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Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 229

post #6841 of 8058
6/3/12 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

out of context, blah, blah. do the research.

It's not my first choice either. That's not the point. The point is that it is still a very legitimate way to set up a subwoofer, and it can be made to work quite well. Does Mark say *anywhere* that it causes pain, or is absurd or insane? No! He says it's not a "preference." Nonetheless, in some situations, it is the best or only alternative. A thoughtful person optimizes those alternatives as much as possible, which is exactly what Mark did in this situation. It was definitely NOT the "biggest mistake" as you've portrayed it.

Craig
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post #6842 of 8058
6/3/12 at 5:29pm
Gary, what is it that makes placing a sub 2' from the listening position that makes it absurd? If I had to choose between a spot with good, flat frequency response that happens to be 2' from the listening position or a spot further away with nulls and bumps, I'd pick the spot with the better frequency response, whether it's 2' or 20' from the listening position, then adjust the level accordingly.

Most people I have over when I have a movie playing also notice that the spot in my non-treated room that has the most bass is the opposite side of the room from where the sub is located. So basically, the bass from the subwoofer is "louder" at 14' from the subwoofer then it is 2' from the subwoofer so I doubt the level being too loud or too intense 2' from the subwoofer, would be an issue. Now if your talking 2' from the left, center or right speakers when the rest of the speakers are 10 feet away, then that would be a problem. Not so much with a subwoofer.
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post #6843 of 8058
6/3/12 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

Craig and Chuck, I do not know why you continue to feed the Troll. He does the same thing in every thread he subscribes to, some of the same ones I do. He thrives on being confrontational. I too now have a ULS 15 within 2' of my LP. I had a sound engineer visit my place a month ago and he swore the closest sub was not even on until I showed him the cone moving.

Hi HTG,

I wish I could let the inaccurate statements just slide, but when they are aimed directly at me, I can't do that. More importantly, he's being wrongfully critical of a system that belongs to a very good friend of mine, a system that my friend loves dearly, and is very important to him. His commentary is hurtful, and the fact that it is totally incorrect makes it absolutely unacceptable. I won't let that slide. My friend won't get into these arguments discussions, but I don't mind setting the record straight.

I'm sorry if that is "feeding the troll", but I will continue to call him out when he's wrong, which is not infrequent.

Craig
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post #6844 of 8058
6/3/12 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post


out of context, blah, blah. do the research.

Do you think Mark Seaton hasn't already done that?

Nobody is saying his setup is ideal, but given the room dimensions, furniture, possible WAF, etc. I'm sure Mark has the sub running in an optimal manner...and a "painless" one at that.
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post #6845 of 8058
6/3/12 at 7:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

do the research.

You officially get an F. It was your research assignment, not ours. Those of us who have experienced a nearfield subwoofer placement know that you're wrong. It's up to you to provide something... anything... to prove that there are "big mistakes" involved in nearfield subwoofer placement.

Craig
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post #6846 of 8058
6/3/12 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

Craig and Chuck, I do not know why you continue to feed the Troll. He does the same thing in every thread he subscribes to, some of the same ones I do. He thrives on being confrontational.

Confrontational is one thing. Inaccurate; insulting; grotesquely ill-informed; and clearly having zero understanding of acoustics but criticizing others on the subject; (to name a few) is another. I really do not understand why the Mods allow his behavior to continue. He adds no real value unless sarcastic criticism of other posters is considered adding value.
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post #6847 of 8058
6/3/12 at 7:42pm
Dr. Hsu from Hsu Research built a mid bass sub called the MBM-12 just for nearfield placement next to or behind the seat. Was he also wrong?
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post #6848 of 8058
6/3/12 at 7:44pm
I have tried nearfield placement for my subs and Damn that was fun!

So what's wrong with near field placement Gary? Preference or fact to you?
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post #6849 of 8058
6/3/12 at 7:47pm
Has anyone asked a moderator to step in and clean up the last page or two of post? It adds nothing to the conversation.
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post #6850 of 8058
6/3/12 at 11:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

out of context, blah, blah. do the research.

How's this for context? Why would you quote only a small portion of Mark's statement on the subject? Oh right, it doesn't bolster your delusion.

Chris

Originally Posted by Mark Seaton
Extreme near field placement is actually not a preference of mine when it is not a necessity. I generally prefer to keep 4-6' of distance or prefer when there is also a subwoofer placed in the front stage with delay applied for the near sub. As well demonstrated here, near field placement can work very well in some rooms, especially for limited seating areas.

The bigger issue and goal is to find an efficient transfer of bass energy from the subwoofer to the listener across the spectrum. There are a variety of ways this can be achieved, and while measurements greatly help quantify limitations or guide improvements, enjoyment of the system is the final measure.
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post #6851 of 8058
6/3/12 at 11:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudda View Post

How's this for context? Why would you quote only a small portion of Mark's statement on the subject? Oh right, it doesn't bolster your delusion.

Chris

Originally Posted by Mark Seaton
Extreme near field placement is actually not a preference of mine when it is not a necessity. I generally prefer to keep 4-6' of distance or prefer when there is also a subwoofer placed in the front stage with delay applied for the near sub. As well demonstrated here, near field placement can work very well in some rooms, especially for limited seating areas.

The bigger issue and goal is to find an efficient transfer of bass energy from the subwoofer to the listener across the spectrum. There are a variety of ways this can be achieved, and while measurements greatly help quantify limitations or guide improvements, enjoyment of the system is the final measure.

Thanks for that. Yup, paints quite a different picture.

Game, set & match.


Max
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post #6852 of 8058
6/4/12 at 4:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post

Do you think Mark Seaton hasn't already done that?

Nobody is saying his setup is ideal, but given the room dimensions, furniture, possible WAF, etc. I'm sure Mark has the sub running in an optimal manner...and a "painless" one at that.

You mean Craigs. Is the sub still there a 2'? Are you sure? Maybe he tried a little harder to find a spot not so crazy and forgot to mention it. Is that possible?
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post #6853 of 8058
6/4/12 at 5:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post


You mean Craigs. Is the sub still there a 2'? Are you sure? Maybe he tried a little harder to find a spot not so crazy and forgot to mention it. Is that possible?

No, I meant Mark. You told me to "do the research." How do you propose I research the customer's room? His preferences? His WAF? There are A LOT of very knowledge people here I ask for help about a myriad of things. When it comes to subs, I don't know ANYONE more knowledge than Mark Seaton. (Who knows, maybe you're that guy). Therefore when he designs a sub, delivers it to the customer's house, places it in the room and does his work to maximize the performance, I'm going to make a "crazy" assumption that the sub isn't in a "crazy" place, much less one giving the customer (who at this point has spent well over $2,000) pain in his ears.

My research is seeing what Mark has done and going with that.

"You can get a good look at a t-bone by sticking your head up a bull's ass, but wouldn't you rather take the butcher's word for it?" - Tommy Boy
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post #6854 of 8058
6/4/12 at 5:46am
Wow. Are we back to placement issues again. I know Garry will slam me again, but truthfully, I really don't give a crap what he thinks. I had a 1000 watt version of the sub setup near field, by Mr.Seaton himself. It was not his first choice but it was what I was able to do. When he was done he felt very satisfied and it measured pretty good after EQ without any room treatments at all. So I really don't understand what all this is about. I expect Gary to come in and say how my system probably sounds like crap and that I and Mark S and Dennis(who is a musician BTW) and Craig don't know what we are talking about. All I can say is that to me, it sounds fantastic and everyone else who has heard it feels the same. Near field placement does not mean that a sub is automatically going to sound bad. It also does not mean you have to get a 10in sub if you do have to place it near the main seating position and have a small room. It's all about the setup and how much head room you would like. At least that's my, take on this sub woofer stuff.

Then, my room changed. I got new racks, new treatments and eventually new chairs. I also decided to get the 2400 watt amp because I wanted to. Also, so I would have the latest and greatest . When Craig and Dennis were kind enough to come over again, and help me change out the amp, we moved the sub out of the corner and about 1/3 up my long wall. That, plus Audyessy and the SMS-1 really made a big difference in my room. So all this B.S of a sub being 2 in from your ear not being able to sound good is just that. B.S. When I had it in the corner, where Mark put it in the first place, I never had any complaints whatsoever from anybody. Now, it is just a bit further away and since Craig helped me out with the Audyessy setup, it sounds even better. So I don't know what else to say about that. If you look back, you will see that not only does my room sound good, as related from the posts by Craig, but it also measures very good.
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post #6855 of 8058
6/4/12 at 6:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post

No, I meant Mark. You told me to "do the research." How do you propose I research the customer's room?

Ok I will do it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

You didn't get the memo, huh? We MOVED the sub. It's now about 5 feet from the LP.

What they call - Case Rested.

I have gotten some great direct and personal information on this forum about and helping my HT from people such as Chris from Audyssey, some Runco people and, of course, Mark Seaton. Everything else folks, if it does not look like a big, fat gold nugget run it through your sifter. It's been kind of fun though going with an unpopular opinion in one of the biggest fanboy threads. Carry on.

Oh, and never put a HP two feet from your head.
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post #6856 of 8058
6/4/12 at 6:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post


Ok I will do it for you.

What they call - Case Rested.

I have gotten some great direct and personal information on this forum about and helping my HT from people such as Chris from Audyssey, some Runco people and, of course, Mark Seaton. Everything else folks, if it does not look like a big, fat gold nugget run it through your sifter. It's been kind of fun though going with an unpopular opinion in one of the biggest fanboy threads. Carry on.

Oh, and never put a HP two feet from your head.

Are you ever going to explain why nearfield is bad? I dont really care who helped you here im just curious to see your reasoning
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post #6857 of 8058
6/4/12 at 6:57am
Great, they moved the sub. OK. I'm still failing to understand why the original placement was "crazy", "absurd", or a "pain to the ears."

Please help me understand.
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post #6858 of 8058
6/4/12 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post

Great, they moved the sub. OK. I'm still failing to understand why the original placement was "crazy", "absurd", or a "pain to the ears."

Please help me understand.

Especially since it might have been 2' linear from the edge of the seat at the floor, but it was at least 3-4' actual distance from the head...

So there... Gary's postulation is still not proven either way, as Mike's system has always had the subwoofer's acoustic center more than 3' from his head, and sounded quite good.
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post #6859 of 8058
6/4/12 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Wow. Are we back to placement issues again. I know Garry will slam me again, but truthfully, I really don't give a crap what he thinks. I had a 1000 watt version of the sub setup near field, by Mr.Seaton himself. It was not his first choice but it was what I was able to do. When he was done he felt very satisfied and it measured pretty good after EQ without any room treatments at all. So I really don't understand what all this is about. I expect Gary to come in and say how my system probably sounds like crap and that I and Mark S and Dennis(who is a musician BTW) and Craig don't know what we are talking about. All I can say is that to me, it sounds fantastic and everyone else who has heard it feels the same. Near field placement does not mean that a sub is automatically going to sound bad. It also does not mean you have to get a 10in sub if you do have to place it near the main seating position and have a small room. It's all about the setup and how much head room you would like. At least that's my, take on this sub woofer stuff.

Then, my room changed. I got new racks, new treatments and eventually new chairs. I also decided to get the 2400 watt amp because I wanted to. Also, so I would have the latest and greatest . When Craig and Dennis were kind enough to come over again, and help me change out the amp, we moved the sub out of the corner and about 1/3 up my long wall. That, plus Audyessy and the SMS-1 really made a big difference in my room. So all this B.S of a sub being 2 in from your ear not being able to sound good is just that. B.S. When I had it in the corner, where Mark put it in the first place, I never had any complaints whatsoever from anybody. Now, it is just a bit further away and since Craig helped me out with the Audyessy setup, it sounds even better. So I don't know what else to say about that. If you look back, you will see that not only does my room sound good, as related from the posts by Craig, but it also measures very good.

Thanks for jumping in here and adding those details Mike. I would add that the reason we moved the sub had nothing to do with moving it out of a nearfield position, and had everything to do with an issue you were having related to Audyssey's Volume Normalization algorithm. That is far too complex a topic for Gari to understand, which you will see in my next post...
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post #6860 of 8058
6/4/12 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

What they call - Case Rested.

You should change your username to "Cherry Picker" because that's all you do. You took that quote completely out of context. Here is the rest of the quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

You didn't get the memo, huh? We MOVED the sub. It's now about 5 feet from the LP.

I linked to that post, not to talk about the placement of Mike's SubM, but to point out the graph showing the boost of the lowest frequencies that Audyssey can invoke, but which you seem to blindly believe it can not do. It does this because of it's "volume normalization" algorithm. VN is NOT a "zero sum" game. (Actually, the term you want is "unity gain", not "zero sum.") If Audyssey were to use a "unity gain" algorithm instead of it's "volume normalization" algorithm, it would not cause these ULF boosts.

Here is the post in the Audyssey thread were the graph and VN are explained:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post16982682

And here is the post where audyssey, (Chris K.) confirms that this is the issue:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post16984527

Please read those posts and try to comprehend them before you respond so we can have an intelligent discussion about this issue.

Craig

We never did get to have that "intelligent discussion", and it doesn't look like we ever will. Instead, we were treated to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Admittedly my interest in all of this does not rise to your level and my golf swing is in need of a bit more fine tuning than my sub. However, I see Chris's one sentence response. Maybe I will get to take a better look but at first glance what catches my eye in that post is - "the before and after Audyssey average SPL levels will not measure precisely equal, but nevertheless they will sound about the same level." ...."not measure precisely equal" means pretty darn close, right?

Isn't there a golf forum somewhere you can join. They can probably help you with your swing. Clearly, it is futile to try to teach you anything on this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

I have gotten some great direct and personal information on this forum about and helping my HT from people such as Chris from Audyssey, some Runco people and, of course, Mark Seaton. Everything else folks, if it does not look like a big, fat gold nugget run it through your sifter.

You know what's ironic Gari? You are a "True Believer" when it comes to Audyssey and it's ability to nearly perfectly correct just about any room or subwoofer placement. So why is it so hard for you to understand that Audyssey can calibrate and EQ a nearfield subwoofer placement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

It's been kind of fun though going with an unpopular opinion in one of the biggest fanboy threads. Carry on.

Ahhhhhh.... that explains it. You are a Troll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Oh, and never put a HP two feet from your head.

Might I suggest where you can place yours...

Craig
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post #6861 of 8058
6/4/12 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


Might I suggest where you can place yours...

Craig

Yes you may. And I second the vote !
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post #6862 of 8058
6/4/12 at 11:41am
Knock it off guys...
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post #6863 of 8058
6/4/12 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Thanks for jumping in here and adding those details Mike. I would add that the reason we moved the sub had nothing to do with moving it out of a nearfield position, and had everything to do with an issue you were having related to Audyssey's Volume Normalization algorithm. That is far too complex a topic for Gari to understand, which you will see in my next post...

Your right about why we moved the sub Craig. It was not that it was in a near field position but I think it was because you guys thought it would give Audyssey a better starting spot. Anyway, the post that follows was great.
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post #6864 of 8058
6/4/12 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Your right about why we moved the sub Craig. It was not that it was in a near field position but I think it was because you guys thought it would give Audyssey a better starting spot. Anyway, the post that follows was great.

Hi Mike,

To flush this out a little better, we made several changes to your system to try to address what we thought was Audyssey boosting the infrasonics due to it's Volume Normalization algorithm. This boosting was causing your amp to shut down. Our goal was to reduce the infrasonic boosting, but we needed to understand what was causing the boosting in order to deal with it. Mark had previously measured your system and found a huge peak, (20+ dB ), at 40 to 45 Hz at your listening position. Here is a measurement I took of that same peak:



This huge peak was causing Audyssey to set a commensurate amount of cut in that same range of frequencies. The huge cut lowered the overall level significantly. Audyssey then used it's "Volume Normalization" algorithm to raise the overall level to compensate. Since Audyssey doesn't discriminate by frequency in this Volume Normalization process, it raises the levels of the infrasonics along with all other frequencies. (Did I say this was complicated?)

This process was depicted graphically in the link I posted but I'll repost the graph again here:



The area in the red circle is the infrasonic boost. Note that this is the electrical subwoofer signal output of the pre/pro, not the actual acoustic output of the subwoofer itself. The subwoofer is being sent a signal that is 10 dB higher in the infrasonic range than baseline due to the Volume Normalization process.

To combat this, we tried several options. The goal was to reduce the peak at 40-45 Hz so that Audyssey didn't need to provide so much cut at those frequencies... and therefore not provide so much overall level increase to all frequencies, including the infrasonics.

First we moved the sub out of the corner, hoping this might reduce the peak somewhat. It had little, if any, effect. (***Detail: The peak at your listening position is not a room mode. Your room is small enough that it transitions to "Pressure Vessel Gain",(PVG), at these frequencies. A 40 Hz wave has a wavelength of over 28 feet. Your room is 12.5 x 9 ft. A 40 Hz wave, with it's much longer wavelength, doesn't "resonate" within your room and form standing waves, or modes, which vary in intensity at different positions within the room. A 40 Hz wave experiences "Pressure Vessel Gain", which is basically equivalent pressure increase throughout the entire room. IOW, the gain, or peak, is virtually the same at your LP, no matter the in-room position of the sub. Moving your sub out of the nearfield to virtually any other position in your room will have very little impact on this peak at your LP.)

Next, we setup the SMS-1 with 3 bands, providing 9 to 12 dB of narrow Q cut in the 40 - 45 Hz range, to reduce that huge peak in your response. This helped, but unfortunately it didn't solve your problem with the amp shutting down.

Finally we set a 12 Hz, 48 db/octave subsonic filter in the SMS-1. That solved the amp shutdown problem, without a noticeable sonic, or infrasonic, detriment.

All this yielded the following pre-Audyssey response:



Running Audyssey to the above yielded the following response:



This system and response sounded incredible. Mark then took this info and made some minor modifications to the amp to allow it to better handle these infrasonic boosts. After we installed the modded amp, we were able to remove the subsonic filter in the SMS-1 and still have the amp avoid the shutdown problem.

The bottom line in all this is that the Customer Service provided by Mark Seaton is FAR BEYOND anything provided any other manufacturer. He was actively involved in this entire process; he guided all of it; he instructed us throughout the process, and we all learned a lot by having gone through it.

The other thing we learned is that nearfield placement, whether it is 2 ft., 3 ft, or 5 ft. from the LP is immaterial. Any placement can be optimized. How much work it takes to optimize the response is a function of the listening position as much as it is the room and subwoofer placement.

Mike, your system sounds incredible. Please don't let anyone, especially someone who has never heard it, make you question what you are hearing and enjoying.

Craig
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post #6865 of 8058
6/5/12 at 1:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

(***Detail: The peak at your listening position is not a room mode. Your room is small enough that it transitions to "Pressure Vessel Gain",(PVG), at these frequencies. A 40 Hz wave has a wavelength of over 28 feet. Your room is 12.5 x 9 ft. A 40 Hz wave, with it's much longer wavelength, doesn't "resonate" within your room and form standing waves, or modes, which vary in intensity at different positions within the room.

When I plug in room dimensions of 12.5' x 9' x 8' into a room mode calculator, it reports the first long axis mode is 45.2 Hz, exactly where XTZ reported the peak.

Here's why:
Quote:
If a medium is bounded such that its opposite ends can be considered fixed, nodes will then be found at the ends. The simplest standing wave that can form under these circumstances has one antinode in the middle. This is half a wavelength. To make the next possible standing wave, place a node in the center. We now have one whole wavelength.
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post #6866 of 8058
6/6/12 at 5:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


Hi Mike,


To flush this out a little better, we made several changes to your system to try to address what we thought was Audyssey boosting the infrasonics due to it's Volume Normalization algorithm. This boosting was causing your amp to shut down. Our goal was to reduce the infrasonic boosting, but we needed to understand what was causing the boosting in order to deal with it. Mark had previously measured your system and found a huge peak, (20+ dB
), at 40 to 45 Hz at your listening position. Here is a measurement I took of that same peak:





This huge peak was causing Audyssey to set a commensurate amount of cut in that same range of frequencies. The huge cut lowered the overall level significantly. Audyssey then used it's "Volume Normalization" algorithm to raise the overall level to compensate. Since Audyssey doesn't discriminate by frequency in this Volume Normalization process, it raises the levels of the infrasonics along with all other frequencies. (Did I say this was complicated?)


This process was depicted graphically in the link I posted but I'll repost the graph again here:





The area in the red circle is the infrasonic boost. Note that this is the electrical subwoofer signal output of the pre/pro, not the actual acoustic output of the subwoofer itself. The subwoofer is being sent a signal that is 10 dB higher in the infrasonic range than baseline due to the Volume Normalization process.


To combat this, we tried several options. The goal was to reduce the peak at 40-45 Hz so that Audyssey didn't need to provide so much cut at those frequencies... and therefore not provide so much overall level increase to all frequencies, including the infrasonics.


First we moved the sub out of the corner, hoping this might reduce the peak somewhat. It had little, if any, effect. (***Detail: The peak at your listening position is not a room mode. Your room is small enough that it transitions to "Pressure Vessel Gain",(PVG), at these frequencies. A 40 Hz wave has a wavelength of over 28 feet. Your room is 12.5 x 9 ft. A 40 Hz wave, with it's much longer wavelength, doesn't "resonate" within your room and form standing waves, or modes, which vary in intensity at different positions within the room. A 40 Hz wave experiences "Pressure Vessel Gain", which is basically equivalent pressure increase throughout the entire room. IOW, the gain, or peak, is virtually the same at your LP, no matter the in-room position of the sub. Moving your sub out of the nearfield to virtually any other position in your room will have very little impact on this peak at your LP.)


Next, we setup the SMS-1 with 3 bands, providing 9 to 12 dB of narrow Q cut in the 40 - 45 Hz range, to reduce that huge peak in your response. This helped, but unfortunately it didn't solve your problem with the amp shutting down.


Finally we set a 12 Hz, 48 db/octave subsonic filter in the SMS-1. That solved the amp shutdown problem, without a noticeable sonic, or infrasonic, detriment.


All this yielded the following pre-Audyssey response:





Running Audyssey to the above yielded the following response:





This system and response sounded incredible. Mark then took this info and made some minor modifications to the amp to allow it to better handle these infrasonic boosts. After we installed the modded amp, we were able to remove the subsonic filter in the SMS-1 and still have the amp avoid the shutdown problem.


The bottom line in all this is that the Customer Service provided by Mark Seaton is FAR BEYOND anything provided any other manufacturer. He was actively involved in this entire process; he guided all of it; he instructed us throughout the process, and we all learned a lot by having gone through it.


The other thing we learned is that nearfield placement, whether it is 2 ft., 3 ft, or 5 ft. from the LP is immaterial. Any placement can be optimized. How much work it takes to optimize the response is a function of the listening position as much as it is the room and subwoofer placement.


Mike, your system sounds incredible.
Please don't let anyone, especially someone who has never heard it, make you question what you are hearing and enjoying.


Craig
Thanks for giving that great explanation again Craig. I still am impressed at the way you can break these issues down in such a way that even I can understand them. You really did a lot of work helping me out and I really appreciated that. As well as Dennis. I also have to agree that Mark's customer service with an issue that I alone had, was way beyond what I would expect. I mean, we really "fixed" the issue with the subsonic filter but that was not acceptable to Mark. The fact that he helped with the diagnosis and then made a modification to an amp and sent me out that amp was simply more than I expected. Trust me, I am quite happy with how my system sounds and I am not going to let anyone who has never heard it change my mind on that. If you check out my thread you can see how much I like the way my system sounds now. Just as a reminder, those charts above are with the sub in program one I believe. Which is where I have set now.
Edited by MIkeDuke - 6/6/12 at 6:22am
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post #6867 of 8058
6/6/12 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


Running Audyssey to the above yielded the following response:




This system and response sounded incredible. Mark then took this info and made some minor modifications to the amp to allow it to better handle these infrasonic boosts. After we installed the modded amp, we were able to remove the subsonic filter in the SMS-1 and still have the amp avoid the shutdown problem.

The bottom line in all this is that the Customer Service provided by Mark Seaton is FAR BEYOND anything provided any other manufacturer. He was actively involved in this entire process; he guided all of it; he instructed us throughout the process, and we all learned a lot by having gone through it.
Craig

I agree. Mike's system sounds excellent after all the changes and effort put into optimizing the system to the room. I remember how it was when I first visited - a very asymmetrical setup with the main speakers at varying distances, TV and center channel off center due to the position of audio racks, no room correction at the time, mismatched surround speakers pointing toward the front of the room, etc.

Mike has graciously allowed us to make MAJOR changes to his system. Craig and I basically completely tore it down and re-built it. We placed the front stage symmetrically, moved just about every piece of furniture and equipment, Installed matching surround speakers in better locations. We suggested some new equipment, such as the Oppo BDP-83 and the Integra 80.2, which Mike bought and added to the system. This gave him Audyssey XT32, which really helped to smooth out the FR and pull everything together. Craig put in a ton of time in running Audyssey calibrations, measuring results, trying various tweaks, and discovering what the system needed to perform better in the room. Of course, along the way there were technical glitches to overcome, which Craig has detailed above, but patience and perseverance have definately paid off, and Mike now has an excellent performing system, with which he is very happy.

Mark Seaton's Submersive HP subs are extremely capable and great sounding subs, no doubt. But his customer service is excellent, as evidenced by him taking the time to listen, understand, diagnose, and fix Mike's issue with a custom solution. That is really something special, and is a big reason why I plan to buy a set of Submersive HP subs from him.
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post #6868 of 8058
6/6/12 at 10:30am
Thanks for the comments Dennis. Your help was most welcomed as well. I was NOT into changing anything in my room because I felt it would be too much work. But you guys did it without any problems whatsoever. I have to say, I was pretty impressed with that .You two pushing me to get Integra and the OPPO so I could get full HD playback as opposed to just the core HD audio was a big deal. Also, getting surrounds and having you guys install them as well was a big deal for me. Even when I got my new chairs, you two were really set on even making sure the main chair was centered when I was just happy where it was first placed in the room. Having you guys do the measurements and setting up the speakers the right way really made a huge difference. What you guys did, the way you helped me out, is something that I could never do in my own. Even the one dealer I have did not want to mess with moving my stuff around. But you guys(Mark included) wanted me to have the best experience and get the most out of my system. So again, thanks for all the help. Now, at least to me, it is one damn fine sounding system biggrin.gif.
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post #6869 of 8058
6/6/12 at 12:06pm
To get this back on track, Dennis, a "set of SubMersive HP's"(2?) that should be a nice addition to your Legacy speakers. I know the Legacy speakers are pretty sensitive so you should be pushing some serious SPL when you get everything setup. You have heard them enough times at Craig's house and my house to know what they are all about.
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post #6870 of 8058
6/6/12 at 3:26pm
Going with the Denon 4311ci and Audyssey XT32. The Pio SC-57 will go to the living room for music & etc duties. I will keep the Anti Mode Dual Core for calibrating my 3 Submersives. Audyssey can do it's thing from what Dual core has set.
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