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Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 101

post #3001 of 8062
10/26/09 at 6:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

KX250F,

If you were able to boost sub 20hz performance on the F113 assumably with a manual equalizer, how do you think the two would compare?


Jim,

I've tried that with my F113, but the sub's built in limiters minimized the impact. Haven't compared them side by side, but I don't think there is anything to be done that would allow the F113 to have as much output down low as the SubMersive.
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post #3002 of 8062
10/26/09 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KX250F View Post

Here you go.






Frack!!!! What size is your room? That is a great setup for sure!
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post #3003 of 8062
10/26/09 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KX250F View Post

I've only had the Submersives up and running for only a week. I have literally only watched 2 movies (Transformers 2 & Valkire), and some clips from Kung Fu Panda, Blade II, and the Hulk (New one). I have used KFP, and Blade II as demos for friends for a long time so I know these two very well on my system. Using the three movies mentioned I noticed more similarities between the Submersive's and JL's than differences. I think both excel in this part of the audio spectrum, however the Submersive seems to have more of it and does not need to be cranked up so much.

I did a brief stint with a pair of Epik Dynasty's before getting the Submersive's. It took me about two weeks to get them in a spot where I was starting to get happy with them, but there was always something still missing compared to the JL's. In the end I think it was the design of the Dynasty being ported and maybe the bigger driver. I think I had become so used to the JL's and there (Signature sound) over the 2 years of owning them that nothing else would do.

Now I had a decision to make. The JL's where sold and gone, do I get two more F113's, two F212's or try two or three Submersives. You see my decision.

Now where it took me two weeks with the Dynasty's to get them in a spot where I was happy it took me about two minutes with the Submersives. I pretty much unpacked two of them and put them in the same spots I had the JL's. The third was not used at first since I had planned on using it in the back of the room where Mark had suggested and probably will end up. I used Aydussey to get my distance settings and thats it we where off and running. The first movie I put in was Kung Fu Panda, I went through the couple of scenes that I usually watch. Now I don't have a mirror in my theater but I'm sure if did I could see myself smiling or maybe it was more like this I don't know.

I know I didn't really answer your question directly. All I know is that the JL F113 is a awesome sub, and I feel it's major flaw is that it doesn't do the low stuff below 20hz. This was my main reason for wanting to get rid of the JL's, I used to use them on two channel but since I got my Aerials in March the JL's where no longer needed to two channel and where for movie duty only. At that point I told myself I want to try something different and the search for a replacement began. The Submersive is everything the JL is above 20hz but with more headroom, and it does do the stuff below 20hz. For me and my setup this makes it the perfect match and now my sub search is over.

Hi There i have seen you mentioned epiks, how come you did not check out the paradigm sub 25 or the sub 2? I am down to 2 subs either the submersive or the sub 25 and maybe even the sub 2.

I see you got 3 submersive and you had 2 fathoms, why did you go with 3 in stead of 2? i will be getting a house next year and i think i will be coying your set up lol for my theater room.

Looking for some more final answers for my decision.
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post #3004 of 8062
10/26/09 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KX250F View Post

Here you go.






Wow, nice set up
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post #3005 of 8062
10/26/09 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

KX250F,

If you were able to boost sub 20hz performance on the F113 assumably with a manual equalizer, how do you think the two would compare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Jim,

I've tried that with my F113, but the sub's built in limiters minimized the impact. Haven't compared them side by side, but I don't think there is anything to be done that would allow the F113 to have as much output down low as the SubMersive.

I actually asked JL's head of tech support about boosting the infrasonics with EQ before I decided to move from my F112's to the Submersives. He said exactly what bfreedma said: won't work. It's basically what made my decision for me.

Otherwise, I feel exactly the same about my departed F112's as KX250F feels about his departed F113's. They were great subs with excellent sound quality. For music, I had never heard anything better. I said all this a little over a month ago:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...g+john&page=78

Craig
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post #3006 of 8062
10/26/09 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Frack!!!! What size is your room? That is a great setup for sure!

The dimensions are 14.5W x 22.5L x 8.0H.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshin-himura View Post

Hi There i have seen you mentioned epiks, how come you did not check out the paradigm sub 25 or the sub 2? I am down to 2 subs either the submersive or the sub 25 and maybe even the sub 2.

I see you got 3 submersive and you had 2 fathoms, why did you go with 3 in stead of 2? i will be getting a house next year and i think i will be coying your set up lol for my theater room.

Looking for some more final answers for my decision.

Kenshin I considered the Paradigm before really decideding on the Submersives and I tried talking to a couple of dealers, but they acted like they had the next best thing since slice bread and weren't cutting me much of a deal.

As far as 3 Submersives over 2. My Denon processor has three independent subwoofer outputs so I fiqure might as well use all of them. It also helped that when I talked to Mark Seaton that he felt that a third sub in the back of the room would help smooth things out. I don't currently have it setup that way because I need to remove my projector and get up in the rafters to run a cable back there. Hopefully I can get this done over the Thanksgiving Holidays when I have time off.

I cannot give you any direct comparisons between the Paradigm and the Submersive. I have never seen or heard the Paradigm but I'm sure it is in the league of the Submersive and JL Fathom's, but at a much higher premium $$$$. Only you can decide which is best for your application and wallet.
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post #3007 of 8062
10/26/09 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

... Please don't be afraid to crank your SubMersive's gain knobs up on the high side...

So, how high up do you have the gain on your SubM set? Mine is at -10.
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post #3008 of 8062
10/26/09 at 11:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

So, how high up do you have the gain on your SubM set? Mine is at -10.

Ok, well first off as you know , my settings are not good in any room but mine. I don't wanna read no posts like... "My SubMersive blew up , its James' fault!"

Anyhow my SubMersive's gain is at 8 , and Audyssey in my Onkyo TX-SR805 is at -4db. I also have a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033 which has been put thru the automatic calibration a few times to be sure everything was done right. In the speaker levels I run the SubMersive hot around 6-8db .

The results are superb, I am very happy with my SubMersive. One of my favorite things is when I have something on TV, I am not necessarily watching it and may be in another room. But here and there a bass note hits that you can feel. I try and listen for more and nothing, there might have been a tiny bass note in a commercial or something but its cool because you listen further and you'd swear the SubMersive is off .. I go on doing whatever it is I am doing and a half hour later I feel another nice bass note.
If you have ever felt the tiny tremors that come before an earthquake that is kinda what it is like. :-)
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post #3009 of 8062
10/26/09 at 11:33pm
As I said , in the speaker levels I run the sub hot 6-8db , I wanted to add something.... it absolutely does not sound that hot..............that is the high sound quality of the SubMersive talking.

You run lesser subwoofers hot and they get to rumbling , rumbling, rumbling , on and on and on....they get on your nerves and you turn the gain down to 20% cause you've heard all you want to hear from it.
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post #3010 of 8062
10/27/09 at 4:51am
I just had my new JM Labs center installed last night. Since this is not a JM Labs forum I will only say I love it and finally having a matching center is great. I have known this dealer for a number of years. He was at this one store I used to go to a long time ago. Any way,

I wanted to give him a just a quick demo of the dynamics of my system. I first played the open scene of The Dark Knight. I put it up to -16db. It sounded great. I looked over at him and I could telll that he was digging it. The bass just filled the room. I gave him the particulars about the sub also. Then I said, "do you really want to see what this thing can do?" So I broke out WOTW. I played the Lightning scene. He was impressed. Then I jumped to the big scene that starts with the rumble in the streets. When it started he said, "man, that is low". That is the first person who actually said that they knew that it was going very low. Then the fun parts started and his face was a Holy Crap sort of a face. I told him how low I was getting in my room. I think he was impressed.
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post #3011 of 8062
10/27/09 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post


Anyhow my SubMersive's gain is at 8 , and Audyssey in my Onkyo TX-SR805 is at -4db. I also have a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033 which has been put thru the automatic calibration a few times to be sure everything was done right. In the speaker levels I run the SubMersive hot around 6-8db .

Thanks, James. Your values are actually no so diff from mine: my SubM's gain is at -10, my AVR 805's LFE trim is -4, and this is all through a SMS-1 with its volume at 15. (Room is ~ 2000 cu ft.)
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post #3012 of 8062
10/27/09 at 8:33am
[quote=James W. Johnson;17425791]As I said , in the speaker levels I run the sub hot 6-8db /QUOTE]

Is this as measured with an SPL meter?
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post #3013 of 8062
10/27/09 at 8:36am
[quote=JimP;17427278]
Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

As I said , in the speaker levels I run the sub hot 6-8db /QUOTE]

Is this as measured with an SPL meter?

The gain #'s on the SubM are the # of dB below the max gain. Therefore 6 is actually -6 below the max gain. As said, I have mine set at -10.
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post #3014 of 8062
10/27/09 at 8:48am
KX250F: How is the difference between the submersives and the two Dynasty's you had?
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post #3015 of 8062
10/27/09 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Is this as measured with an SPL meter?



Yes , I cannot say I know the exact correction . I think its 3db or so no?
So in reality the sub is hot 9-11db .

Do you happen to know what frequency the test tones on the Onkyo 805 ore ?
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post #3016 of 8062
10/27/09 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

KX250F: How is the difference between the submersives and the two Dynasty's you had?


Good to see Hksvr4.

Well the Dynasty's had all the down low a man could ask for, but I was having two issues. First was placement so they didn't sound so boomy. Secondly I just couldn't get them to sound the way my JL's did in the mid-bass area. On movies with fight scenes the punches just didn't hit me in the chest like the JL's and now the Submersives do. Another example would be gun fire scenes in the new Hulk.

As I noted in a post yesterday, I feel that over the 2 years owning the JL's I had become accustomed to the sound of a sealed sub in my room. I think the Dynasty is a good sub by all means, but it didn't quite give me what I wanted in my particular setup.

Just so I don't sound bias I do have a Epik Valor sealed sub that I use in a second theater in my house. I have owned it since November 2007 and my 15 year old son and I have pounded the $hit out of that thing while playing video games and it has taken the abuse. Great little sub and what do you know it's a sealed design.
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post #3017 of 8062
10/27/09 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

... my SubM's gain is at -10, my AVR 805's LFE trim is -4, and this is all through a SMS-1 with its volume at 15. (Room is ~ 2000 cu ft.)

With these settings, my sub is just marginally above the other speakers, maybe 1 to 2 dB (measured with the usual SPL meter and the 805's test tones). This is personal preference, of course.

I note that I also run Audyssey MultEQ XT (from the Onk 805) and then use the SMS-1 to make modest modifications from there.
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post #3018 of 8062
10/27/09 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KX250F View Post

Good to see Hksvr4.

Well the Dynasty's had all the down low a man could ask for, but I was having two issues. First was placement so they didn't sound so boomy. Secondly I just couldn't get them to sound the way my JL's did in the mid-bass area. On movies with fight scenes the punches just didn't hit me in the chest like the JL's and now the Submersives do. Another example would be gun fire scenes in the new Hulk.

As I noted in a post yesterday, I feel that over the 2 years owning the JL's I had become accustomed to the sound of a sealed sub in my room. I think the Dynasty is a good sub by all means, but it didn't quite give me what I wanted in my particular setup.

Just so I don't sound bias I do have a Epik Valor sealed sub that I use in a second theater in my house. I have owned it since November 2007 and my 15 year old son and I have pounded the $hit out of that thing while playing video games and it has taken the abuse. Great little sub and what do you know it's a sealed design.

That's what another user said about the Dynasty. He's comming off the Ultra13. The Ultra had the punch the Dynasty was missing. The Submersive has the best of both worlds. This makes me want the Submersive. I perfer the punch bass any day.
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post #3019 of 8062
10/27/09 at 11:50am
Hey KX250F. Do you think the Valor has a more puncher sound than the Dynasty. I use to own a Valor and man did it hit hard ton of mid-bass slam. Now I own a Dragon, let me tell the Dragon is one amazing sub. It slams alittle harder than the Valor but the biggest upgrade is the sound quality and the effortless bass of the Dragon. I also love the sound of a good sealed sub.
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post #3020 of 8062
10/27/09 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Hi Jeratt,

I apologize for the delayed response. Things have been quite crazy here, particularly as I'm prepping our new office/warehouse to receive many parts for SubMersives next week. Lead times for most all SubMersive finishes will be much shorter by the end of next week.

You will see a response tonight or tomorrow.

Hi Mark, any word on this yet? Hope I'm not being pushy but my pockets are burning I don't know how much longer I can be strong for lol
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post #3021 of 8062
10/27/09 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post



Quote:


Originally Posted by millerwill
.. my SubM's gain is at -10, my AVR 805's LFE trim is -4, and this is all through a SMS-1 with its volume at 15. (Room is ~ 2000 cu ft.)



With these settings, my sub is just marginally above the other speakers, maybe 1 to 2 dB (measured with the usual SPL meter and the 805's test tones). This is personal preference, of course.

I note that I also run Audyssey MultEQ XT (from the Onk 805) and then use the SMS-1 to make modest modifications from there.


Your talking to yourself bro , id recommend that you go see a psychiatrist.
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post #3022 of 8062
10/27/09 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeratt View Post

Hi Mark, any word on this yet? Hope I'm not being pushy but my pockets are burning I don't know how much longer I can be strong for lol

Have some patience and don't go wasting your money on something else , trust me on this one Jeratt, your patience will pay off , like big time.

Mark does not just whip these SubMersives together, he puts each one together very carefully like its his own.

Hang tight, you time will come.
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post #3023 of 8062
10/27/09 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by irvin View Post

Hey KX250F. Do you think the Valor has a more puncher sound than the Dynasty. I use to own a Valor and man did it hit hard ton of mid-bass slam. Now I own a Dragon, let me tell the Dragon is one amazing sub. It slams alittle harder than the Valor but the biggest upgrade is the sound quality and the effortless bass of the Dragon. I also love the sound of a good sealed sub.

I sense a little SubMersive envy in your post. Sell that Dragon and put that money towards a real subwoofer such as a SubMersive.
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post #3024 of 8062
10/27/09 at 5:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

Your talking to yourself bro , id recommend that you go see a psychiatrist.

Thought it might be useful info for some; obviously not for you, who seems to know everything already.
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post #3025 of 8062
10/27/09 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

Have some patience and don't go wasting your money on something else , trust me on this one Jeratt, your patience will pay off , like big time.

Mark does not just whip these SubMersives together, he puts each one together very carefully like its his own.

Hang tight, you time will come.

Ok thx James, encouraging words do help, I'll hang in there man. Took me a while to save up the dough so now that I have enough I wanna pull the trigger before some unforeseen badluck strikes and I end up needing it for something not nearly as cool as a new Sub lol *knocking on wood*
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post #3026 of 8062
10/27/09 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

I sense a little SubMersive envy in your post. Sell that Dragon and put that money towards a real subwoofer such as a SubMersive.

Who says that a SubMersive is better than the Dragon in his room? Are you a Submersive expert?

Bill
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post #3027 of 8062
10/27/09 at 6:36pm
Gee I didn't think I sounded envious . I am very happy with my Dragon. I am sure the Submersive is nice and all but I really like my Dragon, if I wanted more output I could always get another Dragon.
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post #3028 of 8062
10/27/09 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by irvin View Post

Hey KX250F. Do you think the Valor has a more puncher sound than the Dynasty. I use to own a Valor and man did it hit hard ton of mid-bass slam. Now I own a Dragon, let me tell the Dragon is one amazing sub. It slams alittle harder than the Valor but the biggest upgrade is the sound quality and the effortless bass of the Dragon. I also love the sound of a good sealed sub.

Since I've had the Valor I've never put it in my theater and listened to it to be honest with you. I know in the second theater it sounds very good and punchy as well as loud. This game room as I call it is just a medium sized bedroom converted into a theater, it is less than half the size of my theater. My theater is in the basement so pretty much all the wall are concrete except the long wall to the right. Obviously the floor is concrete as well. The gaming theater is on the fourth floor of the house (Think Loft) so all wood floors, and walls. The Valor really connects with the room up there, but I think in the basement the Valor would struggle.

I don't feel I could really give you a honest comparison. The one thing I will say though is that the Valor was good but it always sounded boxy. I never got this impression with the JL's or now with the Submersives, but it also cost 1/4 the price of a Submersive and 1/7 the price of a F113.

The Dragon as well as the other Epiks look like very formidable subs, but I gotta tell you these Submersive's are growing on me each day.

If your happy with the Dragon then that's all that matters, and if it's getting the job done for you now I really see no sense in moving up to a Dynasty. I personally would stick with a sealed design no matter who the manufacturer is.
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post #3029 of 8062
10/27/09 at 7:37pm
I have a question I'd like to pose to my fellow Submersive enthusiast.

Which manufacturer do you think will be the first to imitate the Seaton Sound Submersive. Personally I think it's going to come from someone eventually.

As a example. Take the Toyota Prius, the best selling Hybrid since hybrids came out. Now look at the new Honda Insight. From a distance you can barely tell them apart.

We all know the saying "Imitation is the highest form of flatter".

So who do you guys think will "flatter" the Submersive first.

I think it will be one of the name brand speaker companies like Polk or Klipsch.


I'm just doing this out of good fun so don't nobody go getting there panties up in a bunch.
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post #3030 of 8062
10/27/09 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

Have some patience and don't go wasting your money on something else , trust me on this one Jeratt, your patience will pay off , like big time.

Mark does not just whip these SubMersives together, he puts each one together very carefully like its his own.

Hang tight, you time will come.

Whooo Hoooo, my order is offically in. Can't wait
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