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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 538

post #16111 of 17856
I know some may disagree but it may need some breakin time. My previous center when new was a disappointment but really came in where my current center seemed good out of the box. Guessing the CMC2 might need some run in time. What are you driving it with and how is it placed?
post #16112 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I know some may disagree but it may need some breakin time. My previous center when new was a disappointment but really came in where my current center seemed good out of the box. Guessing the CMC2 might need some run in time. What are you driving it with and how is it placed?

I'm currently driving my CMC2 and CM9 with a Marantz SR4500 which has 80 watts per channel.

The speaker is also 9.8 inches/ 25 cm off the wall if that matters. 

post #16113 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by X1XNobleX1X View Post

Hello Guys, 
Recently I purchased a new CMC2 to match with my CM9's.
The speaker is not as good as I was expecting comparing to my old $300 center speaker. 
I do hear the different though some dialog is muffled, I was hopping it would be very clear, as per peoples reviews. 
What should I be expecting?

I bought my CMC2 used, so consequently I didn't have a break-in period. It sounded dramatically better right off the bat compared to the CMC that it replaced that I had bought new a few years ago. The difference was HUGE between the 2 speakers, with no dialog being muffled at any time, so I am not sure why your improvement is not equally impressive.
post #16114 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by X1XNobleX1X View Post

Hello Guys, 
Recently I purchased a new CMC2 to match with my CM9's.
The speaker is not as good as I was expecting comparing to my old $300 center speaker. 
I do hear the different though some dialog is muffled, I was hopping it would be very clear, as per peoples reviews. 
What should I be expecting?

Did you take it completely out of the box?

Sorry, just kidding...

Are you certain the rear speaker jumpers are installed and tightly screwed down? It almost sounds like you are describing a loss of the higher frequencies, which can happens if the jumpers aren't installed correctly, and you happened to connect your leads to the lower (woofer) terminals.

You can also test if there's an issue with your speakers by taking the numbers off and connecting sequentially to the lower and then the upper terminals - you should get only bass tones in the first instances, mid and high frequencies only in the latter. Of course, make sure you power down your amp/receiver completely before making each wiring change.
Edited by thrang - 1/27/14 at 9:05pm
post #16115 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I know some may disagree but it may need some breakin time. My previous center when new was a disappointment but really came in where my current center seemed good out of the box. Guessing the CMC2 might need some run in time. What are you driving it with and how is it placed?
He needs better receiver with more power
post #16116 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

He needs better receiver with more power
You sure?
I'm thinking of purchasing the XPA-3 by Emoivia if that will help.
post #16117 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by X1XNobleX1X View Post

You sure?
I'm thinking of purchasing the XPA-3 by Emoivia if that will help.

I don't think a muffled sound, as you describe, is amplifier related. Did you get a chance to check and test as I posted above?

More/better power would be beneficial for other reasons.

To test that it's not you center channel signal path, you can also temporarily connect a known good channel (say left or right) speaker leads to the cmc2 - does the sound quality change?
post #16118 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I don't think a muffled soun, as you describe, is amplifier related. Did you get a chance to check and test as I posted above?
It isn't always muffled just sometimes.
I was just expecting something better comparing it to a speaker that came out in 2003.
I did test it. Sounds fine to me .
post #16119 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by X1XNobleX1X View Post

It isn't always muffled just sometimes.
I was just expecting something better comparing it to a speaker that came out in 2003.
I did test it. Sounds fine to me .

And you've re-run or disabled Audyssey?

Is the speaker in a cabinet?
post #16120 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

And you've re-run or disabled Audyssey?

Is the speaker in a cabinet?
This amp doesn't have Audyssey.
It's actually on top of a cabinet.
post #16121 of 17856
Sorry, mis-read as an SR 5004 receiver ( 3 am and can't sleep!)

What is the processor (settings, room correction), and if CMC2 is near-wall, are the port plugs in?
Edited by thrang - 1/28/14 at 3:13am
post #16122 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Sorry, mis-read as an SR 5004 receiver ( 3 am and can't sleep!)

What is the processor (settings, room correction), and if CMC2 is near-wall, are the port plugs in?

Iv balanced the center and front.
-5 for center and 0 for front
Panorama is on.
Center wide setting is on 7.

You think I need the port plugs if it's 9.8 inches off the wall?
If so should I use he outer plug or both?
post #16123 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by X1XNobleX1X View Post

Iv balanced the center and front.
-5 for center and 0 for front
Panorama is on.
Center wide setting Is on 7


You think I need the port plugs if it's 9.8 inches off the wall?
If so should I use he outer plug or both?
Woops...
post #16124 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by X1XNobleX1X View Post

Iv balanced the center and front.
-5 for center and 0 for front
Panorama is on.
Center wide setting is on 7.

You think I need the port plugs if it's 9.8 inches off the wall?
If so should I use he outer plug or both?

Quote:
Originally Posted by X1XNobleX1X View Post

Woops...

The center is quite close to the wall, I'd probably plug completely...right now you are reinforcing bass response, likely detrimentally. If there's anyway to get the speaker a little further from the wall, that will help.

I don't know what you source material is, what modes you are using, what your processor you have, but depending upon what you're listening to, the panorama/center wide will impact center channel steering.

Turn all sound processing options off, or default them. Listen to true multi channel content (not stereo expanded), and just do a straight decode, no enhanced processing modes. If the system has Audyssey, run it. Minus 5 for a matching center speaker with the same amplification seems a little odd, though I don't know if the cmc2 is more efficient than the towers. That was set with a meter and internal processor test tones?
post #16125 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by X1XNobleX1X View Post

Iv balanced the center and front.
-5 for center and 0 for front
Panorama is on.
Center wide setting is on 7.

You think I need the port plugs if it's 9.8 inches off the wall?
If so should I use he outer plug or both?

-5 dB? The CMC2 is very close to the same sensitivity and response of the CM9's. Audyssey sets it the same as the front, but I have it actually running +.5dB compared to the CM9's as it seems to equalize it better.
post #16126 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post

-5 dB? The CMC2 is very close to the same sensitivity and response of the CM9's. Audyssey sets it the same as the front, but I have it actually running +.5dB compared to the CM9's as it seems to equalize it better.

Given these facts i would indeed test some of the things thrang as outlined including replacing one of the fronts with the center speaker and put it in that position to see if it sounds the same tonal and has the same output (-5dB sounds weird). I agree that something sounds off and weird you need to do some of these tests to exclude reasons. Now if in the end the position is indeed the problem i personally don't mind to boost the center up to about 3dB if needed.

Hope you resolve this soon don't give up on finding out what is happening you will need to invest some time. I would if it was me remove one of my fronts hook it up as if it was the left or right speaker in the same location as then left or right speaker so you get a good feeling the speaker is correctly matched (as they should) and if the location is not the problem.

Daniel.
post #16127 of 17856
Question for 802 owners. Do you run your 802's full range on eq with a sub or do you cross over at 40hz?
post #16128 of 17856
I cross over at 60 or 80... still haven't decided what I like better... I have a lot of subs now and starting over again
post #16129 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

I cross over at 60 or 80... still haven't decided what I like better... I have a lot of subs now and starting over again
Thanks, baranowski. The DB1 crossover is set at 40 but I've heard (and advice directly from B&W) said most people like 60-80 better. I haven't tried either but will do so in near future also.
post #16130 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvuuren View Post


Thanks, baranowski. The DB1 crossover is set at 40 but I've heard (and advice directly from B&W) said most people like 60-80 better. I haven't tried either but will do so in near future also.

Why not all the way up?  With a discrete LFE signal, you want the sub to reproduce up to 120Hz.  With managed-bass, the upper limit will be determined by the main channel X-over setting. 

post #16131 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Why not all the way up?  With a discrete LFE signal, you want the sub to reproduce up to 120Hz.  With managed-bass, the upper limit will be determined by the main channel X-over setting. 
I'll try it both ways. With the DB1 you can set it with whichever B&W speakers you use it with and it's with that setting it's set at 40. I thought that was a little low so I'll definitely try at different settings. Thanks for your input.
post #16132 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Given these facts i would indeed test some of the things thrang as outlined including replacing one of the fronts with the center speaker and put it in that position to see if it sounds the same tonal and has the same output (-5dB sounds weird). I agree that something sounds off and weird you need to do some of these tests to exclude reasons. Now if in the end the position is indeed the problem i personally don't mind to boost the center up to about 3dB if needed.

Hope you resolve this soon don't give up on finding out what is happening you will need to invest some time. I would if it was me remove one of my fronts hook it up as if it was the left or right speaker in the same location as then left or right speaker so you get a good feeling the speaker is correctly matched (as they should) and if the location is not the problem.

Daniel.

I believe you meant this for X1XNobleX1X . My CMC2 is functioning perfectly.
post #16133 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Why not all the way up?  With a discrete LFE signal, you want the sub to reproduce up to 120Hz.  With managed-bass, the upper limit will be determined by the main channel X-over setting. 

I would imagine that the placement and the use of the subwoofer would dictate all of that.

At frequencies above 80 the sub can be localized. So if the sub is anywhere but up front then you will be distracted from the front sound stage.

If we are talking about a stereo hookup for two channel then raising up the crossover might be beneficial because it takes more burden off the amp driving the lower frequencies of the front speakers and let's the amp in the sub take the strain. If you want to run full range front and boost the bass with a sub then running at a higher could help or hurt depending on your preferences.

If we are only talking lfe for movies and such. THX and dolby recommends all speakers no matter how big and bad be crossed over at 80. They do differ on placement of subs though.

I may not be 100% accurate on my statements but this is how I understand it to be.

Bill
post #16134 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post

(1)I would imagine that the placement and the use of the subwoofer would dictate all of that.

(2)At frequencies above 80 the sub can be localized. So if the sub is anywhere but up front then you will be distracted from the front sound stage.

(3)If we are talking about a stereo hookup for two channel then raising up the crossover might be beneficial because it takes more burden off the amp driving the lower frequencies of the front speakers and let's the amp in the sub take the strain. If you want to run full range front and boost the bass with a sub then running at a higher could help or hurt depending on your preferences.

(4)If we are only talking lfe for movies and such. THX and dolby recommends all speakers no matter how big and bad be crossed over at 80. They do differ on placement of subs though.
 

(1) That is possible but not usually, in my experience.

(2)  I really doubt that.  Remember that the 80Hz number is based on recognizing an isolated sub not in the context of an integrated system.

(3)  That analysis applies both to stereo and multichannel systems and a proper crossover should determine how high the sub goes.  FR+sub-boost is problematic, at best.

(4)  Crossover at 80Hz has nothing to do with setting the filter on the sub to bypass and the LFE filter to 120Hz.

post #16135 of 17856
I defer to your knowledge and experience WELL over mine.

As I understand it, if using a processor or receiver to control the crossover to the subwoofer... The lfe on the sub ( if so equipped, like our paradigm servo 15's) should be used as it bypasses the subs crossover.... or Turing the crossover to it highest Hz in order to avoid issues between the signal and the sub.

I am sorry if I was unclear.
post #16136 of 17856
Currently I am attempting to connect two more subs to my system. I am using the marantz at 8801 to control the 3 subs. It only uses two sub outs so it is a learning process. I did notice that when my one sub was near field and set at 100 Hz it's location in reference to the seat position was noticable. Once I changed the receiver's crossover point for the sub to 80 the ability to locate the sub was gone.

Again just my observation.

Bill
post #16137 of 17856
A question for the experts: if the bottom end of the frequency range for my Nautilus 804s is speced at 45 hz at +- 2 db, what would be it be at +- 3 db?
post #16138 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvuuren View Post

Question for 802 owners. Do you run your 802's full range on eq with a sub or do you cross over at 40hz?

I have been trying 80 and 40 with two JL Audio Fathom f113s.
I think i like 40 better but not certain.
I have been doing this testing with 2 ch music changed to 4.2 channel music using PL IIx. I seem to like this better than regular stereo.

My Integra DHC-80.3 pre-pro does dual bass management with Audyssey XT32.
I also used REW to place the two subs before running XT32 - that was a pain - they are heavy.
post #16139 of 17856
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvuuren View Post

Question for 802 owners. Do you run your 802's full range on eq with a sub or do you cross over at 40hz?

For movies, tv, gaming (i.e. PS3 and Xbox 360) and for most CD listening I run crossed over at 40Hz (both my 802's and 800's) and EQ engaged. For SACD, DVD-Audio and Blu-ray Audio I tend to run in analog bypass, so no EQ and all speakers running full range.
post #16140 of 17856
Oh and as for the sub setup I have stereo subs which are used for the bass management and I also have a dedicated LFE sub. So for multichannel music when I listen in analog bypass my LFE sub is still being used but the 2 stereo subs are not because there is no bass management being performed.
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