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Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 232

post #6931 of 8068
6/20/12 at 1:27am
Hi Mark,

I guess both, a SubM XL and a SubM "Mini" would be a great deal and tremendously extend your potential customer base, especially here in Europe, where I come from. People over here more often demand small subs than in the US, but there are hardly ones to find, which have enough power to hit really hard (which is of course not an easy task given the physical boundaries of such a design). Some American manufacturers such as Sunfire and Velodyne already seem to have realized that a market for such subs exists here, but Sunfire subs are not as powerful as Seaton designs and the Velos are extremely overpriced. But what is most important in the first place, is a 240V SubM HP becoming finally available. You must be very tired of having to put off all these potential buyers time and time again. Therefore I'll spare you answering this question once again.

Instead, I have a more technical question regarding the 240V HP: Would there be any differences or benefits in the performance of a 240V SubM HP compared to the 120V version?

Another question: What are the benefits of the HP's DSP-settings, when users are not able to make any changes? It cannot result in any room optimization as long as changes aren't possible. Is it just to change the sub's characteristics a little bit depending on its use (music or movies)?
Edited by Dustcap - 6/21/12 at 6:13am
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post #6932 of 8068
6/21/12 at 7:23pm
fun seaton moment
came home from my ballgame - teenage daughter comes up to me and goes DAD DAD -
you got to hear this - anyhow they had watched Project X
holysmokes the music on the soundtrack pounds
over the top bass heavy but great recording and fits the film
tight and very weighty
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post #6933 of 8068
6/22/12 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustcap View Post

Another question: What are the benefits of the HP's DSP-settings, when users are not able to make any changes? It cannot result in any room optimization as long as changes aren't possible. Is it just to change the sub's characteristics a little bit depending on its use (music or movies)?

As a second DSP question, given the availability today of very sophisticated outboard processors would a DSP Bypass switch be a good thing? This would avoid equalizing twice using two different programs and also avoid a second A/D D/A conversion. You could make the switch difficult to change to avoid accidents.
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post #6934 of 8068
6/22/12 at 9:52am
^^^

two different things...

the onboard eq is getting the response of the sub itself correct...

the outboard eq is getting the response of the room correct...

fwiw, a/d/a conversions are harmless....
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post #6935 of 8068
7/4/12 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

fwiw, a/d/a conversions are harmless....

Not according to the lunatic fringe. And by the way, that occurs in the SubMersive
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post #6936 of 8068
7/4/12 at 2:32pm
^^^

lol... biggrin.gif yea, true dat... never ceases to amaze me what some will "believe", even though it's completely irrational...

those of us on the lunatic fringe of subwoofage*, otoh, are entirely rational... tongue.gif

* and heck, i'm not really even there with my measly dual hp's... although my friends seem to think i am... smile.gif
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post #6937 of 8068
7/6/12 at 6:26pm
So for those running more than 1 of a SubMersive HP, Captivator or similar high-powered subwoofer/amp combo...

I think it's safe to presume that you all have fully fleshed out home theater set-ups. Is it common knowledge/sense to have separate 20A circuits installed? I'm planning on running 2 SubMersive HPs, a 5-channel 400WPC power amplifier + 5 speakers, receiver, LCD TV, etc... and i'm guessing at the minimum, I should have two independent 20a circuits -- 1 for each socket of an outlet. I'm planning on having the power amp on one circuit, and the 2 SubM's and all other electronics on another circuit. I listen typically at -15 on the receiver and all the way down to -8, and I run my subs about 10dB hot. Does this seem like a safe bet?

Also, i'm just not sure whether i'm getting a good deal on the installation. I invited an electrician over to scope it out and the lines would have to be run through a conduit outside of the house all the way to the circuit box, which is about a 100 ft. distance and so 500 ft. of wire, so he says. For 2 circuits, I was quoted at about around $700. The guy seemed pretty honest and even suggested getting quotes from other electricians, or even buying and providing the wire myself to save a little money. Does this quote seem fair?

Not really willing to DIY because the thought of tearing up drywall frightens me. Opinions and personal experiences please?
Edited by loopaddiction - 7/6/12 at 8:54pm
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post #6938 of 8068
7/6/12 at 6:56pm
I have 3 20amp circuits. One for each of my sub amps and the other powers everything else (4311ci, Cinenova Grande, SMS-1, etc). I've never had any problems tripping breakers even at reference levels. cool.gif
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post #6939 of 8068
7/6/12 at 8:45pm
I'm using 2, 20 amp plugins for my room.
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post #6940 of 8068
7/6/12 at 9:20pm

I am using three 120V 20 Amp & one 240V 45 Amp circuits in my temp HT.

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post #6941 of 8068
7/6/12 at 9:32pm
When I had my dual Captivators I was using a ep4000 to power them both, and just had a 15 amp line shared with a small freezer and dorm fridge, lights in a utility room, and I never once tripped the breaker. Currently I have a Submersive on that same line and the other Submersive on a 30 amp line that is shared with a ton of things, seemingly most of the rooms above me. I haven't tripped them with the Submersives either.

Keep in mind I have had these subs at insanely loud levels too. I don't understand it, I think I have some kind of breaker magic going on down here.
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post #6942 of 8068
7/8/12 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopaddiction View Post

So for those running more than 1 of a SubMersive HP, Captivator or similar high-powered subwoofer/amp combo...
I think it's safe to presume that you all have fully fleshed out home theater set-ups. Is it common knowledge/sense to have separate 20A circuits installed? I'm planning on running 2 SubMersive HPs, a 5-channel 400WPC power amplifier + 5 speakers, receiver, LCD TV, etc... and i'm guessing at the minimum, I should have two independent 20a circuits -- 1 for each socket of an outlet. I'm planning on having the power amp on one circuit, and the 2 SubM's and all other electronics on another circuit. I listen typically at -15 on the receiver and all the way down to -8, and I run my subs about 10dB hot. Does this seem like a safe bet?
Also, i'm just not sure whether i'm getting a good deal on the installation. I invited an electrician over to scope it out and the lines would have to be run through a conduit outside of the house all the way to the circuit box, which is about a 100 ft. distance and so 500 ft. of wire, so he says. For 2 circuits, I was quoted at about around $700. The guy seemed pretty honest and even suggested getting quotes from other electricians, or even buying and providing the wire myself to save a little money. Does this quote seem fair?
Not really willing to DIY because the thought of tearing up drywall frightens me. Opinions and personal experiences please?

Sounds like about $250 in material if you were buying on your own. I'm sure he gest a better price.

In the LA area I would assume electricians charge $75 - $100 an hour? Seems like a fair deal but hard to tell
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post #6943 of 8068
7/9/12 at 1:59pm
Has anyone tried their Submersive(s) in a down and up firing postition?
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post #6944 of 8068
7/9/12 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Has anyone tried their Submersive(s) in a down and up firing postition?

Sure thing Bill. I get my wife and kids to each hold a Submersive 2 feet off the floor. It has done wonders for their upper body strength biggrin.gif

Seriously, how do you propose to hold the Submersives down and up firing? That woud probably create a much shorter distance to the bottom boundary (floor), and the top boundary (ceiling).

I know you have a method in mind and it will be good to hear some discussion of such placement. smile.gif
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post #6945 of 8068
7/11/12 at 5:32pm
I presently have a Outlaw plus and EX. I have been planing on eventually buying a pair of seaton subs. My question is, would one sub be better than my pair of outlaws?
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post #6946 of 8068
7/11/12 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I presently have a Outlaw plus and EX. I have been planing on eventually buying a pair of seaton subs. My question is, would one sub be better than my pair of outlaws?
One SubM HP will have more output and deeper extension than your Outlaws. However, it may not sound "better." With two subs, you can place them to even out the response over more seats. If you've done this, and you can't find a single placement for the SubM that has equivalent response, it may not sound as good as the two Outlaws. Some of that can be addressed with room correction/EQ, but placement of the sub and the listening position will be the first things to address.

Craig
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post #6947 of 8068
7/11/12 at 6:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

One SubM HP will have more output and deeper extension than your Outlaws. However, it may not sound "better." With two subs, you can place them to even out the response over more seats. If you've done this, and you can't find a single placement for the SubM that has equivalent response, it may not sound as good as the two Outlaws. Some of that can be addressed with room correction/EQ, but placement of the sub and the listening position will be the first things to address.
Craig
Thanks, the placement would be near placement. What if I was to keep the EX and add a subm hp? Would they play well together?
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post #6948 of 8068
7/11/12 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Thanks, the placement would be near placement. What if I was to keep the EX and add a subm hp? Would they play well together?
It would be a chore to integrate them. The SubM has much deeper extension than the ported Outlaw. The Outlaw would just hold the SubM back. I would probably not even bother.

Craig
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post #6949 of 8068
7/11/12 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Thanks, the placement would be near placement. What if I was to keep the EX and add a subm hp? Would they play well together?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


It would be a chore to integrate them. The SubM has much deeper extension than the ported Outlaw. The Outlaw would just hold the SubM back. I would probably not even bother.
Craig

I currently have 2 FTW21in drivers powered by 2 EP4000 bridged integrated with a pair of EX's. They sound incredible together in my room, and the outlaws don't run out of steam they way I have them setup.

 

It can be done, but you need the right equipment to dial them in. However, I probably wouldn't recommend 1 SubM and 1 EX. That would be more difficult to get right since you would essentially want to level match them to get a smooth FR...the EX would definitely run out of steam. However, 2 SubMs to get a smooth FR, and then add in the EX nearfield would definitely be an option. You wouldn't have to run the EX as loud, and just use it for the tactile shaking.

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post #6950 of 8068
7/12/12 at 2:24am
One question regarding placement of the SubM: Did you experience any differences in the SubM's sound between side firing placement and front firing? In other words: Does it make a difference between one driver facing towards the listening position and both drivers facing sideways?
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post #6951 of 8068
7/13/12 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustcap View Post

One question regarding placement of the SubM: Did you experience any differences in the SubM's sound between side firing placement and front firing? In other words: Does it make a difference between one driver facing towards the listening position and both drivers facing sideways?

With the pair of opposed drivers, the virtual or effective acoustic location of the subwoofer is in the center of the box between the two woofers. As such, rotating the 17.5" x 23" footprint makes a very minor change in effective position. So long as you leave ~3" in front of the driver or grill, you can orient the SubMersive any way you like in a corner. With frequencies below 80Hz, there really isn't much of a front or rear projection of sound for conventional subwoofers. The bass radiates in all directions equally from a driver (or port at the frequencies the port operates).
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post #6952 of 8068
7/27/12 at 10:37am
not sure if you guys check out Mark's site but he posted some pics of submersives added to a full
Rockport speaker system set-up -
that is some heavy artililery
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/Rockport-speaker-system-with-3-SubMersive-HPs-5947063
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post #6953 of 8068
7/27/12 at 12:08pm
Yep saw that. It is one top notch system with some really high end gear.
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post #6954 of 8068
7/28/12 at 7:48pm
Hi Guys,

I am thinking of buying a submersive HP. The sub needs to fit under my wall-mounted TV and I need to put my center channel speaker on it (a def tech CLR-3000).

The official forum provides the dimensions as 24.25" W x 17.5" D x 25.5" H (including feet & grills) but I have about 23.5" (or maybe 24") space available (plus space for my center channel). Can someone please measure the sub without the feet and let me know the height? The sub will be on a carpet so it shouldn't be an issue to use it without the feet (if it shouldn't be used without the feet for some technical reason please do let me know!).

Also, do you think I can safely put a 45-50 lbs center channel speaker on top of it?

Thanks in advance for your help
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post #6955 of 8068
7/28/12 at 8:29pm
Mark posted awhile back that the feet need to stay on to keep the sub sealed, I was going to take the feet off too until I read that. Mine is 25 1/16" inches tall with the feet on, on carpet.
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post #6956 of 8068
7/28/12 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators View Post

Hi Guys,
I am thinking of buying a submersive HP. The sub needs to fit under my wall-mounted TV and I need to put my center channel speaker on it (a def tech CLR-3000).
The official forum provides the dimensions as 24.25" W x 17.5" D x 25.5" H (including feet & grills) but I have about 23.5" (or maybe 24") space available (plus space for my center channel). Can someone please measure the sub without the feet and let me know the height? The sub will be on a carpet so it shouldn't be an issue to use it without the feet (if it shouldn't be used without the feet for some technical reason please do let me know!).
Also, do you think I can safely put a 45-50 lbs center channel speaker on top of it?
Thanks in advance for your help

I measured mine just now on the woofer side from top to bottom - it came out to 24.75" tall.

And I think it should be just fine with a 45-50 lb center channel on it - it's pretty solidly built. biggrin.gif
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post #6957 of 8068
7/28/12 at 9:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators View Post

Hi Guys,
I am thinking of buying a submersive HP. The sub needs to fit under my wall-mounted TV and I need to put my center channel speaker on it (a def tech CLR-3000).
The official forum provides the dimensions as 24.25" W x 17.5" D x 25.5" H (including feet & grills) but I have about 23.5" (or maybe 24") space available (plus space for my center channel). Can someone please measure the sub without the feet and let me know the height? The sub will be on a carpet so it shouldn't be an issue to use it without the feet (if it shouldn't be used without the feet for some technical reason please do let me know!).
Also, do you think I can safely put a 45-50 lbs center channel speaker on top of it?
Thanks in advance for your help

In my case, I have the 1st gen SubM's & the feet are attached differently; however I think that the Dims are the same (24 3/4in) without the feet. I am using them with my Cat 12C on top of them. (>100 lbs)

If I was you, I would turn the sub on it's side (17.5) and space your CLR-3000 up high enough to clear the PowerCon & the XLR audio input connectors. You could place something in the space between
the two speakers to hide the cables from view. Due to the speakers design, there is no vibration & the speaker is built like a tank, so no problem with weight.

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post #6958 of 8068
7/28/12 at 11:09pm
Logicator,

You may also want to consider the newer SubMersive F2 design. It's 20'' in height when laying on its side.

Here's a quote from Mark that may be useful:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Seaton 
the walls are all very well braced, and they should be fine to place a speaker on with an appropriate rubber pad under them similar to what I use on the top of the stands. We can cut and supply a suitable pad if desired. Had the samples been done in time, a pair would have served as the stands for the rear CAT-8C's at our demo in Indy a few weeks ago.

With a 20" or 35.75" height, suitability as a stand will depend on the specific room and seating, but rear surrounds certainly make sense in balancing and distributing subs in the room as I've repeatedly found general front and rear locations to be very workable and useful at efficiently covering the entire subwoofer range.
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post #6959 of 8068
7/28/12 at 11:47pm
Thanks for your quick responses!

I checked the wall-mount I used for my TV (monoprice 4174: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082801&p_id=4174&seq=1&format=2) and I might be able to adjust the rails screwed on the back of the TV by a couple of inches. Not guaranteed to work (since the instructions recommend placing them towards the center of the TV), but worth a try smile.gif
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post #6960 of 8068
7/29/12 at 5:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators View Post

Hi Guys,

I am thinking of buying a submersive HP. The sub needs to fit under my wall-mounted TV and I need to put my center channel speaker on it (a def tech CLR-3000).

The official forum provides the dimensions as 24.25" W x 17.5" D x 25.5" H (including feet & grills) but I have about 23.5" (or maybe 24") space available (plus space for my center channel). Can someone please measure the sub without the feet and let me know the height? The sub will be on a carpet so it shouldn't be an issue to use it without the feet (if it shouldn't be used without the feet for some technical reason please do let me know!).

Also, do you think I can safely put a 45-50 lbs center channel speaker on top of it?

Thanks in advance for your help

others have commented on the rest, but i'll add that you could likely put a 500 pound center channel on top of the subm without issue... smile.gif

remains to be seen what the response will be put in the center of the wall though...
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