The Master List of DVD, HD-DVD & Blu-ray Movies with BASS Thread...With WaterFalls - Page 176

Originally Posted by shadyJ

seriously? You can even tell a difference?

Originally Posted by Gary J

He has 10k+ in audio. That's about what it takes.

Originally Posted by allredp

+1

I can tell when switching back and forth... as I could between SD's DTS and DD iterations.

It's not just the kool-aid, there's a nice difference IMHO.

Originally Posted by Gary J

These people were hard pressed to hear a difference even in the high end labs that produced them, let alone "dramatic".

"The shocker came when we compared the lower 448 kbps Dolby Digital DVD bitrate to the original. There was an audible difference, but it was only ever-so-slightly noticeable (and this is with a high end audio system in an acoustically controlled environment that is so far beyond what typical home theater systems are capable of resolving)."

Originally Posted by croseiv

I've seen that article many times. But I can tell a difference, especially in the LFE department, between lossy and lossless. However, the differences are generally subtle (not dramatic). on the move tracks that I have where I can compare them.

Originally Posted by Gary J

These people were hard pressed to hear a difference even in the high end labs that produced them, let alone "dramatic".

"The shocker came when we compared the lower 448 kbps Dolby Digital DVD bitrate to the original. There was an audible difference, but it was only ever-so-slightly noticeable (and this is with a high end audio system in an acoustically controlled environment that is so far beyond what typical home theater systems are capable of resolving)."

Originally Posted by croseiv

I've seen that article many times. But I can tell a difference, especially in the LFE department, between lossy and lossless. However, the differences are generally subtle (not dramatic). on the move tracks that I have where I can compare them.

Originally Posted by FilmMixer

Not to open this can of worms again...

But until you've done a proper A/B level matched test, you aren't really "hearing the difference..."

You might prefer it (and in this day and age, there is no reason to not have a lossless encode) but that doesn't mean you'd reliably be able to pick out the master vs. lossless vs. lossy when all things are equal (including the master, dialog normalization and most importantly, level).

In addition, the placebo of knowing what you are listening to is way too powerful...

And remember these tests were performed at the respective companies, in tuned and calibrated rooms.. while they may have been trying to prove the superiority of their respective lossy codecs, these tests, and those I've been involved in, produce almost unanimous results.... that unless you created/mixed the material yourself, a high bit rate lossy codec (i.e. 640k DD or 1509 DTS) will be very difficult to pick out most of the time over the master.

And in regards to LFE, this is the area least touched by encoders in terms of data reduction... what is done to the signal by the encoder (i.e. roll off, crossover, filtering) is another matter...

I have a long standing offer:

Come visit me on my mixing stage in Hollywood... if you can reliably pick out the lossy DD encode vs. the master (I'll make the percentage 50% of the time) theres a Mortons steak dinner in it for you..

This, of course, is only my opinion, and I am in no way being dismissive of anybody else's... in this day and age, almost all Blu Ray material is lossless, as is D-Cinema (which is exponentially growing in it's adoption...)

As a mixer, I am happy to move away from lossy encodes on our theatrical presentations (and they are, in regards to DTS and Dolby, much more of a compromise that what is available even on DVD...)

It's just, in my experience, a conclusion most make with any kind of objective conditions or circumstances, but a highly subjective one, clouded by the rationale that lossless must sound better.

Originally Posted by croseiv

How many of us can compare to the original master? I'm saying that I can hear a difference between the DD 5.1 tracks vs True HD tracks of movies where I have both in hand (and DTS vs DTS HD). I'm not saying I am comparing it to the master. Also, my claim is HIGHLY subjective...

Originally Posted by allredp

+1

Interesting you mention the LFE dept., because that is where my SubMersive reveals a bit of difference for me too. Lossy tracks seem very slightly fat and thick (which some people may prefer) in comparison to lossless.

Originally Posted by Gary J

TrueHD = Master.

Originally Posted by Gary J

So I think it's safe to say dramatic is hyperbole.

Originally Posted by croseiv

Theoretically, but to me Master=original studio recording.

Originally Posted by croseiv

Tell that to the guy who actually said it (not me LOL).

Originally Posted by FilmMixer

Not to open this can of worms again...

But until you've done a proper A/B level matched test, you aren't really "hearing the difference..."

You might prefer it (and in this day and age, there is no reason to not have a lossless encode) but that doesn't mean you'd reliably be able to pick out the master vs. lossless vs. lossy when all things are equal (including the master, dialog normalization and most importantly, level).

In addition, the placebo of knowing what you are listening to is way too powerful...

And remember these tests were performed at the respective companies, in tuned and calibrated rooms.. while they may have been trying to prove the superiority of their respective lossy codecs, these tests, and those I've been involved in, produce almost unanimous results.... that unless you created/mixed the material yourself, a high bit rate lossy codec (i.e. 640k DD or 1509 DTS) will be very difficult to pick out most of the time over the master.

And in regards to LFE, this is the area least touched by encoders in terms of data reduction... what is done to the signal by the encoder (i.e. roll off, crossover, filtering) is another matter...

I have a long standing offer:

Come visit me on my mixing stage in Hollywood... if you can reliably pick out the lossy DD encode vs. the master (I'll make the percentage 50% of the time) theres a Mortons steak dinner in it for you..

This, of course, is only my opinion, and I am in no way being dismissive of anybody else's... in this day and age, almost all Blu Ray material is lossless, as is D-Cinema (which is exponentially growing in it's adoption...)

As a mixer, I am happy to move away from lossy encodes on our theatrical presentations (and they are, in regards to DTS and Dolby, much more of a compromise that what is available even on DVD...)

It's just, in my experience, a conclusion most make with any kind of objective conditions or circumstances, but a highly subjective one, clouded by the rationale that lossless must sound better.

Originally Posted by [KYA]Mega

Now, back on-topic:

I watched Despicable Me today on DVD (kid's friend brought it over, so I had no choice of format) and it had some really low bass. The kind that pressurizes the room more than you hear. I snapped up the Blu-ray for it when I was out today, but it's going under the tree, so no telling when we'll watch it... but the lossy track sounded amazing.

Originally Posted by septim

Anyone else feel that the bass in Inception was overpowering the rest of the track? Watching it with my typical volume setting worked for the dialogue, but the action scenes were making my walls groan pretty bad. I turned down the amp for my subs but it still seems way out of wack.

-25 for the talky scenes seems just right, but if it's higher than -30 for the action stuff it's just way way way too oppressive. (and I enjoy bass)

Am I nuts?

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

Re the bass in Inception, I didn't feel it was overpowering the rest of the track either.

Originally Posted by allredp

+1 - other than lacking the ULF, that track rocks. However, many have noted in the dedicated thread that the bass is "weird" or "unexpected" in the way it was executed. Obviously the movie takes place in a dreamscape so the sounds would be expected to be a little "different."

Originally Posted by Toe


How is the new Resident Evil for LFE? Some good early comments over in the blu ray forum/3d forum for sound!