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Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 239

post #7141 of 8061
9/27/12 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

16 Hz is correct. The mic is calibrated to 16 Hz. The ETF graphs display to 8 Hz, but it's not an FR graph, and they don't claim calibrated output. Another "complaint" about xtz is that the highest resolution possible is 1/12 octave. Some feel it is imperative to have higher resolution, all the way to unsmoothed graphs. I, (personally) don't think that is required to optimize a subwoofer system, but other will disagree.
Craig
Gotcha! Thanks for the info. smile.gif
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post #7142 of 8061
9/27/12 at 6:03pm
OmniMic goes to 5Hz but I'm not sure how meaningful that is either.
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post #7143 of 8061
9/27/12 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

TThey are awfully expensive, but by far the easiest to setup. Less than 1 minute from opening the box to running the first sweep!

When one has $10,000 to $20,000 in Seaton Speakers (or any other brand for that matter), the $300 price of XTZ or OmniMic is a literal bargain given that it will allow you to get all of the sound you paid for. Along with the Darbee Darblet, I would say that OmniMic was one of the very best and reasonably price thingies I purchased for my theater.
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post #7144 of 8061
9/27/12 at 9:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

If ordering the OmniMic, 1 or 2 of these extender/repeaters can be a worthwhile add-on to free you from the 6' USB leash.

Thanks Mark. I'm pretty sure I will need a couple of those! I haven't yet made the purchase, as I was (and still am) having difficulty deciding, but i think I'm leaning toward the Omnimic. I know the Submersives go lower than the 16Hz that the XTZ mic is capable of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

Too bad you didn't live closer to the KC area. I'd let you borrow my XTZ kit. They are awfully expensive, but by far the easiest to setup. Less than 1 minute from opening the box to running the first sweep!

Thanks man! Even though I'm leagues away from KC, I appreciate it all the same Counsil. They are indeed expensive as standalone products, but I think that when taken as a whole, they can be considered a bargain. Now, at first, the thought of spending $300-$350 on an item that only measures but does not EQ was a bit off-putting; however, I now consider it as an added cost to the subwoofers. At two subwoofers, that's an extra $150 each for a complete measurement suite. One minute from opening the box to running the first sweep? Yikes! That's pretty awesome! I'm a fan of efficient user interfaces, which XTZ must clearly have if it's that easy to use. hmmmm...decisions decisions....
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post #7145 of 8061
9/28/12 at 12:00am
Both XTZ and Omnimic are very user friendly. Load program on computer, plug in connections, ready to go.

REW can be had for less and has features the other 2 don't, but the downsides are that you have to get all the pieces of equipment separately (mic, compatible soundcard, cables etc. REW itself is free) and it has a steeper learning curve to setup and use


Max
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post #7146 of 8061
9/28/12 at 12:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Gotcha! Thanks for the info. smile.gif

Since most of us can't hear below 16 hz, I wouldn't consider that in my decision. Nor would I allow 1/12th octave smoothing to be a problem.

I do like Omnimic and REW in combination. What works for me is to use the Omnimic to capture the information and then transfer it into REW to calculate filters. Best of both worlds.
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post #7147 of 8061
9/28/12 at 3:15am
I started off with REW and the learning curve is MUCH steeper. Not so much in running the actual measurements but rather getting all of the pieces (mic, external soundcard, PC sound control settings, etc) to play nice with one another. Jim was nice enough to come to Atlanta and assist but then, after he left, I would have random issues that would pop up. But that may be more a sign of some intellectual challenges on my part rather than issues with the product. It does offer more functionality but none (other than what Jim pointed out which could be cool if you are using an external PEQ) that is important for what you want to accomplish.

And I see the fact that OmniMic goes lower a bit differently than Jim. While he is correct in that you can't "hear" 16hz, you sure can feel it if present in the content. If I have paid for a sub that can go single digits, I would like to know it and be able to position my sub(s) to optimize the position in the room to take full advantage of that ability.

That said, either of those 3 programs is, in my opinion, a must have to optimize your room.
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post #7148 of 8061
9/28/12 at 5:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Since most of us can't hear below 16 hz, I wouldn't consider that in my decision. Nor would I allow 1/12th octave smoothing to be a problem.
You can't hear it but you can perceive it. So it's not all lost or pointless.

Staying on topic, I decided to get a CSL calibrated Dayton EMM-6 mic to use with REW instead of getting an OmniMic setup. Primarily because I already had an REW setup (ECM8000 + USB sound card + mixer). My ECM8000 wasn't calibrated, so a new calibrated mic was a lot less than a $300 OmniMic setup. (Yes, I do realize I could have gotten the ECM8000 calibrated as well).
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post #7149 of 8061
9/28/12 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

Too bad you didn't live closer to the KC area. I'd let you borrow my XTZ kit. They are awfully expensive, but by far the easiest to setup. Less than 1 minute from opening the box to running the first sweep!
Are you still using the Behringer DCX 2496 for setting delays and level matching your Subs and then EQing with Audyssey XT32 pro kit?
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post #7150 of 8061
9/30/12 at 9:04am
Hi guys,

I posted this in the Audyssey Pro thread, but I think the other guys are a bit too busy fixing the FAQ's and kinda missed my post, so thought Id post it here.

I just ran an Omnimic calibration as I got just got it from the states. I have 2 Submersives in my room with no acoustic treatments. Im pretty sure I took these 1/12 octaves...not sure what you guys mostly prefer. But here it is.

System:

3x Seaton Sound Catalysts 12C's
2x Seaton Submersives
2x Jensen SPX *crappy bookshelfs* for rears
Integra DHC80.3 w/ Audyssey pro
Emotiva XPA5

My room:

Front:


Back:


Sub 1 Right side of MLP Audyssey off:


Sub 1 Right side of MLP Audyssey On:


Sub 1 Left side of MLP Audyssey Off:


Sub 2 Left Side of MLP Audyssey On:


Both Subs Audyssey Off at MLP:


Both Subs Audyssey On at MLP:


Just want to provide as much detail as possible for you guys as I really want to learn more about all of this....so these are my first measurements. I would like to get the best sound possible from my speakers within this room, unfortunately I have the other half to work with so yeah lol. If you need trim and details I will be more than happy to post my Audyssey Pro settings too smile.gif. All is tuned to the normal 75db through the audyssey pro kit with 12 point calibration. There are two openings to the rest of the house on either side of front speakers as you can see in the picture....which sucks. But if there is any better way to get better sound...that would be awesome!. I am loving speakers too! biggrin.gif

P.S - The Submersives are at the back of the room as you can see in the picture. Also probably the only acoustic treatments I could do would be on the ceiling and install bass traps near the subs...would that help? I am also sitting around 22inches away from the back wall, the pic shows it against the wall kinda....but it is moved 22inches forward whenever we put movies on. Any other thoughts are most welcome also smile.gif

Cheers,
Kevin
Edited by buddhamus - 9/30/12 at 9:12am
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post #7151 of 8061
9/30/12 at 6:22pm
I hope those items on the subs are not valuable tongue.gif

I would venture a guess they will find themselves on the floor at some point soon.
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post #7152 of 8061
9/30/12 at 6:42pm
They probably dont move at all

there are videos out there of a nickel standing on edge during reference level play back of something like U571 or something crazy like that.
The dual opposed design is very stable!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnbum88 View Post

I hope those items on the subs are not valuable tongue.gif
I would venture a guess they will find themselves on the floor at some point soon.
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post #7153 of 8061
9/30/12 at 7:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnbum88 View Post

I hope those items on the subs are not valuable tongue.gif
I would venture a guess they will find themselves on the floor at some point soon.

Haha, the good thing about Submersives are that...the cabinet is completely inert...so I can place a coin on it side up and it wont move as a youtube video shows it biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbagger View Post

They probably dont move at all
there are videos out there of a nickel standing on edge during reference level play back of something like U571 or something crazy like that.
The dual opposed design is very stable!

Hahaha...cheers mate smile.gif
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post #7154 of 8061
10/1/12 at 5:26am
safest place in room is on top of the submersive - I remember seeing a post where projector was placed on stacked submersives - can't recall who
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post #7155 of 8061
10/1/12 at 5:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post

Hi guys,
I posted this in the Audyssey Pro thread, but I think the other guys are a bit too busy fixing the FAQ's and kinda missed my post, so thought Id post it here.
I just ran an Omnimic calibration as I got just got it from the states. I have 2 Submersives in my room with no acoustic treatments. Im pretty sure I took these 1/12 octaves...not sure what you guys mostly prefer. But here it is.
System:
3x Seaton Sound Catalysts 12C's
2x Seaton Submersives
2x Jensen SPX *crappy bookshelfs* for rears
Integra DHC80.3 w/ Audyssey pro
Emotiva XPA5
My room:
Front:

Back:

Sub 1 Right side of MLP Audyssey off:

Sub 1 Right side of MLP Audyssey On:

Sub 1 Left side of MLP Audyssey Off:

Sub 2 Left Side of MLP Audyssey On:

Both Subs Audyssey Off at MLP:

Both Subs Audyssey On at MLP:

Just want to provide as much detail as possible for you guys as I really want to learn more about all of this....so these are my first measurements. I would like to get the best sound possible from my speakers within this room, unfortunately I have the other half to work with so yeah lol. If you need trim and details I will be more than happy to post my Audyssey Pro settings too smile.gif. All is tuned to the normal 75db through the audyssey pro kit with 12 point calibration. There are two openings to the rest of the house on either side of front speakers as you can see in the picture....which sucks. But if there is any better way to get better sound...that would be awesome!. I am loving speakers too! biggrin.gif
P.S - The Submersives are at the back of the room as you can see in the picture. Also probably the only acoustic treatments I could do would be on the ceiling and install bass traps near the subs...would that help? I am also sitting around 22inches away from the back wall, the pic shows it against the wall kinda....but it is moved 22inches forward whenever we put movies on. Any other thoughts are most welcome also smile.gif
Cheers,
Kevin

Kevin what trim is audyssey pro giving you on the subs ?
in recent software there might be slight bug
I'm finding Audyssey is cutting extention below 20HZ too agressively
when it runs out of trim range (- 12) - easy to do with muliple submersives
your after graphs showing the same cut below 20Hz
( pgm 2 will add it back to flat but I perfer when the pgm2 results in adding nice house curve)
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post #7156 of 8061
10/1/12 at 10:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post

Kevin what trim is audyssey pro giving you on the subs ?
in recent software there might be slight bug
I'm finding Audyssey is cutting extention below 20HZ too agressively
when it runs out of trim range (- 12) - easy to do with muliple submersives
your after graphs showing the same cut below 20Hz
( pgm 2 will add it back to flat but I perfer when the pgm2 results in adding nice house curve)

Ahh the trims are 0.5 of each other. One sub is on -5.0db and the other is 4.5db. I completely forgot about the PGM2 button, I will try that this Friday and post the graphs with it engaged under this audyssey calibration and see how we go. Other than that, how does the rest of the graph look?
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post #7157 of 8061
10/1/12 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post

Ahh the trims are 0.5 of each other. One sub is on -5.0db and the other is 4.5db. I completely forgot about the PGM2 button, I will try that this Friday and post the graphs with it engaged under this audyssey calibration and see how we go. Other than that, how does the rest of the graph look?

looks decent - would throw up up graph full range to see how it looks at X-over region

would also do a higher volume level graph (just subs )- if response remains the same as you push volume up past 105db or so
your sub locations not compressing. - which is goal
you see a lot of graphs look great at 85 db - push up to reference level and start to crap out in lower regions


are you familiar with save funtion on omnimic - its nice to graph before and after responses

most important question - how does it sound

did you mean -4.5 and -5 on subs?
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post #7158 of 8061
10/1/12 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post

looks decent - would throw up up graph full range to see how it looks at X-over region
would also do a higher volume level graph (just subs )- if response remains the same as you push volume up past 105db or so
your sub locations not compressing. - which is goal
you see a lot of graphs look great at 85 db - push up to reference level and start to crap out in lower regions

are you familiar with save funtion on omnimic - its nice to graph before and after responses
most important question - how does it sound
did you mean -4.5 and -5 on subs?

Hey GPburns,

Thats good to know its not compressing. I only just got OmniMic so still figuring things out. So the next measurement I do with PGM2 button engaged...run the subs at 105db? Im not familiar with the save function...mind explaining how it works? and yes I meant -4.5 and -5.0db lol.

The whole system sound is bloody awesome, just want to fine tune it to the best as I can within the listening area I have. A few friends came over and we watched Avengers this past Saturday. But before we watched Avengers, we put on some of the previous Marvel films and I demo'd all the action scenes for them. They were literally wow'd by the sound....the funniest part of the night was when we were watching TIH and the fight between Hulk and Abomination...we heard a massive bang and smash in one of the rooms. Turned out all the shampoos and conditioners walked off the edge of the shelving and fell on the ground LOL!!...priceless moment. I am very glad I got these speakers!!. The detail, clarity and dynamics is something I havent even heard in speakers twice to three times its price range smile.gif
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post #7159 of 8061
10/1/12 at 8:57pm
Also what settings do I need to change to allow it show a full graph?

And what octave should I change it too?

Cheers
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post #7160 of 8061
10/5/12 at 12:27am
Alright I pushed the subs past reference to the highest level on the reciver +17 lol and it peaked 105db or so? Submersives are on the 2nd or 3rd lowest volume dial from what I remember, so plenty of headroom. I also did this with the PGM2 selected with the button pushed out.

Both Subs Audyssey off:



Both Subs Audyssey on:



You can see the DB's are a bit more higher than the previous graphs....but they roughly look the same. The PGM2 button didnt looked like it did much?...but it could just be my eyes not picking up on things you guys would lol.
I pressed the PGM2 button outwards before booting it up. Is that right?...
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post #7161 of 8061
10/5/12 at 3:39am
Does anybody know if two Submersives can be plugged into a single power conditioner, which would be plugged into a 20 amp circuit? If so, are there certain features this conditioner must have in order for it to work properly?
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post #7162 of 8061
10/5/12 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Does anybody know if two Submersives can be plugged into a single power conditioner, which would be plugged into a 20 amp circuit? If so, are there certain features this conditioner must have in order for it to work properly?

You will want at least a 15A surge protector for 2 SubMersive HP's or use one each. Some premium units are rated for 20A. The best out there, which are a bit more expensive than the cheaper options, are from SurgeX. They also make some units with remote turn on capabilities.
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post #7163 of 8061
10/5/12 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Does anybody know if two Submersives can be plugged into a single power conditioner, which would be plugged into a 20 amp circuit? If so, are there certain features this conditioner must have in order for it to work properly?

You will want at least a 15A surge protector for 2 SubMersive HP's or use one each. Some premium units are rated for 20A. The best out there, which are a bit more expensive than the cheaper options, are from SurgeX. They also make some units with remote turn on capabilities.

Wouldn't the surge protection be bypassed when the unit is powered off? confused.gif

-- Bill --
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post #7164 of 8061
10/5/12 at 11:13am
Most switch at the output, not input, but even if they did, you would then be disconnected from the power line with the isolation of the switch. All I have encountered keep the protection in place, even in an "off" state. For a component. The SurgeX products can be a little expensive for a single product, but are easily justified for multiple components.
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post #7165 of 8061
10/5/12 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

You will want at least a 15A surge protector for 2 SubMersive HP's or use one each. Some premium units are rated for 20A. The best out there, which are a bit more expensive than the cheaper options, are from SurgeX. They also make some units with remote turn on capabilities.

Thanks for that reply Mark. Would a product like the SurgeX SX1120RT (Linked to below) be able to handle three Catalyst 12C's at very high speaker levels? I have two 20 Amp circuits in my theater, with one receptacle on each circuit (installed next to each other). What I’d like to do is Plug my two Submersive F2 HP’s into one power conditioner (attached to 20 Amp circuit # 1), while plugging the future three Catalyst 12C’s into a second power conditioner (attached to 20 Amp circuit # 2). The rears (whether I do 12 or 8c’s) will be plugged into two existing Panamax M5300 power conditioners (one speaker per conditioner, using the high current receptacles) that the rest of the theater is plugged into. Would this be OK? If not, any suggestions?

Link: http://www.amazon.com/Surge-SX1120-RT-by-SurgeX/dp/B003XESMVO/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1349463204&sr=1-11&keywords=surgex
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post #7166 of 8061
10/5/12 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Thanks for that reply Mark. Would a product like the SurgeX SX1120RT (Linked to below) be able to handle three Catalyst 12C's at very high speaker levels? I have two 20 Amp circuits in my theater, with one receptacle on each circuit (installed next to each other). What I’d like to do is Plug my two Submersive F2 HP’s into one power conditioner (attached to 20 Amp circuit # 1), while plugging the future three Catalyst 12C’s into a second power conditioner (attached to 20 Amp circuit # 2). The rears (whether I do 12 or 8c’s) will be plugged into two existing Panamax M5300 power conditioners (one speaker per conditioner, using the high current receptacles) that the rest of the theater is plugged into. Would this be OK? If not, any suggestions?
Link: http://www.amazon.com/Surge-SX1120-RT-by-SurgeX/dp/B003XESMVO/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1349463204&sr=1-11&keywords=surgex

Have you considered going with a whole house surge suppressor? It's going to be a simpler and likely cheaper solution.

They can typically be acquired and installed by an electrician for $300-$500.
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post #7167 of 8061
10/5/12 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Have you considered going with a whole house surge suppressor? It's going to be a simpler and likely cheaper solution.

They can typically be acquired and installed by an electrician for $300-$500.

"Whole house" might be a little too generous a term. I'd use the term "incoming main protection". The point is this only protects against a surge which comes in through the power line. This is a nice thing to have, but it's important to realize that if your house gets hit or even a tree very close to the house, it likely won't be inbetween the surge and your gear, especially with other connections into the electrical system like internet or satellite.
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post #7168 of 8061
10/5/12 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

You will want at least a 15A surge protector for 2 SubMersive HP's or use one each. Some premium units are rated for 20A. The best out there, which are a bit more expensive than the cheaper options, are from SurgeX. They also make some units with remote turn on capabilities.

Thanks for that reply Mark. Would a product like the SurgeX SX1120RT (Linked to below) be able to handle three Catalyst 12C's at very high speaker levels? I have two 20 Amp circuits in my theater, with one receptacle on each circuit (installed next to each other). What I’d like to do is Plug my two Submersive F2 HP’s into one power conditioner (attached to 20 Amp circuit # 1), while plugging the future three Catalyst 12C’s into a second power conditioner (attached to 20 Amp circuit # 2). The rears (whether I do 12 or 8c’s) will be plugged into two existing Panamax M5300 power conditioners (one speaker per conditioner, using the high current receptacles) that the rest of the theater is plugged into. Would this be OK? If not, any suggestions?

Link: http://www.amazon.com/Surge-SX1120-RT-by-SurgeX/dp/B003XESMVO/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1349463204&sr=1-11&keywords=surgex

This should work fine. I saw a few items from SurgeX at CEDIA which might fit the bill in a non-rack mount package as well, but I haven't had time to look through the full line yet. There's no particular need to split the rear speakers 1 per Panamax, but that will work just fine as you describe.
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post #7169 of 8061
10/5/12 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

"Whole house" might be a little too generous a term. I'd use the term "incoming main protection". The point is this only protects against a surge which comes in through the power line. This is a nice thing to have, but it's important to realize that if your house gets hit or even a tree very close to the house, it likely won't be inbetween the surge and your gear, especially with other connections into the electrical system like internet or satellite.

Agreed, but surges of significant enough magnitude aren't going to be stopped by the vast majority of surge suppressors. SurgeX is on the high end of protection options, but I doubt even a SurgeX would do much against a direct lightening strike, whereas incoming main protection smile.gif will route to the ground and shunt the surge originating outside the main away from the internal wiring.

FWIW, I use both as I already had a number of good quality suppression devices before installing the whole...er, incoming main protection. The suppression on the main also provides a nice safety blanket for all of the other appliances in the house for a very reasonable price.
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post #7170 of 8061
10/8/12 at 6:46am
Hello all,

I am a longtime lurker on AVS forum but have never posted before. The reason for this post on this thread is to see if anyone has interest in a used Submersive I have that I am going to sell. It is black oak and purchased 3 years ago and it does have the HP upgrade amp - both purchased from Mark Seaton. I would love to keep it but my wife and I now have a baby girl and have moved into a new house and frankly, need to sell due to finances.
It has been lightly used and was purchased for a home theater room in my previous house. I do have original box and packaging it came in. it is heavy and rated about 120 pounds. If I could find a 'local' interested buyer in driving range, that would be great and save some money and avoid having it shipped.
I reside in the southeast near Columbia, South Carolina. Anyone want to purchase a used subemrsiveHP or have it for a second submersive HP? You can PM me of course. I do have an ebay account (webby10) but would like to sell to someone on the thread or to someone that knows about the Seaton Submersive and is an enthusiast. I soon will post in the classified section if no particular interest in this Submersive only thread.

thanks for reading
Biomechanic


Edited to add to that I have placed this on the avs classified section with pricing. Thanks for the interest and sorry I couldnt repsond to all PM,s as I reached my daily of PM's.
Edited by Biomechanic - 10/9/12 at 5:59am
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