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Shadow on left of Samsung DLP screen - Page 22

post #631 of 2602
3/5/07 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

I am wondering though if there is a difference between the two series. You have the HL-R series and I have the HL-S series, and my tech said that with the new LEs there isn't any need for adjustments, but perhaps that is only true for the HL-S series. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

My only thought is that there is that I haven't heard of an automatic focus feature, and that the mounting location will come close to the correct focus some of the time. For a lazy tech I'm sure that's close enough. He gets paid for the call so that the faster he is in, and out, the more money he will make.

Eliab has stated that a lot of sets don't need to be focused when he does a calibration, but a significant number do. If you are the one in a hundred that does need the lens to be focused then a 1% rate is significant. My memory isn't clear on this, but I think Eliab said he does a focus step about a third of the time.

You can use a test pattern from a calibration disk like DVE to see if your set is not focused correctly. Check the link to Eliab's tutorial at the bottom of my post.
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post #632 of 2602
3/5/07 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

You can use a test pattern from a calibration disk like DVE to see if your set is not focused correctly. Check the link to Eliab's tutorial at the bottom of my post.

Thank you (once again)!
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post #633 of 2602
3/5/07 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticzon View Post

Well, it happen to me too (tonight). I have a HLR5678W with a one inch shadow band on the left side of my screen. I purchased my TV in Sept. 2005 and don't have an extended warranty. I'm pretty upset about this problem and I have been recommending this TV to my friends. I will call tech support tomorrow and tell them that I am aware of the extended warranty of the light tunnel. I will post the results of my phone call.

I called tech support today and was upgraded to a ECR level. The rep in the ECR department said that he wants me to pay for a local service to diagnosis what is wrong with my TV and then report back to them. Does anyone know if I am getting the run-a-round? Or is standard procedure?
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post #634 of 2602
3/5/07 at 5:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticzon View Post

I called tech support today and was upgraded to a ECR level. The rep in the ECR department said that he wants me to pay for a local service to diagnosis what is wrong with my TV and then report back to them. Does anyone know if I am getting the run-a-round? Or is standard procedure?

At least one report has been that Samsung offered to supply the parts and the out of warranty owner paid the labor. Maybe you could talk them into shipping the part based on the history of this problem so you wouldn't have to pay for two visits. You might also be able to work with the local repair service to accomplish the same thing.
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post #635 of 2602
3/5/07 at 6:20pm
Hey. I talked with ECR today and they quickly approved a parts coverage, but I have to pay for labor. I contacted the repair company and they said it will be 200 even for labor. I really was impressed with SS. They faxed the warranty extension (on parts only) to my repair shop in 10 minutes, and the repair shop has placed an order for a new LE that should arrive Wednesday. I didn't have to have a prior visit to diagnose the problem for SS. They simply approved the parts coverage. I was just extremely nice, and had no problems. I would call back and talk to someone else at ECR and state this forum. Good luck. I'll keep you guys posted on my progress.
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post #636 of 2602
3/5/07 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticzon View Post

I called tech support today and was upgraded to a ECR level. The rep in the ECR department said that he wants me to pay for a local service to diagnosis what is wrong with my TV and then report back to them. Does anyone know if I am getting the run-a-round? Or is standard procedure?

Standard procedure. They want a tech to check that it is a light engine problem and not user error or something else. Speak to the tech and get them to convince SS that your set is defective with the light tunnel problem. Your tech is the best source to get your TV fixed for free from my experience.
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post #637 of 2602
3/6/07 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

I know some have maintained that the set needs refocusing and other adjustments, but my service tech told me the same thing that yours did and my PQ is better than it was before the LE replacement. So, I am not worried in the least about it.

I am wondering though if there is a difference between the two series. You have the HL-R series and I have the HL-S series, and my tech said that with the new LEs there isn't any need for adjustments, but perhaps that is only true for the HL-S series. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

Consider yourself lucky that no adjustments were required. Looking at a picture of the HL-S Light engine and comparing it with the HL-R series, I noted a couple of things. The main optical assembly, including the light tunnel appeared identical. The lamp assembly is different and the ballast circuit board is no longer visible. They cleaned up the configuration of the circuit boards reducing component count, extra cross wiring and connectors. This is something all manufactures do with later generation products. ...."Lets see just how many components we can eliminate from our design to reduce costs"...But the basics are the same. Major differences would be made in the digital board to accommodate the 1080p hdmi inputs etc.

Almost every SS ASC repair technician will tell you the same thing, that no adjustments are necessary, which flies in the face of the detailed instructions in their service manual outlining steps required when replacing a Light engine or digital board. Also, sometimes your eyes are deceiving about picture quality. Over time the lamp brightness falls off and you get used to the picture. A new LE at first appears "fantastic" and for a while you are happy with the results. But, over time you will most likely discover things that are not quite right with your picture. Your brain will compensate for what your eyes are seeing.

Samsung appears to now be taking a hard line on the shadow issue, with most sets now going out of warranty. It's still not right for them to penalize customers for their faulty quality control.
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post #638 of 2602
3/6/07 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticzon View Post

I called tech support today and was upgraded to a ECR level. The rep in the ECR department said that he wants me to pay for a local service to diagnosis what is wrong with my TV and then report back to them. Does anyone know if I am getting the run-a-round? Or is standard procedure?

That's crap, you should not have to pay extra for a tech to look at your set. You will be out another $100 or so if he has to make two trips. Take a picture of the shadow and email it to SS and to your ASC service tech. The tech should vouch for you and identify this well known problem and should be able to get SS to agree to a quick and painless LE replacement.
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post #639 of 2602
3/6/07 at 9:26am
Thanks for answering Halco--Ive got an extended warranty thru Mack Camera and Video--just sent them the info and they will pay to the work by a Samsung cert tech. Need to start the process with Samsung. Still want to repair it myself, but am a little scared to do it. Think I will drop the TV down to ground level and open up the back panel to see what it looks like and how involved it is. Got any advice on doing it myself? Model HLR5078, left-side shadow 4".
bboze@bayoucity.net
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post #640 of 2602
3/6/07 at 7:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halco View Post

Also, sometimes your eyes are deceiving about picture quality. Over time the lamp brightness falls off and you get used to the picture. A new LE at first appears "fantastic" and for a while you are happy with the results. But, over time you will most likely discover things that are not quite right with your picture. Your brain will compensate for what your eyes are seeing.

Man...thanks for the hope of a bright future!
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post #641 of 2602
3/6/07 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halco View Post

That's crap, you should not have to pay extra for a tech to look at your set. You will be out another $100 or so if he has to make two trips. Take a picture of the shadow and email it to SS and to your ASC service tech. The tech should vouch for you and identify this well known problem and should be able to get SS to agree to a quick and painless LE replacement.

I agree with you 100%! In my case Samsung was dragging their heels and after my service tech took the initiative by ordering a new LE for me and setting up an appointment (without a trip to my place to diagnose the problem), Samsung finally acquiesced and allowed the repair to take place.
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post #642 of 2602
3/6/07 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

I agree with you 100%! In my case Samsung was dragging their heels and after my service tech took the initiative by ordering a new LE for me and setting up an appointment (without a trip to my place to diagnose the problem), Samsung finally acquiesced and allowed the repair to take place.

This is probably the magic key, the service tech. SS generally believes the service techs. Mine sat in my driveway for 30 minutes arguing the case for why I should get free service for the shadow outside of the warranty and also got SS to replace the main board for free when it came up broken after the last service. If it wasn't for the tech I would probably be singing a different tune right now.
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post #643 of 2602
3/7/07 at 12:24pm
My apologies for the long post, but it takes some background to truly appreciate the runaround I have been getting.
I had the shadow problem on my HLS-5087W (purchased in June of this year and still under warranty) and the local service company for Samsung came out and replaced it, but ever since the resolution has not been as good specifically with 1080i OTA. I called Samsung service back and they sent the local service tech out who looked at the set but said that since I didn't have a 1080i source other than OTA (daytime TV does not provide one) that he could not verify my claim and would contact Samsung about getting a signal source. Three weeks passed and I called back the local service company only to be told that there was no action being taken and that the last service call had been logged as Customer Training. So I called Samsung service back and they set up yet another appointment for a service tech to come out. Prior to the call I did some research and ran across a post on the AVS Forum site that mentioned a similar problem caused by the wrong Light Engine (one for a different size TV) being replaced. So I checked and found that the replaced light engine was for my size of TV, but the tech had put a BP91-02061A LE into my set, which according to another post was the older version and that I should have had a BP96-01640A.
I made another call to Samsung customer service and this time I spoke with tech support. The tech support guy also told me that I should have gotten a BP96 and called the local service company (while I was on hold) to tell them to have the tech bring one when he came. The tech support guy also gave me the telephone number for Executive Customer Relations just in case I had any more problems.
The local service tech just showed up today without a LE or any idea that they had been instructed to bring a LE. He said that Samsung would never have sent them a LE that was not the right version and started to tell me that the resolution problem was because of my antenna; at which point I asked to speak with his supervisor. His supervisor insisted that I had a permitted version of the LE installed and said that they were still waiting on the signal source so that they could prove to me that the set met manufacturers specifications, regardless of whether they had actually seen the degraded resolution.
After a few condecending comments from the supervisor, I said good by to both and called Samsung ECR where I got that same run around on the LE version, contrary to what I was told by Samsung tech support, and was told that they would have to send another person out to check the resolution problem.
I know that the LE version should not be the cause of the resolution problem, but at this point I want to make sure that they replace the engine with one that the lens isn't going to fall out of in a month. Can anyone please provide some information that will help me to support the LE version number position? Also if anyone has any ideas about the resolution problem it would be greatly appreciated.
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post #644 of 2602
3/7/07 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFPEREZ View Post

My apologies for the long post, but it takes some background to truly appreciate the runaround I have been getting.
I had the shadow problem on my HLS-5087W (purchased in June of this year and still under warranty) and the local service company for Samsung came out and replaced it, but ever since the resolution has not been as good specifically with 1080i OTA. I called Samsung service back and they sent the local service tech out who looked at the set but said that since I didn't have a 1080i source other than OTA (daytime TV does not provide one) that he could not verify my claim and would contact Samsung about getting a signal source. Three weeks passed and I called back the local service company only to be told that there was no action being taken and that the last service call had been logged as Customer Training. So I called Samsung service back and they set up yet another appointment for a service tech to come out. Prior to the call I did some research and ran across a post on the AVS Forum site that mentioned a similar problem caused by the wrong Light Engine (one for a different size TV) being replaced. So I checked and found that the replaced light engine was for my size of TV, but the tech had put a BP91-02061A LE into my set, which according to another post was the older version and that I should have had a BP96-01640A.
I made another call to Samsung customer service and this time I spoke with tech support. The tech support guy also told me that I should have gotten a BP96 and called the local service company (while I was on hold) to tell them to have the tech bring one when he came. The tech support guy also gave me the telephone number for Executive Customer Relations just in case I had any more problems.
The local service tech just showed up today without a LE or any idea that they had been instructed to bring a LE. He said that Samsung would never have sent them a LE that was not the right version and started to tell me that the resolution problem was because of my antenna; at which point I asked to speak with his supervisor. His supervisor insisted that I had a permitted version of the LE installed and said that they were still waiting on the signal source so that they could prove to me that the set met manufacturers specifications, regardless of whether they had actually seen the degraded resolution.
After a few condecending comments from the supervisor, I said good by to both and called Samsung ECR where I got that same run around on the LE version, contrary to what I was told by Samsung tech support, and was told that they would have to send another person out to check the resolution problem.
I know that the LE version should not be the cause of the resolution problem, but at this point I want to make sure that they replace the engine with one that the lens isn't going to fall out of in a month. Can anyone please provide some information that will help me to support the LE version number position? Also if anyone has any ideas about the resolution problem it would be greatly appreciated.

First off any serious tech should have a signal generator in their kit. It can send any type of signal across any port.

Second, one source of OTA hi def that is 24x7 in my area is the PBS station.

There were some posts about halfway back that listed the LE numbers based on models etc. I think there was still some confusion about what number was appropriate from old to new.
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post #645 of 2602
3/7/07 at 1:29pm
I noticed that there was still some question in the posts, but I thought that the consensus was that the BP96 series was the correct one for replacement. Regardless, Samsung Tech support told me that the BP91 was not the right one and that I should have has a BP96 version. Although he did say that it was possible that the label might have not been changed when it was refurbished.
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post #646 of 2602
3/7/07 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFPEREZ View Post

I noticed that there was still some question in the posts, but I thought that the consensus was that the BP96 series was the correct one for replacement. Regardless, Samsung Tech support told me that the BP91 was not the right one and that I should have has a BP96 version. Although he did say that it was possible that the label might have not been changed when it was refurbished.

Yes, the BP96 is the new series for LEs.
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post #647 of 2602
3/7/07 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

Yes, the BP96 is the new series for LEs.

Unless Samsung told you personally the BP96 is a new part number and design, I take issue, since the old Service Manuals for the HL-RXX68 and XX78 series all specify the BP96 prefix light engines. There is no accurate information on this forum to indicate wether the replacement LE's are new used or refurbished.
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post #648 of 2602
3/7/07 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halco View Post

Unless Samsung told you personally the BP96 is a new part number and design, I take issue, since the old Service Manuals for the HL-RXX68 and XX78 series all specify the BP96 prefix light engines. There is no accurate information on this forum to indicate wether the replacement LE's are new used or refurbished.

Here we go again! I'll say this one more time (for the sake of newbies)....my service tech, who really seemed to be "in the know," said that he was sure that he had received a NEW and REDESIGNED LE, and the part number for it was BP96-01640A, which replaced the BP91-02061A. He had not only replaced about a dozen LEs at that point, but had also talked to an engineer in the design department at Samsung who informed him of the new design. So, I didn't get my info personally from Samsung, but I did get it from a trustworthy source.

We can go round and round on this issue, but the bottom line is one can be optimistic and hope that we really do have newly designed LEs (that have corrected the defective light tunnels), or one can choose to be cynical and believe we are getting used and refurbished LEs. As I've said before, what do you have to gain by being so pessimistic?
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post #649 of 2602
3/8/07 at 4:02pm
This should be my final report on LE problems with my HL-R6768. After three defective LE's one with the shadow and two for other problems, David Abrams, AVICAL, was in town to touch up the settings on my new LE. As usual his expertise is without peer and the results were absolutely fantastic. It is well worth the money just to listen and learn through out the calibration process. He explains everything along the way and proves the worth of a properly ISF calibrated display. I'll keep my fingers crossed in hopes the shadow never appears again.

So for the rest of you still plagued with the shadow, have patience, don't take no for an answer and force Samsung to honor the warranty.
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post #650 of 2602
3/8/07 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halco View Post

This should be my final report on LE problems with my HL-R6768. After three defective LE's one with the shadow and two for other problems, David Abrams, AVICAL, was in town to touch up the settings on my new LE. As usual his expertise is without peer and the results were absolutely fantastic. It is well worth the money just to listen and learn through out the calibration process. He explains everything along the way and proves the worth of a properly ISF calibrated display. I'll keep my fingers crossed in hopes the shadow never appears again.

So for the rest of you still plagued with the shadow, have patience, don't take no for an answer and force Samsung to honor the warranty.

I must have missed something here. I thought SS was refusing to replace your LE. How did you get the shadow fixed?
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post #651 of 2602
3/8/07 at 4:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccouper View Post

I must have missed something here. I thought SS was refusing to replace your LE. How did you get the shadow fixed?

No not me, My warranty was at the very end of the 18 month extended. As with some others here, they tried to tell me they had no record of giving me the extra 3 months for registering on line. Since this was my third LE failure they offered to give me a replacement TV, which I declined in favor of another LE replacement. You could read some of my past posts about LE failures etc. Hope I didn't confuse anyone. Otherwise, Samsung Service has been good and their local ASC techs were prompt and had adequate expertise. (even thought, they were off base with respect to some the SM settings, which I corrected after they left)
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post #652 of 2602
3/8/07 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halco View Post

This should be my final report on LE problems with my HL-R6768. ... David Abrams, AVICAL, was in town to touch up the settings on my new LE.

Thanks for reporting David Abram's work. I've added a link to your post to the list that is linked at the bottom of my post.
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post #653 of 2602
3/8/07 at 9:31pm
Is there any list of people who have this problem? Any petition? Any recall / ext. warranty response from Samsung?

Lots of talk here, but I'm wondering if there is going to be any productive action.

My light engine was replaced after only having the TV 5 months. I'm fearful this is going to happen again after the warranty expires.

Has Samsung fixed the problem?
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post #654 of 2602
3/9/07 at 7:22am
I've got a buddy who had a slight shadow on the right side ever since he bought it. I assumed it was a thumbprint being magnified and since nobody in his family noticed it, didn't want to piss on his parade.

Sets now about 2 years old (out of warranty) and when I went over there the other day, I noticed the shadow had gotten really visible. And it now looked like a burnt butterfly. The middle section of the shadow was gone and it literally looked like a butterfly... that had been burnt.

So this was a collapsed LE from the start? Glad I didn't go with a DLP... though I feel bad because I recommended this set at the time he purchased it. Is the tinkering with the alignment that some have posted gonna be any help? Or is this gonna require a new LE? Thanks.
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post #655 of 2602
3/9/07 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by letsjet View Post

Is there any list of people who have this problem? Any petition? Any recall / ext. warranty response from Samsung?
Lots of talk here, but I'm wondering if there is going to be any productive action.
My light engine was replaced after only having the TV 5 months. I'm fearful this is going to happen again after the warranty expires.
Has Samsung fixed the problem?

No one knows if Samsung has found a permanent fix for the root cause of the light tunnel mirror failures. Given the fact that the failures occurred, on avg, after 8 to 15 months of service. only time will tell. My guess is they are still refurbishing LE's by installing replacement light tunnel assemblies in those units. It's a shame we have not heard form someone closer to Samsung, ie their service unit, who could tell us exactly what they are doing about this problem. It's been reported that SS selected a new vendor for the LE's or perhaps just the light tunnel itself.
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post #656 of 2602
3/9/07 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul33993 View Post

I've got a buddy who had a slight shadow on the right side ever since he bought it. I assumed it was a thumbprint being magnified and since nobody in his family noticed it, didn't want to piss on his parade.

Sets now about 2 years old (out of warranty) and when I went over there the other day, I noticed the shadow had gotten really visible. And it now looked like a burnt butterfly. The middle section of the shadow was gone and it literally looked like a butterfly... that had been burnt.

So this was a collapsed LE from the start? Glad I didn't go with a DLP... though I feel bad because I recommended this set at the time he purchased it. Is the tinkering with the alignment that some have posted gonna be any help? Or is this gonna require a new LE? Thanks.

Without seeing a picture of the shadow, its pretty hard to tell if it's a loose mirror in the light tunnel. It should be transparent, fairly straight or slightly bowed from top to bottom. If the shadow is very narrow, less than an inch, it might be possible to adjust the alignment of the light tunnel to move it out of view. The light tunnel produces a uniform, rectangle field of concentrated light that is reflected onto the DLP chip. There are two small screws that adjust the tunnel. However, its a tedious trial and error process requiring the removal of the LE each time an adjustment is made. Someone here mentioned making the adjustments, but I don't recommend it unless you are a Ham like me!
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post #657 of 2602
3/9/07 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul33993 View Post

I've got a buddy who had a slight shadow on the right side ever since he bought it. I assumed it was a thumbprint being magnified

That doesn't sound like a light tunnel problem.

Quote:


Sets now about 2 years old (out of warranty)

Which model? If it's a HLP then you may be seeing smudges which was a screen problem. It was very easy to fix by replacing the screen under warranty.

Quote:


I noticed the shadow had gotten really visible. And it now looked like a burnt butterfly. The middle section of the shadow was gone and it literally looked like a butterfly... that had been burnt.

Still sounds like smudges between the screen layers. Try rubbing it with a lint free cloth to see if that effects what you are seeing.

Quote:


So this was a collapsed LE from the start?

Nothing that you've written indicates that.
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post #658 of 2602
3/9/07 at 10:23am
Another datapoint...

Bought my HL-R6168 in Jan of 2006.

Last week, with about 1700 hours on the TV, I developed the left side shadow.

Called Samsung immediately. The tech immediately acknowledged that was a problem with the sets, and they'd get it fixed pronto (I have an extended warranty, but I was still under Samsung warranty via the 3 month registration extension). They told me they'd fax a local shop that would call me.

The shop (metro Phoenix area) called that afternoon. Said they had a new light engine in stock for my TV, and could come out the next day to do it!!

I had to hold them off for a day since I couldn't be home, but on the day after a tech came out, swapped out the light engine, and in about 30 minutes my TV looked better than ever (I have not had calibration done).

Given the trials that some have had here, it appears I got pretty lucky with both my Samsung support person, and my local service center.

Unfortunately, I did not note the model numbers of the outgoing or incoming light engines, but one thing I did notice was the the outgoing engine had a red (or dark orange) sticker that said, among other things, 61" while the incoming engine had a yellow sticker that read 71". I asked the tech about it and he said it was a "universal" Samsung DLP light engine rated up to a 71" TV.

It certainly looks great, but I wondered about the difference, if any.

All in all however, it was a quick and painless experience. Almost makes me hope something else goes wrong with the engine in a couple years so I can get a "new TV" again via my extended warranty.
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post #659 of 2602
3/9/07 at 11:12am
After almost 3 months of dealing with SS, I have finally entered another chapter in my my "shadow experience". With my 61" HLR now 18 months old (which Samsung sent me as a replacement to a defective 1 yr old HLP), I just this morning received another replacement from Samsung. This time a HL-S6767. This thing makes my 61" set look like a 56"! I hope I don't need to report back to this thread that the shadow has returned, but after seeing a picture on eBay of this same set with the shadow, I am not optimistic.
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post #660 of 2602
3/9/07 at 4:02pm
Well they fixed my shadow... now look what is happening. Anybody know what would cause this?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=817359
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