The Master List of DVD, HD-DVD & Blu-ray Movies with BASS Thread...With WaterFalls - Page 142

Well I know that audio mastering varies greatly, and I agree that some movies sound much better than others. But I would put that down to the mastering as a whole, and not just the LFE. Personally, I don’t really tend to notice the LFE much.

I see the subwoofer like the timpani in an orchestra. The enjoyment of listening to the music comes from all the other instuments playing the actual tune. The only role of the timpani is to make rumbling/banging noises to give the music some “oomph”, but essentially the timpani is just a one-trick pony and there’s little scope for it to excel. Which is how I see the subwoofer.


My subwoofer is a Canton AS40SC. Could that be my problem?

I'm don't have any practical experience with your sub, but the specs looks like it should get the job done. There are other things to consider as well, like room size. If you have a larger room I'm guessing that sub may be too small and a little underpowered to have the output needed to have the affect people in this forum are looking for.

I think your analogy is right on though. The sub really only serves two purposes. It will handle the bass frequencies under a certain point determined where you set your crossover, and the LFE track. Assuming you use the "sub out" on the back of your receiver and not the line level outs from your speakers.

Other things to consider.

Movie preference: You will find heavy LFE tracks mostly on action, sci-fi, horror movies, and the like.

How you have your sub calibrated: Most people in this forum prefer loud bass for that extra impact. Bass-junkies, some of them.

How loud do you listen to a movie: A "properly calibrated sub" will not put out a lot of bass when listening at normal or lower levels.


Having said that, this thread pretty much serves itself as a pusher to the bass junkie. The movies listed here have the capability to shake things in your room and remove things hanging from your walls. Some people prefer it well other do not. If it's what you prefer you can get your fix here. Proceed with caution, though. It's a lot like meth. If you find you like it you will run out and start spending your hard earned cash on bigger and better subwoofers.

I've gone through no less than $6000 in subs in 2 years.

I REALLY hope these captivators with 1200w each cap give me the fix I need

I agree with what Matt stated above, but it also sounds like you are a music man more than a movie man. Your analogies refer to music and live performances. With music (well most) the bass tracks are there to "support" the mid and higher frequency. In movies (well most), the sub has it's own track and is generally recorded to "add" to the movie as much as support the rest of the frequencies. Producers, most of the time, have to 'add' low frequencies to the audio track specifically for the sub output of your receiver. Case in point would be most animated movies (ie Monsters Inc, Finding Nemo, 9, etc.) The bass that you hear (and most of the rest of the audio tracks) in those movies are generated and not actual sounds. With the freedom of 5.1 or 7.1 individual channels on a movie soundtrack, the engineer has a lot of freedom. With the movies in this thread the engineer has generally spent more time and effort on the '.1' channel to emphasize the lower register.

Hope that makes sense.

dbl

My room is 3.5m (11ft) square. I move house quite regularly, but that's about the typical size of my computer/movie room.


Yes, I do that.


That sounds like my movie collection (with the exception of horror).


Not entirely sure how much of a bass-junky I am. I do have my amp set to output LFE from both the sub and front speakers, because music sounds meatier that way.

But I wouldn't want the sub to be any louder than it's supposed to be. I let my amp automatically set the volume of the sub, which seems well-balanced with the other speakers. I've read several times on forums that if you can hear the subwoofer blaring then it's set too loud; that a subwoofer is supposed to blend in with the other speakers and not stand out.


I generally have my amp set between around -35db and -25db, turning it up as far as -15db on rare occasions. Although this is just what my amp says, and obviously isn't real volume. I would say I keep the volume fairly moderate. I certainly wouldn't want the neighbours to be able to hear it through the wall.


Good heavens!

When I'm watching a film at my very loudest, the volume is probably about the same as a quiet movie theatre (in terms of listener perception). I find loud movie theatres borderline painful, and wouldn't want to recreate that in my home.

Besides, I've never had the luxury of living far away enough from other people to be able to have speakers blaring. Even when I've lived in detached houses, the neighbours are only a few metres away.

I live in the UK though. I think houses might be more spaced apart in the US perhaps? What sort of places do you all live?


Hmmm. I'm probably better not even starting down that route then.

Well, I only used a musical analogy for the purposes of an analogy. I was trying to make a point about movies!

Having said that, I listen to way more music than I watch movies. Actually, I hardly ever watch movies, and my collection is quite small. That’s not to say my movie-watching isn’t important though. I bought my amp and speakers primarily to enhance my movie-watching experience (which they certainly did).


Yes, it does; thanks. The only thing I’m saying is that no matter how much time and effort the engineer puts into the LFE channel, at the end of the day it’s only a bunch of deep rumbling and banging noises. I don’t really notice or care about those noises. It’s all the other higher frequencies that engage me.

For example, if there’s a nice meaty laser sound effect in Star Wars, there might be loads of deep LFE rumbling within that noise, but for me it’s the higher-pitched frequencies that really bring the noise to life; punctuating it, and making it crisp (as well as the 7-speaker surround to give added dimension). If you only heard the LFE alone without the higher frequencies, you would just hear a bit of rumbling, and most noises would sound the same. So I would argue that the LFE, whilst important, depends on the higher frequencies to add definition and clarity.

I disagree. I think the timpani is there to add emotional emphasis to certain parts of the music and is therefore a crucial part of an orchestra. It may be a "one-trick-pony" but the trick it performs it very important.

A subwoofer is much, much more than a one-trick-pony. Yes, it can provide bombast to explosions and car wrecks and things like that, but it also conveys lots of important musical information as well as spatial information. A properly installed subwoofer enhances the viewing experience of any movie by providing added emotional impact.

I believe your sub should be fine for your room.
I have similar specs with my Hsu, VTF-1 in a slightly larger room.

I think you touched on a couple points.

You seem to have your system set up with a lower sub level to enjoy music they way it should be reproduced. The same can be said about movies. I believe the way a system should be calibrated actually has lower sub levels than most people prefer.

The other is having a bass/LFE mix in your front speakers. It shouldn't effect music as much, as there is no LFE in music, but when it comes to setting up your system for movies the recommend way is setting the speakers to "small" (even if you have tower speakers capable of lower frequencies) to get the proper mix the way the movie theaters and Dolby intended it to be heard.

This *may be* the reasons you don't notice the sub as much. IMO, this set up may be washing out what you should be hearing through the subwoofer.

I've tried this setup before because I prefer to have my sub in a "near field" position closer to my seating position rather than next to the front speakers. One downside to this is the sub becomes localized. Having the front speakers set to have a bass/LFE mix did fix that, but the mix of the movie soundtrack sounded a bit off to my ears so switched back.

Of course, preference plays a factor, but I say give it a shot (speakers set to small) next time you watch a move with some LFE in it. You may find that you "woke up" your subwoofer.


I think you'll find we are all very similar. Not everyone here (well, excluding everyone in this particular thread) will try and shake their foundations with high decibels, and not everyone has the luxury as well.

I live in an older neighborhood, kind of suburbian where the average lot size is 50x100 ft. I don't have to go very far to find houses with a lot more room in between houses. Mater of fact, it's a two family house. At one time I was the very professional and for the past 17 years would never do anything to upset my income, errr, oops... I mean my tenant. Now, I'm not renting it out so I can enjoy myself a bit more. Besides this loud hobby, I have one other. Part time musician. I'm currently entertaining the idea of relocating to a better location with a single family house.

Just watched The Collector had some real good bass. Was one of those "sleeper" rentals, kind of gory but actually I thought it was well made definitely not for the squeamish.

I think you won't be disappointed!

Edit- @Granddizzy, I live in a small apartment, with neighbors all around me. I am fortunate in that the building itself is made of stone and very well insulated so it does not bother the neighbors too much. At least, they are uncomplicated and don't complain (though I am sure with Cloverfield and Eragon they were tempted).
That being said, I can rarely enjoy movies at more than -20 (Denon 2309 + B&W 683 HT). That is really enough for my small apartment, and makes for a sweet viewing experience.

Like Matt said, once you put your mains on "small" and put the Low pass filter at 100 or 120, heck even at 80, and turn the volume on your sub up a bit, you will see a big difference. I have to keep my sub turned WAY down but you can still get some good bass even if it is turned down.

I live in Germany where Canton has a very good reputation, and though I am not familiar with your sub, I doubt it really gets down to 20HZ. But neither does mine (B&W ASW 610= MAYBE 27Hz at the lowest). You don't really need 20HZ to have a good LFE experience, though some may disagree with me here! Of course, if I had a stand-alone house, I would go with dual 18" subs, but for my current living space and music tastes, the little B&W is ideal. What I am trying to say is, your canton sub should give you a fine experience if you follow Matt's suggestions above.

Well, there’s no LFE channel in stereo music, but the music still contains the low frequencies. I set my amp to send LFE to both front & sub because the bass sounds a lot stronger coming from both.


Thanks, I have always set them to small anyway (although I can’t say I noticed any difference when I set them to large).

This *may be* the reasons you don't notice the sub as much. IMO, this set up may be washing out what you should be hearing through the subwoofer.


That seems very spacious. In England, most of us live in terraced or semi-detached houses, with each house/plot about 20ft wide. Your neighbour’s living room is typically right behind your living room wall. At the very most, you get about 10ft between houses.


I have crossover at 120Hz (default), but I’ve experimented with different settings and can’t really hear any difference between around 80Hz and 140Hz.

I don’t think I have a problem with hearing LFE. I just don’t really tend to notice it when I watch a movie. I enjoy the audio, but I enjoy it as a whole.

The few of you have valid points but you are in a thread that talks about bass in movies, reference bass. We are talking movies that have bass at all frequencies including the single digits of 3-9hz and lots of bass from 10-20hz so to say that you don't notice a difference or so it is because your subs don't go down that low. Oh, bass can be articulate and accurate with subwoofers, you just need the right ones.

Mixed with the right movies. That's what this thread is all about.


Dizzy,

You hit on a couple of other things in your replies.

1) You mentioned the term 'muddy'. I think that with a properly setup system (like MK's for example) your low frequency performance wouldn't sound muddy if you had the system (and room) set-up properly. Not saying you don't. In your case, I believe that you are not a 'bass fanatic' as are most, if not all, others in this particular thread. Don't get me wrong, your system probably sounds excellent.

Which brings me to number 2. Point number 2 not 'brown note' number 2.

2) Reference levels, the type of bass we (most in this thread) prefer and strive to achieve. MK mentions several times in his reviews of his various subwoofer set-ups that he can feel his hair moving. That's an example of pressurizing the room. He at one time was running 8 (yes 8) 18" properly calibrated subwoofers. That's moving a TON of air in his room. He now has dual DTS-10's that he claims similar output. Just click on his link below any of his posts to see his set-up. For the 'freaks' in here, we prefer that "hit you in the chest" or "pressurize the room" type bass. It doesn't sound as if you like that level (volume) of audio. That's not a slam, it's just a preference.

The most important thing to keep in mind is, once you start messing around and digging deeper into the world of 'better' audio or video, it's a long, and some times expensive road. When I first started learning about properly calibrating my projector, I couldn't 'enjoy' a movie the same again. I was constantly watching for 'errors' in my calibration instead of watching the movie. I've learned to 'deal' with it these days, but it took a while. It's the same with the audio end of things. A lot of people are striving for a complete flat frequency response in their rooms from 5Hz to 30kHz. The most important thing is how it looks and sounds to YOU. It's your theater, if you enjoy listening the music or watching movies in there, then mission accomplished. It's the "the grass is always greener" that seems to be hooking us in this world of audio/video. Man is MK's grass green in his theater!


dbl

I am changing things again. It never ends but make no mistake, I enjoy my theater more than most. I like to tweak as they call it.

My sub only goes down to 25-28 Hz at the lowest and I notice a HUGE difference with the movies on this list. I think it has more to do with his setup/placement/room acoustics than his subwoofer, which is from a respected manufacturer (though I don't know the sub he has). Of course I am missing the 3-25 Hz range bass, but I live in an apartment, so that is unrealistic for me to aim for anyway.

Heck, even with my HTIB that I had before I upgraded, I noticed with that ultra crappy sub just how awesome the Incredible Hulk was in the bass department (though in comparison to what I have now it sounded very bad).

Better (the best!) subs will of course deliver a much more satisfying experience when viewing movies on this list, but it is not a prerequisite in my opinion.

So what Dizzy is saying is that bass is meaningless in music as well?? I play bass and to say that bass/subs are one note/trick ponies is ridiculous...sorry! Music without bass isn't music neither are action/thriller movies movies without bass.

ERAGON is one of the biggest ripoff movies ever...the whole climactic battle buildup rips off LOTR TWO TOWERS! From the music to the tower speech from the goon in the movie...ack don't remind of that poop film!

Cloverfield sucks too, but the films are on this list because of bass not whether or not the films are good. Eragon belongs on the list because the LFE is excellent. Personally though, I liked the film all comparisons aside.

dbldare, thanks for the info

I definitely don’t think I am a bass freak. I don’t want to feel my hairs being moved by bass. I just want my speaker system to sound as good as it can be, which, for me, means setting the levels as close to standard settings as possible, to ensure the sound in my room is exactly as the engineers intended it to sound on their testing rig.

I do get a massive kick from the LFE on my system, but only in conjunction with the other frequencies. To me, it’s the combination that thrills me, not just the bass.

Saw Death Race last night. Holy crap...forgot how much bass there is in this...my THT ripped the house apart...check some serious sub 20hz stuff well worth the rent....!!

+1

I liked the movie and the bass was awesome!

Yup, it was sick and it includes some of most demanding bass scenes(especially one pretty long subsonic scene), i have ever seen in any movie.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...ohellchap3.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...droomchap5.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...ttempchap5.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...gharmchap6.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...tairschap6.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...asterchap8.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...idingchap8.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...zymanchap8.jpg

escape from witch mountain has good bass as well.

THANK! U for posting some charts LFE...this discussion was drifting wayyy of course! Tom Hanks agrees with me!

Universal Soldier Regeneration:

4.5 stars for Bass.

It's a little cooked, ala Hot Fuzz, yet it really works for this movie.

Oh, and the opening scene is Cool with Bass! That scene has some of The Best automatic gunfire I have ever heard and felt.


Tim

Hmmm. Was going to watch it but might wait till the second captivator comes

Really?! Better than the gunfight battle in the movie Heat? That scene alone is worth getting the BD.

From a feel the Bass perspective, yes. You just gotta experience it.

That scene in Heat though is certainly a favorite for the ferocity alone.


Tim

This sucks. I watched "INSIDE" and "The Collector" on my computer. Atleast theyre both great movies so i can rewatch for the LFE. Also check out "MARTYRS" and "GROTESQUE" if you liked those movies. Real twisted stuff. Aside from a few gems like "The Collecter" and a few others from the US, the foreign horror films are where its at in my book. Im ashamed at myself for watching these movies on my computer and missing out on the LFE. Just in the past i havent found many if any horror films with good LFE.

Other than good LFE how was the "Universal Soldier Regeneration"? The last jean claude van damme flick i tried to watch i quickly shut it down due to horrible acting and directing just a bad experience in all haha. I think it was called "JCVD" or something to that effect.

Universal soldier was a very good movie.

Not that I would call it a horror movie, but The Haunting DTS version is ranked pretty high for low end "goodness".


dbl