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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 66

post #1951 of 13894
1/2/08 at 11:48pm
e 685's are pretty darn good for the money. And you should look at the smaller center of the two new in the 6-range, the HTM62.

As for subs, i think the cheaper subs doesnt have that much to play with, but i actually prefer a brand-matched sub for me. And the ASW750 is more then enough what i can play fully in the apartment. What i found is that i cant really live without a sub, even with a pair of nice fronts as the 703. The sub justs add a bottom to the music.
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post #1952 of 13894
1/3/08 at 3:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pibbo View Post

I use the ones made for the 685 with my CM1s because I couldn't afford the FS-700/CMs. They're powder coated black with a flat rectangular base and two rectangular columns supporting the top plate. $100 for the pair. Does your local dealer not carry those?

edit: here's a crappy picture of them

Thanks Pibbo. I will be dropping by the B&W dealer this weekend and will check with him.
Is it ok if the speaker sticks out if the top plate of the speaker stand is not deep enough? Will it affect the speaker sound?
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post #1953 of 13894
1/3/08 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajitbm View Post

Is it ok if the speaker sticks out if the top plate of the speaker stand is not deep enough? Will it affect the speaker sound?

The 685 should be larger than the top plate, so you don't see it (the top plate). There are screw holes in the plate that should match up with threads in the bottom of the 685 so you get a secure mating.

edit: Also, I'd recommend picking up some playground sand, say from Home Depot or it's ilk. The hollow metal shafts that hold the top plate up are somewhat resonant (especially around vocal frequencies) and filling them with sand will both eliminate that issue as well as making the whole stand much more inert and secure, meaning better sound from your speakers.
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post #1954 of 13894
1/3/08 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

No, there isn't an advantage with the B&W sub, and I'd say it's a disadvantage. The SVS has an more stout driver, a more powerful amp, has superb measured performance, is about the same size, and most importantly, more inputs and equalizer controls to let you integrate the sub into your system more effectively. It will be fine in that size room. Probably the only disadvantage is that the finish on the sub doesn't match the veneer on the B&W's

I find that dealers are pretty ignorant on stuff they don't sell. Either they'll instantly put other brands down with undue bias, or don't know anything about them.

Well, the SVS SB12 Plus comes in rosenut so it has to be fairly close to the rosenut CM1's, doesn't it?
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post #1955 of 13894
1/3/08 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCJack View Post

Well, the SVS SB12 Plus comes in rosenut so it has to be fairly close to the rosenut CM1's, doesn't it?

Yes, you are correct. But every company has a different interpretation of Rosenut as it's basically a made-up finish. SVS's always seem a bit redder in pictures.
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post #1956 of 13894
1/3/08 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

Yes, you are correct. But every company has a different interpretation of Rosenut as it's basically a made-up finish. SVS's always seem a bit redder in pictures.

Well, I am red/green color blind! Still, even if it's not an exact color match to the rosenut CM1's, I gather the SVS SB12 Plus for $750 is a better sub than the B&W ASW 610 for $525??
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post #1957 of 13894
1/4/08 at 7:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pibbo View Post

The 685 should be larger than the top plate, so you don't see it (the top plate). There are screw holes in the plate that should match up with threads in the bottom of the 685 so you get a secure mating.

edit: Also, I'd recommend picking up some playground sand, say from Home Depot or it's ilk. The hollow metal shafts that hold the top plate up are somewhat resonant (especially around vocal frequencies) and filling them with sand will both eliminate that issue as well as making the whole stand much more inert and secure, meaning better sound from your speakers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cbibbs View Post

I have had a pair of 602 S2 speakers on stands with top plates roughly 6" x 9" for a number of years. They are more than stable enough if you don't have kids or pets.

These aren't mine exactly as they've changed the bottom plate over the years, but roughly the same. Mine also have holes drilled in the poles so the speaker wire threads into them to keep them hidden.

Thanks cbibbs & Pibbo for your inputs. You have been most helpful.
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post #1958 of 13894
1/4/08 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCJack View Post

Well, I am red/green color blind! Still, even if it's not an exact color match to the rosenut CM1's, I gather the SVS SB12 Plus for $750 is a better sub than the B&W ASW 610 for $525??

I'd say so but it's your money. If you just want something to add a bit of extra bass, the 610 is fine, but the SVS SB12 is still a very good value despite the higher cost. This is a case of paying more and getting a lot more. In this case, you are going to get a sub that plays deeper, integrates better into your room (EQ controls), and will have the headroom to play anything cleanly your throw at it (in your medium sized room). It's a sub that you won't want to get rid of even if you upgrade down the road. Personally, I'd rather have no sub than to skimp on the sub. The CM1 is good enough of a speaker that I think that pairing a high quality $1000 sub with it would not be overkill

I'm biased of course, but I would do it again in a heartbeat.
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post #1959 of 13894
1/4/08 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

I'd say so but it's your money. If you just want something to add a bit of extra bass, the 610 is fine, but the SVS SB12 is still a very good value despite the higher cost. This is a case of paying more and getting a lot more. In this case, you are going to get a sub that plays deeper, integrates better into your room (EQ controls), and will have the headroom to play anything cleanly your throw at it (in your medium sized room). It's a sub that you won't want to get rid of even if you upgrade down the road. Personally, I'd rather have no sub than to skimp on the sub. The CM1 is good enough of a speaker that I think that pairing a high quality $1000 sub with it would not be overkill

I'm biased of course, but I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Thanks for all your advice warpdrive. I spoke with SVS yesterday and the owner said that the sb 12 plus would work, but it would not be his first choice...he feels that it might be too small for my space...the room is about 12 x 20, but there is a 6" opening to another room that is about 15x30, and I guess the thinking is some loss will occur. I can't buy a big sub due to the wife...

I suppose I will have to stick with the SVS SB 12 Plus. The only other sub that will fit my space that caught my eye is the Velodyne SPL 1200r. Would this be a better sub than the svs sb12 plus??
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post #1960 of 13894
1/4/08 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCJack View Post

he feels that it might be too small for my space...the room is about 12 x 20, but there is a 6" opening to another room that is about 15x30, and I guess the thinking is some loss will occur. I can't buy a big sub due to the wife...

I suppose I will have to stick with the SVS SB 12 Plus. The only other sub that will fit my space that caught my eye is the Velodyne SPL 1200r. Would this be a better sub than the svs sb12 plus??

I guess it depends on your perspective whether the SB12 is enough. The problem with open spaces is that bass waves need to pressurize the whole room and if you have an open space, the bass sound waves "sees" the open space as a bigger room. However, how much this matters depends on how much "impact" you expect to feel from the sub. With a larger room, you will have to run the sub a bit harder to fill your main room with sound.

On the other hand, I'm sure you read the reviews on S&V magazine and Hometheatershack.com which used the SB12 in a 7500 cubic foot room and it was still very satisfying and clean sounding even when the sub was pushed hard.

The SPL1200R is a excellent sub, but now you are talking about nearly twice the price. Where the SPL1200R is nice is that it has automatic equalization which takes the guesswork out of getting the sub to sound good in the room. So yes, you should definitely consider that one if your budget allows for it and you still need a compact form sub.

SVS does have a money back guarantee and you could always try it for yourself and see if it meets your needs.
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post #1961 of 13894
1/4/08 at 8:33am
Hi B&W owners, If i was interested in getting a B&W 5.1 system for around $1500-1700...what would be some set ups you all would recommend? I am running an Onkyo 605 currently.
~Gavin
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post #1962 of 13894
1/4/08 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gspin2k1 View Post

Hi B&W owners, If i was interested in getting a B&W 5.1 system for around $1500-1700...what would be some set ups you all would recommend? I am running an Onkyo 605 currently.
~Gavin

You want the 600 series if possible

For a medium sized room.
4x B&W 686 $960
1x B&W HTM62 $425
Some stands $100
And a basic sub such as a SVS PB10. $480

Total $1950. Probably knock 10% off that price after discounts.

If you can't afford it, get the 2 rear speakers later.
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post #1963 of 13894
1/4/08 at 8:57am
Get the 686 for the rear, knocks off $100
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post #1964 of 13894
1/4/08 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

You want the 600 series if possible

For a medium sized room.
4x B&W 685 $960
1x B&W HTM62 $425
Some stands $100
And a basic sub such as a SVS PB10. $480

Total $1950. Probably knock 10% off that price after discounts.

If you can't afford it, get the 2 rear speakers later.

The Home Theater area of my living/dining room is only about 150 Square Feet. So smaller is better assuming the sound (for movies) does not degrade by too much. I'm still willing to go with towers if they are better given that bookshelf/sat speakers tend to take up as much space as towers when they are on stands. My only concern is the size of the matching surrounds and/or I hear that if you aren't a good enough distance away from the towers they actually sound worse than smaller speakers? Listening distance is approx 9 feet.

This is a quick picture of the two layouts i'm debating.
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...6555156&size=o

Anyway gonna look into those B&W speakers...recommended places to buy them?
Thanks a bunch.

~Gavin
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post #1965 of 13894
1/4/08 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobC1983 View Post

Get the 686 for the rear, knocks off $100

Would that still match well with the 685?

~G
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post #1966 of 13894
1/4/08 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobC1983 View Post

Get the 686 for the rear, knocks off $100

Quote:
Originally Posted by gspin2k1 View Post

The Home Theater area of my living/dining room is only about 150 Square Feet. So smaller is better assuming the sound (for movies) does not degrade by too much. I'm still willing to go with towers if they are better given that bookshelf/sat speakers tend to take up as much space as towers when they are on stands. My only concern is the size of the matching surrounds and/or I hear that if you aren't a good enough distance away from the towers they actually sound worse than smaller speakers? Listening distance is approx 9 feet.

This is a quick picture of the two layouts i'm debating.
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...6555156&size=o

Anyway gonna look into those B&W speakers...recommended places to buy them?
Thanks a bunch.

~Gavin

Actually, that's what I meant in my list above, I meant 686, but typed 685. The 686 matches the HTM62 perfectly. 4x 686 is $960

Towers start to make sense when you have a very large room to fill. While they don't really take up more floorspace, the problem now is cost. They just cost a lot more and will eat into your budget if you are limited. Also, at 9 feet away, you don't need the capacity of the floorstander. If anything a smaller speaker tends to sound more precise in the imaging (the ability to create a soundstage) as there are fewer drivers emitting the sound.

I'd say getting a bookshelf + a good sub is better than getting a good tower (say the 683) and a cheaper sub. A good sub is important because cheaper subs can mess up the bass line if they sound boomy or inaccurate.

Looking at your layout I sort like 1,2,3 more. It's too bad that you'd be so close to the rear right speaker. I'd almost be tempted to skip the rear speakers for a while first and see if you can live without them as rear speakrs will be too easy to locate if you have it so close to the side of the couch. You would definitely want to wall mount it to get it higher above your head so it's not blasting into right ear.

As for a good store, B&W dealers can only sell locally so you have to find the closest dealer to you. B&W is pretty strict on that.
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post #1967 of 13894
1/4/08 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

I guess it depends on your perspective whether the SB12 is enough. The problem with open spaces is that bass waves need to pressurize the whole room and if you have an open space, the bass sound waves "sees" the open space as a bigger room. However, how much this matters depends on how much "impact" you expect to feel from the sub. With a larger room, you will have to run the sub a bit harder to fill your main room with sound.

On the other hand, I'm sure you read the reviews on S&V magazine and Hometheatershack.com which used the SB12 in a 7500 cubic foot room and it was still very satisfying and clean sounding even when the sub was pushed hard.

The SPL1200R is a excellent sub, but now you are talking about nearly twice the price. Where the SPL1200R is nice is that it has automatic equalization which takes the guesswork out of getting the sub to sound good in the room. So yes, you should definitely consider that one if your budget allows for it and you still need a compact form sub.

SVS does have a money back guarantee and you could always try it for yourself and see if it meets your needs.

Hey, thanks warpdrive. Sounds like both subs will work. I think I saw some online prices for the velodyne at about $1100...The svs is $750. Not much difference to me. If price were no object, which one would you buy given my circumstances?
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post #1968 of 13894
1/4/08 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCJack View Post

Hey, thanks warpdrive. Sounds like both subs will work. I think I saw some online prices for the velodyne at about $1100...The svs is $750. Not much difference to me. If price were no object, which one would you buy given my circumstances?

I'd probably go for the Velodyne if the price isn't an issue. I don't think the Velodyne is going to be better in terms of sound quality alone but the advantage of the Velo's automatic EQ is what makes the difference worth it. The Velodyne probably has a bit more output due to its higher spec cability which might be handy for your open roo> it's very hard to go wrong with any of Velodyne's higher offerings (besides cost itself).
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post #1969 of 13894
1/4/08 at 11:45am
Stealth, the 685s are very good for the money, and the truth is the new 68X speakers are very different sounding than the 70x speakers, I would not say one is better than the other. I compared the 683 directly to the 703, side by side, cost no object, and picked the 683.

LTCJack, I have a room similar in size to yours and bought a SPL-1200R. It has no problems filling my room with bass and it matches very nicely with my B&Ws. My room is a strange shape with a vaulted ceiling, and my processor does not have room correction, so the built in room auto eq on the Velo is great for me, and I like having the remote. Just be carefull when looking for the SPL online, if it is not an authorized dealer, Velodyne WILL NOT honor the warranty, currently 3yrs electronics, 5yrs driver.
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post #1970 of 13894
1/4/08 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

Actually, that's what I meant in my list above, I meant 686, but typed 685. The 686 matches the HTM62 perfectly. 4x 686 is $960

Towers start to make sense when you have a very large room to fill. While they don't really take up more floorspace, the problem now is cost. They just cost a lot more and will eat into your budget if you are limited. Also, at 9 feet away, you don't need the capacity of the floorstander. If anything a smaller speaker tends to sound more precise in the imaging (the ability to create a soundstage) as there are fewer drivers emitting the sound.

I'd say getting a bookshelf + a good sub is better than getting a good tower (say the 683) and a cheaper sub. A good sub is important because cheaper subs can mess up the bass line if they sound boomy or inaccurate.

Looking at your layout I sort like 1,2,3 more. It's too bad that you'd be so close to the rear right speaker. I'd almost be tempted to skip the rear speakers for a while first and see if you can live without them as rear speakrs will be too easy to locate if you have it so close to the side of the couch. You would definitely want to wall mount it to get it higher above your head so it's not blasting into right ear.

As for a good store, B&W dealers can only sell locally so you have to find the closest dealer to you. B&W is pretty strict on that.

Actually for option 1,2,3 The left rear speaker tends to be the issue (firing directly in my ear from a stand). As I tend to sit on the left side of the couch (its the reclining part, and more centered with the TV). But then again the wall extends all the way to the dining room on that end so technically I could wall mount that speaker further down.

The book shelf sounding better (regarding imaging sitting close) is interesting. How does that PVS sub you recommended compare to say an Elemental Design or HSU Research one (STF-2)?

Oh I called up a local store near me that sells B&W speakers..so far here is what they are giving me:
686 - $480/PR
685 - $650/Pr
HTM62 center - $440
and they recommended this sub I think it's either the ASW610 or the PSW610 (said it's by B&W as well) at $650.

Pricing they said normally for a 5.1 system is 5% off the total..and like an add'l $100...does that seem about right for B&W spekaers?

~G
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post #1971 of 13894
1/4/08 at 12:33pm
gspin,

Those prices are just MSRP list price, so you would knock 5% off that correct? 5% is not doing you any favours because I think the average discount is closer to 10%.

Skip the B&W subs, not worth it. The SVS SB12 I own is one of the better ultra compact subs under $1000, but in the world of subs, bigger is always better. Hsu and eD make great subs and you'd be way ahead if you went for one of those (I'd suggest the VTF series instead of the STF-2 due to the deeper bass you get). For $600, you could have a sub from Hsu that rivals the $1000 B&W subs.

I think you could make your room work with those speakers and placement. All AV Receivers have settings to adjust the balance and distance of speakers, so you can balance the sound properly even if things aren't symmetrical.
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post #1972 of 13894
1/4/08 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

gspin,

Those prices are just MSRP list price, so you would knock 5% off that correct? 5% is not doing you any favours because I think the average discount is closer to 10%.

Skip the B&W subs, not worth it. The SVS SB12 I own is one of the better ultra compact subs under $1000, but in the world of subs, bigger is always better. Hsu and eD make great subs and you'd be way ahead if you went for one of those (I'd suggest the VTF series instead of the STF-2 due to the deeper bass you get). For $600, you could have a sub from Hsu that rivals the $1000 B&W subs.

I think you could make your room work with those speakers and placement. All AV Receivers have settings to adjust the balance and distance of speakers, so you can balance the sound properly even if things aren't symmetrical.

Yeah it seems like the guy was willing to work around a 9% discount. I yeah I think i'd probably for for a different sub. Especially if i'm trying my best to keep everything under $2k...$1.7, if possible.

Has anyone here compared the B&W speakers to Aperions? Basically for the same price..or around it:

Option 1:
Aperion $1900 (free shipping, no tax):
533 PT - L/R
533 VAC - Center
532 L/R - SL/SR

Option 2 $1995-2200 (local pickup, including stands& Tax):
685 - L/R
HTM62 - Center
686 - SL/SR
Sub from ED/HSU/SVS - $300-500

~G
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post #1973 of 13894
1/4/08 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodragon View Post

Stealth, the 685s are very good for the money, and the truth is the new 68X speakers are very different sounding than the 70x speakers, I would not say one is better than the other. I compared the 683 directly to the 703, side by side, cost no object, and picked the 683.

LTCJack, I have a room similar in size to yours and bought a SPL-1200R. It has no problems filling my room with bass and it matches very nicely with my B&Ws. My room is a strange shape with a vaulted ceiling, and my processor does not have room correction, so the built in room auto eq on the Velo is great for me, and I like having the remote. Just be carefull when looking for the SPL online, if it is not an authorized dealer, Velodyne WILL NOT honor the warranty, currently 3yrs electronics, 5yrs driver.

Thanks audiodragon.. sounds like if I can manage a good deal on the velodyne, I should go for it; otherwise the SVS will be good, as well.

Which one will look better in rosenut/cherry? I have the rosenut CM1's.
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post #1974 of 13894
1/4/08 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodragon View Post

Stealth, the 685s are very good for the money, and the truth is the new 68X speakers are very different sounding than the 70x speakers, I would not say one is better than the other. I compared the 683 directly to the 703, side by side, cost no object, and picked the 683.

LTCJack, I have a room similar in size to yours and bought a SPL-1200R. It has no problems filling my room with bass and it matches very nicely with my B&Ws. My room is a strange shape with a vaulted ceiling, and my processor does not have room correction, so the built in room auto eq on the Velo is great for me, and I like having the remote. Just be carefull when looking for the SPL online, if it is not an authorized dealer, Velodyne WILL NOT honor the warranty, currently 3yrs electronics, 5yrs driver.

Well I got my 685s today courtesy of Myemco,

I must say im extremely impressed. Coming from a former polk owner (newer RTi Line) everything from the packaging , to the presentation, to the look, and last but not least the sound. All superior to my former setup. And I went from 5.1 to 2.1 (currently saving up for the Center to match the 685s).

I was getting frusturated with polk cause of their somewhat sparratic QC (some times I would get tweeters with a fold in them, even though there was no box damage) not the case with these. The veneer is also a much higher grade IMHO. They perform much better musically then my RTis, and this is not amped, just running off a Denon AVR-2807. Haven't had a chance to pop in a movie yet, but Definately will.

All I can say is if this is B&Ws "affordable" line , then wow.
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post #1975 of 13894
1/4/08 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gspin2k1 View Post

Has anyone here compared the B&W speakers to Aperions? Basically for the same price..or around it:

Option 1:
Aperion $1900 (free shipping, no tax):
533 PT - L/R
533 VAC - Center
532 L/R - SL/SR

Option 2 $1995-2200 (local pickup, including stands& Tax):
685 - L/R
HTM62 - Center
686 - SL/SR
Sub from ED/HSU/SVS - $300-500

~G

Most of us have drunken the B&W koolaid....so you're unlikely going to get an unbiased view of other brands Don't believe all the flowery praise for every Internet brand you read in forums and judge for yourself. I will say that you should indeed audition and hear everything with your OWN ears. You may end up liking something different altogether but you will be doing so with good reason.

I like B&W because I feel they are the complete package, looks, history, reputation, engineering prowess, financial stability (will be around), support, and a sound that generally makes me excited about the music. I've heard enough speakers to know that what other people like may not apply to me.
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post #1976 of 13894
1/4/08 at 4:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

Most of us have drunken the B&W koolaid....so you're unlikely going to get an unbiased view of other brands Don't believe all the flowery praise for every Internet brand you read in forums and judge for yourself. I will say that you should indeed audition and hear everything with your OWN ears. You may end up liking something different altogether but you will be doing so with good reason.

I like B&W because I feel they are the complete package, looks, history, reputation, engineering prowess, financial stability (will be around), support, and a sound that generally makes me excited about the music. I've heard enough speakers to know that what other people like may not apply to me.

Well said.
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post #1977 of 13894
1/4/08 at 11:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pengilly View Post

Well said.

Interesting. You may be right. I guess i'm just gonna have to buy and return everything...the only way I can really audition in home..just wanted to avoid being "that guy" heh
~G
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post #1978 of 13894
1/5/08 at 5:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gspin2k1 View Post

Interesting. You may be right. I guess i'm just gonna have to buy and return everything...the only way I can really audition in home..just wanted to avoid being "that guy" heh
~G

This might be a something that you are already going to do, or have already done. If so, no offense meant:
You can always start the elimination process by taking several cds that you "almost know by heart & LOVE MADLY" to the store to at least hear differences on those speakers (hopefully hooked up to the same amp as you own) from what you are used to to either knock the items out of the box, or have it as a potential keeper so that you don't have all of them to take home. If it still sounds like what you want, at least you have a head start on the decision.

..Mark
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post #1979 of 13894
1/5/08 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by adm View Post

This might be a something that you are already going to do, or have already done. If so, no offense meant:
You can always start the elimination process by taking several cds that you "almost know by heart & LOVE MADLY" to the store to at least hear differences on those speakers (hopefully hooked up to the same amp as you own) from what you are used to to either knock the items out of the box, or have it as a potential keeper so that you don't have all of them to take home. If it still sounds like what you want, at least you have a head start on the decision.

..Mark

Yeah it might be. There's a store near me that sells some B&w book shelfs speakers i'm interested in..sadly with only a 7 day return policy (might not be enough time to break in the speakers). then for towers im comparing would be the aperion set that's highly ranked on cnet.com. Sadly no stores around me to demo the aperions.
~G
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post #1980 of 13894
1/5/08 at 3:07pm
I agree with the suggestion you should just go to the store with your own music and compare all the speakers they have there. Try to get an understanding of the differences in sound among the speakers they have. Listen to even more expensive models to get an idea of what great sound is like.

Try to make it fun, try a lot of different speakers.

The thing about reading Internet reviews is that NOTHING can prepare you for how YOU experience the speakers. I've read glowing things about speakers from fervent owners that swear they are the best, only to be disappointed or wondering what the fuss was about. Also, because everybody hears differently, one person's "accurate and clean" is another person's "harsh and clinical".

Since this is a B&W thread, I think you can't really go wrong with the 6xx series, they continue to refine them and they remain good values.
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