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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 165

post #4921 of 14073
8/18/09 at 6:59am
@hdtimeshifter-

I think that you will be fine, they may sound a little boomy in the bookshelf. That said you will have a sub hooked up if you set the crossover at 80hz that my help. The only thing I would do is make sure that the front of the speakers stick out from the shelf. Have you heard the asw608? I like it the best for music, very tight bass in a small package.

@others-

The 684 are not that much of an upgrade over the 685. A larger sound stage maybe, but not that much more bass. If you really want floor standing speakers I would go up to the 683 or the CM9 if you can afford it. Personally I would just get the 685 and a nice musical sub. Spend the extra cheese on a center or rears.
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post #4922 of 14073
8/18/09 at 7:34am
I already have a pair of 685. so not sure if I should get a 686 as surround, or move 685 as surround, then buy a 683/684 in front. Is a 90W receiver enough power to push 683/684?
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post #4923 of 14073
8/18/09 at 7:39am
Not sure is out of topic here. I am using Chord silver screen cable for my 685 but I find it too thick to lay around if I want to bi-amp 685. any thinner alternative and around price to silver screen?
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post #4924 of 14073
8/18/09 at 3:49pm
don't know Chord, looks like its a UK only brand, What-Hifi has some good reviews for wire. I currently use Wireworld for my hdmi cords and Ixos 11awg speaker wire. Honestly I don't think that it makes that much of a difference as long as your not running them too far.

As far as 90w/channel for 683 go you'll have to just take your amp to to the audition. I used a 90w marantz 5001 w/ my Paradigm Studio 100 v3 and it was ok. It did seem to be straining at higher volumes though. I upgraded to a Onkyo 875 140w/channel and they came to life. I guess it depends on the sensitivity and size of room.
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post #4925 of 14073
8/18/09 at 11:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedankone View Post

@hdtimeshifter-
I think that you will be fine, they may sound a little boomy in the bookshelf. That said you will have a sub hooked up if you set the crossover at 80hz that my help. The only thing I would do is make sure that the front of the speakers stick out from the shelf. Have you heard the asw608? I like it the best for music, very tight bass in a small package.

The right speaker will probably hang out 1/2 inch from the shelf since it is 1/2 deeper. I'll also be placing them on the shelves on the sides towards the walls (well wall closet for the right one) since the right shelf is smaller and can only really be placed next to the closet door. If that ends up too boomy, I can move the right shelf closer to the middle of the room and move the left speaker equal distance inwards as well.

The dealer only had the ASW610. It had tight bass in a small enclosure. I didn't want to go any smaller than 10" as most 8" subs seemed to have more upper bass boomyness. Last night I ordered the Martin Login Dynamo 10" (older sealed version) for $510 including shipping, almost $200 savings over the ASW610 with tax.
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post #4926 of 14073
8/19/09 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

Damn that's sad to hear. I hope my local B&W dealer doesn't close down! $900 for the 683 (brand new?)... I'd have them in my home already! Heck, I have my used ones on Audiogon for $1100 or best offer!

Yeah he's selling them brand new for ~$900. On Monday he had two pairs left. Then the floor models would go for less.
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post #4927 of 14073
8/19/09 at 4:42pm
hey guys,
I auditioned some BMW 683's today for my first-ever taste of B&W... I first listened to a song I'm sure everybody has heard (an acapella with really deep voice-don't know the name) and they sounded fabulous!

However, for a 5.1 demo, the salesman played the opening scene of fast & furious... and while it sounded great; shattering glass and screeching tires sounded a bit forward, if not "bright" or even harsh.

is it fair to say that this is a characteristic of B&W speakers (particularly the 683s)??

P.S. It probably didn't help that they were being powered by a mid-priced marantz receiver alone.
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post #4928 of 14073
8/19/09 at 8:05pm
I would say you should choose a movie your familiar with. As you know not all soundtracks are equal.
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post #4929 of 14073
8/20/09 at 2:09am
I read through the 685 manual and the "hardness and forward sound" of them is supposed to go away after the break in period. Have you owners personally noticed this dramatic change? The "hard and forward sound" is the one drawback I've noticed of these speakers.
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post #4930 of 14073
8/20/09 at 3:36am
Havent heard the DVD or Blu-ray of Fast and the Furious, but a good movie with regards to surround is Master and Commander.
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post #4931 of 14073
8/20/09 at 7:05pm
Does your room have hardwood floors? Maybe add some softer furniture or foam pads on your walls. Or just ad a rug if it is hardwood.

My 685 still have a kind of stiff sound...woofer don't even move.
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post #4932 of 14073
8/21/09 at 2:55am
I haven't picked up my 685s yet, but my office bedroom is upstairs and carpeted.

I noticed the hard sound in the dealer showroom, but wasn't able to A/B them with the two other speakers I was interested in since they were in a different store and there was at least 2 days between auditioning. The other speakers were Vienna Acoustics Hayden and Definitive Technology 350. The Vienna's were very clean, but lacked upper bass and I could still hear the void even with a sub. The Vienna's were not very efficient and when I cranked to reference levels similar to when I listened to the 685s, I started noticing a hardness as well, plus I never seriously considered the $1600 Viennas as that would cost as much as the total amount I'm spending on 685s, Martin Login Dynamo sub, and Denon 1910 receiver all together. The DTs weren't as clean as the Viennas or the 685s, but had very good bass extension. I decided on the 685s as they cost a bit more than the DTs, but were tighter and had more clarity. The 685s didn't seem too bright - actually dull at first because of the hardness, but NHTs were definitely dull in A/B comparison.
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post #4933 of 14073
8/21/09 at 3:10pm
what kind of amp did he listen to the 685s on?

I think you have champagne taste! I think for the money the 685 are great, but lets be honest there are much better speakers out there.
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post #4934 of 14073
8/21/09 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

I haven't picked up my 685s yet, but my office bedroom is upstairs and carpeted.

I noticed the hard sound in the dealer showroom, but wasn't able to A/B them with the two other speakers I was interested in since they were in a different store and there was at least 2 days between auditioning. The other speakers were Vienna Acoustics Hayden and Definitive Technology 350. The Vienna's were very clean, but lacked upper bass and I could still hear the void even with a sub. The Vienna's were not very efficient and when I cranked to reference levels similar to when I listened to the 685s, I started noticing a hardness as well, plus I never seriously considered the $1600 Viennas as that would cost as much as the total amount I'm spending on 685s, Martin Login Dynamo sub, and Denon 1910 receiver all together. The DTs weren't as clean as the Viennas or the 685s, but had very good bass extension. I decided on the 685s as they cost a bit more than the DTs, but were tighter and had more clarity. The 685s didn't seem too bright - actually dull at first because of the hardness, but NHTs were definitely dull in A/B comparison.

I've had CM7s for a couple of years now, and their manual has the same paragraph I assume as what you have read.

I'm not convinced that it is so much as the speakers breaking in (and I don't want to really open that can of worms too far ) as your ears getting "used" to the sound.

Any speaker that is highly detailed in its presentation (which some people label "bright") will take some time to properly appreciate. Some people never get to that point. Doesn't mean they are wrong, just that that type of sound presentation doesn't work for them.

The advice about room treatments is spot on. Also, moving speakers away from hard surfaces, often by a few inches, can make a big difference.
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post #4935 of 14073
8/23/09 at 12:17am
I have been looking at B&W speakers for about two months now. I auditioned them at a local dealer and I am sold. However, I don't which speakers to get. I have two options:

Option #1:
4 - CM 5
1 - CM Centre

Option #2:

3 - CM Centre
2 - CM 5

My main question is how is the cm centre compared to the cm 5? Could I use the center as a LCR. I would love to have matching speakers up front. Thanks.
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post #4936 of 14073
8/23/09 at 6:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gassetjd View Post

I have been looking at B&W speakers for about two months now. I auditioned them at a local dealer and I am sold. However, I don't which speakers to get....

At the risk of repeating myself: listen to both configurations, and buy the one you prefer. If you're really concerned about sound, don't buy a speaker configuration you haven't heard.

That said:

Centers typically have different sound dispersal patterns than bookshelves, Centers are generally placed on their side, in the middle (center) of the screen - the sound is spread out horizontally based on that premise. Bookshelves are generally vertical, and the sound is still dispersed horizontally. So I don't know that 3 centers up front would necessarily be "right", unless if you placed the R and L speakers horizontally. I suspect they wouldn't sound right at all if you placed the R and L speakers vertically - I'd expect a very odd sound dispersal. The B&W bookshelves and centers are designed to complement each other (except, apparently in the case of the 703's and HTM7... ), so I suspect 2/4 bookshelves and one center would usually produce the best result.

That said, go back to my first comment: listen. A good dealer will bend over backwards to make you comfortable with a system. An honest, knowledgeable dealer will guide you away from things that don't work. (And its possible to find such dealers!) But typically, you want to "trust but verify" - listen to the system you want to buy. If possible, in your home.

-Reid
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post #4937 of 14073
8/23/09 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid_T View Post

At the risk of repeating myself: listen to both configurations, and buy the one you prefer. If you're really concerned about sound, don't buy a speaker configuration you haven't heard.

That said:

Centers typically have different sound dispersal patterns than bookshelves, Centers are generally placed on their side, in the middle (center) of the screen - the sound is spread out horizontally based on that premise. Bookshelves are generally vertical, and the sound is still dispersed horizontally. So I don't know that 3 centers up front would necessarily be "right", unless if you placed the R and L speakers horizontally. I suspect they wouldn't sound right at all if you placed the R and L speakers vertically - I'd expect a very odd sound dispersal. The B&W bookshelves and centers are designed to complement each other (except, apparently in the case of the 703's and HTM7... ), so I suspect 2/4 bookshelves and one center would usually produce the best result.

That said, go back to my first comment: listen. A good dealer will bend over backwards to make you comfortable with a system. An honest, knowledgeable dealer will guide you away from things that don't work. (And its possible to find such dealers!) But typically, you want to "trust but verify" - listen to the system you want to buy. If possible, in your home.

-Reid

The only problem with finding a dealer in this case is that I think it would be next to impossible to find a dealer with 3 CM Centers that they can use for demo.

Also, 3 vertical Centers would be the ideal setup if you go with that arrangement. The biggest problem with horizontal MTM center like the CM center is their dispersion patterns and most of the alleviated by placing it vertical.

If you can go 3 vertical Centers, I would do it but if you can't I would get the CM Center 2, which is a 3 way, CM5s for the front, and CM5/CM1 for the rear.
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post #4938 of 14073
8/24/09 at 5:40pm
Thanks for the info. I wouldn't be able to place all the centers vertically, so I will get the CM5 and the CM center. Another question for the experts, my budget for a receiver is $1500. Video processing is not a must since I now have an Oppo BDP-83 w/ VRS. I am only concerned with sound quality. A warm yet detailed sound is what I am after. I watch movies 70%, but although music is 30% of what I listen to, it is still important. Should I stick with just a receiver or use the avr as a pre/pro? If the pre/pro option which receiver? I found a good deal on a Rotel RMB 1075 on audiogon.
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post #4939 of 14073
8/24/09 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gassetjd View Post

Thanks for the info. I wouldn't be able to place all the centers vertically, so I will get the CM5 and the CM center. Another question for the experts, my budget for a receiver is $1500. Video processing is not a must since I now have an Oppo BDP-83 w/ VRS. I am only concerned with sound quality. A warm yet detailed sound is what I am after. I watch movies 70%, but although music is 30% of what I listen to, it is still important. Should I stick with just a receiver or use the avr as a pre/pro? If the pre/pro option which receiver? I found a good deal on a Rotel RMB 1075 on audiogon.

I would strongly suggest you get the CM Center 2 if you have the space. It's miles ahead of the CM Center which was always the weak link of the entire series. In that price range, I always recommend a receiver as any separates in that area will either be underpowered on the amp side or outdated in features/connectivity on the pre/pro side of things. For a warm sound, try Marantz or Integra.
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post #4940 of 14073
8/25/09 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid_T View Post

The B&W bookshelves and centers are designed to complement each other (except, apparently in the case of the 703's and HTM7... )

Or the older CDM 9NTs & CNT (which the 703s and HTM7 replaced). Guess they didn't learn from their mistake...

Check out the mismatch between center and mains:

Well, at least the tweeters are the same.


Someone mentioned the Rotel RMB-1075. As you can see, that's what I own and it's a great amp.
I only use 3 channels, sit about 14' away from the speakers, listen at moderate levels ( usually in the high 70s dB) and it's plenty of amp for me.
I can actually crank it up really high with no noticable (at least to my ears) distortion. I mean loud. My ears would practically be bleeding before the amp/speakers started to break a sweat.
I'm firmly in the "all amps sound the same" camp, so I'm not gonna tell you the Rotel is warm or bright or sleepy or dopey or Doc. I'll just say that performance-wise, it's never let me down.
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post #4941 of 14073
8/25/09 at 5:16pm
You guys have the 800D at your dealers? I haven't heard them but am curious.
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post #4942 of 14073
8/25/09 at 9:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

You guys have the 800D at your dealers? I haven't heard them but am curious.

My dealer has every B&W speaker, but never tried any of the Diamonds since they were over by budget.

http://www.asktheadvisors.com/index.html
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post #4943 of 14073
8/25/09 at 9:27pm
I finally have the cash to go Nautilus. I would love some experienced B&W enthusiast advice.

My current setup:

Onkyo TX-SR805 7.1 AMP- Pretty darn good for the money, debating using it as a pre-amp for just the L&R and going for the Emotiva XPA

B&W CDM1 L&R
B&W CDM Center
B&W In wall surrounds
Some pretty good in ceiling back surrounds

I really want to improve the mid-range punch and for 2 channel listening of music the L&R.

I demoed the 804S, the 803D. The 803's could really handle higher levels better but were talking 98db. I love rock, metal, blues, folk, R&B, stuff with punch and power. I play my electric guitar along with the music, LOUD. I love quiet sound tracks in movies and the loud Michael Mann movies.

There is a pair of 2004 Nautilus 802's I can scoop for the same price as the 804S.

Any advice would be appreciated, I'm leaning 804S......

KC
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post #4944 of 14073
8/25/09 at 10:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by okbarshabazz View Post

... and while it sounded great; shattering glass and screeching tires sounded a bit forward, if not "bright" or even harsh. ... is it fair to say that this is a characteristic of B&W speakers (particularly the 683s)??

Lots of people think so. Some people like that about them, some don't.

I think the reality is that if they sound different from what you're used to, auditioned speakers often sound "wrong" somehow. Too bright, too boomy, too dull, too nasal, whatever. You will tend to hear the differences. Its very arbitrary. So to a large extent, you want to buy what you like, not what someone tells you you ought to like.
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post #4945 of 14073
8/25/09 at 10:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gassetjd View Post

... my budget for a receiver is $1500. Video processing is not a must since I now have an Oppo BDP-83 w/ VRS. I am only concerned with sound quality. A warm yet detailed sound is what I am after. I watch movies 70%, but although music is 30% of what I listen to, it is still important. Should I stick with just a receiver or use the avr as a pre/pro? If the pre/pro option which receiver? I found a good deal on a Rotel RMB 1075 on audiogon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big L View Post

I'm firmly in the "all amps sound the same" camp...

Me too. There are a lot of very good avr's available today in your budget range, and Rotels are one of them. Do a little research, and look for the features (including power) you're interested in. For $1500, there are lots of things that are going to impact the sound dramatically more than an avr (or separates) ever could - speaker placement, room shape, flooring material, furniture type and placement, ceiling height, etc. Personally, I would always spend incremental budget on upgrading speakers before upgrading from any good quality avr.

-Reid
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post #4946 of 14073
8/26/09 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid_T View Post

Lots of people think so. Some people like that about them, some don't.

I think the reality is that if they sound different from what you're used to, auditioned speakers often sound "wrong" somehow. Too bright, too boomy, too dull, too nasal, whatever. You will tend to hear the differences. Its very arbitrary. So to a large extent, you want to buy what you like, not what someone tells you you ought to like.

Thanks! that is a good point. I know that detailed speakers are often referred to as "bright" or "harsh." I didn't have a problem with the sound... I guess I am just cautious when it comes to auditioning speakers because I used to own some klipsch speakers which I found VERY fatiguing!
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post #4947 of 14073
8/26/09 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedankone View Post

what kind of amp did he listen to the 685s on?

I think you have champagne taste! I think for the money the 685 are great, but lets be honest there are much better speakers out there.

I listened on a Rotel amp, but I don't believe there's significant difference between amps as long as they are equally powered and there's no equalization.

What better bookshelf speakers would you recommend in the $685 price range?

I had a final listen last Saturday, and determined that most of the "hard, forward" sound was due to emphasis on mid-range and lack of bass compared to my towers. Once a subwoofer was turned on, it filled the room much better, but there still is emphasis on mid-range. I wonder if the kevlar woofer causes the hardness. The tweeter is definitely fuller sounding than in my old towers, but I do not think it is much brighter that other speakers I've been comparing although I haven't been able to A/B in the same room other than to NHTs.

I was ready to buy, unfortunately they were out of the cherry ones and had not gotten the replacement from the warehouse. So I'll have to wait until Saturday - not too bad since I don't have time any evening this week to set up my new receiver, rewire, and move components between my living room and office bedroom. I'm also wondering why this dealer sells them for $50 more than the MSRP I've seen listed in reviews. Or has the MSRP gone up to $650 since then?
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post #4948 of 14073
8/26/09 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

I'm also wondering why this dealer sells them for $50 more than the MSRP I've seen listed in reviews. Or has the MSRP gone up to $650 since then?

B+Ws went up 10 percent a couple of years ago so if you are looking at an old review, the MSRP has changed

I'd actually prefer the NHTs myself over the 685 just because I find them more natural.
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post #4949 of 14073
8/26/09 at 12:00pm
I have had to 804s for about 1 1/2 years now. They are great speakers, the midrange is amazing. If I were in the market and had to do it all over again it would be a close fight between the 804s and Salk Song Tower. Because of the price difference I would have probably gotten the Salks. I was speaker shopping for a long time and got a call from my dealer that the 804s price was raising so I swooped in and bought a floor model the day before the price increase. I hadn't had a chance to listen to the salks. To contradict myself a little I could sell the 804s and get the salks but I think I might miss the B&W midrange. I probably didn't help you at all. Sorry



Quote:
Originally Posted by kcrow View Post

I finally have the cash to go Nautilus. I would love some experienced B&W enthusiast advice.

My current setup:

Onkyo TX-SR805 7.1 AMP- Pretty darn good for the money, debating using it as a pre-amp for just the L&R and going for the Emotiva XPA

B&W CDM1 L&R
B&W CDM Center
B&W In wall surrounds
Some pretty good in ceiling back surrounds

I really want to improve the mid-range punch and for 2 channel listening of music the L&R.

I demoed the 804S, the 803D. The 803's could really handle higher levels better but were talking 98db. I love rock, metal, blues, folk, R&B, stuff with punch and power. I play my electric guitar along with the music, LOUD. I love quiet sound tracks in movies and the loud Michael Mann movies.

There is a pair of 2004 Nautilus 802's I can scoop for the same price as the 804S.

Any advice would be appreciated, I'm leaning 804S......

KC
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post #4950 of 14073
8/26/09 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

I listened on a Rotel amp, but I don't believe there's significant difference between amps as long as they are equally powered and there's no equalization.

What better bookshelf speakers would you recommend in the $685 price range?

I disagree about the "all amps sound alike" my Onkyo 875 is much more forward then my old Marantz 5001. If I could go back in time I would have got the Marantz 8002 it was much more musical. The onkyo is much better for movies as it has that extra power.

I own the 685s and think they are the best bookshelfs for the cash. You could try the Paradigm Titans but I don't think they compare.

Love my Red Cherry veneer...much better than the old cherry. Well worth the wait.
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