B&W Owner's Thread - Page 136

If possible you should shoot for the 803D's. IMO The Diamond tweeter has a smother more natural and less fatiguing sound that is better suited for long term dedicated music listening that the aluminum tweeter. Classe and Rotel are owned by the B&W group.

Does anyone have CM7 mains / center while using 685 rears?

Cheers,

I've got a second system that is comprised of 603S3s in front, LCR60 center, and 602S3s for surrounds. The processor is a NAD T-762. I want to upgrade. I was thinking of getting a better center speaker and also replacing the processor. Since this is a second system I don't want to spend too much.

So:

1. Would one of the new 600 series center speakers match up well with my S3 600s? Which one the 61 or the 62? Would someone know the MSRP of these two centers?

2. Any suggestions on a processor? I was thinking of a Rotel but I don't think I need to go with one of the new 15s since I don't need the HD sound formats as I watch BR movies on my big set up with 800 series BWs. I am thinking that I should be able to get a good deal on some other Rotel now that the 15 series is hitting the market.

Thanks for any suggestions.

I'm not quite as experienced as everyone else here as I'm close to pulling the trigger on a set of B&Ws but I have done extensive research and can tell you what I know.

1. A lot on this forum have had a debate that the 61's aren't a good center channel. Personally they sound fine to me but I'll know for sure when I bring them home. One issue that seems valid is that the bass and the midrange are on opposite sides so some say they can hear voices come from one end of the center as oppose to the other so you should definitely demo the 61's but personally I can't tell. Some prefer the HTM62 over the HTM61.

2. If you watch BR (Blu-ray?) movies then don't you need an HDMI port and hence you'd need one of the 15 series rotel's that have HDMI? I thought the 10 series don't have HDMI?

McIntosh amps are pretty killer. Depending on the model of the amp...you could be looking at four grand...a lot more than the speakers. Unless you're thinking of pulling the trigger on the amp, then you really need to listen to the speakers on something more comparable to what you have at home.

Anyone here from Grand Cayman and have a Zeppelin I can borrow for a few hours in May?


Honestly, with what you've just said, I would go 685 fronts, 686 rears, HTM62 and a good sub.

By the fact I started with a HTIB? No way I want to keep this system for a long time and if I had a HTIB I'd just throw it away ASAP and it sounds so bad. these B&W's I'd keep for a real long time and I love the 683's as fronts. Just can't decide on if it's worth the price increase for the rears going from 685's to 683's. I noticed almost everyone with my similar setup gets 685 rears but my dealer really thinks tower rears would be better for me and being that I'd want this system to last me a while I'm undecided at the moment.

If you are thinking of getting towers for the rears, take a long look at your room and understand where you are going to put the towers. I am assuming that this is not a dedicated room, but rather a family room and with those situations you often cannot put the towers in a position where the can breath (especially the bass end, so you may not get the benefit that you think you will from having the towers with a more extended lower end. This is why a lot of people go with the smaller rears and a Sub for the low frequency redirection.

No doubt the demo did sound very good, but for a system that you buy, a $4000+ McIntosh with 685's would be decided class "overkill" on the amplifier side. For the best sound for the money, you should spend a larger percentage of the total cash outlay on the speakers. McIntosh is definitely in the "800 series category". With 685's you might do almost as well with a number of choices for a lot less money.

So does that mean there that the towers would sound worse than if I got bookshelves or is the benefit lost? How much "breathing" room should I need then? I suppose is there a certain distance from the sitting position or away from the wall or other objects I should take into account? This is going into a nice empty basement. It's not a treated room and not ideal by any means in terms of floorplan but plenty of space to put the speakers around.

If you have lots of room around your seating position (Left and Right) then you are probably not going to loose much of the benefit of buying towers. IMHO you need to avoid spending the extra for towers and then placing them like the link below. This is obviously an extreme case, but ideally the surround speakers should be just behind you (if you are not using rears) and therefore (again IMHO, many may disagree) unless you have 3-4ft at least you will not be getting all the benefit of what you are paying for. I know a lot of people say bass is non directional (you can't localize it), but above 80Hz I believe it is and the cross-over for a tower's bass speakers is above 80Hz

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post15766784

Is there no way that you can work with your dealer to try out both ways in your own room and then you can make a real assessment? To be honest if you are making that kind of investment you should be able to make some kind of a deal with him.

I've got a good amount of space. At least 5 feet left and right and 5 feet behind so I have plenty of flexibility with speaker placement.

How are the tower's crossover above 80 hz? B&W site says the 683's go as low as 38 hz +/- 3 db or is there more to it than that?

Dealer is cutting me a deal but I'm still haggling with him. He's giving me about 10% and throwing in the center stand if I get all towers and an A-stock receiver. If I drop the receiver (apparently he's selling the receiver at a loss) and just get speakers and 685 bookshelf rears he said he can cut that a few hundred (10%?). If I can get him to go more than 10% on the towers I'd consider it since I'd rather have him service my receiver than to buy it online had have to hunt for a service center myself.

There are cross-overs in speakers which direct the signal to the bass, the mid-range and the tweeter. If you go and look at the specs for the 683 it says there are cross-overs at 350Hz and 4kHz. Simply put it is directing the audio signal below 350 to the bass speaker, 350-4k to the mid range and above 4k to the tweeter. It is a little more complicated than that but it gets the point across. sound above about 80Hz (maybe even lower) can be localized (you can pinpoint where it is coming from), whereas sound below 80Hz does not appear to come from any particular location. This is the whole basis of using a subwoofer where your ear (brain) can be fooled into hearing stereo low frequency sound with only one speaker (the sub) producing that sound.

Now if you go an look at the specs for the 685 it only has one at 4kHz cross-over since it only one mid-low speaker which has to do all the work below 4k (along with the cabinet and port).

My original point was that if you had to squeeze your rear speakers in behind or to the side of the seating that the 685 might be as good as the 683 and save you money, but since you have lots of space around your seating I would probably go for the 683s all around if you can afford it.

As a classical music student, I mostly listen to classical CDs as well. It really comes down to how much money you can spend. My budget was $7000, but I needed left, right, and center speakers. This limited me to the 804S mains and HTM3S center. If I didn't need a center for HT and was going only for 2CH music, I then I might of went with the 803D.
Between the 804S and 803S, I didn't hear that much of a difference to warrent the extra price.

Rotel and Classe both work well with B&W, but I'm using Outlaw Audio. My Outlaw 7500 5CH amp sounds just as good as the 5CH Rotel.

What would be a good center to go with a pair of 705 that I should be shopping the acutions for?
Also any truth to the Bi-Wire thing?
Thanks

By far the best center (rears too) for the 705's would be another 705 unless you have an old CRT and need magnetic shielding. Also it is true that you can bi-wire B&W and most high end speakers.

UPDATE:
I set it up and went back down and listened to both the B&W's and Paradigms on the Pioneer SC-05, and while I could seem to tell the difference between the PIO and Mc, the B&W's still won, hands down, over the Paradigms.

Next, we moved the 685's to another room that had the VSX-103TXH, and I could hear the difference there too. Now I'm "stuck" with needing to buy the SC-05.

As for the center channel, I can't really put my finger on either the 61 or 62. 61 seemed to be missing some highs, and the 62 sounded too high. Thoughts? Again, the room I'm putting this setup into has wood floors, so I'm afraid of the higs being too high on the 62. Help!

Now, I started considering the DS3's as the surrounds in a 7.1 instead of just a 5.1. Starting to think, "hey, I'm already blowing the budget and making the wife mad. She's never going to let me upgrade from 5.1 to 7.1, so maybe I should just start there...

- John

Everybody has their opinions on bi-wiring. So you will get "yes" and "no" responses to this question. "Is there any truth"? That depends on what you accept as your standard of evidence. I haven't seen any blind testing on this point, so the opinions you get are subjective, uncontrolled, and of unknown reliability.

The 61 has a problem with off-axis radiation, exactly what one is trying to avoid with a center channel. 62 is similar, I am afraid, so I would just get a third 685.

Bi Wiring is a joke as well here is a very interesting article:

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_i...ritic_26_r.pdf

Too bad this periodical went out of business!! They spoke to much the truth

So I discovered the in-wall and in-ceiling speakers. I'd like to hear from folks with experience with these. I was about to go with 685 & 686, etc. What in the CI series would be comperable? Opportunity for a step up? Here are combinations I am looking at:

CWM LCR7
CWM CINEMA
CDS3
CCM 65

CMW 800
CWM CINEMA
CDS3
CCM 80

CMW 650
CWM CINEMA
CCM 50

The CDS3's are easily removed from the mix. Can I get some feedback? Other suggestions?

Thanks,
John

Yes it seems there is a bit of controversy about both the 61 and the 62. I started looking for an LCR600S3 on audiogon but no luck so far. I don't need the 15 for BR movies because I have a big set up where I watch movies. So I don't need to have that capability in this, my secondary, setup. thanks

The controversy over the 61 and 62 on the forum makes it a tough call if you wanna do the 600 series and supposedly the 700 series center isn't all that great either and getting a 800 series center is way more expensive than a lot would wanna spend if you want to keep all the speakers B&W.

I'll probably post my impressions once I get everything. If I'm not happy I'll see if I can talk to dealer to working with me in for the 685 bookshelf or return it and maybe nab one of the replacements some have suggested. Just curious how well do the old 600 series speakers match with the current ones?

I am actually quite interested to know how the new CMC2 pairs up with the 683's. Could be quite a match, but then again....

I have sig. 8NTs which I like best of the in-walls, and using a pair of CWM DS8s with them.

Using 2 pair of CCM 817s which are smaller, but are good, for master bedroom rear sound.
Using 2 pair of CCM 80s which are also great, for living room rear sound.
Using CCM 65s in my office and music through out the house.

I have been very pleased with all the B&W in-walls I have.

We built our house about 2 years ago, and the ONLY way to go was a ceiling mounted speaker in the main living area. The builder's contractor wanted to turn me on to some Klipsch's for $300/pair. Hey, I admit it...I liked the sound of that price...all the money was going into the Home Theater room.

My B&W dealer (aka my dope dealer), got me hooked on the CCM817's. I didn't like the $800 per speaker price. Holy CRAP, but those things ROCK!

They hang down a bit, and can be focused to an optimal listening position, but sound good in the kitchen cooking dinner with a glass of wine. My dope dealer tells me the tweeters are a modified 805s tweeter that they bent to fit the shap.

It is a little ironic, considering that two of those retail more than my 683's, are powered with an old so-so Yamaha surround sound receiver, in a 4.1 semi-surround config, and use the junkiest speaker wire the builder could find...they sound really good! Even my buddy with the 803D's was impressed with their performance.

Pricey, yes. But I have had the least amount of buyers remorse about those speakers than any other purchase. I'm still thinking of tucking on down to Best Buy and snagging those Klipsch's, 'cause I don't think those CCM's are staying with the house when it comes time to move! You'll need to factor that amount into the total cash outlay.

How many of these did you end up with, total? One of the configurations I was considering was using the CCM817 for front and rear. They seem to offer the most flexibility in terms of giving a more directional option that just firing strait ahead (in wall) or strait down (in ceiling). But is double the price (give or take) worth the ability to direct the sound?

Worth the price? That is a relativistic question. Seriously, a lot would depend on the room/furniture layout...how you like move furniture around. That sort of thing. I ended up getting 4 of these in the family room: 2 front and 2 rear/surround. Ideal? Not really. Other/better options? Perhaps.

Most of the time we are playing sattelite radio which is usually 2 channel, so there's 2 speakers I'm not using. Most television is not "real" surround...not getting the money's worth. Football, superbowl...that's surround, but it's mostly silly noise/special effects thrown in there by guys in the box without a better idea.

Movies are cool! Now we're getting out money's worth from all 4! Could I have gone with less expensive models that point straight down? In hidesight, yes since the viewing/listening position is very limited in that room, so we don't shift the TV or furniture too much.

Another consideration...center channel. I couldn't swing a center channel without changing lights, and the room could be a little dark and I needed the light more than the sound. It is a lot more noticeable than I thought it would be without a dedicated channel for dialogue.

If I had to do it all over again, I would probably go with three across the front and maybe 2 different models in the rear that pointed straight down. But that is sort of the reality of my room with its limitations.

crynear,

did you compare the 817s with the 818s? I originally wanted the 817 for surrounds because it has more tilt towards the listener but the wife wouldn't accept the ceiling wart. So I ended up ordering the 818. Do you listen to SACD/DVD-A/etc to hear how they sound?

Thx!

-Hedwig

i know this may be somewhat of a dumb question, but does anyone know anywhere that i could get a pair of either floorstanders or bookshelf B&W speakers for 650 or less?