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Epson 810 Thread -- all Epson 810 discussion here . . . - Page 7

post #181 of 1647
Also, the 810 has a vastly more expensive lense than the 400, which is one of the most important pieces, so I would hope the difference would be pretty large. (That doesn't mean I would be able to notice it though, I'd like to see a side by side review also)
post #182 of 1647
TW600 vs. TW700 or (800 vs. 810 depending on your location)

I witnessed the 1st TW700 available in Singapore. It has arrived 4 days ago in the one shop that is selling it at this point of time. This shop is also the last shop I found selling an old stock of TW600.

I managed to review both units one after the other in the shop. We played LOTR, Return of the King in plain old DVD. It was in a light controled room (black walls but light colored ceiling and quite a few HiFi devices to reflect some light). Projection was on a 16:9 100" white mat screen with a gain of 1. We were using a Denon 2930 connected through HDMI, upscaling in 1080i. I watch at around 12 feet and as close as 4 feet. I did not managed to know which level of calibration was done. The TW600 units had its keystone dialed on +3! I do not mean that they were trying to give a cleaner image to the TW700 but well I have some doubt anyway.

After removing the keystone adjustment I found that image quality were not words apart. Blacks on the 700 are slightly darker but I did not notice major differences in term of shadow details. I did not have the time to notice how the irises perform. The 700 is sharper, no doubt about it and it has more depth. 3D effects can be very impressive on selected scenes. The TW600 does achieve this level but is quite impressive in its all rights.

I have not noticed any video noise, VB or SD. May be I am very tolerant to VB. I was able to watch the picture at less than 10 feet without noticing it. I have not noticed any problem with shading. The TW600 had 54 hours on the bulb and the 700 could only have less than that.

I have not found any difference between the 2 projectors in term of brightness when using similar settings. The brightness is good enough in brighter modes to project a nice image despite some ambiant light. IMHO, "dynamic" and "living room" modes are not suitable at all for movie watching but should do fine for sports events.

To me, the main difference between the 2 units is the zoom capabilities on the TW700.

The price difference was close to US$600 between the 2 units. I decided to go for the TW600 has I could not justify the price difference for the TW700. This choice was based on the following point:
1- I do not have a dedicated dark room, only a light colored wall living room with limited light control even though I have BOC on all windows, therefore, I am not likely to benefit from the improve CR.
2- The zoom lens on the TW600 is good enough for my setup
3- I plan to use DIY anamorphic prisms for a CIH 2.35 screen. This should be the bottleneck for the total system sharpness. The better lens on the TW700 may be waisted.
4- There very few TW700 units available at this point of time and I suspect possible quality issue at production start. On the other end, the TW600 has been produced for a year ans should be stable.
5- If it breaks down, I may very well get a TW700 anyway (this has already been reported on another foreign forum).
6- showing some financial responsability to the significant other in order to ease the negotiation of the next upgrade in 3 to 4 years time when full HD will have become affordable, standardized and debugged. That won't be easy anyway... 10 years that we have been watching movies on the same 21" CRT! LOL

I bought the TW600 on the spot at a nice price and happily drove back home tonight with my Precious. This is our first home projector and my wife was quite impressed when I fired it up on our bare wall feeding composite video in PAL direct from the digital cable box. Can't wait to plug my PC through DVI and send some HD content! Have to go ;-)
post #183 of 1647
the tw700 has a way larger zoomrange so it can be rearshelved in most cases, the tw600 was unable to do that for me, that's why i'm buying the 700
post #184 of 1647
Quote:
Originally Posted by daffeh View Post

any of you 810/TW700 owners that wants to try and throw me an image from +- 5m that is about 2m30 wide? ^^

Still not sure it can do that?

ps: i'm from belgium and the pj is nowhere to be found, but in our neighbour country "the netherlands" it's available fro about 1380 (1500 with isf) so that's below the Z5 and on par to the AX100.
So i guess im taking a trip to our neigbours (belgium is only about 150miles wide so that will take about 3 hours) if the epson can throw me this image

I'm stationed in the Netherlands. Where in the Netherlands is it available?
post #185 of 1647
Quote:


the tw700 has a way larger zoomrange so it can be rearshelved in most cases, the tw600 was unable to do that for me, that's why i'm buying the 700

My screen is 1.25 meter (50") high and my projector is on a back shelve with the lens at 4.4 meter (14'4") from the screen. It is just nice for me when using the zoom methode for CIH. I am using almost all the zoom range when I go from 16:9 to 2.35:1. A slightly deeper room would have decided for the TW700. I rent my appartment and do not want to ceiling mount the projector.
post #186 of 1647
yep, but my lens would be around 5m for an image of max 2m30 wide, only the Z4 and AE900 (now Z5 & AX100) could do that. Now that epson does it too...

Just looking for a decent reseller around here
post #187 of 1647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alain Singapore View Post

TW600 vs. TW700 or (800 vs. 810 depending on your location)

I witnessed the 1st TW700 available in Singapore. It has arrived 4 days ago in the one shop that is selling it at this point of time. This shop is also the last shop I found selling an old stock of TW600.

I managed to review both units one after the other in the shop. We played LOTR, Return of the King in plain old DVD. It was in a light controled room (black walls but light colored ceiling and quite a few HiFi devices to reflect some light). Projection was on a 16:9 100" white mat screen with a gain of 1. We were using a Denon 2930 connected through HDMI, upscaling in 1080i. I watch at around 12 feet and as close as 4 feet. I did not managed to know which level of calibration was done. The TW600 units had its keystone dialed on +3! I do not mean that they were trying to give a cleaner image to the TW700 but well I have some doubt anyway.

After removing the keystone adjustment I found that image quality were not words apart. Blacks on the 700 are slightly darker but I did not notice major differences in term of shadow details. I did not have the time to notice how the irises perform. The 700 is sharper, no doubt about it and it has more depth. 3D effects can be very impressive on selected scenes. The TW600 does achieve this level but is quite impressive in its all rights.

I have not noticed any video noise, VB or SD. May be I am very tolerant to VB. I was able to watch the picture at less than 10 feet without noticing it. I have not noticed any problem with shading. The TW600 had 54 hours on the bulb and the 700 could only have less than that.

I have not found any difference between the 2 projectors in term of brightness when using similar settings. The brightness is good enough in brighter modes to project a nice image despite some ambiant light. IMHO, "dynamic" and "living room" modes are not suitable at all for movie watching but should do fine for sports events.

To me, the main difference between the 2 units is the zoom capabilities on the TW700.

The price difference was close to US$600 between the 2 units. I decided to go for the TW600 has I could not justify the price difference for the TW700. This choice was based on the following point:
1- I do not have a dedicated dark room, only a light colored wall living room with limited light control even though I have BOC on all windows, therefore, I am not likely to benefit from the improve CR.
2- The zoom lens on the TW600 is good enough for my setup
3- I plan to use DIY anamorphic prisms for a CIH 2.35 screen. This should be the bottleneck for the total system sharpness. The better lens on the TW700 may be waisted.
4- There very few TW700 units available at this point of time and I suspect possible quality issue at production start. On the other end, the TW600 has been produced for a year ans should be stable.
5- If it breaks down, I may very well get a TW700 anyway (this has already been reported on another foreign forum).
6- showing some financial responsability to the significant other in order to ease the negotiation of the next upgrade in 3 to 4 years time when full HD will have become affordable, standardized and debugged. That won't be easy anyway... 10 years that we have been watching movies on the same 21" CRT! LOL

I bought the TW600 on the spot at a nice price and happily drove back home tonight with my Precious. This is our first home projector and my wife was quite impressed when I fired it up on our bare wall feeding composite video in PAL direct from the digital cable box. Can't wait to plug my PC through DVI and send some HD content! Have to go ;-)

I still can't decide if the TW700 is worth it to me yet when compared to the TW600. I can get the TW600 for $300 cheaper and for the small improvements... basically better optics and a nice lens, is it worth it?? It sounds like the TW600 is as bright and produces almost the same PQ compared to the 700.
post #188 of 1647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaffendorf View Post

I still can't decide if the TW700 is worth it to me yet when compared to the TW600. I can get the TW600 for $300 cheaper and for the small improvements... basically better optics and a nice lens, is it worth it?? It sounds like the TW600 is as bright and produces almost the same PQ compared to the 700.

For $300 it should be a no brainer.
post #189 of 1647
i'm confused here,

so epson's europe tw700 is the same model as epson's us 810 right?

but comparing the price over here in istanbul, Turkey, where electronics are always more expensive than us, panasonic ax100 is 1900 eur = 2500 usd and epson tw700 is somewhere between 1600-1700 eur which means around 2250 usd and which is cheaper than us price and panasonic ax100 here.

i'm getting confused, if epson tw700 is same as epson 810; we have a very good deal here in Turkey as epson 810 is rated more reliable and less problematic than ax100 even it's cheaper price.
post #190 of 1647
Yes it is and yes you do!

Here in Canada, we ALWAYS get bad deals on projectors.

Jonathan
post #191 of 1647
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliasGS View Post

i'm confused here,

so epson's europe tw700 is the same model as epson's us 810 right?

but comparing the price over here in istanbul, Turkey, where electronics are always more expensive than us, panasonic ax100 is 1900 eur = 2500 usd and epson tw700 is somewhere between 1600-1700 eur which means around 2250 usd and which is cheaper than us price and panasonic ax100 here.

i'm getting confused, if epson tw700 is same as epson 810; we have a very good deal here in Turkey as epson 810 is rated more reliable and less problematic than ax100 even it's cheaper price.

Wow. People in Turkey are into home theater too?
post #192 of 1647
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

Wow. People in Turkey are into home theater too?

you don't even know what we are into... i don't want to start a discussion here but try to learn the world little bit and improve your knowledge about other countries and then ask stupid questions like this. Turkey has some bad reputations in some cases and struggles to show it's true side as it is located at east europe and middle east but it's one of the few countries in the world that you enjoy being part of it in any areas. From my experiences especially when you live in istanbul life is so much fun than most of the cities in europe even in us and canada.
post #193 of 1647
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliasGS View Post

you don't even know what we are into... i don't want to start a discussion here but try to learn the world little bit and improve your knowledge about other countries and then ask stupid questions like this. Turkey has some bad reputations in some cases and struggles to show it's true side as it is located at east europe and middle east but it's one of the few countries in the world that you enjoy being part of it in any areas. From my experiences especially when you live in istanbul life is so much fun than most of the cities in europe even in us and canada.

No questions are stupid. Its just that very few people from Turkey post here.
post #194 of 1647
I have spent a few weeks in Turkey, in the early 90's, and it was AWESOME. Istanbul is incredible and SW Turkey is too beautiful. The people were very kind to me at the time as well, knowing I was a US citizen.
post #195 of 1647
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

No questions are stupid. Its just that very few people from Turkey post here.

However the point is a good one.

People from certain western countries believe they are far advanced from the rest of the world - ask why.
post #196 of 1647
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smegger View Post

However the point is a good one.

People from certain western countries believe they are far advanced from the rest of the world - ask why.


No, the point is bad. People don't believe that. Since we buy the vast bulk of our projectors from Japanese companies like Epson and Pansonic. So the far east most be far more advanced.
post #197 of 1647
Let's not go down that road guys, this type of discussion can get ugly very quickly.

For anybody in an area where the TW700 is less expensive than Panasonic or Sanyo it would be an excellent choice. I seriously think that if Epson got their pricing in line in North America it would have a much larger following.
post #198 of 1647
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

No questions are stupid. Its just that very few people from Turkey post here.

yep that's true but instead of surprised you sounded cocky or that's just me having hard work day full of stress. so if i overreacted it's my bad. sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smegger View Post

People from certain western countries believe they are far advanced from the rest of the world - ask why.

i'm far away believing that we are advanced in electronics but we are all here talking japaneese based projectors right?

i'd like to end this conversation here. let's focus on Epson 810

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smegger View Post

For anybody in an area where the TW700 is less expensive than Panasonic or Sanyo it would be an excellent choice. I seriously think that if Epson got their pricing in line in North America it would have a much larger following

so if that tw700 is same as procinema 810 we're going to have a good deal over here as you said. i was told that it'll be avaliable on the market at the end of december and little more expensive let's say 300 usd than tw600 which is tagged like 1800 usd. just wanted to make sure that we are discussing here is tw700
post #199 of 1647
I'm awaiting delivery of my Epson TW-700 (Cinema 810)

Reasons why I bought this:

Epson develops the LCD D5/D5+ panels which are featured in many competing 720P LCD projector. (Sanyo Z5, Panasonic Z5, their own in house projector)

Epson 2-year international warranty

As bright as the Panasonic AX100 (measured 2000 lumens)

Reports of less screen door effect, also no smooth screen like the Panasonic. I want sharpness.

Essentially it's takes all the good from the Sanyo Z5 (sharpness) and Panasonic AX100 (brightness) and combines it one package + warranty. It's makes it a no brainer choice for me.


Now deciding on the screen.



Good luck on everyone's decision.

I'll report back once I receive the unit.
Til then adios amigos!
post #200 of 1647
Quote:
Originally Posted by ea77 View Post

I'm awaiting delivery of my Epson TW-700 (Cinema 810)

Reasons why I bought this:

Epson develops the LCD D5/D5+ panels which are featured in many competing 720P LCD projector. (Sanyo Z5, Panasonic Z5, their own in house projector)

Epson 2-year international warranty

As bright as the Panasonic AX100 (measured 2000 lumens)

Reports of less screen door effect, also no smooth screen like the Panasonic. I want sharpness.

Essentially it's takes all the good from the Sanyo Z5 (sharpness) and Panasonic AX100 (brightness) and combines it one package + warranty. It's makes it a no brainer choice for me.


Now deciding on the screen.



Good luck on everyone's decision.

I'll report back once I receive the unit.
Til then adios amigos!

Good decision! I will be returning my Optoma HD6800 bundle next week..... and will be purchasing myself a brand new Epson TW-700.
post #201 of 1647
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ea77 View Post

I'm awaiting delivery of my Epson TW-700 (Cinema 810)

Reasons why I bought this:

Epson develops the LCD D5/D5+ panels which are featured in many competing 720P LCD projector. (Sanyo Z5, Panasonic Z5, their own in house projector)

Epson 2-year international warranty

As bright as the Panasonic AX100 (measured 2000 lumens)

Reports of less screen door effect, also no smooth screen like the Panasonic. I want sharpness.

Essentially it's takes all the good from the Sanyo Z5 (sharpness) and Panasonic AX100 (brightness) and combines it one package + warranty. It's makes it a no brainer choice for me.


Now deciding on the screen.



Good luck on everyone's decision.

I'll report back once I receive the unit.
Til then adios amigos!

Agreed. My only concern is how much better this is for less SDE than the Z5.

My seating is at 11 feet and can't really change. My screen can. Please report back on SDE and how many feet from screen it first appears and your screen diag and width size.

For screens, I would look at the Carada Brilliant White. I'll be buying one, the only question is what size (110 or 118). And that will depend on the SDE effect of this projector.
post #202 of 1647
I'm going to be using it on my 120'' White Elunevision.
post #203 of 1647
sitting 11' away, i wouldn't go bigger then 110
post #204 of 1647
i ducktaped the screens on the plain wall and according to me 106'' looks really big, i'd like to go with a 92'' as my seating distance is almost 12'' (340 cm). do you think will that be a loss and i should go with a 106'' screen? or i can at least throw the image on the plain wall and try both sizes. but i'd like to hear your experinces on this
post #205 of 1647
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliasGS View Post

i ducktaped the screens on the plain wall and according to me 106'' looks really big, i'd like to go with a 92'' as my seating distance is almost 12'' (340 cm). do you think will that be a loss and i should go with a 106'' screen? or i can at least throw the image on the plain wall and try both sizes. but i'd like to hear your experinces on this

I was using my 92'' graywolf 2 for about a month until I realized I NEEDED it bigger. Stepped it up all the way to 120''..... hopefully it satisfies my upgrade itch.
post #206 of 1647
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shift_grind View Post

sitting 11' away, i wouldn't go bigger then 110

Because of SDE with the Epson? Or just generally you are saying?

If I don't see SDE at 11' (with 118 inches), I wouldn't mind the immersion factor of the large screen. I literally just got back from a co-workers place, where he has a 118 inch screen. His couch (the front of it) is exactly 10' 6 inches from the screen. I sat on the edge of the couch to simulate my expected experience. I thought it was nice (of course SDE wasn't an issue, as he has the Panny Ax100).

My thinking is that several years from now, SDE won't be an issue at 11 feet with most 1080p projectors. So I want the largest screen now (so I only have to replace the projector in a few years -- not the screen too).

If SDE is tolerable with the Epson 810 at 11 feet (118 inch diag), then I'll get it. Otherwise, I might have to get the Panny AX100.

Another possibility is to compromise the difference and get the 114 inch screen -- the carada screens are 110, 114 and then 118.
post #207 of 1647
One other thing to keep in mind is that the AX-100 also scales for an anamorphic lens. So if at any point you decide to try one out you will have the vertical stretch mode built in to your PJ. It hasn't been confirmed yet if the new Epson has the correct stretch modes for an anamorphic lens. I'm actually down to just the Optoma HD73 and the Panny AX-100 so I dont have to buy a scaler or HTPC to use my lens. I warn you if you haven't seen an image that is scoped try and avoid it. Once I saw the difference I was astounded. I wish you best in your quest Caesar, I know we both have put forth allot of time and effort in our research. A fellow AVS'er has a 126" screen and the screen door of the Sanyo Z5 which is prolly the highest of all the new PJ's due to it's sharpness was not visible unless the image was on a bright white scene at about 10'-10.5'. The thing about screen door is everyone see's it differently so because one person doesn't see it at 10' doesn't mean that you wont. The AX-100 is a really good choice for a screen door sensitive person as you well know Caesar. You can sit right up on the screen!! The side affect to me was on broader scope images with allot of detail like landscapes and such you will notice a bit of softness IMO. It is not extreme but it is there. Let us know what you wond up getting Caesar!

Later,

Nate
post #208 of 1647
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHeat View Post

One other thing to keep in mind is that the AX-100 also scales for an anamorphic lens. So if at any point you decide to try one out you will have the vertical stretch mode built in to your PJ. It hasn't been confirmed yet if the new Epson has the correct stretch modes for an anamorphic lens. I'm actually down to just the Optoma HD73 and the Panny AX-100 so I dont have to buy a scaler or HTPC to use my lens. I warn you if you haven't seen an image that is scoped try and avoid it. Once I saw the difference I was astounded. I wish you best in your quest Caesar, I know we both have put forth allot of time and effort in our research. A fellow AVS'er has a 126" screen and the screen door of the Sanyo Z5 which is prolly the highest of all the new PJ's due to it's sharpness was not visible unless the image was on a bright white scene at about 10'-10.5'. The thing about screen door is everyone see's it differently so because one person doesn't see it at 10' doesn't mean that you wont. The AX-100 is a really good choice for a screen door sensitive person as you well know Caesar. You can sit right up on the screen!! The side affect to me was on broader scope images with allot of detail like landscapes and such you will notice a bit of softness IMO. It is not extreme but it is there. Let us know what you wond up getting Caesar!

Later,

Nate

Well I won't be doing constant height, so the anamorphic lens isn't an issue for me.

I think lack of sharpness might bother me more than SDE, so that's why I'm leaning towards the Epson now over the ax-100.

That's good news about the 126 inch screen and the Z5 with SDE. Although I would like to hear reports from more people with the Epson 810/tw700.

I emailed an Epson corporate person about Epson retailers in my area (Philadelphia) where I could see the Epson in action (since the web site was not helpful in that regard). He said I should hear from an Epson sales person soon.
post #209 of 1647
Quote:


One other thing to keep in mind is that the AX-100 also scales for an anamorphic lens.

Quote:


I warn you if you haven't seen an image that is scoped try and avoid it. Once I saw the difference I was astounded.

What's the point of using an anamorphic lens with a 720p projector ?.

In the past when 480p projectors ruled, there was a point of using an anamorphic lens in order to get all the resolution encoded in anmorphic widescreen DVDs, but with 720p you can get all the resolution with the panel itself.

Am I missing something ?.
post #210 of 1647
"Am I missing something ?."

...............
You sure are. Give some AVS reading time to the 'constant height' forum.
the "warning" you quoted is valid.
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