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Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 78

post #2311 of 8071
9/2/09 at 12:51pm
I've once tied a wheelbarrow to my bike in my youth, but in this case I think the weight of the submersive would have me and my bike standing in this \\ position

Now it's a racing bike so I just sped my way to home and jumped in my car to drive back to work. Some guys from the warehouse needed to help to get the submersive in the car. (convertible, so no booth. so roof down and back seat ) (the total package was arround 73 kg!?). Then back to home. Next problem was to get the thing out of the car. My luck a neighbour just arrived and I asked him to help.

Then the unpacking and plugging in, which didn't go so well First problem was finding audio cables to connect it to the receiver (just testing, not replacing the old sub yet) and then connecting it to the power. I then tried to power on. Nothing :s. Checked the fuse but it was ok. I now was really worried the amp somehow didn't survive the trip:s A call to mark cleared the 'issue' though. Turned out I didn't twist the power cable in locking position:$

I did some quick level checks with the radioshack and the supplied dvd and tried war of the worlds. Nice

Now I need to do some serious time in the weekend with REW and the BFD to actually get the best out of the sub because my room is just horrible. (Dip in the upper 30's and several peaks with 40 db fluctuations between the dip and peaks)

Mark , I already unpacked the submersive before I saw the message for the pictures, sorry. The packaging actually looked pretty good. No visible marks of abuse and mishandeling by the carrier. Outstanding job on the packaging you did on the submersive with the panels and corner protection carboards!
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post #2312 of 8071
9/2/09 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

so craig, how do the submersives compare to the fathoms ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

What he said

Ok, my JL F112's are sold, so now I feel like I can make some observations about the differences between the Submersives and the F112's. (I was refraining because I had the F112's advertised on this forum, and I didn't want to make any remarks that a potential buyer might find "disparaging" about the F112's. In fact I have nothing at all "bad" to say about the F112's. I have had a thoroughly enjoyable ownership experience with those subs). Nonetheless, I have moved on to the Submersives.

First off, if you saw the pic I posted earlier, the Submersives are quite bit bigger than the JL's. I'll re-post the pic here for convenience:



The JL's were the best subs I had ever heard for music. I have quite a few SACD's and DVD-A's with some excellent bass recordings. I also have quite a few concert DVD's, HD-DVD's and BluRays. The JL's made the bass on those recordings sound more like *music* than anything else I've ever heard. I was actually very reluctant to sell them because I was afraid I would never be able to duplicate that sound quality.

However, their performance for Home Theater left something to be desired. I have a THX Ultra2 speaker system, (Atlantic Technology 8200e's, 3 of the L/R's up front behind an Acoustically Transparent screen, with SR's for surrounds). They are driven by an Earthquake Cinenova amp, (325 wpc into 8 ohms, 650 wpc into 4-ohms). The speakers and amps were definitely capable of full Reference Level... but the JL subs were holding them back. On scenes with really deep VLF effects, I couldn't get much above -15 to -12 before the subs would hit the "limiters", (and the limiters on the JL's are really obnoxious, with their "clacking" sound).

In my room, the dual JL's could hit about 100 dB before the limiters kicked in, unless the content had bass below about 30 Hz. Then the max output dropped as the frequency dropped. Some of the VLF bass spectaculars, like Pulse, Cloverfield, M&C, WotW, Ironman etc., were not playable unless the MV was kept below -15.

I recently went to a friends' house to check out his theater. He's an AVS member, and he has a Klipsch THX Ultra2 speaker system with 4 Klipsch THX Ultra2 subs driven by a pair of the 1 kilowatt amps. His system is in a large, but fully sealed room. His system is easily capable of full RL at the seats, with headroom. I was floored by the sound, especially the bass. Right then and there, I decided I needed a subwoofer upgrade.

Enter the Submersives. Where the JL's were two 12" drivers in very small, sealed boxes, the Submersives are four 15" drivers in much larger sealed boxes. The JL drivers (probably) have more excursion (xMax) than the Seaton drivers. However the total air movement capability of four 15" drivers overwhelms the capability of two 12" drivers. Where the JL subs were moving like crazy to attempt to produce output, the four Seaton drivers are loafing along, barely breaking a sweat, producing the same, (and much more), output.

The resultant sound is...

...well, let's just say that the Submersives do everything the JL's did in terms of sound quality for music, (in fact, they provide the same sound quality at significantly higher SPL's), while at the same time, providing the massive output and extension I desired for Home Theater. Reference Level is now a piece of cake for my system, even with the bass spectacular's! In fact the system sounds like it has plenty of headroom left, even with the deepest LF soundtracks.

These Submersives are the best upgrade I have implemented in my system since I went with 3 identical front speakers behind an Acoustically Transparent screen. I have lost *nothing* in terms of sound quality and I have gained massive output capability and VLF externsion.

Mark Seaton, I couldn't be happier. Your subs have definitely taken my system to the next level. The whole system plays back louder, cleaner and "better" with your subs than it ever did with the dual JL F112's*.

*Having said all that, I don't want, in any way, to disparage the JL subs. I think, for what they are, (small, sealed, well built and executed subs), they have no peer. They simply have limitations. I wanted to go beyond those limitations, and the Submersives allowed me to do so.

Craig
LL
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post #2313 of 8071
9/2/09 at 6:35pm
I want to also discuss how I ended up setting up the Submersives. I first inserted the SMS-1 into the circuit. I reset it to the original default settings, then I changed the subsonic filter to 5 Hz and the slope to 6 dB/octave. I also shut off the internal LPF.

I then ran Audyssey MultEQ XT from my Onkyo 885 pre/pro. After the Audyssey run, the subwoofer distance was set at 16.4 ft., (where I had previously set it to 18 ft.) I changed the mains from Full Range to an 80 Hz crossover. Then I went back and set some filters on the SMS-1 to flatten the FR, (using just the SMS-1 display).

I believe this is the "Seaton-recommended" technique to use a parametric EQ like the SMS-1 in conjunction with Audysey MultEQ XT, correct?

It sounds terrific. I will try to get the xtz software setup again this weekend to take some measurements and post them. For now, I'm heading down to listen to some music.

Craig
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post #2314 of 8071
9/2/09 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

*Having said all that, I don't want, in any way, to disparage the JL subs. I think, for what they are, (small, sealed, well built and executed subs), they have no peer. They simply have limitations. I wanted to go beyond those limitations, and the Submersives allowed me to do so.

Craig


Congrats Craig... you certainly have a great setup - and now its finally complete for you... The submersives are awesome...

The JL's are spectacular subs, but are much better utilized in a smaller room, my F112 in my 1700^3 bedroom is more then I could ask for in its nice little package, but toss it into a larger room, and it just can't cut the mustard in terms of output.

May your submersives give you joy for many years to come... !!!!
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post #2315 of 8071
9/2/09 at 6:49pm
Craig,

Are you going to give the AS-EQ1 a try with the SubMersives? I know you didn't have a good experience with it using your JLs.
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post #2316 of 8071
9/2/09 at 7:06pm
excellent setup...

i think the longer you listen to those submersives the bigger your grin's gonna get...
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post #2317 of 8071
9/2/09 at 7:08pm
Great write-up, Craig. I was eagerly awaiting it, and it was worth it. In fact, it got me SO excited that I almost want to go beg my wife to let me get a Submersive. Seriously, I am all smiles; like a little kid at Christmas, and I didn't even get anything.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Craig!
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post #2318 of 8071
9/2/09 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I want to also discuss how I ended up setting up the Submersives. I first inserted the SMS-1 into the circuit. I reset it to the original default settings, then I changed the subsonic filter to 5 Hz and the slope to 6 dB/octave. I also shut off the internal LPF.

I then ran Audyssey MultEQ XT from my Onkyo 885 pre/pro. After the Audyssey run, the subwoofer distance was set at 16.4 ft., (where I had previously set it to 18 ft.) I changed the mains from Full Range to an 80 Hz crossover. Then I went back and set some filters on the SMS-1 to flatten the FR, (using just the SMS-1 display).

I believe this is the "Seaton-recommended" technique to use a parametric EQ like the SMS-1 in conjunction with Audysey MultEQ XT, correct?
Craig

Craig, yes I think this is exactly what Mark S recommends, and it's what I do. MultEQ XT (via an Onk 805) does a pretty good job, but it is nice to be able to even things out a bit with the SMS-1. And yes, it does sound amazing!

BTW, with trims for the L/C/R speakers (Ascendacoustics Sierra's) set to give 75 dB, I can't set the LFE channel to more than ~ 77-78 dB without the bass becoming too overpowering. At this level things sound very well balanced.
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post #2319 of 8071
9/2/09 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Congrats Craig... you certainly have a great setup - and now its finally complete for you... The submersives are awesome...

Yup!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

The JL's are spectacular subs, but are much better utilized in a smaller room, my F112 in my 1700^3 bedroom is more then I could ask for in its nice little package, but toss it into a larger room, and it just can't cut the mustard in terms of output.

Yeah, the room just overwhelmed the JL's. It's about 3,800 cubic feet with lots of absorption and bass trapping. I'm sure the JL's in a smaller room would have been more than adequate... and provide tremedous sound quality.

The guys that bought them are integrating them into pretty high-end systems. One guy has Wilson Sophia's driven by MacIntosh and Meridian electronics. The other guy has Kharma CE 3.1 speakers, MacIntosh electronics and some exotic turntable/cartridge system for vinyl records. I think the JL F112's will be much better suited to those types of systems than in an HT environment in a large room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

May your submersives give you joy for many years to come... !!!!

WOW! Thanks, man!

Craig
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post #2320 of 8071
9/2/09 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

Craig,

Are you going to give the AS-EQ1 a try with the SubMersives? I know you didn't have a good experience with it using your JLs.

I think the plan is for pepar to bring *his* AS-EQ1 over here, (as opposed to the loaner prototype he has now), once he receives it. We'll put it in my system for a few days while he does some work on his system, moving his subs around, installing some more bass traps, etc.

The "issues" I had with the AS-EQ1 and my JL's were related to a difference in the firmware in my 2 JL's. They were bought at different times, and there was an interim firmware revision that changed the upper LPF, and changed the volume scaling. Jl sent me a new processor board, at no charge, so that the two subs matched each other.

Since my Submersives were made "sequentially", I don't expect there were any revisions made in between the two builds.

I'll be interested to see what effect the AS-EQ1 has on the sound.

Craig
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post #2321 of 8071
9/2/09 at 7:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Great write-up, Craig. I was eagerly awaiting it, and it was worth it. In fact, it got me SO excited that I almost want to go beg my wife to let me get a Submersive. Seriously, I am all smiles; like a little kid at Christmas, and I didn't even get anything.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Craig!

Great post! It almost makes me want to pack up one of my Submersives and send it to you!

Wait.. wait... I did say... "almost"!

Craig
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post #2322 of 8071
9/2/09 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Craig, yes I think this is exactly what Mark S recommends, and it's what I do. MultEQ XT (via an Onk 805) does a pretty good job, but it is nice to be able to even things out a bit with the SMS-1. And yes, it does sound amazing!

BTW, with trims for the L/C/R speakers (Ascendacoustics Sierra's) set to give 75 dB, I can't set the LFE channel to more than ~ 77-78 dB without the bass becoming too overpowering. At this level things sound very well balanced.

Thanks for reminding me... I forgot to mention my last step, which was to re-balance everything with the SPL meter. I set them all to 75, which with my meter, is setting the sub ~3 dB hot.

Craig
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post #2323 of 8071
9/2/09 at 8:03pm
How much do these weigh anyways?

Edit: Found it 120.
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post #2324 of 8071
9/2/09 at 8:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

And yes, it does sound amazing!

I just listened to several songs on The Eagles, Farewell 1 Tour on HD DVD in DTS-MA on the new Submersives. I listened at -3 MV, which is about 10 dB louder than I've ever listened to it before. Words can't describe it... that's all I can say.

Shakes head...

Goes to bed...



Craig
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post #2325 of 8071
9/2/09 at 8:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I just listened to several songs on The Eagles, Farewell 1 Tour on HD DVD in DTS-MA on the new Submersives. I listened at -3 MV, which is about 10 dB louder than I've ever listened to it before. Words can't describe it... that's all I can say.

Shakes head...

Goes to bed...



Craig

Great for you!!! I was doing the same thing last night with some red-label tracks... stunning is about as close as words get.

You know, I'm getting insane performance in my 3,100 cu. ft. room with 1 SubMersive--I can't imagine what craziness you're able to get to with duals!
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post #2326 of 8071
9/2/09 at 8:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

The resultant sound is...

...well, let's just say that the Submersives do everything the JL's did in terms of sound quality for music, (in fact, they provide the same sound quality at significantly higher SPL's), while at the same time, providing the massive output and extension I desired for Home Theater. Reference Level is now a piece of cake for my system, even with the bass spectacular's! In fact the system sounds like it has plenty of headroom left, even with the deepest LF soundtracks.

These Submersives are the best upgrade I have implemented in my system since I went with 3 identical front speakers behind an Acoustically Transparent screen. I have lost *nothing* in terms of sound quality and I have gained massive output capability and VLF extension.

Mark Seaton, I couldn't be happier. Your subs have definitely taken my system to the next level. The whole system plays back louder, cleaner and "better" with your subs than it ever did with the dual JL F112's*.

*Having said all that, I don't want, in any way, to disparage the JL subs. I think, for what they are, (small, sealed, well built and executed subs), they have no peer. They simply have limitations. I wanted to go beyond those limitations, and the Submersives allowed me to do so.

Craig

Great write-up Craig.
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post #2327 of 8071
9/2/09 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Great post! It almost makes me want to pack up one of my Submersives and send it to you!

Wait.. wait... I did say... "almost"!

Craig

Ohhhhh, so close. Do I need to beg, cause I can do that!

Enjoy buddy. I'll hear a Submersive one of these days...hopefully when it's in my home because I bought one.

P.S. The Packers look goooooood this year!
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post #2328 of 8071
9/3/09 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Ok, my JL F112's are sold, so now I feel like I can make some observations about the differences between the Submersives and the F112's. (I was refraining because I had the F112's advertised on this forum, and I didn't want to make any remarks that a potential buyer might find "disparaging" about the F112's. In fact I have nothing at all "bad" to say about the F112's. I have had a thoroughly enjoyable ownership experience with those subs). Nonetheless, I have moved on to the Submersives.

First off, if you saw the pic I posted earlier, the Submersives are quite bit bigger than the JL's. I'll re-post the pic here for convenience:



The JL's were the best subs I had ever heard for music. I have quite a few SACD's and DVD-A's with some excellent bass recordings. I also have quite a few concert DVD's, HD-DVD's and BluRays. The JL's made the bass on those recordings sound more like *music* than anything else I've ever heard. I was actually very reluctant to sell them because I was afraid I would never be able to duplicate that sound quality.

However, their performance for Home Theater left something to be desired. I have a THX Ultra2 speaker system, (Atlantic Technology 8200e's, 3 of the L/R's up front behind an Acoustically Transparent screen, with SR's for surrounds). They are driven by an Earthquake Cinenova amp, (325 wpc into 8 ohms, 650 wpc into 4-ohms). The speakers and amps were definitely capable of full Reference Level... but the JL subs were holding them back. On scenes with really deep VLF effects, I couldn't get much above -15 to -12 before the subs would hit the "limiters", (and the limiters on the JL's are really obnoxious, with their "clacking" sound).

In my room, the dual JL's could hit about 100 dB before the limiters kicked in, unless the content had bass below about 30 Hz. Then the max output dropped as the frequency dropped. Some of the VLF bass spectaculars, like Pulse, Cloverfield, M&C, WotW, Ironman etc., were not playable unless the MV was kept below -15.

I recently went to a friends' house to check out his theater. He's an AVS member, and he has a Klipsch THX Ultra2 speaker system with 4 Klipsch THX Ultra2 subs driven by a pair of the 1 kilowatt amps. His system is in a large, but fully sealed room. His system is easily capable of full RL at the seats, with headroom. I was floored by the sound, especially the bass. Right then and there, I decided I needed a subwoofer upgrade.

Enter the Submersives. Where the JL's were two 12" drivers in very small, sealed boxes, the Submersives are four 15" drivers in much larger sealed boxes. The JL drivers (probably) have more excursion (xMax) than the Seaton drivers. However the total air movement capability of four 15" drivers overwhelms the capability of two 12" drivers. Where the JL subs were moving like crazy to attempt to produce output, the four Seaton drivers are loafing along, barely breaking a sweat, producing the same, (and much more), output.

The resultant sound is...

...well, let's just say that the Submersives do everything the JL's did in terms of sound quality for music, (in fact, they provide the same sound quality at significantly higher SPL's), while at the same time, providing the massive output and extension I desired for Home Theater. Reference Level is now a piece of cake for my system, even with the bass spectacular's! In fact the system sounds like it has plenty of headroom left, even with the deepest LF soundtracks.

These Submersives are the best upgrade I have implemented in my system since I went with 3 identical front speakers behind an Acoustically Transparent screen. I have lost *nothing* in terms of sound quality and I have gained massive output capability and VLF externsion.

Mark Seaton, I couldn't be happier. Your subs have definitely taken my system to the next level. The whole system plays back louder, cleaner and "better" with your subs than it ever did with the dual JL F112's*.

*Having said all that, I don't want, in any way, to disparage the JL subs. I think, for what they are, (small, sealed, well built and executed subs), they have no peer. They simply have limitations. I wanted to go beyond those limitations, and the Submersives allowed me to do so.

Craig

What about dual F113? how would that compare or are the result the same? "Submersive comes out on top"?????
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post #2329 of 8071
9/3/09 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshin-himura View Post

What about dual F113? how would that compare or are the result the same? "Submersive comes out on top"?????

The F113 has 1 Hz deeper extension, (18 Hz vs. 19 Hz) and ~3 dB more output. It has the same limiters that the F112 has. I haven't done the comparison, but I wouldn't expect the results to be alot different.

Craig
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post #2330 of 8071
9/3/09 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshin-himura View Post

What about dual F113? how would that compare or are the result the same? "Submersive comes out on top"?????

i think the problem with the JL's is they just are not designed to go very low because of the built in undefeatable HP filter

you could use a whole room full of gothams and they would still only go so low
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post #2331 of 8071
9/3/09 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

The F113 has 1 Hz deeper extension, (18 Hz vs. 19 Hz) and ~3 dB more output. It has the same limiters that the F112 has. I haven't done the comparison, but I wouldn't expect the results to be alot different.

Craig

I have listened to dual F113s. They hit a lot harder than the 100dB that Craig stated his F112s were limited to. They easily hit reference levels, because that is what I listened at! Granted, they were in a treated demo room, with who knows what pushing them. All I am trying to convey is YMMV.
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post #2332 of 8071
9/3/09 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I have listened to dual F113s. They hit a lot harder than the 100dB that Craig stated his F112s were limited to. They easily hit reference levels, because that is what I listened at! Granted, they were in a treated demo room, with who knows what pushing them. All I am trying to convey is YMMV.

Let me clarify something. That 100 dB was at the seats in my rather large, leaky, heavily treated room. In a smaller, sealed room, they could probably produce more output. I never measured their total output outdoors, groundplane.

Craig
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post #2333 of 8071
9/3/09 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Let me clarify something. That 100 dB was at the seats in my rather large, leaky, heavily treated room. In a smaller, sealed room, they could probably produce more output. I never measured their total output outdoors, groundplane.

Craig

Totally understand. Not to mention, a single SubMersive is a much better deal than dual F113s (even if you do get them at half price ).
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post #2334 of 8071
9/3/09 at 1:15pm
Thanks for your impressions craig... another happy owner.... all of marks speakers just seem to loaf around... especially the catalysts.......

Whats up with all these lazy speakers?

Sean
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post #2335 of 8071
9/3/09 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_w_smith View Post

Thanks for your impressions craig... another happy owner.... all of marks speakers just seem to loaf around... especially the catalysts.......

Whats up with all these lazy speakers?

Sean

They are pretending to wait for the rest of the industry - especially the content/software gangs - to catch up ....

duwdu
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post #2336 of 8071
9/3/09 at 2:44pm
Deleted for inadvertent double post (same as 2335.)
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post #2337 of 8071
9/3/09 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


I recently went to a friends' house to check out his theater. He's an AVS member, and he has a Klipsch THX Ultra2 speaker system with 4 Klipsch THX Ultra2 subs driven by a pair of the 1 kilowatt amps. His system is in a large, but fully sealed room. His system is easily capable of full RL at the seats, with headroom. I was floored by the sound, especially the bass. Right then and there, I decided I needed a subwoofer upgrade.

Craig

Sounds like you were impressed by the Klipsch system - and subs. How do the Submersives compare to the Klipsch subs? How big is your friend's room with the four subs?

I have two Klipsch THX Ultra 2 subs and really do like them. I'm always, however, looking for the next "best" thing in my system and wondered if the Submersive (pair) is it. I also have the full Klipsch THX system, and do think it sounds fantastic.
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post #2338 of 8071
9/4/09 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I have listened to dual F113s. They hit a lot harder than the 100dB that Craig stated his F112s were limited to. They easily hit reference levels, because that is what I listened at! Granted, they were in a treated demo room, with who knows what pushing them. All I am trying to convey is YMMV.


Ignoring price for the sake of discussion, wouldn't a more appropriate comparison in terms of number of drivers, & box size be dual Submersives and dual F212's?

I understand that Craig had dual F112's, but it doesn't come as a great surprise.

Even a pair of SVS PB-12 Plus's would outdo the F112 at 20 Hz. In the recent comparison done by Brent Butterworth of Sound&Vision, a single PB-12 Plus had its Maximum output of 114.8 db at 20 Hz, while a single F112 achieved 95.4 db at 22.5Hz. Butterworth did not push the F112 to 20 Hz because "below that (22.5 Hz), distortion was above 10% at all settings".

It could be years before anyone has a pair of F212s and a pair of Submersives for direct comparison.

Then to, as OTK would say, even a room full of F212s wouldn't compare because of their built-in HP filter.

On the other hand, when people on this Forum went on the factory tour of J L Audio, they seemed mightily impressed in the room with a combination of about 7 F113s and F112s.
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post #2339 of 8071
9/4/09 at 9:16am
Spyboy,

I was only trying to convey that the dual F113s I listened to were leaps and bounds better than the 100dB max that Craig's F112s were limited to. So when Craig responded to someone asking about the F113 with the below quote, I thought I would offer up my 'real world' experiences with the F113. I wasn't comparing the F113 to the SubMersive, rather comparing my experience with dual F113s to Craig's experience with dual F112s.

I'm not qualified to answer your SubMersive vs F113 vs F212 question. I wish I were!

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

The F113 has 1 Hz deeper extension, (18 Hz vs. 19 Hz) and ~3 dB more output. It has the same limiters that the F112 has. I haven't done the comparison, but I wouldn't expect the results to be alot different.

Craig
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post #2340 of 8071
9/4/09 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I just listened to several songs on The Eagles, Farewell 1 Tour on HD DVD in DTS-MA on the new Submersives. I listened at -3 MV, which is about 10 dB louder than I've ever listened to it before. Words can't describe it... that's all I can say.

Shakes head...

Goes to bed...



Craig

Hi Craig,

Sorry for being late to jump in here with the thanks for your very detailed reporting of your experience, this week has been a busy one.

As nice as it was to read your long account above, this post is what I'm really after. To steal/paraphrase Keith Yates... "It's about the goosebumps..."

I have had nearly the same experience you describe above through the process of developing the SubMersives, Catalysts and Sparks (Catalysts + dual SubMersives change that "Shakes head..." to a "Big affirmative nodding..."

While not out on Blu-Ray yet, if the music is of interest, I'd suggest grabbing Peter Gabriel's "Growing Up Live" DVD. The video is so-so, but the performance is quite good.

Have you had a chance to go back to the posts Sean & I made earlier about using the AudioToolkit DVD to subjectively tweak the speaker & surround delays?
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