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B&W Owner's Thread - Page 311

post #9301 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamioutlaw04 View Post

Thanks, would those match my 803n ?

Quite well, thank you. Better than the SCM1s I have. The SCMS has a "tweeter on bottom" approach that makes these speakers as surrounds better match for movie use. They are a great speaker!!!
post #9302 of 17995
Ok good , well let's see how much they go for. I would of thought that the scm1 would match better because they have same tweeter etc... If that is the case that these scms would do just fine what then about the center channel? Am I limited to the htm 1 or 2 or is there something newer and ofcourse affordable from b&w thy would work well with the 803n???
post #9303 of 17995
This is a very large thread; so please forgive me for not looking at all the posts. I posted my floor plan here. And I'm soliciting ideas for an in ceiling system. One user suggested a Triad in ceiling system which looks good. But I'm curious if something like the B&W CCM 7.3 would also serve as an in ceiling LCR. Are there any B&W owners out there with a setup like this?
post #9304 of 17995
I purchased a used B&W CC6 off ebay, only to find that the tweeter puts out almost no output. When plugging directly into the tweeter biwire plugs only, I get only a tiny bit of sound at high volume.

Two questions:

1) Does the B&W CC6 have a fuse? I don't want to open up the speaker just to find out, but if it does have a fuse, I don't mind trying this option. It's better than paying shipping back.

2) In case I get stuck with this speaker, if no fuse, does this sound more like a burned tweeter or crossover? I know with traditional pairs of speakers, one could swap tweeters and find out. Would it be recommended to take one of my B&W 601 tweeters out and try swapping it in. Both the 601 and the CC6 are the S1 series

Thanks for any assistance.
post #9305 of 17995
Never mind. I ended up taking the speaker apart. Question answered by self; tweeter is definitely blown.
post #9306 of 17995
In process of buying a 9/10 used pair of B&W 803 Diamonds on Audiogon from seller in Houston Area. Seller says these 803D have the Diamond tweeters but until they are delivered, who is to know for sure. Are the serial numbers on the Diamonds unique, or all products serial numbers after xxxx are Diamonds?
post #9307 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeh911 View Post

In process of buying a 9/10 used pair of B&W 803 Diamonds on Audiogon from seller in Houston Area. Seller says these 803D have the Diamond tweeters but until they are delivered, who is to know for sure. Are the serial numbers on the Diamonds unique, or all products serial numbers after xxxx are Diamonds?

This can be confusing if you don't follow the brand, but the previous gen 803 was called the "803D" and featured a diamond tweeter, while the current gen 803 is called the "803 Diamond" and of course it too has a diamond tweeter. The easiest way to tell if it is old or new 803 is the new model has silver rings around the mid and bass drivers, while the old one is flat black. Oh and the phase plug on the midrange driver is silver on new and black on the old.

Old 800 series on the left, new on the right.

post #9308 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

This can be confusing if you don't follow the brand, but the previous gen 803 was called the "803D" and featured a diamond tweeter, while the current gen 803 is called the "803 Diamond" and of course it too has a diamond tweeter. The easiest way to tell if it is old or new 803 is the new model has silver rings around the mid and bass drivers, while the old one is flat black. Oh and the phase plug on the midrange driver is silver on new and black on the old.

I think the easiest way to distinguish them is to count the number of woofers.
post #9309 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I think the easiest way to distinguish them is to count the number of woofers.

Cute. For the sake of convenience, I borrowed that pic from another forum. That is the 804 on the left, shown only to illustrate the cosmetic differences between last and current gen.

This is the 803D, which has the same woofer count as the 803 Diamond, but then you knew that I'm sure.

post #9310 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Cute. For the sake of convenience, I borrowed that pic from another forum. That is the 804 on the left, shown only to illustrate the cosmetic differences between last and current gen.

This is the 803D, which has the same woofer count as the 803 Diamond, but then you knew that I'm sure.

No. I really missed that but I added a smiley to my post to suggest that I hadn't.
post #9311 of 17995
Thanks for the quick reply. Kal you are a hoot, count the drivers....

From the looks of the image on Audiogon
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....-W-803D-CHERRY
they do not look like current Diamond model, but its impossible for me to tell if they have Diamond tweeter. Agreed price is $6K provided they have Diamond drivers. Buying used high end equipment makes me nervous, always have bought only new. Again, can serial numbers tell me anything?
post #9312 of 17995
I do not know serial numbers but there are 2 possible confusers. There is the 803s which is a contemporary of the 803D (not the Diamond):


and the predecessor 803N:


but, of course, with these, you could just count the woofers.
post #9313 of 17995
Kal,
Just found a Home Theater review posted in Oct. 2005
http://www.hometheater.com/content/b...speaker-system
talking about the 803D having Diamond tweeters and the picture looks a whole lot like most of the 803D's advertised for sale. So, like buying a new moving magnet cartridge, I just won't know until its mounted on my turntable. Reading your adventure of moving up the B&W line gave me the courage to take this plunge. Again, thanks for your help and maybe someday I can reply intelligently to one of your questions. My audio passion started in 1974 with my first Kenwood receiver, then into the audio sales & installation industry to pay my way thru college, and now that our two children are adults and no longer tie up my 60" Kuro watching whatever, my audio investments are resuming.
post #9314 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeh911 View Post

Thanks for the quick reply. Kal you are a hoot, count the drivers....

From the looks of the image on Audiogon
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....-W-803D-CHERRY
they do not look like current Diamond model, but its impossible for me to tell if they have Diamond tweeter. Agreed price is $6K provided they have Diamond drivers. Buying used high end equipment makes me nervous, always have bought only new. Again, can serial numbers tell me anything?

Yes, those speakers in the ad look like 803D's. The pic in the ad is low res, but the tweeter looks white and matte, which would indicate that the tweeter is man-made diamond. The aluminum tweeter in the 803N would look silver and shiny.

Fun fact: the B&W man-made diamond tweeter diaphragm is actually a burnt black color, but they plate it with a thin layer of rhodium or platinum (I can't remember which) to make it look more appealing and diamond-like.
post #9315 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

No. I really missed that but I added a smiley to my post to suggest that I hadn't.

Actually, I didn't know that the 803S only had two woofers, so that very well may have been a 803S in the pic I posted. So I thought the 803S was an 804N and you thought the 803S was the 803D, but nether look quite like an 803 Diamond. Whose on first?
post #9316 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeh911 View Post

Thanks for the quick reply. Kal you are a hoot, count the drivers....

From the looks of the image on Audiogon
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....-W-803D-CHERRY
they do not look like current Diamond model, but its impossible for me to tell if they have Diamond tweeter. Agreed price is $6K provided they have Diamond drivers. Buying used high end equipment makes me nervous, always have bought only new. Again, can serial numbers tell me anything?

I just looked at the ad again and saw this:





What some people will do to squeeze high-end gear into there rooms is remarkable.

I thought I was bad.

(I'm guessing that he is selling the speakers because he could never get the mids and the highs to sound quite right.)
post #9317 of 17995
greetings to all as this my first post

are therefore a good buy these speakers ?
or for that price we can purchase more !!

thanks for you advice

ps
sorry for my english
post #9318 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Actually, I didn't know that the 803S only had two woofers, so that very well may have been a 803S in the pic I posted. So I thought the 803S was an 804N and you thought the 803S was the 803D, but nether look quite like an 803 Diamond. Whose on first?

That pic is mine and is a 804S on the left and a 804Diamond on the right Photoshopped to have a third woofer. Anyway, that ad on Audiogon is the old 803D with diamond tweeters.
post #9319 of 17995
Friedns, Looking for some suggestions on B&W CM series....How better it is then 600? in particularly 683 vs CM8 vs CM9.....Are they worth the $$$
post #9320 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by pda_lover View Post

Friedns, Looking for some suggestions on B&W CM series....How better it is then 600? in particularly 683 vs CM8 vs CM9.....Are they worth the $$$

The CM offers greater refinement and clarity over the 600 series.
post #9321 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

I just looked at the ad again and saw this:





What some people will do to squeeze high-end gear into there rooms is remarkable.

I thought I was bad.

(I'm guessing that he is selling the speakers because he could never get the mids and the highs to sound quite right.)

In Taiwan and Hong Kong you can come across all sorts of of weird speaker positioning, as these strange configurations are determined by the interior designers or those snake oil "AV consultants". I have seen B&W diamond towers hidden in cabinets with holes in the corresponding driver levels to let the sound out ...

But no, they will not notice the problems since those relying on the designers/AV consultants here are rarely enthusiastic on the sound quality, and they buy expensive colossal speakers mainly to impress the guests. So these weird configurations usually happen on the heavily advertised and popular brands - these speaker owners just open an AV magazine and tell the designers "hey they look beautiful, order them for me regardless of the price!"
post #9322 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by pda_lover View Post

Friedns, Looking for some suggestions on B&W CM series....How better it is then 600? in particularly 683 vs CM8 vs CM9.....Are they worth the $$$

pda_lover,

I can only speak to the CM5 vs 685, as that's what I was looking for and listened to this past Saturday. To my ears... and let me point out that I'm 62... the CM5 definitely sounded clearer, especially in the mid-range. But, I can't say that it's worth it to me to pay $1499.98/pr vs $649.98/pr, respectively. The specs are darn near the same, too. I'm sold on the 685's. But, you should go listen to them yourself.

Ed
post #9323 of 17995
What surrounds are people matching with something like an 802 currently? The ds3 is the only more flush wall mount speaker in production aside from the in walls and fpm. All if those options though are much lower level than the diamond series. I'd love to use 805 for height and surround but they are big. They will stick out from the wall pretty far and be a hazard on the sides of even a good sized theater room.
post #9324 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post

What surrounds are people matching with something like an 802 currently? The ds3 is the only more flush wall mount speaker in production aside from the in walls and fpm. All if those options though are much lower level than the diamond series. I'd love to use 805 for height and surround but they are big. They will stick out from the wall pretty far and be a hazard on the sides of even a good sized theater room.

Find a pair of SCMS or SCM1's. You won't get Diamond technology but will get very, very nice surrounds. It takes a bit of time to find a good used pair.
post #9325 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post

What surrounds are people matching with something like an 802 currently? The ds3 is the only more flush wall mount speaker in production aside from the in walls and fpm. All if those options though are much lower level than the diamond series. I'd love to use 805 for height and surround but they are big. They will stick out from the wall pretty far and be a hazard on the sides of even a good sized theater room.

I'm going through the same delimmea. My choices will be between the 804 Diamonds, 803 Diamonds or if the stars, moon, planets etc. align the another pair of 802 Diamonds (I absolutely love the look of the 802 and 800). I have recieved very good advice and recommendations to go with either the 804 Diamonds or 803 Diamonds.

As for your surrounds, if it's a mounted speaker you want or a true dedicated surround speaker then SeattleHTGuy's advice is very wise. Another one to consider from the previous 800 series is the D8S (I think that's what is was called).

Down the road I would love to venture into heights and would love for those to be 805 Diamonds but with height channels being such a new technology and very little reports from people trying it there would have to be a very good proven acoustical reward before I would use 805 Diamonds.

Rod
post #9326 of 17995
Sucks to have to buy old used models... I am embarking on a custom home build and it's looking likely that we will do a dedicated theater. I have a set of cdm-nt (9nt, cnt, snt) with an asw2500 sub, but I only have the 5.1 channel set.

I intend to stick with B&W throughout the house. I have loved the cdm. My goal is to get into the 800 diamond series in the theater with a 9 channel setup, but that's probably a long term goal given the price and everything else there will be to spend money on. So I'll likely stick with the cdm series I have initially and work my way up.

I'm hoping to see the mini theater line updated for living room audio as well as maybe another zone or two as well.

Rod, can you expand on the advice about choosing the 803/804 over the 802?
post #9327 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post

Sucks to have to buy old used models... I am embarking on a custom home build and it's looking likely that we will do a dedicated theater. I have a set of cdm-nt (9nt, cnt, snt) with an asw2500 sub, but I only have the 5.1 channel set.

I intend to stick with B&W throughout the house. I have loved the cdm. My goal is to get into the 800 diamond series in the theater with a 9 channel setup, but that's probably a long term goal given the price and everything else there will be to spend money on. So I'll likely stick with the cdm series I have initially and work my way up.

I'm hoping to see the mini theater line updated for living room audio as well as maybe another zone or two as well.

Rod, can you expand on the advice about choosing the 803/804 over the 802?

Sure, the first thing about the 804 was the price, they are $2500 cheaper than the 803 and well, a lot cheaper than the 802 You can basically get 2 pairs of 804s for the price of the 802s and since I will be getting 2 pairs of surrounds this was highly recommended by others. The second in favor of the 804 over the 803 in particular was size, it takes up less space. The third was some people find that the 803 needs a fair bit of breathing space, if not it can become boomy with it's 3 7" bass drivers. I was concerned that the 804 would be outperformed by the HTM2 Diamond due to the center's dual 7" bass drivers vs the 804 two 6.5" drivers and lower power handling capabilities but the consensus was that the 804 will blend very well with the HTM2 Diamond and hold it's own.

Those recommending the 803 do so because of it's frequency response, especially the bass extension is almost as low as the 802 so if you are like me and use custom crossover settings matching a speaker's capabilities then it can be set to the same setting as the 802. The 803 is also higher than the 804 so if having a speaker's tweeter clear the back of a sofa or chair becomes important then this is a good choice. The 804 is quite a bit shorter, like 5 inches I think. Aesthetically the 804 can look out of place due to their shorter size especially when in relative proximity to the 802s.

As for the 802s, the consensus was they are overkill for surrounds, basically if you have the money, room and no other pressing priorities go for it but don't feel a need to.
post #9328 of 17995
Need some help figuring out if this setup will play well together:

I'm planning to get a pair of PM1s and use them as the mains for HT/Music system in a NY apartment, so won't really be putting them to the test. I'll match them with an HTM4 for the center (Q: is this the best match?) and probably just go with M1s for the rears (Q: are these sufficient as rears in a small room?). I've got a Velodyne HGS-10 that should give me plenty of bass with the space I have. I'm powering just with a Denon 3312CI (don't need tons of power - would prefer to go with Rotel but really need the functionality built into the Denon AVR) - Q: will i get good sound from the PM1s with this amp or should I look at other options? Trying to stay around 1000 on the amp.

I appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. Many thanks,

Mike
post #9329 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

I'm going through the same delimmea. My choices will be between the 804 Diamonds, 803 Diamonds or if the stars, moon, planets etc. align the another pair of 802 Diamonds (I absolutely love the look of the 802 and 800). I have recieved very good advice and recommendations to go with either the 804 Diamonds or 803 Diamonds.

To me it's between the 804 D & the 802 D.

I think the 803 D & 804 D are just too close, and will sound almost identical, so the price difference favors the 804 D.

I also think the 802 D & 800 D are extremely close and will sound almost identical.

Obviously, the difference will be the slightly more bass extension of the 800 over the 802 and the 803 over the 804.

But if you are going to use subwoofers, the bass extension difference will be insignificant.

So IMO, it's between the 804 D & 802 D.

I'm going for the 802 D myself.

I also own the Revel Salon2, but I think the 802 D & 800 D look much more beautiful.

Let the stars align!
post #9330 of 17995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post


I'm going through the same delimmea. My choices will be between the 804 Diamonds, 803 Diamonds or if the stars, moon, planets etc. align the another pair of 802 Diamonds (I absolutely love the look of the 802 and 800). I have recieved very good advice and recommendations to go with either the 804 Diamonds or 803 Diamonds.

As for your surrounds, if it's a mounted speaker you want or a true dedicated surround speaker then SeattleHTGuy's advice is very wise. Another one to consider from the previous 800 series is the D8S (I think that's what is was called).

Down the road I would love to venture into heights and would love for those to be 805 Diamonds but with height channels being such a new technology and very little reports from people trying it there would have to be a very good proven acoustical reward before I would use 805 Diamonds.

Rod

Rod

I have the new 802, 803, and 805 Diamonds in my current setup, and beyond the white elephant in the room (budget), I'll contribute that the 802's are superior to the 803's in bass extension (moreso than the specs might lead you to believe), midrange, soundstage, and overall tonal balance. Perhaps the much larger and more inert cabinet of the 802 contributes to some of these qualities, and perhaps there are crossover difference between the two. But the spherical marlan head must contributes to the focus and clarity of the midrange, and even higher frequencies, qualities I experienced in my 802/803 comparative listening (perhaps higher frequencies reflect differently atop the sphere than the flatter sloped top of the 803's?...)

Having said this, the differences are most apparent listening to two channel music, which I do with the 802's set as full range speakers. When the 803's were my mains, it was a great experience too, but not the same as the 802's, and I sought to incorporate a sub for music listening at times

I can only imagine the 800's...

Crossing over to subs for ht use negates some of those benefits, though I still appreciate the presentation of the midrange and higher frequencies in the 802's even in that environment. There is a live, visceral feel from the 802's that still give a Chris Matthews-esgue tingle up the leg after several months of ownership...

The 803's are likely overkill for side surrounds however, and I may sell them for a second set of 805's, freeing up some money for future endeavors...
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