B&W Owner's Thread - Page 102

Looky what I got:



WOW... WOW... WOW... Quadruple WOW!!! is all I can say about the sound quality with these things paired up with my new Yamaha 663 running in pure direct mode bitstreaming CD-A. I can't believe how good a real system can sound with absolutely no EQ or bass/treble boost!!! On a crappy every day ho-hum system it's like you always have to add treble and bass to get some tonal quality and bass punch to the sound... not with my new system! Leave everything alone and just run it and it's got great treble, non-over powering mids, and great bass that isn't thin or lacking! (Just had to turn it down, got a complaint from a neighbor three houses down, lol)

Wow... I could listen to these things all night... From top to bottom the sound is just perfect! No hint of crossover points (why I don't like using the powered sub for serious 2-channel listening), driver integration, etc... just a perfectly smooth wall of sound from top to bottom! I didn't even realize how loud it was when I just got a complaint from a neighbor just before... they're so perfectly clean and non-fatiguing at volume you don't even realize how loud it is (or hear your neighbor knocking until a song ended, hehe)! I don't know what else to say, I'm in a total state of mesmerization with the sound quality of my new system! I was caught by surprise!

All them ultra fine details that I would normally only hear with a good set of headphones I never thought could ever be possible to hear as good with a floor standing loudspeaker system because I thought it was because the drivers in a headphone was right up against your ear. Well... these speakers got it! Every little fine detail is right there to be heard!

Anyone looking into the 600 series just get the 683s!! Totally worth the money!! Especially if you're a stickler for 2-channel music performance! Well anyway... these aren't the speakers I ordered, these are the dealers showroom demos. He said I'm free to borrow his showroom demos until mine come in or I could just keep these... whatever I wanted to do it was totally up to me. I'm going to just keep these since they're already broken in and I wanted to change to black anyway.

Finally got em'... and it was definitely worth the wait! In the past I always thought the higher end speaker brands where just something fancy for rich people... nope... these B&Ws are the real deal for people that love music!

What sub is that you have?

i'm happy with the plus. as it is, i have it i have it turned down to - 4 db most of time. very deep tones can be a bit overwhelming.

i can't wait to hear them...my local dealer sells b&w and paradighm, and i'm just itching to upgrade. i'm waiting for the new para. studio line to come in. i think the b&ws will pair up better with my dennon though.

I auditioned the 685s against the Paradigm Titan Monitors yesterday and I found the Paradigms to be too bright. They made hip hop sound a little bit better, but anything with horns or other already-bright sound was fatiguing.

3 houses?? wow are they houses, duplexs, houses close together, trailers, etc, did you both have the windows open, was it late at night, 3 regular houses is far, i only say cause i did the same with one house down but it was with my MFW-15 and it was 11:30 at night and they had their windows open, and there was only one window partaily open in the upstairs of my house.

i'm looking at the studios one below the signature series. i did listen to the signature s8 v2s. all i can say is they are pure heaven, and they look amazing. they do everything right, and i am im in deep lust. but at $7300 a pair, im hopeing that the studios run a close second.

Just got some 685s yesterday, man do they sound great, especially now that I've moved the Bose towers I had in front to the rears. I'm also pleasantly surprised at how small they are compared to the 602s.

At the store where I bought them we listened to some of the high end 800 series towers. Holy God. Now I understand why people pay $4500 for a speaker. Someday...

As others have indicated, it depends on your room and sub placement as major contributory factors behind how your sub will sound. Speaker placement for optimal soundstage and imaging is often times not the same location for optimal bass performance.

If it's any consolation, I run N804s all the way around with a NHTM 1 center. I have all of them set to small. I use two subs a HGS15 and a DD18 in a sort of funky configuration. The HGS15 is being used to handle from, if I remember this correctly, from 76 Hz down to about 40 Hz. The DD18 is set to work from around 42 Hz on down. This arrangement has been nothing but satisfying to me. Even with the 6.5" dual driver setup of the N804s I found them to be a more boomy at the lower end than my subs when run full range. Plus here's my system performance as measured by an SMS-1 in this configuration:

Trifield


Dolby Pro Logic II Music

Hi guys,
I have a problem I'm hoping you can help me with. I bought a very slightly used pair of 604 s3's recently from a reputable major dealer and am getting great sound on everything except Rock music. My low tom-toms and lower bass drums and instrumentation is muddy or just not there. I upgraded from a pair of JBL LX55's (don't laugh) that were admittedly very forward and brash. However it doesn't explain the mud I'm getting in my lower end. Everything is extremely pleasant and accurate from the new speakers when listening to music with discreet instrumentation like jazz, classical, mellow rock etc thru the entire frequency spectrum right down to deep base so I don't believe it is a technical problem, but the mid bottom end seems to be missing on grunge, metal, anything with many things going on at once like hard guitar riffs combined with base and drums. Also, every bass and drum kit sounds the same no matter what the band or song. Same thick tight thud, no distinction. I'm wondering if something is wrong.

Here's my set up:
Integra DTR-6.2 with 100x5 at 8 ohms, more at 6. More when in Stereo which is what I'm listening to when I hear a problem and expect more.
No sub.
BlueJeans 14x4 bi-wire cables 20-foot each per speaker. (I did try a pair of 10x2 and there was no difference.)
Sony BDP-S300 for CD's connected with both optical and analog to different inputs (no diff), Dish Network VIP722 for Sirius radio, AppleTV for MP3's, nothing great and they all sound the same no matter what the source. No good definition in the lower end on hard rock.

I have the plugs in the baffles of the 604's to prevent some bass bloom I was hearing.

Anyway, for home theater and non-rock these fronts kick butt, but for rocking music they are lacking right now. Are they under powered? Is it my cables?

One last thing, they should be fairly broken in. I've been playing music thru them 20 hrs a day for the past week and a half so I don't think that is the problem.

Looking for help, thanks!

p.s. Room placement seems quite good. I'm getting a nice wall of sound in front of me that places singers and instruments away from the actual speakers. A nice effect that I'm very happy with.

Sounds like a room placement issue to me. Whenever I get a lack of guitar grunge and terrible bass guitar, the solution has been to pull the speakers further out into the room. How far are the speakers from the wall behind them? I always had your mentioned problem when the speakers were less than 2' away from the front wall. 3' and beyond and the problem became lower in frequency and lessened in magnitude. I believe it corresponds to some cancellation of the source wave from the reflected wave coming from behind the speaker.

Additionally, you are probably getting some modal contributions. What are the dimensions of the room and do you have any intention to invest in some bass traps?

You hit it on the head Sir, thank you. My speakers are 1 foot from the wall behind them because of space limitations of the living space, and the room extends out another 40 feet to the left of the speaker set-up. The room also has a 25-foot lofted ceiling before it tapers off toward the end. I was hoping you would tell me it was a power problem as I have an eye on the new Rotel series coming out.

At any rate, the sound trapping by wall-to-wall carpet, curtains and furniture seems to be okay.

Let me know if you have any suggestions other than pulling the speakers out another foot or two. Otherwise, if I really want to rock out I'll just have to try it.

-THANKS

That's really interesting that you said that. I noticed a lot of cancellation (bad performance) out of my new speakers while trying to set up the various s3's in a 5.1 configuration. The more I tried to push the volume of the fronts or the rears ahead of each other, the more they fought me until I set them all equal. When in a surround position these speakers demand a balanced volume or they will start to interfere with each other.

Pull out your speakers temporarily (like 4' out) to see what effect it has. If your setup is nice and clean, it should take only 1 minute to pull each speaker out the distance and listen for 15 minutes, then write down what you think and put the speakers back.

Rule #1 when it comes to speakers in a listening environment is to position the listening position optimally (somewhere between 33-38% of the length dimension from the front or rear wall with right/left symmetry.

Rule #2 is to position the speakers with right/left symmetry within the room with as much distance away from walls as possible. Side wall reflections can be reduced somewhat by toe-in of the speaker towards the listening position. Front wall reflections can only be reduced by moving the speaker away from the front wall or investing in some absorptive broadband traps.

Everything else are bandaid and can't fix the problem as well as optimal positioning can.

For absorptive materials, consult gikacoustics.com or realtraps.com. They have great customer support and can talk you through some solutions. I would imagine that putting 4" thick material behind the speakers might help a little, but you would have to ask them.

From what I have read from your description your biggest problems are the lack of right/left symmetry and the lack of space behind the speakers. There could be other problems such as too many exposed hard surfaces, but all of these problems add up and mess with your sound, and electronic devices are not the answer -- they are better suited for fine-tuning. Sounds to me that you still have some "coarse"-tuning to do!

In the end, everybody accepts some level of compromise. What amount of compromise to the sound are you willing to accept?

Trying it now with speakers pulled out ...


Wow my arms are tired now. These things weigh a ton. I noticed a difference, the bass became somewhat more distinct but I just can't have speakers in the middle of my living room. I'll take the hit on the rock music and enjoy the beautiful guitar plucks and the voices of the more mellow music for now.

Thanks for the help. It's not a loss, I almost never jam out anymore. The improvement in HT quality and non-rock music is great, as good as I had hoped.

-gracias

I have basically got my speakers against the wall for day to day listening with the wife and kids, it keeps them happy. Then I pull them out to the proper location for critical listening, and move them back when done. Luckily I only have 804s, 802 or 800s would be much more difficult to move

If you where talking to me, it's a Velodyne MiniVee I wish I didn't waste money on right now because I'm glued to my new found 2-channel performance I could care less about home theater right now. The 683s sound like they go as deep as the Velodyne.... the new Hans Zimmer/Batman Dark Knight soundtrack as some real low bass in it, especially in the first track for a moment nothing but low bass plays and the 683/Yamaha duo is so effortless. It's so deep, strong, and powerful without touching any tone controls.

I'm so stoked with their combined performance I'll be doing a ton of 2-channel only listening before I even try the surround performance of this system. The only new current movie that I haven't already seen on my system is Batman Dark Knight anyway and that's a long way from home release (seen it in the theater and their sound system sucked FAR more then my Sony/Cerwin Vega). I'm not much of a person to keep re-watching the same movies over and over again - watch it, and move on to the next. (only a select few of my favorite movies I'll re-watch more then once, but it's like it will be a year or so later).


Well I found the B&Ws to be fatiguing in the upper midrange with my Sony STR-DE845. It was like they had a slight "ringing" at the upper end of the midrange driver. But once I hooked up the Yamaha....perfection! Volumes that didn't even sound loud you couldn't even hear your own voice but didn't bother or hurt my ears at all like the Sony did a far lower volumes. Perfectly smooth from top to bottom and totally non-fatiguing even at volumes you're hard pressed to hear your own voice.


I would say measuring distance from door to door would be about 150 feet. We're pretty close together. Late at night when it's quiet out low bass just travels through walls. Windows being open I wouldn't think would matter. I can see how it might be hard to try to go to sleep 11pm at night with a hint of bass thumping in the background. They told me I'm free to play as loud as I want up till 10pm, heh.


Wow... I must have gotten lucky since I have mine right up against the wall and EVERYTHING sounds great. I play every type of music from hip-hop/rap, heavy metal, classic rock, soundtrack/orchestra, pop, electronic/rave, you name it, I have it and listen to it! Low tom-toms and bass drums on a good recording sound so real it's almost kinda spooky! I notice that as I move my listening position towards the back wall the bass starts to get one tone-boomy, but moving forward just a tiny bit fixes that.

I have thick 3/4" carpet with thick 3/4" under padding under that and wood paneling over sheet rock with thick insulation under that. Thick curtains over blinds to cover glass windows etc so theirs not really to many reflections for me to deal with. I also noticed over the years that firing the speakers down the long end of the room instead of the narrow end made things sound better easier (although I'm not doing that now).



Now I have this little dilemma... All my speakers are black except my center...hehe. I got the red cherry center to match the 684 red cherry demos I brought home then decided to upgrade to the 683 and change to solid black (even my friend commented that he didn't like the fact the front panels didn't color match the rest of the cabinet). I think black is more modern looking anyway... Wonder if the vinyl can be dyed black? I think I'll try that on some old vinyl Cerwin Vega cabinets before trying it on the B&W...hehe.

Anyone in the NJ/NY/PA areas wanna trade a red cherry HTM61 for a black one? Actually I just talked to my father and he said not to dye it but Krylon makes actual vinyl paint that would work (he said he painted wood grain vinyl finish speakers black and they came out great). Well, I'm going to attempt to spray paint a brand new $600 center channel, lol...

Well that problem is solved. I bet you guys didn't think someone would be crazy enough to paint a brand new $600 center channel, lol.









Military style... find the problem, solve it!

The front of my movie room is currently 803s and HTM3S powered by a Denon AVR-4308ci. I plan to upgrade the front to 803d + HTM1D. I'm concerned the 4308ci will starve the new front.

My dealer has offered these suggested upgrades:

1. Anthem AVM50 processor and MCA50 amplifier (5 x 225 watts).

2. McIntosh MX120 processor and MC205 amplifier.

3.Crestron Adagio Media System.

4. Pioneer Elite SC09.

The room is in the basement. Approx 20 X 30. Used mostly for TV and movies. Some music. Your thoughts please. Many thanks.

I've posted here before to get help on my setup, and have yet to solve my issues.

I got a pair of N805s, hooked up to Pioneer Elite 72TXV, which is 2 years old, rated 130 watts/channel. I was gonna setup HT, but because I spent a lot on 805, just did 2-channel.

I've NEVER got good sound out of this system, problem seems to be the amp not very well matched/powerful enuf for the speakers. The sound is a 1-dimensional, not detailed enough, and just not good enough for the money I spent on them.

My challenges:
- VERY SMALL room, with limited placement options, speakers 5 feet apart, left by balcony window, 10 inch away from back wall
- Budget: can only spend $1.5-$2K to fix issues/go 5-channel
- Small cabinet: Can only add another mid-size amp in there
- Investment: if I spend money, wanna make sure it's for a future proof item

Options:
1. Trade in 805s, for B&W XT - I hope those are easier to drive than 805
2. Change Receiver to Denon 2809: Dealership said those would drive 805s better?!
3. Add 5-ch amp, and use Pioneer as pre-amp: options are Rotel 1075 or 1077, 1075 TOO BIG, 1077 too expensive! I don't think the cheaper Rotel D-amps are better than my Pioneer Amp
4. Add 2-ch amp for fronts, use Pioneer for Centre, rear?! Options Rotel 1070
5. Give my Pioneer Elite to my Dad and pick his Denon 2805, it may drive em better, but it doesn't have HDMI
6. Go into debt and pickup this 2-yr old trade-in Classe amp at almost half price of new, don't know the exact model#

I really think the 805s are just not right for my room/music/setup. I listen to a lot of Electronic/house/techno and it just doesn't seem like the kind of speakers for it. My preference is to get XT2s for front, XTC for centre, M1s for rear, and PV1 (a demo).

I can only trade-in my 805 speakers to this local shop who carries Rotel, Macintosh, Denon, and a few very expensive brands...

Any help is really appreciated. I am quite frustrated to have spent a few thousand dollars on my setup just to find my friend's $800 setup sounds better!!!

Why would you go from the 803S to the 803D, and from the HTM3S to HTM1D? Just for the diamond tweeter?
And why are you not looking at the HTM2D?

The 802D is more of an improvement over the 803S/D since the midrange is in a seperate enclosure.

I'm sorry, I meant htm2d. Didn't think I quite wanted to stretch to the 802d, especially given their size. And yes, love the sound of the 803d.

Congrats man! Your response is just like mine when I first got my 683s. Thats the HTM61 also right? Great choice, voice matched perfectly with the 683s. Now you have to go back and listen to old of your old music, that you loved, and listen to how much detail you missed with your old speakers! The 683s are worth every penny, for the price its hard to compete.

Congratulations! You really won't be disappointed with 683 and HTM61 as front and centers. I love mine. Enjoy your new toy! By the way, what speakers did you get for surround?

I remember your case from a while ago. I hope you now fully understand that expensive speakers in a terrible environment sound like crap. You have to imagine what the sound waves are going through. In your small and highly reflective, non-symmetrical room where your listening position is situated at a wall and the speakers are situated close to the opposite wall with one speaker in a corner and the other speaker open, the source waves are interfering with each other in a terrible and non-uniform way causing a severe loss in sound quality. By wanting the excellent view outside your windows, you inherently accepted this compromise to sound quality.

A pair of mediocre speakers in a more optimal setup should sound better because those speaker's source waves are not interfering as much with each other before reaching your years.

As long as you choose room aesthetics over room acoustic physics, your view outside your window will be wonderful while the sound inside your condo will be terrible. That's just the way its going to be.

A compromise needs to be met: In order for one side of the see-saw to get lifted off of the ground, the other side needs to lose some height. Are you willing to do that?

The amp could possibly be a problem, but your setup is definitely the problem. Without fixing the setup, replacing the amp won't amount to anything.

You have excellent speakers. Set your room up correctly according to basic room acoustic principles that we went over a while ago (but we can review again if you want) and they will reward you with far superior sound than what you are getting now, and what "only" mediocre speakers can do.

Respect the sound waves! They are going through hell too you know! Just because you can't see them doesn't mean they are having a grand-ol time trying to spite you! Its quid pro quo. You set them up wrong, they bounce around and give you bad sound.

I was debating between the Titans and 685s and I think i'm going with the 685s. The Titans sounded a bit muffled on some songs I played.

i think your amp is also the problem, and your going to have the same problem with the 2800 dennon. you need to jump to the 3808. try you fathers 2805 before you spend anymore money. don't forget though you can return the 3808 to bb if you don't like it, or even if you do

Ok, If you can hear a difference between the 803S/803D, and HTM3S/HTM2D, and don't mind it costing more, then I say go for it.
I didn't try the diamonds, since my funds were maxed-out on the 804S/HTM3S, and didn't want to hear something that was "better" than I could pay for.

I haven't tried those processors and amps you have listed, but 200-250W would be enough. I have an Outlaw 7500 amp (200W x 5) and its enough for my 804S/HTM3S.

I agree with Jonomega on this one. I didn't see your original post but did do a search and found a pic you posted of your setup and speaker positioning. Where you have it is THE primary cause of what your experiencing. And it is NOT equipment related. If you follow the path of chasing some phantom holy grail which is going to solve your problem with a new amp, you're going to be in for a rude suprise and you're just going to end up throwing good money after bad. Fix your placement issues first. Then maybe look into room treatments. After all that is done, then look at any possible equipment changes.

Guys,

Any thoughts/opinions on the VM-6's? I need a new F/C/R for the living room and they must be wall mounted due to space. I went into the local B&W dealer to audition the FPMs, which I did, but I much preferred the sound of the VM-6's and for 1/2 the price. Just curious as what the general consensus is on them here.