or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Seaton Sound SubMersive1
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 240

post #7171 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Has anyone heard any update on the 240V version of the Submersive HP? Is it out yet?

 

Mark has been saying (Both here and on his own forum) that it is getting closer, but not quite there yet. I live in the US, but use 240VAC to power my Seatons. I also have waited since the introduction of the "HP"
Edited by calentz - 10/12/12 at 8:00am
post #7172 of 9382
I've owned and used 25 subwoofers in the past 6 years. MTX, Dayton kit 15", Hsu's w/MBM's, MFW-15's, ED 450's, Conquest, Empires, VMPS Larger subs, and finally settled on 3 Submersives. I was always looking for that just right bass SQ but it had to have some sophistocation to it. I got what I was looking for in the Submersive. Lot of bucks spent on this hobby, but what the hell. Being retired now what else can be so much fun then a HT hobby.
post #7173 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

I've owned and used 25 subwoofers in the past 6 years. MTX, Dayton kit 15", Hsu's w/MBM's, MFW-15's, ED 450's, Conquest, Empires, VMPS Larger subs, and finally settled on 3 Submersives. I was always looking for that just right bass SQ but it had to have some sophistocation to it. I got what I was looking for in the Submersive. Lot of bucks spent on this hobby, but what the hell. Being retired now what else can be so much fun then a HT hobby.
Bill,

I've followed your journey through many of those iterations of your system. In addition to all the subs you've tried, you also went through numerous EQ's and RC systems... all in search of the "perfect" sound. Congratulations on getting to the finish line! smile.gif

Craig
post #7174 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

I've owned and used 25 subwoofers in the past 6 years. MTX, Dayton kit 15", Hsu's w/MBM's, MFW-15's, ED 450's, Conquest, Empires, VMPS Larger subs, and finally settled on 3 Submersives. I was always looking for that just right bass SQ but it had to have some sophistocation to it. I got what I was looking for in the Submersive. Lot of bucks spent on this hobby, but what the hell. Being retired now what else can be so much fun then a HT hobby.


Though much less thorough than you, I can certainly relate to the fact that one could have saved many $ by going to the final solution first.    But that is the process of education, and I don't regret the journey one bit.

post #7175 of 9382
I have not had quite that many but totally agree on your conclusion --- if there are better subs, I have not heard them!!
post #7176 of 9382
Do the submersives have any independent testing data available on them and if so how would they compare to say a velodyne dd 18 plus? I have read some of this thread and some very knowledgeable members love their submersives, but can not find any outdoor ground plane measurements.
post #7177 of 9382
Hi guys - been lurking here awhile trying to educate myself on the Submersive. I can use some help, though. My room is about 25 x 15, with both a doorway and an opening into a hallway. My current sub is an svs 20-39 pc+. My speakers are PSB Synchronys. Amp is a B&K 200.7 ref. The main speakers & screen are set up on the long wall and the sub is off to the left side of the room, just about parallel to where I watch/listen. It's really the only spot I can go with as far as sub placement goes.

Along with the sub, I'll buy a pre/pro with XT32, prob. the Integra 80.3. Do you guys think the Submersive would work well in my situation? What x-over freq would you guys go with? Being that the Submersive has no phase adj, is that done by the pre/pro?

TIA for any help!
post #7178 of 9382
Chris,

Chill out, dude. smile.gif

I didn't get the impression that wonka1 was dissing the Submerive at all. It appeared he was just looking for some 3rd party verification that the SubM is everything we say it is. I think that is a legitimate question. Unfortunately, there is no positive answer that I'm aware of. I don't think Mark has ever had one independently tested. He's selling everything he can make right now and doesn't need "reviews" to increase sales.

BTW, outdoor, groundplane testing is a legitimate and very useful tool for evaluation of the *baseline* subwoofer performance. In-room tests of subwoofers are really just tests of the room. Outdoor GP tests take the room out of the equation and provide insight on the "baseline" capabilities of a subwoofer. They provide a level playing field for the comparison of subwoofer performance. Josh Ricci's Data-Bass http://www.data-bass.com/home is the best resource currently available for baseline comparisons of subwoofers. He measures every sub the same way, with multiple measures of performance, (i.e., frequency response, transient response, max output, power compression, distortion, etc.) Combined, all these measurements provide a overall picture of the performance envelope of a subwoofer, and, since they are performed the same way by the same tester, they can be used to compare the performance of one sub to another.

Back to wonka1's question about independent testing of the SubM... there have been several GTG's where multiple subs have been compared. These are in-room assessments, but the subs were all used in the same room, so at least that part of the testing was "leveled." The SubM's have always done exceptionally well at these GTG's. The most recent was this one: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1434901/northeast-october-20th-gtg-results-thread There are some measurements in that thread that may help with verification of the SubM's performance. However, I don't know of any direct comparison of the DD18+ to the SubM, so there is no way to answer your question.

Good luck, and let us know if we can help in your search.

Craig
post #7179 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

Hi guys - been lurking here awhile trying to educate myself on the Submersive. I can use some help, though. My room is about 25 x 15, with both a doorway and an opening into a hallway. My current sub is an svs 20-39 pc+. My speakers are PSB Synchronys. Amp is a B&K 200.7 ref. The main speakers & screen are set up on the long wall and the sub is off to the left side of the room, just about parallel to where I watch/listen. It's really the only spot I can go with as far as sub placement goes.

Along with the sub, I'll buy a pre/pro with XT32, prob. the Integra 80.3. Do you guys think the Submersive would work well in this my situation? What x-over freq would you guys go with? Being that the Submersive has no phase adj, is that done by the pre/pro?
TIA for any help!
TL5,

Welcome to the thread. smile.gif

The SubM should work very well with those speakers and amp. It should provide more output and deeper extension than your current SVS sub.

The SubM works very well with Audyssey XT32. However, as with any subwoofer system, the ability to measure and verify the in-room response can help optimize the system. If you are going to invest in a SubM, (or any highly capable sub), I strongly suggest you acquire some measurement gear and invest the time and effort into learning how to use it.

As to the crossover frequency, that should be determined after running Audyssey XT32 and then measuring the response. There is no good way to predict the crossover frequency. Also, your listening habits will come into play. Once you get a SubM, your speakers and amp will be the limiting factor(s) for maximum output. You can increase the system headroom by using a higher crossover, and handing more of the bass duties to the more-capable SubM. However, at some point subwoofer localization comes into play. So there is a tradeoff a between a higher crossover point and higher system capability.

Good luck, and let us know if you have other questions.

Craig
post #7180 of 9382
As the super- villain of the Seaton Sound world at the moment, I figured I'd stop in and offer my two cents:
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Chris,
Chill out, dude. smile.gif
I didn't get the impression that wonka1 was dissing the Submerive at all. It appeared he was just looking for some 3rd party verification that the SubM is everything we say it is. I think that is a legitimate question. Unfortunately, there is no positive answer that I'm aware of. I don't think Mark has ever had one independently tested. He's selling everything he can make right now and doesn't need "reviews" to increase sales.
BTW, outdoor, groundplane testing is a legitimate and very useful tool for evaluation of the *baseline* subwoofer performance. In-room tests of subwoofers are really just tests of the room. Outdoor GP tests take the room out of the equation and provide insight on the "baseline" capabilities of a subwoofer. They provide a level playing field for the comparison of subwoofer performance. Josh Ricci's Data-Bass http://www.data-bass.com/home is the best resource currently available for baseline comparisons of subwoofers. He measures every sub the same way, with multiple measures of performance, (i.e., frequency response, transient response, max output, power compression, distortion, etc.) Combined, all these measurements provide a overall picture of the performance envelope of a subwoofer, and, since they are performed the same way by the same tester, they can be used to compare the performance of one sub to another.

Craig, I appreciate this measured response (pardon the pun). While I might come off as far more of a pr*ck saying it, in the end, this is all I'm trying to get out there. I hope (and have faith) that Mark is a man of his word, and that when the time is right from a business perspective for him, he will send his subs in for review. Hopefully this more moderated post meets with less venom than what was typing last night.

Cheers gents.
post #7181 of 9382
Steve,


I think the basic problem is that subwoofer testing is usually done outdoors with no reflective surfaces which puts any dual opposed subwoofer at a distinct disadvantage. So there's no good reason someone building dual opposed subs would want published test.

But put the submersive in a room with walls and a ceiling and you have an exceptionally good sounding subwoofer.

Until test become real world "in room testing", you're not likely to see test results from any company that builds dual opposed driver subs.
post #7182 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Steve,
I think the basic problem is that subwoofer testing is usually done outdoors with no reflective surfaces which puts any dual opposed subwoofer at a distinct disadvantage. So there's no good reason someone building dual opposed subs would want published test.
But put the submersive in a room with walls and a ceiling and you have an exceptionally good sounding subwoofer.
Until test become real world "in room testing", you're not likely to see test results from any company that builds dual opposed driver subs.

Hi Jim,

I appreciate the response. I understand that a dual opposed subwoofer isn't quite as straight forward to measure as a conventional sub. Still, a Submersive wouldn't be the first subwoofer of that design for Josh to have reviewed and measured. He did put up measurements of the Epik Empire (with a compensation factor built in for the dual opposed design), and I'm unaware of any problems Chad had with the results (doesn't hurt that for the $$$, it puts up stellar measurements).

Edit: I mean, if conservatively, the SubM puts up an additional 6dB over the Epik over the measured bandwidth (just based on 4x the power with the drivers to take it), that puts it in pretty darned elite company...
Edited by Steve1981 - 10/28/12 at 1:20pm
post #7183 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Steve,
I think the basic problem is that subwoofer testing is usually done outdoors with no reflective surfaces which puts any dual opposed subwoofer at a distinct disadvantage. So there's no good reason someone building dual opposed subs would want published test.
But put the submersive in a room with walls and a ceiling and you have an exceptionally good sounding subwoofer.
Until test become real world "in room testing", you're not likely to see test results from any company that builds dual opposed driver subs.
Jim,

Josh Ricci has done some measurements on "opposed" subs. He's measured the Epic Empire and the Paradigm Signature Sub2, (which is triple opposed.) Here's an article he wrote on how to compensate for subs that don't have all the drivers on the front surface: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=content&id=77

Craig
Edited by craig john - 10/28/12 at 2:01pm
post #7184 of 9382
Perhaps he can submit the F2 instead of regular Subm HP to avoid dual opposed measurement issues?
post #7185 of 9382
I am in no way dishing the submersive, thanks Craig. What amazes me is the number of owners who have switched from high pedigree, more expensive subs to a sub m and the submersive consistently comes out on top. In regards to the dual driver argument, simply submit the gorgeous f2 for review, as Mark has stated their performance is the same.

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/SubMersive-F2-The-same-but-different...-5509423?trail=100
post #7186 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators View Post

Perhaps he can submit the F2 instead of regular Subm HP to avoid dual opposed measurement issues?

Beat me to it!
post #7187 of 9382
@craig...

did i post something i don't remember posting? confused.gif or was that a different chris?
post #7188 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

@craig...
did i post something i don't remember posting? confused.gif or was that a different chris?
No it was me and since it was not helpful I deleted it,
Sorry about that Wonka1
Chris
post #7189 of 9382
^^^

ah, ok... smile.gif just wanted to make sure i wasn't posting while intoxicated... tongue.gif
post #7190 of 9382
^ ^ ^ old age?
post #7191 of 9382
^^^

lol... that is always possible... redface.gif
post #7192 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicators View Post

Perhaps he can submit the F2 instead of regular Subm HP to avoid dual opposed measurement issues?

Speaking of the F2, has anyone gone from a submersive HP to an F2?

If so....could you tell much difference from 80-120hz?
post #7193 of 9382
^^^

someone at the recent northeast gtg had one...

iirc, mark indicated that the frequency response was the same...
post #7194 of 9382
I was there at the GTG when they had the two submersive hp and the F2 which was in the middle of the two. You could not tell there was any difference in sound. All three sounded like one sub and boy did they put out some serious clean tight bass.
post #7195 of 9382
I was at the same GTG. I liked them so much that I'm getting a couple of F2's - along with 7 of their friends. wink.gif
post #7196 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

TL5,
Welcome to the thread. smile.gif
The SubM should work very well with those speakers and amp. It should provide more output and deeper extension than your current SVS sub.
The SubM works very well with Audyssey XT32. However, as with any subwoofer system, the ability to measure and verify the in-room response can help optimize the system. If you are going to invest in a SubM, (or any highly capable sub), I strongly suggest you acquire some measurement gear and invest the time and effort into learning how to use it.
As to the crossover frequency, that should be determined after running Audyssey XT32 and then measuring the response. There is no good way to predict the crossover frequency. Also, your listening habits will come into play. Once you get a SubM, your speakers and amp will be the limiting factor(s) for maximum output. You can increase the system headroom by using a higher crossover, and handing more of the bass duties to the more-capable SubM. However, at some point subwoofer localization comes into play. So there is a tradeoff a between a higher crossover point and higher system capability.
Good luck, and let us know if you have other questions.
Craig

Thanks Craig. No problem with the Subm being placed near corner of room near rear wall? Where do I start with volume knob as far as the XT32 calibration?

Thanks!
post #7197 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Jim,
Josh Ricci has done some measurements on "opposed" subs. He's measured the Epic Empire and the Paradigm Signature Sub2, (which is triple opposed.) Here's an article he wrote on how to compensate for subs that don't have all the drivers on the front surface: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=content&id=77
Craig

Interesting read.

Thanks for posting.
post #7198 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

I was at the same GTG. I liked them so much that I'm getting a couple of F2's - along with 7 of their friends. wink.gif
But there are no measurements from a "pro" reviewer!!! tongue.gif
post #7199 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

I was at the same GTG. I liked them so much that I'm getting a couple of F2's - along with 7 of their friends. wink.gif

Why did you go with the F2's over the submersive HPs?

Rather than beating around the bush, on some other occassions, I believe Mark said that from 80hz down, they're essentially identical. My thoughts are that low frequency effects extend to 120 hz and as such if the F2s perform better in the 80-120hz region.

Thoughts?
Edited by JimP - 10/29/12 at 5:33am
post #7200 of 9382
Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

Thanks Craig. No problem with the Subm being placed near corner of room near rear wall? Where do I start with volume knob as far as the XT32 calibration?
Thanks!
Corner placements maximally excite all the room modes. If the modes are even distributed, that just means you get extra "free" output. If they're not evenly distributed, you get significant peaks and nulls in the response, and you end up with boomy, muddy bass. So, as with everything else in this hobby... it depends. smile.gif The only way to determine the response is to measure it. Can you do that?

One of the initial steps in XT32 is a test signal that reads out as an SPL reading on the OSD. You set the sub's volume knob so the read out reads 75 dB. Pretty simple. Most Submersive owners report that they end up with low settings to get to 75 dB. That is just fine and nothing to be concerned about.

Craig
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Seaton Sound SubMersive1