Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 242

Thanks! Did Mark make any mention of how much draw the Amp puts on a circuit during normal reference level playback? And did he make any mention of Xmax; piston excursion? The SubMersive HP is looking better and better but I don't have graphs and I don't know the peak-to-peak excursion so I can use this calculator to figure out theoretical, 16Hz SPL at a three or four meter main listening position.

http://www.baudline.com/erik/bass/xmaxer.html

For the most part it's a safe bet that most of us have sound meters and after wandering our rooms while the equipment is turned on and operating, know the acoustical qualities of our room and everybody knows that having an information base in which to base a decision, is better than shooting in the dark with nothing more than a wing and a prayer.


If Mark hasn't given it, then "probably" isn't a rational response regarding the use of the calculator as it's a fifteen inch sub and even Hsu subs, at 33mm have twenty-five percent more Xmax excursion then what you suggest the SubMersives have. FWIW, for my reasons, my concern is the SPL at the 16Hz - 25Hz range. I consider my question to be a legitimate question on both parts regarding how much current draw can be expected at the outlet while under heavy use and so I can figure out if the sub is a good fit for our room SPL wise, this calculator coupled with Xmax and my intimate knowledge of our living room helps give me the needed information to help me make the decision of; do I go with a better looking SubMersive HP (high WAF) or a better performing, yet larger and boxier looking (low WAF), Captivator 2400 with it's stated 30mm excursion. No matter which way I go, neither manufacture is going notice as this is not some veiled inquisition.

(FWIW, I can find excursion data on Hsu and Captivator subs.)

Considering the SubMersive HP sub, in the color of my choice (high WAF) is close to $3k, it's reasonable for one to want to be sure of the sonic fit before spending the money and saying "I do." Xmax, plugged into the provided calculator will help create the missing puzzle piece (how loud for a given space) and knowing the current draw will help me understand if I'll need to add the addition of a dedicated circuit to the overall cost of this subwoofer. I can't buy a stated 2,400W amplifier based on someone telling me; "Don't worry" as they're not going be responsible for any troubles I run into down the road.

With all due respect,, if the manufacture states that it's a 2,400W sub, putting this sub on a 20A circuit (capable of "only" 2,400W) is an act of futility when coupled with a seven channel AVR, Blu-ray player, Comcast DVR and a pair of high current draw subwoofers, expecting to play, THX reference level sound; max current draw. It's reasonable to want to be able to add up total watt demands so as to know circuit current demand. It's not reasonable for one to generalize current draw and say don't worry, it's good enough.

Thanks for your thoughtful effort to answer my question. If anyone has any accurate insight to questions regarding current draw or actual Xmax figures, I'd love to read more.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/31/12 at 5:53am

On the back of our Samsung Blu-ray player, Comcast provided DVR box and Marantz, SR-5007 AVR, are little tags that tell the user what the current draw of each unit is. On the back of our Klipsch, SW12-II's, is a little tag that tells the consumer what the current draw is. These tags are there for good reason. So one can total up the current draw to see if they're within circuit current draw specifications. Warnings about not exceeding circuit capabilities, are reasonable and rational and the type of behavior we teach our children.

Most houses which are twenty or thirty years old, use 15A circuits for living room and bedrooms; 1,800W limitation if connected to 120V. Older homes still, built in pre 60's,, if the electrical has not been upgraded, use 5A and 10A circuits. Many homes are on knob-n-tube as opposed to "Romex" style cable and still use fused circuits as opposed to resettable circuit breakers. Some houses still have aluminum wiring. All of this means something to me as it may not mean anything to others.

Knowing the total circuit draw is a rational question. Looking out for not overloading circuits is considered prudent as to home wiring safety concerns; not trying to burn the house down. Making trouble and giving someone grief where there is no trouble regarding a question which qualifies as well within normal social electrical user conventions and addresses safety standards, is neither rational nor qualifies as an answer.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/31/12 at 7:09am

No need. Drama over. I made a phone call, received straight up answers from a very nice thoughtful person and there was no drama. The popcorn bar is now closed.

We had an informative conversation about home circuit limitations; max/idle current draws, length of transient amplifier demands and what would be considered a reasonable current demand at constant high volume levels. We discussed current demands of one SubMersive HP and current demands of two and what his recommendations were. We also discussed Xmax vs subwoofer amplifier needs at lower frequencies.

I'm purposely not sharing information as in my opinion, due to the unnecessary sarcastic nature of the responses to my questions, they do not merit the voluntary insight of my efforts; I'm ticked. The point, why make drama where there is no drama when one, in the simple, can politely have a mature conversation and discuss questions in a civil and rational (adult) fashion?

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/31/12 at 9:17am

Thanks!

At these prices (not to be construed as a complaint or whine), I want to make sure what we're spending our money on and to make sure, unintentionally, I'm not creating additionally pricey wiring problems. If I don't need a dedicated circuit, I'm good.

And the answer to the question was, using one HP, ~800w during peak constant usage with transients not being sufficient to worry about.

Today I measured and balanced our current pair of subwoofers and made note of the 1m reading vs the reading one gets at the main listening position; a 3dB drop as opposed to an expected drop of 6dB. That's a good thing. The joke is on me. For us, this is not a hobby. My goal is to educate and upgrade an aged system and then fer-get-about-it.

No I didn't. None of those posts were helpful. The phone call to Seaton was. There was no rant. Keep the drama. You're on ignore. The popcorn bar is closed.

(And FWIW, graphs do matter and do help in educated purchase decisions and it's reasonable for all who care to want to look at graphs but in this case, this is now a dead horse. Please stop beating on the poor, long dead horse.)

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/31/12 at 11:28am

I was looking for exacting information and did my best to make this point clear. There's nothing wrong with asking for exacting information. There is something wrong with giving inexact information when asked for exact information. For me it became a dead horse issue once I gave Seaton a call. To me, with all due respect, for my purposes, fully respecting the thoughtfulness of the above reply, in my opinion, is an example which qualifies as a non-answer to an exacting question which, despite protests to the other-wise, makes it an unhelpful reply. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the thoughtfulness of your efforts.

And FWIW, my questions have been accurately answered by a call to Seaton. The questions have been answered. Thank-you.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 10/31/12 at 12:25pm

You do realize your above is why Congress should outlaw Thanksgiving. I guess it's a safe bet to say that you won't miss me while on vacation over the next week?

Thanks!

Although my guess was wrong, not wanting to trouble Mark or any other tech departments with these types of questions, I reasonably figured you guys, if asked an exacting question, were up to the task of either providing an exacting answer or simply saying they didn't know. I was wrong. Oh well.

The response regarding the addition of a second SubMersive HP with the normal compliment of additional appliances attached to the same circuit, was, it wouldn't hurt to consider adding a dedicated circuit. Why? A 15A circuit, running two subs being driven hard, will draw 1,600W. Considering a 15A circuit is capable of providing 1,800W, when an AVR which is also being driven hard at ~350W along with 60" LCD television and Comcast provided DVR, will easily exceeding the 15A circuit limit. Now the internal wires start heating up and I don't wish to have to explain to family, friends or insurance company why I chose to overload a circuit when I knew better. The point, one may call me deserved names but I'm not going burn our house down because I didn't want to take the time to find out what's what with what.

We're going on vacation, I'm even making sure the batteries are charged and we have candy, trail mix, nuts, soup, water and toilet paper in case we get stuck on the side of the road for who knows how long. I hate foreseeable problems and not having enough toilet paper to see us through. I'm no fun at a party but I'm great to have around in an emergency. That's who I am; Mr Anal.

Naw. When on vacation, I pretty much try to leave all dead horses at home. Leaves more room for toilet paper.