Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 160

Originally Posted by Mark Seaton

Hi Mike,

Was that after testing with VLF sine waves? I suspect the wall Voltage dropped enough for the circuit monitoring in the amplifier to check things and/or things got especially hot, particularly if the amp came back to life just fine after a power cycle. Like with most electronics, first step should be to reboot. You should be fine. E-mail me directly if you see the issue come up again.

Originally Posted by MIkeDuke

I was watching WOTW. I can tell you exactlly where it happened. When the truck flies in the air and lands on the house there is that tremendous rumble and explosion. It happened right there. I guess I was worried because the lights were blinking four times and not three. I let it like that for awhile. Even after an hour it was still blinking like that. Then I said what the heck, it could not hurt, so I unplugged it. Then a few seconds later I plugged it back in. Now I am getting that nice steady green light. I should also say that I watched this movie right after I got finished watching TF2. So maybe it was just too much for too long.

Is it safe to say that your subs are all or nothing? That is, if I get a steady green light that I am %100 OK and not 87.3% OK? Or in other words, it either works or does not? I guess I reached limit in my room.

Originally Posted by MIkeDuke

I was watching WOTW. I can tell you exactlly where it happened. When the truck flies in the air and lands on the house there is that tremendous rumble and explosion. It happened right there. I guess I was worried because the lights were blinking four times and not three. I let it like that for awhile. Even after an hour it was still blinking like that. Then I said what the heck, it could not hurt, so I unplugged it. Then a few seconds later I plugged it back in. Now I am getting that nice steady green light. I should also say that I watched this movie right after I got finished watching TF2. So maybe it was just too much for too long.

Is it safe to say that your subs are all or nothing? That is, if I get a steady green light that I am %100 OK and not 87.3% OK? I guess I reached limit in my room.

Originally Posted by Mark Seaton

Most electronics fail at an all or nothing state. There is range of circuit and status monitoring internal to the HP amplifiers intended to protect the amp rather than letting things run away and chance failure. If the sub turns back on with a green power light (PWR) you should be ready to rock. Get back to enjoying and if you see this again shoot us an e-mail or give a call and we'll sleuth it out.

Originally Posted by Mark Seaton

Hi Mike,

Was that after testing with VLF sine waves? I suspect the wall Voltage dropped enough for the circuit monitoring in the amplifier to check things and/or things got especially hot, particularly if the amp came back to life just fine after a power cycle. Like with most electronics, first step should be to reboot. You should be fine. E-mail me directly if you see the issue come up again.

Originally Posted by audioguy

Trial and error as well. I used either The 5.1 Audio Toolkit that Mark provides or Avia. One of the options on those disks will play a signal out of a front and same-side rear speaker simultaneously. While sitting in the LP adjust the rear distance until the image from that signal appears to come from the center of that wall. You will need to switch between the setup screen on your prepro to adjust the distance and the playing of the DVD. Adjust by the .2 foot increments until the image is where you want it and repeat for the other side of the room. Works like a champ and will really improve the whole envelopment phenomenon. It is certainly possible that the distance Audyssey comes up with will be correct but it has not been for my room and my speakers. IIRC I changed the distance by .4 feet for both speakers. fWIW I used to try to accomplish the wall centering trick by increasing the volume of the rear speakers but this is a lot better way.

I'd like to say I came up with that idea but I stole it from Mark Seaton. (who else).

Originally Posted by MIkeDuke

Hey Craig, Yea, that conditioner was on. I know I have some stuff plugged into it. Craig, It took me a while to post what I did above what you just posted. Any thoughts about that? I guess I am just lucky about not tripping the breaker. So if it was the following "I suspect the wall Voltage dropped enough for the circuit monitoring in the amplifier to check things" what should I do. Just not play it as loud? Again, would switching the program mode help at all. Thanks for all the feedback guys. It has helped to lower my blood presure.

Originally Posted by craig john

I finally busted out my 5.1 Audio Toolkit and tried this. Quite a revealing process. First, I checked the L/R distances. Audyssey/Integra had set the left speaker slightly further, (0.2 ft.), than the right. When I played the pink noise from the L/R speakers, the phantom image produced was slightly pulled to the left. I reduced the left speaker distance by 0.2 ft, and made it identical to the right speaker distance. The phantom image immediately popped right into place in the middle of the front soundstage. I knew right then that I was on to something.

I then checked the L/C phantom image... perfect, right between the L and C speakers. The R/C was the same... dead on, so I knew the CC distance was correct. I then checked the R/RS. This phantom image was much closer to the R speaker, and no where near in the middle of the two. At this point, I decided to check the levels of the speakers before I proceeded any further.

The 5.1 Audio Toolkit has precisely recorded 75 dB test tones. I played them and found that the front 3 speakers were all set 2 to 3 dB lower than the surrounds. So, before I went any further, I reset the front speaker levels to equal the surrounds at 75 dB all the way around. (I then went back and verified that this didn't change anything from the previous distance setting checks on the front speakers... it hadn't.)

Going back to the R/RS, I again checked the phantom image with the pink noise. It was even worse now with the higher R speaker level setting. I increased the distance of the RS by 0.6 ft. This moved the phantom image to the exact middle between the R and RS speakers. Amazing!

I then did the same for the L/LS and RS/RRS and LS/LRS. The only one I didn't need to adjust was the RRS. All the others needed 0.2 to 0.4 ft. adjustments to center their phantom images.

Not being sure I could trust my ears on these phantom images, I decided to listen to something to verify that these changes were beneficial. I put in King Kong, starting with the "Finding the Footprint" chapter. At the beginning of this scene, the rescue party is walking through the forest and there are all kind of bugs flying around in the surrounds. These new settings added a new dimension to the depth and immersion, (and creepiness), of the surround field. A few moments later, rocks start falling into the canyon from overhead. The rocks clearly sounded like they were falling from overhead. Then the brontosaurs star stampeding through the canyon. As they hit the canyon walls and run into each other, the sound moves throughout the speakers. Yet it stays as one massive, immersive soundfield. Previously, there was always a bit of a disconnect between the front soundstage and the surrounds... almost like there was a hole between them. With the new settings the integration of the surround field with the front stage was seamless, increasing the size of the whole presentation. This was the best presentation of this scene I've ever heard on my system.

I should mention that I always use Neural THX Cinema mode for watching movies. This extracts rear surround channels for the R and L Rear Surround speakers. I really like Neural THX Cinema mode for movies. I also often use Neural THX Music mode for music.

Anyone who has a Submersive should also have the 5.1 Audio Toolkit and can do the same thing I just did. I'm impressed enough with the results that I can highly recommend checking this out. I simply suggest you write down your original settings so you can go back to them if you don't find this to be an improvement.

Mark, do you have any other little tricks or tweaks up your sleeve? audioguy, thanks for pointing out this technique.

Craig

Originally Posted by craig john

Hi Mike,

I doubt Prog 2 is the problem. It's more likely that everything was drawing current at the same time. However, if you want to try going back to Prog 1, you just need to flip the power off, depress the PGM SEL button and turn the power back on. You may need some help moving the sub out far enough to get at the switches.

The likely better solution is to plug some of your equipment into different circuits. Is that possible?

Craig

Originally Posted by MIkeDuke

I was watching WOTW. I can tell you exactlly where it happened. When the truck flies in the air and lands on the house there is that tremendous rumble and explosion. It happened right there.

Originally Posted by bossobass



BTW, I've enjoyed reading your posts for a long while. Your consistently great attitude and enthusiasm are a model for every sub-maniac.

Bosso

Originally Posted by MIkeDuke

I think the way my room is wired, it is all on one circurt. I would have to my electrician maybe run some more for that room. I would probably just see if I could one or two more in that room. Now, I am not an expert. Would that be just adding two more 15 amp outlets? If not how do I add more "circuts" to my room. Sorry if that is a bassic question.

Originally Posted by craig john

Mike,

The fact that everything is on one circuit is somewhat limiting. If you can find a way to at least plug your air purifier into another circuit, you'll free up some electrical circuit "headroom". Is there an outlet in your hallway outside your room that you could plug the air purifier into? Also, make sure there is nothing else on that circuit that would be using current... Is the bathroom on that same circuit? Do you have anything plugged in in there that could be using current? A rechargeable toothbrush, or shaver or anything like that?

Bottom line... find everything on that circuit and limit it's current use. That will free up current to supply your HT.

Craig

Originally Posted by Heinrich S

Let me ask you guys a question. I've never heard anyone say that the Submersive sounds boomy. Only tight and very well defined. I realize the sound of the room is important but just want to understand how the Submersive is able to maintain these musical qualities.

Originally Posted by MIkeDuke

When you say air purifier I am assuming you mean that tall fan that I have. That was not even on when I was playing the movie. The Bryston 4b-ST specs say this
1. Idle Current 186W
2. Stereo 8 Ohms (250W ea.) 1200W
3. Stereo 4 Ohms (400W ea.) 1920W
4. Bridged 8 Ohms (800W) 1944W
5. Max. Wattage 1944W
6. Max. Heat Dissipation 1144W / 3904 Btu/Hr
The 5b-ST does not list the specs but I can tell you that the 4b-ST really puts out 300x2 watts and the 5b-ST puts out 150x3. The bathroom may be on the same circuit and I only have an electric shaver that is plugged into one plug. I have a hair dryer also in the bathroom but I think that is on another circuit. The house is really wired strangely. Would cutting my amps down to one help? You know, maybe a 200x5 or 250x5 amp?

Originally Posted by craigsub

Mike - You have one heck of a great system. The small amount of money to get an electrician to your place and add the needed circuits to your room will be a very cost effective upgrade.

We had two 20 amp circuits put in here for about $300 complete. It will likely be more in your area, but still ... LOOK at the $$$$ you have tied up in it.

Originally Posted by craig john

Craig,

I completely agree with you. Adding more high amperage circuits makes the most sense, and would likely be the best solution to the problem. However, Mike's room is on the 2nd floor of his parent's house. The electrical service comes in through the basement. To get more 15 or 20 amp circuits up to his room would require some fairly extensive re-wiring that would impact his parent's house, (i.e., running wiring through multiple floors with the concomitant cuts and patches in drywall, along with repainting.) Even if Mike could pay for it, I'm not sure his parents would support it.

Given the current, (PI) limitations, I think his best bet is to limit any "outside" current use and to maximise the current availability to his HT system.

Craig (John)

Originally Posted by craig john

I finally busted out my 5.1 Audio Toolkit and tried this. Quite a revealing process. First, I checked the L/R distances. Audyssey/Integra had set the left speaker slightly further, (0.2 ft.), than the right. When I played the pink noise from the L/R speakers, the phantom image produced was slightly pulled to the left. I reduced the left speaker distance by 0.2 ft, and made it identical to the right speaker distance. The phantom image immediately popped right into place in the middle of the front soundstage. I knew right then that I was on to something.

Originally Posted by craig john

Craig,

I completely agree with you. Adding more high amperage circuits makes the most sense, and would likely be the best solution to the problem. However, Mike's room is on the 2nd floor of his parent's house. The electrical service comes in through the basement. To get more 15 or 20 amp circuits up to his room would require some fairly extensive re-wiring that would impact his parent's house, (i.e., running wiring through multiple floors with the concomitant cuts and patches in drywall, along with repainting.) Even if Mike could pay for it, I'm not sure his parents would support it.

Given the current, (PI) limitations, I think his best bet is to limit any "outside" current use and to maximise the current availability to his HT system.

Craig (John)

Originally Posted by craig john

I finally busted out my 5.1 Audio Toolkit and tried this. Quite a revealing process. First, I checked the L/R distances. Audyssey/Integra had set the left speaker slightly further, (0.2 ft.), than the right. When I played the pink noise from the L/R speakers, the phantom image produced was slightly pulled to the left. I reduced the left speaker distance by 0.2 ft, and made it identical to the right speaker distance. The phantom image immediately popped right into place in the middle of the front soundstage. I knew right then that I was on to something.

I then checked the L/C phantom image... perfect, right between the L and C speakers. The R/C was the same... dead on, so I knew the CC distance was correct. I then checked the R/RS. This phantom image was much closer to the R speaker, and no where near in the middle of the two. At this point, I decided to check the levels of the speakers before I proceeded any further.

The 5.1 Audio Toolkit has precisely recorded 75 dB test tones. I played them and found that the front 3 speakers were all set 2 to 3 dB lower than the surrounds. So, before I went any further, I reset the front speaker levels to equal the surrounds at 75 dB all the way around. (I then went back and verified that this didn't change anything from the previous distance setting checks on the front speakers... it hadn't.)

Going back to the R/RS, I again checked the phantom image with the pink noise. It was even worse now with the higher R speaker level setting. I increased the distance of the RS by 0.6 ft. This moved the phantom image to the exact middle between the R and RS speakers. Amazing!

I then did the same for the L/LS and RS/RRS and LS/LRS. The only one I didn't need to adjust was the RRS. All the others needed 0.2 to 0.4 ft. adjustments to center their phantom images.

Not being sure I could trust my ears on these phantom images, I decided to listen to something to verify that these changes were beneficial. I put in King Kong, starting with the "Finding the Footprint" chapter. At the beginning of this scene, the rescue party is walking through the forest and there are all kind of bugs flying around in the surrounds. These new settings added a new dimension to the depth and immersion, (and creepiness), of the surround field. A few moments later, rocks start falling into the canyon from overhead. The rocks clearly sounded like they were falling from overhead. Then the brontosaurs star stampeding through the canyon. As they hit the canyon walls and run into each other, the sound moves throughout the speakers. Yet it stays as one massive, immersive soundfield. Previously, there was always a bit of a disconnect between the front soundstage and the surrounds... almost like there was a hole between them. With the new settings the integration of the surround field with the front stage was seamless, increasing the size of the whole presentation. This was the best presentation of this scene I've ever heard on my system.

I should mention that I always use Neural THX Cinema mode for watching movies. This extracts rear surround channels for the R and L Rear Surround speakers. I really like Neural THX Cinema mode for movies. I also often use Neural THX Music mode for music.

Anyone who has a Submersive should also have the 5.1 Audio Toolkit and can do the same thing I just did. I'm impressed enough with the results that I can highly recommend checking this out. I simply suggest you write down your original settings so you can go back to them if you don't find this to be an improvement.

Mark, do you have any other little tricks or tweaks up your sleeve? audioguy, thanks for pointing out this technique.

Craig

Originally Posted by craig john


Anyone who has a Submersive should also have the 5.1 Audio Toolkit and can do the same thing I just did. I'm impressed enough with the results that I can highly recommend checking this out. I simply suggest you write down your original settings so you can go back to them if you don't find this to be an improvement.

Mark, do you have any other little tricks or tweaks up your sleeve? audioguy, thanks for pointing out this technique.

Craig

Originally Posted by BRAC

I didn't receive that disc with my SubMersive. I would love to try this on my system. Does Avia have these tones?



Mark,

Any chance you can still send me one of those test discs?

Originally Posted by parapet

What else is on that disc? I never got it with my purchase.

Originally Posted by pepar

Is this the Goldline disc that they are selling for $110?

Jeff