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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 542

post #16231 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by papashango61 View Post

silly question, but what does the "2" refer to in 805d2? is this the same model is the current 805?

Any thoughts on how this improves over the pm1s? I know its a bigger woofer...Will the 805 be able to handle all kinds of music, or will it have some limitations due to having just 1 main woofer vs floorstander? 

The 2 is meaningless in the 805. There was a previous 800d series, but it did not include a diamond version of the 805. D2 signifies the 800 diamond series vs the older 800 D series, but it is the first and only diamond 805.

Differences between the PM1 and the 805 are pretty large. First, and most marketable is the diamond tweeter, though the PM-1 has a newer tweeter technology than the other lines, and it is closer to the diamond than anything else B&W offers. Still, the 805 tweeter is better. The larger woofer is significant for many reasons. More extension, and capable of more output before it compresses are the most important. The 805 will go lower and louder. Finally, the crossover is improved quite a bit. One of the things that makes the PM-1 sound like it goes lower than it really does is a bass bump in the lower midbass. The PM-1 sounds very good, but it is not a flat speaker. The 805 does not really do the bass bump for fake extension. Basically, you are getting more resolution, more volume, and more extension.

As to all kinds of music, yes it can handle all kinds of music but there are some limitations without a subwoofer. If you look at the frequency chart I posted earlier in the thread, you will see it covers all but the lowest of the basses. Of course when you go to electronic music, you can go even lower, and sub basses can frequently hit 30Hz in published music. I would add a sub, but something like REL which is fast and musical would be my first choice (I use a REL R series). Moving up to a floorstander can give you more extension, but as you move up the range, you are only getting a little bit more extension for each step up. I would still recommend a sub with a floor stander. Of course if your room is larger, a floorstander is probably a must. The 805 can only move so much air.

A note on bass extension. The room plays a huge roll here, so specs only matter so much in an untreated room. Room treatments do not have to be ridiculously expensive and can make a more dramatic difference than say choosing an 803 over an 804.
post #16232 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post

There is a significant difference in sound between the 804 and the 805. If you can't hear it, then you should probably be looking to spend less money on speakers to begin with... eek.gif

Or perhaps it's just because you have not heard the 805D2 optimally integrated with a great subwoofer system and volume level matched both systems in the same room.

A difference in opinion does not mean a lesser hearing acuity. There are many variables to account for.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 2/4/14 at 8:22am
post #16233 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Or perhaps it's just because you have not heard the 805D2 optimally integrated with a great subwoofer system and volume level matched both systems in the same room.

A difference in opinion does not mean a lesser hearing acuity. There are many variables to account for.

I was referring to 2 channel audio only. You are correct - I have not compared any of these seriously against each other with a subwoofer...

And all I was saying is that if you cannot hear a difference (for whatever reason) then there is no point in spending more $ on a more expensive speakers. And this statement goes for just about anything in life, cars, pans whatever... If you don't find one to be better than the other no point in spending extra $ on it...
post #16234 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post


The D2 means the Diamond tweeter is the second generation. It has nothing to do with the speaker itself, just the generation of the diamond tweeter.

When the third diamond generation comes out, it will be the D3, forth generation will be D4, etc.

The original 805 bookshelf did not have a diamond tweeter.

So the only 805 available brand new today is the second generation diamond tweeter, hence 805D2.

Even if you have compared the PM1 vs. 805D2 and think they sound similar, you should never say so on forums. People will just laugh at you.

So, duh, of course, the 805D2 sounds unequivocally better than the PM1 in every way.

Never ask that question again. Ever. biggrin.gif


I cant tell if you are really saying the 805 is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the PM1, or are mocking people who are 805 elitists? Please clarify :rolleyes:

post #16235 of 17849

FWIW i just got a SVS sb-1000 sealed sub so i do have a subwoofer. It sounds pretty good to me but i dont know what great sounds like. I assumed the ported version, although it gets great reviews, is specifically for movies and would be too boomy for music. Any thoughts on moving up to the next higher sb model or going to the pb-1000?? I am a novice..

 

My room is no bigger than 20 x 14

post #16236 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post

I was referring to 2 channel audio only. You are correct - I have not compared any of these seriously against each other with a subwoofer...

And all I was saying is that if you cannot hear a difference (for whatever reason) then there is no point in spending more $ on a more expensive speakers. And this statement goes for just about anything in life, cars, pans whatever... If you don't find one to be better than the other no point in spending extra $ on it...

Gotcha. I agree. biggrin.gif

Yes, in 2.0, there will be substantial differences unequivocally.
post #16237 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by papashango61 View Post

FWIW i just got a SVS sb-1000 sealed sub so i do have a subwoofer. It sounds pretty good to me but i dont know what great sounds like. I assumed the ported version, although it gets great reviews, is specifically for movies and would be too boomy for music. Any thoughts on moving up to the next higher sb model or going to the pb-1000?? I am a novice..

My room is no bigger than 20 x 14

It's all about the end result - the design and final implementation of the subwoofer (or speaker) as a whole.

I would not get too caught up with driver material or size or ported vs. sealed.

An accurate well designed and implemented ported sub will sound every bit as musical and fabulous as a well designed and implemented sealed sub.

The key is the entire system as a whole. For example, It makes little sense to me to buy $500 subs and match them with $5,000 speakers and $5,000 amps. Just an example.
post #16238 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by papashango61 View Post


I cant tell if you are really saying the 805 is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the PM1, or are mocking people who are 805 elitists? Please clarify rolleyes.gif

I did use a smiley face. biggrin.gif

I mean you should take all opinions with a grain of salt. wink.gif
post #16239 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I did use a smiley face. biggrin.gif

I mean you should take all opinions with a grain of salt. wink.gif

So let's change this up, do you also feel there is little to no difference between the Revel Gem2, Studio2 and Salon2 accounting for the bass differences? Same question for say Kef and the 201/2, 203/2, 205/2 and 207/2.
post #16240 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I have heard the entire Diamond series at the same time in the same room and same system. Repeated 3 different times just to make sure. Volume level matched with my Galaxy digital SPL meter for peak volume. Same dealer. 800D, 802D, 803D, 804D, 805D.

Good for you and which ones did you prefer? Where did you hear the most difference?

I compared the 800D2 and the 802D2 and I went with the 800D2 s just because I could biggrin.gif Having said that I would have been very happy with the 802D2 there are amazing speakers tongue.gif
post #16241 of 17849
Hi all,

I would like to get everyone's thoughts on the older CDM1-series speakers. I came across a pair of old cdm 1 speakers for $600. Wondering if it is worthwhile to replace my current DM601s3. I am enjoying the 601s alot as a 2.1 music system. Wondering if the cdm1 offers significant sound upgrades or not.
post #16242 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by wunderkind View Post

Hi all,

I would like to get everyone's thoughts on the older CDM1-series speakers. I came across a pair of old cdm 1 speakers for $600. Wondering if it is worthwhile to replace my current DM601s3. I am enjoying the 601s alot as a 2.1 music system. Wondering if the cdm1 offers significant sound upgrades or not.

Beware of using older audiophile speakers in a home theater set-up. I have a pair of DM7 mk2s that I was using as my FR and FL speakers and they couldn't handle the dynamic range of movie soundtracks and I was risking damaging them. They are incredible music speakers, but I ultimately switched them out for DM600s1s for my HT, the DM7s are going to a dedicated stereo music system.
post #16243 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by NXPlasmid View Post

Beware of using older audiophile speakers in a home theater set-up. I have a pair of DM7 mk2s that I was using as my FR and FL speakers and they couldn't handle the dynamic range of movie soundtracks and I was risking damaging them. They are incredible music speakers, but I ultimately switched them out for DM600s1s for my HT, the DM7s are going to a dedicated stereo music system.

Thanks. I should've been a bit more specific.... I would be using the CDM1 for music and move the 601s3 into the HT system in another room.

I think the CDM-series were in the late-90s to mid 2000. Surely home theatre has been around by then.
post #16244 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by wunderkind View Post

Thanks. I should've been a bit more specific.... I would be using the CDM1 for music and move the 601s3 into the HT system in another room.

I think the CDM-series were in the late-90s to mid 2000. Surely home theatre has been around by then.
Are you referring to the CDM 1NTs? I had a pair of these that I really liked, used as surrounds for my CDM 9NTs and CDM CNT. If so, I think the price you mention is a bit high...I resold mine for about the same price back in '07.
post #16245 of 17849
Depending on the forum you visit or subscribe to, certain posters will claim there is no difference between amps, speakers, cables etc. For example there will those who have bought into certain models, such as Emotiva range and swear that there is no need to spend more, but this often comes from those who refuse to, or perhaps can't spend more?

Others will hear the differences, so I am happy to report a difference, and it isn't because I have to justify my purchase since I have heard the Diamond versions of the 804 and 805, and own the 804D, and 805s. The differences are more than just bass, but the way the mids and bass are generated are also different and will find use in different settings. I use each in a different room, with satisfactory results.

Cheers
post #16246 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Good for you and which ones did you prefer? Where did you hear the most difference?

I compared the 800D2 and the 802D2 and I went with the 800D2 s just because I could biggrin.gif Having said that I would have been very happy with the 802D2 there are amazing speakers tongue.gif

The only difference I heard was in the bass region on music that has a lot of bass contents. So without subs, I would prefer the 800D2.

It's the same way with the Revel Salon2 vs. Studio2. I bought the Salon2 just because I could fit them in my room, but the only difference I heard was in the bass region, which is a mute point since I use 7 subwoofers for listening to both 2Ch music and 5Ch movies.
post #16247 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

So let's change this up, do you also feel there is little to no difference between the Revel Gem2, Studio2 and Salon2 accounting for the bass differences? Same question for say Kef and the 201/2, 203/2, 205/2 and 207/2.

Unequivocally, yes, I think the only significant difference among those speakers is in the bass region in the environment I listened in.

Now if the listening environment called for much higher output (say 95dB A-weight from 4 meters away), there might be a significant difference because the smaller speakers are limited here.

I never listen to loud volume (> 90dB A-weighted per OSHA).

But you know we are talking about opinions. If you ask 100 audiophiles, you will get 100 different opinions no matter the question. And every audiophile seems to think he knows better. biggrin.gif

And to be clear, I do not think I know better than anyone else when it comes to hearing acuity. My audiophile hearing ability is just as limited as any other human. wink.gif

I just know what I hear based on volume level-match comparisons in the same room.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 2/5/14 at 8:01am
post #16248 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Unequivocally, yes, I think the only significant difference among those speakers is in the bass region in the environment I listened in.

Now if the listening environment called for much higher output (say 95dB A-weight from 4 meters away), there might be a significant difference because the smaller speakers are limited here.

I never listen to loud volume (> 90dB A-weighted per OSHA).

But you know we are talking about opinions. If you ask 100 audiophiles, you will get 100 different opinions no matter the question. And every audiophile seems to think he knows better. biggrin.gif

And to be clear, I do not think I know better than anyone else when it comes to hearing acuity. My audiophile hearing ability is just as limited as any other human. wink.gif

I just know what I hear based on volume level-match comparisons in the same room.

Thanks, I like that you pointed out how loud you typically listen as you are right that can come into play on a speakers performance. Some people do seem to listen at very loud levels, levels I oftten find uncomfortable.
post #16249 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

Thanks, I like that you pointed out how loud you typically listen as you are right that can come into play on a speakers performance. Some people do seem to listen at very loud levels, levels I oftten find uncomfortable.

Sure. Listening distance and volume plays a huge part on sound quality.

I've used the SPL meter many times. Most of the time the peak volume that I listen to from 3 meters away is no more than 85dB A-weight. Very few times close to 90dBA, but probably 90% of the time it is about 85-86dBA.

I cannot expect the 805 to be as dynamic as the 800 because the 800 would mop the floor with the 805 when pushed to the limits. I am sure the tweeter and midrange would be doing all kinds of crazy then.

But if you only listen to 85dBA, and I know audiophiles who listen to no more than 80dBA, from a distance of no more than 3 meters, that's a different story.

Heck, for people who only listen to a volume of 70dBA, most speakers will sound the same. biggrin.gif
post #16250 of 17849
Sometimes i want to go big (i.e. loud).
With 2 ch music changed to 4.2 ch music using PL IIx, my Radio Shack meter with A-weighting says i rarely go over 87 dB.
This is with all 4 speakers and two subs going.
I am 8 feet from all four speakers - room is 5100 cu ft.
Even when i want loud, the meter normally hovers between 82 and 84 dB (A -weighting).
I have seen 90 dB and it is TOO loud (for me) even for just two or three seconds.
post #16251 of 17849
I need to relocate my SCMSs to a new location. However, the only location I can move them to will require that I mount them upside down due to the limited space available in the new area, and I want to make sure they are mounted to a stud. Yes, it's a very short wall that I will mount them to. So, I was wondering if anyone seen and/or heard them mounted upside down and if there were any sonic issues.
post #16252 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View PostThe only difference I heard was in the bass region on music that has a lot of bass contents. So without subs, I would prefer the 800D2.  It's the same way with the Revel Salon2 vs. Studio2. I bought the Salon2 just because I could fit them in my room, but the only difference I heard was in the bass region, which is a mute point since I use 7 subwoofers for listening to both 2Ch music and 5Ch movies.

Seven SUBs :) That room must shake with movies so do you cross over everything at 80hz

post #16253 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja12 View Post

I need to relocate my SCMSs to a new location. However, the only location I can move them to will require that I mount them upside down due to the limited space available in the new area, and I want to make sure they are mounted to a stud. Yes, it's a very short wall that I will mount them to. So, I was wondering if anyone seen and/or heard them mounted upside down and if there were any sonic issues.
Don't know about the sound, but you'll have four new small cup holders, with the ports facing upward. wink.gif
post #16254 of 17849

Question for the B&W tower owners: Do you think b&ws are good for rock or edm (lets assume we have a subwoofer for this question? I love CM10s but tested them out more so on softer, gentler music thus far, which is a good 70% of what i listen to, but i neglected the quicker and heavier stuff. B&W have a reputation of being polite and I know my PM1s dont rock out as much as i like: so I wonder if that is due to b&w sound or their inherent size limitations?

post #16255 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Seven SUBs smile.gif That room must shake with movies so do you cross over everything at 80hz

Yes, XO @ 80Hz.

Any one of the 7 subs will shake the room like a ragdoll. So it's not about that. Really, it's one of those "because I can" thing, which I am sure you know all too well. biggrin.gif
post #16256 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by papashango61 View Post

so I wonder if that is due to b&w sound or their inherent size limitations?
Probably the size of the cabinet, types of drivers, and XO design.

It's based on the speaker design. Some bookshelf can actually output more than some towers at louder volume before distorting. For example, you can give up some bass for increased sensitivity and output. So if you take a bookshelf and limit the bass (f3 to 80Hz), you could increase sensitivity and output. If you take the same bookshelf and try to squeeze as much bass out of it (like f3 45Hz) as you could, then you get decreased sensitivity and output.

It's not always the case, but sensitivity tend to go hand-in-hand with output. IOW, speakers that have high sensitivity (like above 95dB) usually can output a lot more before distorting. They are often limited on bass output unless the cabinet is huge.

But in most normal living rooms of 18' x 20' x 10' and sensible listening volume of below 90dBA, I would not worry about the ability to play "loud", unless the amp can't handle continuous music before overheating. biggrin.gif

As far as types of music (Rock, etc.), it depends on the recording. Some recordings will sound great, some will sound bad regardless of speakers.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 2/5/14 at 12:50pm
post #16257 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Yes, XO @ 80Hz. Any one of the 7 subs will shake the room like a ragdoll. So it's not about that. Really, it's one of those "because I can" thing, which I am sure you know all too well. biggrin.gif

Yes question I though four subs were ideal per OToole so why seven? And yes I understand " because I want" wink.gif
post #16258 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by papashango61 View Post

Question for the B&W tower owners: Do you think b&ws are good for rock or edm (lets assume we have a subwoofer for this question? I love CM10s but tested them out more so on softer, gentler music thus far, which is a good 70% of what i listen to, but i neglected the quicker and heavier stuff. B&W have a reputation of being polite and I know my PM1s dont rock out as much as i like: so I wonder if that is due to b&w sound or their inherent size limitations?

If it can play Berlioz Symphony Fantastic at bleeding levels it won't be a problem for any music now if the recording is garbage it will deliver garbage they won't make the music sound better than it is be warned biggrin.gif
post #16259 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post


If it can play Berlioz Symphony Fantastic at bleeding levels it won't be a problem for any music now if the recording is garbage it will deliver garbage they won't make the music sound better than it is be warned biggrin.gif


Good point!!!

 

Do you guys like gloss black or rosenut better? hmmmmm

post #16260 of 17849
Quote:
Originally Posted by papashango61 View Post

Good point!!!
R Do you guys like gloss black or rosenut better? hmmmmm

Cherry for me biggrin.gif. Gloss black stay's clean for ten minutes after you dusted them after that good luck! I know because I have to dust my JL AUDIO F113 every other day! They are dust magnets, and we live on a canyon so no street dust rolleyes.gif
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