not believe it is true. I recently took part in an audition with my friend and we listened to Denon receiver with CM8 and then some System Audio speakers. Then we switched to Cambridge Audio receiver and then to some tube stereo amplifier. The Cambridge Audio receiver sounded better then Denon one and the tube amplifier sounded much better than Denon or Cambridge Audio.

If your not worried about underdriving the speakers a high end Denon receiver will probably be just fine.
post #15893 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

Question one whatelse are you using besides CM10 two get a center channel and 4311 is good enough.
No center speaker yet, will get one in the near future. My concern now is music which I listen to in pure direct mode.
post #15894 of 17845
Has anyone tried using 2 bookshelf speakers (in my case 2 x 685) for the center channel? As I've mentioned before, placement isn't an issue for me as they're sitting under a projector screen.

I've just spoken to my local B&W HIFI retailer who says they've done this with great results. He also mentioned that the HTM61/2 as center channels aren't great (only when I quizzed him about it). This seems to be a universal opinion.

He said I should be able to just wire both speakers into my receiver's center input (Onkyo 818). Possible?

Cheers.
post #15895 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by -MARTY54- View Post

Has anyone tried using 2 bookshelf speakers (in my case 2 x 685) for the center channel? As I've mentioned before, placement isn't an issue for me as they're sitting under a projector screen.

I've just spoken to my local B&W HIFI retailer who says they've done this with great results. He also mentioned that the HTM61/2 as center channels aren't great (only when I quizzed him about it). This seems to be a universal opinion.

He said I should be able to just wire both speakers into my receiver's center input (Onkyo 818). Possible?

Cheers.
just one of them
post #15896 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by -MARTY54- View Post

Has anyone tried using 2 bookshelf speakers (in my case 2 x 685) for the center channel? As I've mentioned before, placement isn't an issue for me as they're sitting under a projector screen.

I've just spoken to my local B&W HIFI retailer who says they've done this with great results. He also mentioned that the HTM61/2 as center channels aren't great (only when I quizzed him about it). This seems to be a universal opinion.

He said I should be able to just wire both speakers into my receiver's center input (Onkyo 818). Possible?

Cheers.

Not a good idea. Phase cancelation with side by side centers.
Reply
Reply
post #15897 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by abedirov View Post

I am not worried about my Denon not being powerfull enough to drive CM10. My concern is about the quality of the amplification. It is an old debate about all amplifiers sounding the same or all DACs sounding the same, which I do not believe it is true. I recently took part in an audition with my friend and we listened to Denon receiver with CM8 and then some System Audio speakers. Then we switched to Cambridge Audio receiver and then to some tube stereo amplifier. The Cambridge Audio receiver sounded better then Denon one and the tube amplifier sounded much better than Denon or Cambridge Audio.

I Think that a better option will be change topology of amplification, a class AB is a better option and cheaper so if you could try something like Rotel RB1582 maybe you will get what you are looking, I have it and the sound is wonderfull with my 804di and 804S.
post #15898 of 17845
Considering not to get the HTM4 first for the center speaker. Will it sound weird for movies? Not that I watch often anyway. Perhaps once or twice a week.
post #15899 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdemello View Post

Considering not to get the HTM4 first for the center speaker. Will it sound weird for movies? Not that I watch often anyway. Perhaps once or twice a week.

Waiting to get a center in order to get a better one is not a bad idea, The biggest downside is when multiple people are in the room. Just when you listen to music the person in the middle will have a good time but the more you move to the sides there will be problems keeping central action like voices locked in the middle.

I upgraded my 3 fronts in one go but if i would have limited funds i would also consider doing it in steps and not using it for a while. Do keep in mind the system will become much stronger once you have it and get more uummpff since upto 60% of all sounds in surround movies is produced by the center and that will now get rerouted to the fronts. And if you are considering a bigger center that means big drivers that can move air.

Daniel.
post #15900 of 17845
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by -MARTY54- View Post

Has anyone tried using 2 bookshelf speakers (in my case 2 x 685) for the center channel? As I've mentioned before, placement isn't an issue for me as they're sitting under a projector screen.

I've just spoken to my local B&W HIFI retailer who says they've done this with great results. He also mentioned that the HTM61/2 as center channels aren't great (only when I quizzed him about it). This seems to be a universal opinion.

He said I should be able to just wire both speakers into my receiver's center input (Onkyo 818). Possible?

Cheers.

Not a good idea. Phase cancelation with side by side centers.

One an always use one 685, and use second from pair as surround back.
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