Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 237

all those questions and
You forgot to ask how it sounded.

I can read the hundred pages of user reviews for that

We just have two different goals,
You Read
I Listen
And it Sounds Sweet!!
Enjoy Yours because I am Mine.
Chris

I read so I know what I'm listening to. If you don't care, more power to you. I don't plan on losing sleep over it tonight in any event.

Reviews can be biased by to many factors. Measuremnts can differ from place to place.
When you have a product that speaks for itself then let it speak.
I like to see an owners review 6 months to a year after they have owned it to see if it's
worth $$$$$. Most owners can't wait to get their 2nd one, Thats Gold.
If my business could sell everyone once then twice I could retire in 30 years.
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 9/11/12 at 5:58pm

That's the value in Ricci's measurements. They're performed consistently (outdoors at two meters to eliminate the room as a factor) and AFAIK, in the same location. Of course with any test there can be minor variations due to conditions such as temperature. Nonetheless, he's building up a nice little database to make worthwhile comparisons, and his measurements include far more than just base FR.

Has mark come out with dual 18 inch submersives as yet?

If you are referring to the Submersive XL/2, Mark Seaton posted this in July. I don't know if things have changed since then (as things frequently do in the driver / amp industry), but it seems he was targeting a fall release.

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1274307728&postcount=143

You may want to look into JTR Captivator S2.

Hi Mark,

Just wanted to say: It's been 9 months(aprox. 1000 hours listening) since I first got the SubMersive HP and this thing still makes me smile!

I can't wait till next summer to get my second one.

^^^^

Wish my wife was as easily amused as you. Just buy her a subwoofer and watch her smile. Tell her she can get another but not for a year and she still smiles.

Introducing: Seaton Submersive F2 HP Subwoofers (Rosenut)














Review to follow. Also, an unboxing video is in the works. These things are really packaged well!

 
My initial (Day 1) Submersive F2 HP (2400w) impressions:
 
Appearance & Build Quality

Upon placing the order for the Seaton Submersive F2 HP subwoofers, I had no doubt in my mind that the aesthetics portrayed on the Seaton Forum and on AVS would be even more positively striking in person.  This assertion was correct, as the appearance of these F2 subwoofers in the Rosenut finish is something that must be beheld in-person in order to truly be appreciated.  The design details (i.e. the sloping of the cabinet, leading to the front baffle, and the angular rear construction) is visually pleasing enough to be actual furniture.  The Submersive F2 itself is satisfyingly heavy and can be difficult to position.  I would recommend furniture sliders for those with a penchant for excessive positioning and tweaking. 
 
Setup

The physical setup of these F2 subwoofers was as simple as it gets.  The unit ships with a fairly long power cable and a single endedàXLR (Balanced)  cable adapter.  I already had two runs of single-ended cable from prior equipment, so these adapters were quite useful.  I connected the existing subwoofer cable to the XLR adapters, and then plugged the adapters’ XLR connection into the appropriate input on the rear of the F2.  I then plugged the power cable into each F2, which required a clockwise turn until a soft snap is heard, at which point, the connection becomes secure.  After that, I connected it to a dedicated 20 Amp circuit (one of two in my room).  Once complete, I set the power switch to the “On” position, and prepared to have my life changed.
 
Setup of the subwoofer in the equalization realm was a bit more difficult for me.  When I first turned the subwoofer on, my door nearly rattled off its hinges when I queued up my go-to bass scene from around the 1:50:00 mark in the penultimate set-piece battle on the Transformers Blu Ray.  I was so shocked at the output that I had to scramble for the mute button while I proceeded to lower the gain on both Submersives.  Once this was done, I ran Audyssey XT/32 (which required that I set each subwoofer to the 75Hz test tone), Once Audyssey was completed, the sound was extremely subdued (pun intended) and I began to worry that I had just wasted money.  Initially, I thought my corner bass traps (GIK Tri-Traps) were the culprits, so I removed them from the room and re-did the setup, but to no avail.  The sound was still quite muffled and subdued, so I replaced the tri-traps and re-ran Audyssey again.  Then, I began tweaking the volume knob on each subwoofer, and I realized that Audyssey simply set my subwoofer volume too low on the a/v processor.  Auto-EQ is meant to be a starting point for fine-tuning audio, and I wholeheartedly took that philosophy for all it was worth.  I turned the subwoofer up 5 clicks from the lowest setting, and instantly, I had bass such as I had never witnessed before in either room nor Cineplex.  That is when I smiled and I knew that I had purchased something very very special.  Let me state that at no point was either Submersive F2 at fault here, but rather the Audyssey processing utilized.  
 
Performance

The music and movies I tested out yesterday are too numerous for me to provide detailed narratives for each; however, I will divulge the media that offered the best immediate experience with the Submersive F2 HP subwoofers.  The first is a 96/24 track called Heartbeat from Head Fi’s compilation “Open Your Ears” album.  This track has pulsating bass that goes extremely loud.  When I first played the track, I wondered why the bass wasn’t booming throughout the room as it had when I had my SVS; it was at that point that I realized that what I was listening to actually sounded like a heartbeat—taut and defined, instead of a series of BOOMS that cheaply rattle the ears with no definition.  Make no mistake, too often, people confuse “boom” with “good bass.”  This is not the case at all.  The first time you hear true definition within a bass track, you can never go back to boomy bass.  I believe this extreme definition is resultant of the combination of the GIK tri-traps and the Submersive’s raw bass reproduction prowess.
 
Next, we have the pod emergence scene from War of the Worlds.  Up until yesterday, I never know what the big fuss was, in regards to this scene.  I’ve seen it mentioned many times on various subwoofer threads; however, never have I been impressed by the scene with my equipment; thus—as human nature insisted—I proceeded to instill the belief within myself that this scene was simply overhyped as it built momentum over the years.
 
I was wrong.
 
When I turned on that pod-emergence scene, my perception of the scene began the way it always did in the past.  “Here we go, time to be underwhelmed again.”  Well, when that first crack began running through the street, I kid you not—I began grinning, shouting “oooooh,” and, most importantly, I turned the volume UP to reference (my eyes are still shaking)!  Once that scene was over, I sat there in a daze as the rest of the film continued to play for 4-5 minutes.  Is this what being a Submersive owner is all about?  Why yes, yes it is.
 
Last but not least, there’s a Demonstration disc from Datasat Digital called Crop Circle.  This Demonstration doesn’t have overwhelming bass, but is has GREAT bass integrated with some of the best audio I’ve ever witnessed.  The Submersive worked seamlessly within this demonstration and had me smiling from ear-to-ear.  I cannot emphasize this enough: The Submersive F2 HPs are not merely for rattling teeth; there can be subtle as well, as it shows in this Datasat Crop Circle demonstration.
 
Material used to test out the Seaton Submersive F2 HP subwoofers consisted of
 
Movies:
War of the Worlds
Datasat Digital Crop Circle Demonstration Clip.
Master & Commander: Far Side of the World
Transformers 1
Transformers: Dark of the Moon
Thor
Toy Story 3
 
Music
Too much to list.
 
Games:
Crysis 2
COD: Modern Warfare 3
Uncharted 2 & 3
Dead Space 2
 
Conclusion

The Seaton Submersive F2 HP subwoofer has opened my ears and I never want to close them.  The bass goes low and remains clean and taut, thus preserving definition at any volume; setup is easy, albeit the equalization of your preamp may require fine-tuning; and last but not least, the Submersive F2 cabinets are absolutely mesmerizing to look at.  Seaton Sound has found a customer for life.
 

Awesome posts BrolicBeast! Those F2's look beautiful. I'm sure they sound as good as they look.

I would just have one concern, and that is your need to raise the subwoofer levels after running Audyssey. One of the things Audyssey does is to calibrate the levels. If you were lacking bass after running XT32, I suggest you look at all the settings, not just the levels. IME, Audyssey often gets the subwoofer Distance setting(s) wrong, especially in multi-sub systems. This will cause some cancellation around the crossover point and can make the bass sound thin and weak, just as you described. The better solution than turning up the levels is to adjust the Distances to optimize the response around the crossover. This is easiest to do with measurements, but it can also be done just by ear. Here's how I did it with measurements: http://www.avsforum.com/t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/4500#post_19450333

When do your Catalysts arrive?

Craig

Wow! Those look awesome! Great setup!

Agreed on tinkering with the distance and crossover settings. Audyssey can vary a good bit with the level setting, especially when preferences come into play. I wouldn't hesitate to up the levels by 3-8dB, especially if measurements back it up, but as you get to raising the level more than 6dB, double check to make sure things make sense.

Hi Craig, thanks for that input....I took your advice and updated the distance settings and also set the sub in PGM2 per GPBurns. Both have made a great improvements to the level of bass I receive! Right now, it sounds so remarkable, I can't even fathom what other tweaks there are out there for even better sound! (outside of measurement-based configuration) It's funny--I had actually come across your distance posts from 2010 when I was scouring this thread last year--but back then, owning Submersives was a pipe-dream, so I never retained the information. Only when Bunga99 reminded me on my WYSC thread that you had and Mark had provided some advice on distance adjustments did I recall your 2010 posts. Your above explanation is great man. Thanks!

The Catalysts won't be arriving until some point next year, man...maybe Jan or Feb. I'm actually leaning toward 5 Cat 12C's as opposed to 3 Cat 12C's coupled with 4 Cat 8 C's.


Thanks! These are very well-designed subs! I'm still so excited, I feel as if they just came today. lol

Mark, I used your level increase advise in conjunction w/ Craig's distance-adjustment advice and tuned things to a sonic level that, to my ears, is near perfect. Listening in PGM2 is sublime.
Edited by BrolicBeast - 9/15/12 at 5:24pm

Greetings Seaton Submersive fans. Below I've posted my Seaton Submersive F2 HP Unboxing Video. If I sound like a kid in a toy store, it's because it's been a long time since I've been this excited!

Thanks for the video. It was very nice. I wish you much listening enjoyment with your new Submersive F2 HPs. The Rosenut looks SWEET!!! Congrats to you & Happy Listening!!!

Another little tweak that you might want to try. I noticed that your center channel is not to the edge of your audio cabinet. I suggest that you move your center channel so that it's at the edge of your audio cabinet. Where it's sitting now, your are probably getting reflections off of your audio cabinet which is what you don't want. By moving your center channel to the edge of your audio cabinet, you will eliminate those reflections. Also, if you put some type of isolation padding under your center channel, that will also help.
Edited by ninja12 - 9/16/12 at 10:12am

Very cool video man! Thanks for posting it. It brought back some sweet memories of the unboxing I did a few years ago:



http://www.avsforum.com/t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/2100#post_17043554

Craig

Love'n mine too!

Great video BrolicBeast! It IS a little like Christmas morning when you receive Seaton toys. I well remember the day my Catalysts arrived; couldn't wait to lug them upstairs and fire them up! Of course everything was perfect, even the meticulous packaging. Your F2's are gorgeous in rosenut veneer.

Chris

Fantastic review and a great video, BrolicBeast. The packaging done by Mark (and Jeff at JTR) is always the absolute best. Those F2s are gorgeous in rosenut! You're gonna be happy for many, many years. Congrats!

Awesome video mate, the rosenut finish is absolutely stunning!...I got the black oak.....always love watching your videos and this one I especially like. I love my 3 12C Catalysts and 2 Submersives...Im in aus so I still have to wait for the 240v HP amps to be available. Congrats mate...you should post a video of a listening session :P...like those other vids you have .

Great video BrolicBeast ... the F2-HP's are awesome looking. Hope you get many years of enjoyment from the system.

Love the look of those F2's, I think they look so much better than my boring old regular hp's. I really like being able to see all the drivers. That said I have to have the old style since they double as speaker stands.

I have been playing with house curves from 40 hz down to 15hz on my SMS 1 and I'm loving the results. All the clips on my superleo disk are even more impressive, same level of volume but more feel.

Also for music I just can't help myself form using a 150 hz crossover. I get a more punchy tactile sound with the kick drum this way. I don't know if my eD's are lacking in the bass around 120hz or so, but it's obvious that the submersives play that range of bass with more authority and they sound great doing it. Love these subs... I know I keep repeating that but I can't help it.

As I mentioned in your thread, that's a real cool video. They do look fantastic in that finish. I will also make a quick remark on the packing. Way back in the olden days, it was packed as such. If I remember correctly, it was just a cardboard box with some foam around the edges. Mine was a good test since it was shipped out to PA then Mark had to roll it up my steps to get it into my room. That gave Mark a good indication on how well it was packed. While it arrived with no issues, I think that after Mark setup my sub he started to think about a more robust packing solution. I think he has that part down for sure, That sub was really packed well.

Dude, cool chronicle of your receipt and unboxing of the Submersives! The size difference between the Submersive and the JL Fathom made me laugh. lol. That one picture showing the transition from JL to Seaton speaks volumes!



It most certainly is like Christmas! Ah! Catalysts!....**mouth waters, Homer Simpson style** I need to start working on getting those into my room!

Glad you like the video! Seaton really packages these subs to make sure they don't get damaged in transit. The only thing I can see myself upgrading to are.....bigger and better Seaton subs. Whichever model is at the top in the year 2022 (the year of my next upgrade. lol!)

Ahhhhh nice!!! 12C's are the holy grail of home theater speakers, in my opinion and you, good sir, and all other Catalyst owners are role models.

Gracias! Many years of enjoyment is a must! Once I have the Catalysts, I won't be upgrading speakers for about a decade or so.

Greetings! I'm actually getting ready to get my feet wet in the measurement realm. I haven't heard of the superleo disk--what's that? Your HP's are hardly boring man--there's a beauty in the simplicity of the original Submersive. I also have my crossovers somewhat high--at around 100Hz for mains and 120 Hz for surrounds. I'd rather have the Submersive reproduce those frequencies than my current speakers. 12C's will change all of that though!

Nice! Its great to have played a part in the development of the packaging process. Also, to have subwoofer delivered by Mark back in the early days of Seaton Sound must have been a treat. I'm defintiely going to seek his services, once my room is fully Seatonized!!!

To be honest, it was the only way I would have been able to get the sub since my theater is on the second floor and I am physically unable to work on my system myself. But it was a treat having Mark over to setup my system.

Hey all, Are Tact2 and the Antimode devices meant to be used instead of Audyssey, or in conjunction with it? I'm goiing to start gear I'll need to get the F2's as good as they can get. Having never measured before or independently tuned subwoofers w/o Audyssey or MACC in the early days, this is a completely new arena for me.