B&W Owner's Thread - Page 255

Today I went to my local BB Magnolia HT at Newport in Jersey City to check out B&Ws. All they had on display was a pair 686. The first sales guy I asked about B&Ws had no idea what I was talking about. The second one showed me 686s and advised to check back in 2 weeks. Needless to say I left totally digusted.

+1000

I think you are right hifisponge and I started looking at this, the CMs would be gorgeous both aesthetically and sonically, but I am worried about the rear ports on the CM9s. I only have 3.8 metres from wall to wall and I don't want them sitting on my lap or have to fill up the ports to get the best sound

I was really only looking at B&W after having the 685s but maybe I should take the 683s back and look at some other options this weekend such as Monitor Audio/Spendor/Dali/Dynaudio etc.

Can anyone confirm that B&W speakers can't be bought over the Internet? I am from Australia and the CM9's retail over here for AU$4500 and the CM 5 for AU$2000 it is disgusting what we pay for things over here, I can get these in the USA for US$1500 (AU$1600) and shipped to Australia for less than half the price. These comapnies must think us Aussies have "Mug" written across our foreheads!

I was looking at a freight forwarding company but the problem is physically having to buy them from a shop, can anyone think of anyway around this?

The usual excuse for why we pay more here is because we are not as big of a market and shipping costs... this goes out the window though when I could get a return plane ticket to the USA, buy the speakers and pay for shipping back to Aus and still be infront.

Since this is the B&W thread, and since you own B&W I didn't want to derail it with other speaker talk, but my first thought was that for the money I think you can do better than the 683's. It has been my experience that you will do best when you buy within the range that a company specializes in. For B&W that is their top models. For speakers in the mid to entry level category, I would look to companies that specialize in those markets, like Paradigm, Monitor Audio, Infinity, ERA and NHT.

The potential problem with buying the entry level line from a high-end speaker company is that you are more likely to be getting speakers that have been either been intentionally under-engineered so that they don't take away from the perceived value of the higher models, or they've been made to capitalize on the brand name rather than to perform well. Dynaudio is a bit of an exception, they seem to have more integrity across their model lines than most high-end companies, but you still have to decide if you like the Dynaudio sound.

If you have limited placement options for the front speakers, I would stick to monitors or small floorstanders and use a subwoofer for all listening, bet that 2CH or 5CH.

People mention Monitor Audio vs. B&W, it's not a sin to look at other stuff. Having said that, the MA's I have owned are nice and yet, more an art item than a great speaker. I just always have felt the design compromise on small driver and tiny cabinets has not been to my liking. I own a pair now and am constantly underwhelmed. So, although I almost always agree with HiFispounge, I'd avoid the smallest MA's and stick with the other recommended options. FWIW.

Thanks hifisponge. You have been really helpful and i appreciate it

The 683s are good but as you say, probably not the best bang for the buck and I dread having to use the supposed "matching" center speaker.

I just played Frankenstein by Edgar Winter (SACD stereo) nice and loud and the 683s performed extremely well until I reduced the volume, the same song seems muffled. I have them about 12 inches away from the wall and I get no ill effects, I don't think this will be the case with the CM9s.

There are (3) decent hifi shops here in Malmo Sweden, I will I drop the loaners off tomorrow and then spend the next week/s auditioning some other speakers. Based on their brands, it looks like the main brands I will be auditioning:

Dynaudio
Monitor Audio
Dali
....and Audiovector - look intriguing.

As this is a B&W thread, I promise that if I dismiss them all I will come back with my tail between my legs

Thanks HTguy.....what do you classify as the "smallest"?

The companies on you list are all great brands. I used to own the Monitor Audio Gold Signature (GS) and I have a friend in the UK that used to own the Monitor Audio GS20's and switched to the Audio Vectors. He is very happy with his choice, so those should be on your short list. We don't have Audio Vector here in the US though, so I have no personal experience with them. I also hear that Dali tends to be better than average for low level clarity.

In the end, they are all going to have their strengths and weakness, so it really comes down to choosing the speakers that line up best with what matters most to you, while also avoiding any that do things that you find offensive or annoying.

If you want to see a man obsessed with finding audio perfection, look no further than the "My Ever-Changing HT" link in my signature.

Good luck!

That's what you get for living on an island in the middle of nowhere, where a short plane trip is 4 hours, the flies eat you alive, the sun will fry your brain AND you eat black tar-like yeast on your toast every morning

...just having a lend of ya Ron

I remember the feeling well - do what I did, moved from sunny Perth to vibrant Europe

I'd avoid the Radius and Vector Series. something like the Bronze line would be worth listening to, say the BX2 for monitors and BX5 or 6 for floor standing or even the Silver Series. MA makes a number of lines and well worth looking at, I'd just avoid the too cute lines. But, it's just one lone bloggers opinion and others may disagree.

Sorry - know this doesn't help at all

I'm really interested in the silver RX6. From what I've read they have a flow port at the front and another one at the back, right at the top, but apparently this can be plugged without too much effect.

I guess we will see.........

While I wouldn't necessarily use the MA Radius as my main speakers, after listening to every small speaker in my area (KEF, Polk, Bose, Energy, Infinity, Def Tech) for use in my den, to me the MA Radius were the best sounding.

Hello,

I have been using a pair of CM7s in stereo for about 3 years, and I'm looking to move to a 5.1 setup, probably with a Denon 3311. I have 2 questions I'm hoping you guys can help me with:

1) Does the CMC2 match with CM7s as well as the CMC does? Were there any significant changes in the CM line, since the CMC2 was introduced after the CM7s and CMC? B&W seems to recommend the CM9/CMC2 and CM7/CMC combinations, but is silent on CM7/CMC2.

2) On the B&W website the specs for the CMC say it is magnetically shielded, but the CMC2 does not. I am about to purchase a Panasonic 50 or 54g20 plasma. Will the absence of magnetic shielding on the CMC2 affect the plasma, or my pvr or macmini hardrives? Sorry, I'm a bit ignorant on shielding and tv tech.

The CM2 is the best match for the CM7 and the CM9 because all three of these speaker use a dedicated midrange driver. I would only use the CMC with the CM5 and CM1, or when you need a small center speaker.


Lack of shielding will not affect a plasma TV, but could affect your hard drives if these devices are within 2 feet of unshielded speaker. Check with you dealer to see if the the lack of shielding on the CM2 is real or a typo on the web-site.

I've read your thread Tim, it's a damn good read! You obviously don't get a lot of time to play those games you pedal

Yeah I think low to mid level clarity should be my criteria. Of course I love pumping up the volume, but let's face it, I live in an apartment and I should base my selection on what I listen to and how I listen to it 80% of the time.

How far from the wall do you have those CM7s rsook? I'd be interested in your experience with them.

Keep in mind that the sensitivity of the human ear changes in the bass and treble with volume. That is, we have progressively weaker hearing in bass / treble when the volume is low, so some of what you are experiencing is going to happen with every speaker. Likewise, you may find that a speaker that sounds good at low volumes can become bothersome / fatiguing when listened to at more enthusiastic levels. Still, for what ever reason, some speakers just seem to need some juice to come to life and the B&Ws you have may be one of those.

As an alternative, there are new technologies out now in AVRs and Processors that attempt to compensate for our decreased sensitivity in bass/treble by dynamically adjusting the bass and treble levels as you adjust the volume knob. There is Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Dolby Volume. I think that these techs need more work, or at least the ability to better adjust the level of correction, but many people do seem to find them effective in producing more pleasing sound at lower volumes.

Just in relation to my previous post in regards to the B&W CM9 and CM5's, the listed price I found in the USA was US$1500 and US$750 can anyone confirm this is the price for a pair and not single speakers? I was just browsing some of the 600 series range and noticed those prices seem to be for a single speaker so not sure if the CM range is the same.

Sorry for the stupid question but over here they typically come in pairs for the CM9 and CM5 ranges but while the site I was looking at doesn't specifically state either way I have my doubts.

cheers

CM9 = $3000 / pair
CM5 = $1500 / pair

http://www.hometheatermag.com/floorl...em/index3.html

I also sent you a personal message (PM) about your previous inquiry.

cat-like,

I'm using CM9's for for left and right front. They are angled toward the center listening position. The distance front the wall to the rear of the speakers ranges from 11.75 to 14.5 inches (because they are angled to the center of the listening position). They sound great and I hear no difference if moved further from the wall.

hifisponge, thank you for your helpful response.


cat-like, I have just moved into a new house, and haven't set them up yet. Previously I was in an apartment which was about as bad as it could get for room acoustics. I had them about 1.5' from the wall (wall to back of speaker). I wasn't able to notice any significant changes by moving them around, but that might change now that I have a dedicated room.

Well I bought my speakers today. I decided to take the day off and do all my testing in one day so I could remember what I'd listened to. I also didn't want to do it on a Saturday as it would be too busy. I decided not to test Dynaudio as I didn't like the particular store that sold them, not very logical I know, but that's the way it is.

So I tucked my Oppo BDP-83se under my arm and put a collection of around 15 CDs in a bag and set off!

I won't go into a lot of detail of the travels I made today but I guess I tested 12 different speakers plus I listened very briefly to another 6 to 10 before dismissing them quickly. This exercise took me nearly 7 hours non stop and I made sure that I positioned all of them close to the wall and approx 2.5 metres apart from each other, as I would have them at home (in fact I placed them all closer to the wall than I would have them at home).

I was looking at a budget of 2500 euro and under for the fronts and my aim was to find that bargain in the pack somewhere.

These are the main highlights, the speakers I spent the longest to audition after an initial listen got my interest. I also spent some time with PSB Images, Dali Ikons and Amphions but they didn't make the cut, plus I'd already had the 683s at home for the weekend:

Audio Vector S3
Very detailed, and of all the speakers I auditioned they seemed to have the least "noise" of all, the sound was extremely clean. It handled all types of music very well but it was so restrained. It felt like it was hanging back and only giving what it had to. I am not saying it was warm - just a little boring. Considering that this was the base model in the S3 range it did a real fine job and I am sure the higher level speakers are very good. I see an updated S series is only a week or two away from stores and could well be worth checking out.

Monitor Audio Silver RX6
After reading a number of excellent reviews, I expected that these would be my choice at the end of the day, especially given their price point. I didnt realize how compact these were, but a very good looking speaker (apart from the ugly plinths) with performance to match. They were lively and in your face without being too bright, but also a decent all-rounder. For the price these really are great speakers......except a distinct lack of bass when it was needed and I think that I would be playing at least half of my music using the sub if I took them home.

Monitor Audio Silver RX8
A clone of the RX6 except bigger and a 3-way setup. These were piano white and absolutely gorgeous. They would look great in piano black and I liked the fact that there was no yellow cone (sorry B&W diehards). I played around 6 or 8 tracks and was gob-smacked by the performance, clear and punchy just like the RX6 but now with that low end oomph that the RX6 lacked. The soundstage was forward but nice and wide, they were not too bright and not too warm. Of all the auditioning I did today, these put more of a smile on my face than anything else. I love Edgar Winter's Frankenstein on a good setup and I had never heard it this good.

Then Dianna Krall spoiled it all - boomy bass! I couldn't believe it, I reached for a Rickie Lee Jones CD, same thing again. They didn't handle the real low end bass material too well and both these discs are wonderfully produced SACDs. Some people think that heavy rock and metal will show a speaker's bass ability, but I think that jazz is a good indicator, even though I am not a huge jazz fan, I think I have 4 discs in my whole collection. The RX8s were very, very close, but no cigar.

Dali Mentor 6
I left the two speakers at the top of my price range until last and they were at the same store. The Mentors were basically the same price as the B&W CM9's, so it was good to audition them together. These were wonderful, lots of detail and a really wide deep soundstage. Nice tight bass on all the music I played and female voices were exquisite. Certainly not as dynamic and able to be rough around the edges as the RX8s but not far off. The Dalis were refined but could raise the pace if they needed too. The speakers disappeared from my view as I just absorbed what they had to offer. Low volume clarity was superb, the only down-fall I could find was that the detail and clarity sometimes came at the expense of being a little bright at the high end. Other than that, a superb speaker that didn't get my heart racing but was an extremely well rounded performer and I wouldn't hestate to put them in my setup.

B&W CM9
Last of the day! (well not really because they were auditioned together with the Mentors) The CM9s terrified me, I went into that audition room expecting to be let down. I had read a lot of stuff about issues with placement and especially the distance from the back of the speaker to the wall. I was telling this to the guy in the store as I was setting up, he looked at me like I was speaking Chinese, this made me feel better

Well, what can I say? The CM9s are wonderful. Instead of me re-typing everything again, just read the comments on the Dali Mentor 6 as they were very similar in clarity and refinement. Not even the slightist hint of boomy or wooly bass as I feared. In fact the bass was cleaner and tighter than the Dalis, this really shocked me as I wasn't expecting it and the Dalis bass reproduction was excellent. The icing on the cake is their looks, these are speakers that wear a tuxedo for all occasions and really are a good looking piece of furniture.

So, my conclusion:

The Dali Mentor 6 speakers are an excellent speaker and maybe just edge the CM9s in mid range and high end clarity but I am just not sure whether or not I could handle that detected brightness for long periods.

The Monitor Audio silver range seems to be excellent value for money and so close to being really good! I suppose if they were though, they would cost more. Too bad I couldn't audition the gold or platinum series, the dealer didn't have them in stock.

At the end of the day the CM9s good looks, nice tight bass and slightly warmer sound over the Dalis tipped it their way. Needless to say that I ordered the CM9s with a nice hefty discount in a package with the sub and the CMC2 centre.

Thanks to all that offered me advice. I hope my first ever testing experience is a worthwhile read.

Mark

Excellent read cat-like and I'm glad that you found a speaker that works for you.

Just one thing. The problem with the bass of the RX8's may or may not have been the fault of the speaker. Below 400Hz, down to the lower bass limit of a speaker, the speaker and the room act as one. Literally.

Case in point. When I auditioned a set of Focal 1027Be's at the local dealer, the bass sounded like crap. Boomy and lacking definition. Knowing what I know about sound, I asked the salesman to move the speakers into several different positions in the room AND I moved the listening seat forward and back to try to find a spot where bass was in better balance. Nothing helped. I was ready to chalk it up to a speaker problem, but as one last attempt, we moved the speakers into the next room over.

Bingo!

In this room, the bass was everything you could want. Tight, punchy, articulated, and deep.

Just something to be aware of the next time you go speaker shopping. If you encounter less than satisfactory bass, but like what the rest of the speaker is doing, exhaust all speaker placement and listening position options at the dealer or ask to take a pair home for demo.

For that matter, I'm afraid you aren't out of the woods yet with your CM9 purchase, as you have yet to see how they behave in your room. I hope they behave themselves, and or that you have the ability to place them and your listening seat where they sound best.

Good luck!

Thanks Tim.

Yeah I know I'm not out of the woods just yet, it will be a nervous 7 to 10 days before I can see how the CM9s behave in my room. it gives me plenty of time to think about which of my socks would look best stuffed in those rear ports

I understand your comment on the RX8s. The guys at this store are a pair of experienced hifi veterans, and I told one of them my thoughts on the RX8s when I emerged from the room. I expected to get some insight like you just posted, I expected to get "lets move em around" or something similar, I expected to get "why don't I get in some Gold or Platinum series for you to audition". What I actually got was "oh" - that was it! It was almost a statement of resignation like he knew it was coming? Disappointing.

I guess with a bit more experience, I would have done what you suggest, but half the fun is learning from guys like you - right?

Having said all that, the RX8s really got under my skin. I will look at a few reviews and forums over the coming days and see if they experienced the same.

You have a great attitude and your approach was much better than most. Next time just try not to be so hasty in making your purchase decision. Come here first.

But then who am I to speak. I buy super expensive speakers blind!

I won't take this any further as this is a B&W thread, but it is interesting to find the following on the first 2 reviews I found on the RX8s. I never looked at reviews on these speakers before auditioning, I only looked at the RX6s.

Whathifi

For
Quality look and feel; impressive weight and scale; midrange and treble is refined
Against
Overblown bass hampers timing and rhythm

Chris Martens - The Absolute Sound:

To address possible problems with excess bass, Monitor thoughtfully provides sets of foam rubber port plugs to enable users to fine-tune the speakers' bass characteristics to fit their tastes and/or room requirements. During my home listening tests, I installed the plugs in the RX8s' front ports, which tightened up their bass response considerably.

And whilst I will certainly not presume to place publications such as Whathifi in the category of audiophile reference material, there is a common theme here (if you can call 2 in a row a common theme )

That's it - I'm off to bed. I'm all speakered out for one day.

Here is another review of the RX8's cat. Thomas J. norton from HT mag loved them.

http://hometheatermag.com/floorlouds...peaker_system/

Also i think it's better to audition speakers in your home rather than at the dealer. Listening to them at a store will give you an idea of how they sound, but obviously the dealers room will not be the location your speakers will be in.

It will sound different, probably better, once setup in your dedicated space.

I've been bitten by the B & W bug, and now to make matters worse, I've been extended a phenomenal deal on a set of CM8s. They're gorgeous with the grills off, sound amazing, and are pretty much the closest to speaker pron I've ever seen.

What would be a good center and monitors to go with them in a 5.1 set? I've heard the CMCCGB (tremendous), and was thinking the CM1GB would be the best match because they all have 5" mid-bass drivers.

I've pretty much decided on the gloss black finish. It matches my Pioneer Elite KURO perfectly.

Thoughts? Admonitions? Raves?