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Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 247

post #7381 of 9374
Bill
That is a hell of a good system. As good as it gets!!!!
Every single piece is outstanding.
Enjoy
Chris
post #7382 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Bill
That is a hell of a good system. As good as it gets!!!!
Every single piece is outstanding.
Enjoy
Chris

Thanks Chris.

I can hardly wait to have everything arrive and setup properly. My wife thinks I'm crazy. eek.gif

Cheers,
-- Bill --
post #7383 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Congrats on your successful F2 delivery.
My 2 F2's were also delivered earlier today along with 3 Cat12C's and their stands. Apparently my 4 Cat8C's and stands will not arrive for another 2 to 3 weeks. I just ordered a Seymour 120" wide AT screen this morning (about 30 minutes before the speaker delivery) but the screen won't be delivered until the first week of December due to the American Thanksgiving. If my Epson 6020 arrives latter today or tomorrow I'll be watching movies on a white bed sheet and listening to 3.2 sound. The sacrifices we all have to make in this hobby. LOL

Ummmm...best week ever? Lol.....thats some great gear all procured around the same time....and I welcome you to the F2 club! When mine came, after the hookup and initial listening, I sat on a stool and just stared at them for a while.
post #7384 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Congrats on your successful F2 delivery.
My 2 F2's were also delivered earlier today along with 3 Cat12C's and their stands. Apparently my 4 Cat8C's and stands will not arrive for another 2 to 3 weeks. I just ordered a Seymour 120" wide AT screen this morning (about 30 minutes before the speaker delivery) but the screen won't be delivered until the first week of December due to the American Thanksgiving. If my Epson 6020 arrives latter today or tomorrow I'll be watching movies on a white bed sheet and listening to 3.2 sound. The sacrifices we all have to make in this hobby. LOL

Ummmm...best week ever? Lol.....thats some great gear all procured around the same time....and I welcome you to the F2 club! When mine came, after the hookup and initial listening, I sat on a stool and just stared at them for a while.

Best week ever? It's probably my best day ever.

Now it time for me to go to the garage and move 2 skids full of speakers down into the basement. eek.gif
post #7385 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

On the seventh day, the Lord created subwoofer, and all was good in heaven and on earth.

Oh, wow. Just wow!  They arrived at 8.00 this morning, all packaging etc intact. They have been unboxed and put in the HT room, where they sat for a few hours to let the electronics adjust to the temperature indoors (they were very cold on arrival). I have since hooked them up to check they are all OK (they are) and, of course, have had to have a listen, without Audyssey on just to see what real woofage is all about smile.gif Initial impression is this:

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I will run Audyssey Pro later, measure, do the sub distance tweak, experiment with XOs etc etc etc and will report back here when they are properly setup, calibrated and giving their best.

For now, wow! WOW!

@Mark - thanks for the help you and Kelly gave in resolving the Customs problem at this end. There was no sensible reason for Customs to hold them back and thankfully, they realised that, costing me just a week's delay in woofage.

@Everyone else - thanks for this thread, for the help and advice it contains, and for the encouragement to do this thing. Two F2s in such a small room. Crazy. Totally crazy. But then, one has to remember: you can never have too much woofage smile.gif

Until later...

Congratulations man!!!!! You will long remember this day as the day your life.....errrr....theater expectations changed forever! Lesser subs shall no longer suffice, and when you hear LFE in the cineplex movie theater, you'll often wonder how much bass information you're missing, and when the film gets to blu ray, you'll skip to all the bass scenes (the ones you took mental note of) to hear them as the mixers intended. Enjoy!
Edited by BrolicBeast - 11/20/12 at 4:08am
post #7386 of 9374
Today I received my new submersive HP. Just finished setting it up and trying it out with some music. HOLY ****!!!!! Acoustic bass = best I've ever heard except for live...and the sub is not even dialed in yet! I simply cannot imagine what 2 or more of these things would do. eek.gifeek.gif
post #7387 of 9374
Congrats Keith! Glad to hear they finally got there.


Max
post #7388 of 9374
That is awesome Keith. Welcome to the Seaton Sub-Aholics group.

You will LOVE THEM even more when set up and dialed in. X-32 and great sub placement and room treatment will provide the very best bass money can buy. And for grins, after you do get them dialed in and the family is away, play one of the well know awesome bass movies close to or at reference (or above if you are brave).

Enjoy your new toys tongue.gif

And you are right: you can NEVER have too much woofage. NEVER !!
post #7389 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

That is awesome Keith. Welcome to the Seaton Sub-Aholics group.

You will LOVE THEM even more when set up and dialed in. X-32 and great sub placement and room treatment will provide the very best bass money can buy. And for grins, after you do get them dialed in and the family is away, play one of the well know awesome bass movies close to or at reference (or above if you are brave).

Enjoy your new toys tongue.gif

And you are right: you can NEVER have too much woofage. NEVER !!

I still haven't got my 2 F2's out of the boxes because they were just delivered yesterday. But I'm wondering how the room will sound with another pair in the back of the room. eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif
post #7390 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

I'm wondering how the room will sound with another pair in the back of the room. eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

Better than just two in the front, and I can say that with authority as that is what I had and did. Join us !!! What a great Christmas gift from you to you smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif
Edited by audioguy - 11/20/12 at 6:48am
post #7391 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Kompany View Post

Today I received my new submersive HP. Just finished setting it up and trying it out with some music. HOLY ****!!!!! Acoustic bass = best I've ever heard except for live...and the sub is not even dialed in yet! I simply cannot imagine what 2 or more of these things would do. eek.gifeek.gif

Are you by any chance a football (soccer) player? eek.gif
post #7392 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Kbarnes, glad you got them and glad they are all you hoped they would be. Have fun finish setting them up and watching all your movies again.

 

Mike - thanks very much! And thanks again for your never-ending encouragement and enthusiasm in this thread.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

You could save yourself a lot of time and trouble by simply getting the "WOW" Blu-ray, some Vermont air dried (on the naked thighs of virgins) maple stands with big brass balls, an SPL meter and a huge fan to blow all that Submersive goodness around the room.

 

Hahaha!  LOL!!  Oh yes... I did choose black maple veneer for my F2s - not sure if it was air-dried though - LOL!  But it looks as good as the F2s sound - mean, meaty and definitely not to be messed with - this is *serious* woofage.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post


Well that explains the cancellation of the British Customs House Bassfest 2012 originally scheduled for this weekend tongue.gif

Congrats Keith!

 

That is seriously funny! LOL!  Thanks for the congrats - I am grinning from ear to ear, the system has never sounded nearly so awesome.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Congrats on your successful F2 delivery.

My 2 F2's were also delivered earlier today along with 3 Cat12C's and their stands. Apparently my 4 Cat8C's and stands will not arrive for another 2 to 3 weeks. I just ordered a Seymour 120" wide AT screen this morning (about 30 minutes before the speaker delivery) but the screen won't be delivered until the first week of December due to the American Thanksgiving. If my Epson 6020 arrives latter today or tomorrow I'll be watching movies on a white bed sheet and listening to 3.2 sound. The sacrifices we all have to make in this hobby. LOL

 

Thanks! Now that is some high quality sh*t you have lined up there!! Wow!

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Congratulations man!!!!! You will long remember this day as the day your life.....errrr....theater expectations changed forever! Lesser subs shall no longer suffice, and when you hear LFE in the cineplex movie theater, you'll often wonder how much bass information you're missing, and when the film gets to blu ray, you'll skip to all the bass scenes (the ones you took mental note of) to hear them as the mixers intended. Enjoy!

 

Thanks Brolic... I have joined the Serious Woofage set at last. I have calibrated with Audyssey Pro today, then tweaked a little using the OmniMic and I am very, very happy. It's not just the sheer quantity of bass, although that is prodigious (I am almost flat to 15Hz and only a little down at 10Hz and 7Hz) - it is also the quality of the bass as you and the other guys know already. Beautifully tight, controlled bass that seduces me every time I play something (which I have done non-stop since getting them). A full report will follow when I can drag myself away from the HT.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Congrats Keith! Glad to hear they finally got there.


Max

 

Yeah - better late than never (definitely!). Thanks Max. It was you who set me on this road some time back, for which I will be forever grateful.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

That is awesome Keith. Welcome to the Seaton Sub-Aholics group.

You will LOVE THEM even more when set up and dialed in. X-32 and great sub placement and room treatment will provide the very best bass money can buy. And for grins, after you do get them dialed in and the family is away, play one of the well know awesome bass movies close to or at reference (or above if you are brave).

Enjoy your new toys tongue.gif

And you are right: you can NEVER have too much woofage. NEVER !!

 

Thanks audioguy. I am limited on placement in my small Brit-style room, but the room is extensively treated and I use Audyssey Pro (on an XT32-equipped Onkyo 5509 prepro) and have an OmniMic for final tweakery. The result is amazingly good.

 

When I ordered the pair of F2s I didn't really consider how small my room is - I just kinda ordered a pair because I have had dual subs for ever and am committed to the benefits they bring, so when I decided to order the F2s, I just automatically asked Mark for two. Then I started to wonder if I had gone too far and it would be too much for the room. But there's no way!  They are magnificent in this small room so I guess the axiom is correct and I am the living proof: you can never have too much woofage!

post #7393 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

I still haven't got my 2 F2's out of the boxes because they were just delivered yesterday. But I'm wondering how the room will sound with another pair in the back of the room. eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

 

LOL!!!  You are seriously addicted... not even got them out of the boxes and already considering two more!  I love it. :)

post #7394 of 9374
Single digit Hz reproduction is fun isn't it? smile.gif
Have you checked out WOTW yet? I always love the pod scene, but once you have single digit capability, the lightning strikes and plane crash are really something else!

And just imagine what it'll be like when the 240v HP amps come out ... (Where's that devil emoticon?)


Max
post #7395 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Single digit Hz reproduction is fun isn't it? smile.gif
Have you checked out WOTW yet? I always love the pod scene, but once you have single digit capability, the lightning strikes and plane crash are really something else!

And just imagine what it'll be like when the 240v HP amps come out ... (Where's that devil emoticon?)


Max

 

:)  Yes, WOTW was the first disc I played after calibrating. The easiest way to sum it up is that I'd never actually heard it before, despite having seen the movie several times.

 

WRT to the 240v amps, I am not sure about those in my circs. I am more than willing to upgrade, but wonder if, with two F2s in a room that's about 1000 cu ft, I will actually benefit all that much - I know it's not just about power, but my F2s are presumably on tickover almost all the time, so do you think I would benefit, really, from the amp upgrade?  Heck it won't be hard to convince me - the bragging rights alone would be worth the money - but if I'm not going to hear a benefit .... Also, I'm not sure where the gain control is set on the F2s as, due to their position, I have to do it by 'feel', but I know it's pretty close to the absolute bottom of the dial - I'm not even sure I could set it right if I had the 2400 watt amps - whaddya think Max? 

post #7396 of 9374
In that sized room, in my opinion, neither the amp upgrade nor two additional subs will make any real difference. My room is close to 4 times the cubic feet of yours and two regular submersives was fine EXCEPT on those rare scenes (like WOTW) where I played it at ear-crushing levels.

The only value for your situation for the amp upgrade would be the additional program, much of which (or maybe all of which) can be achieved with Audyssey Pro and diddling with the lower end of the target curve.

Bragging rights, on the other hand .......
post #7397 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Single digit Hz reproduction is fun isn't it? smile.gif
Have you checked out WOTW yet? I always love the pod scene, but once you have single digit capability, the lightning strikes and plane crash are really something else!
And just imagine what it'll be like when the 240v HP amps come out ... (Where's that devil emoticon?)
Max
IMO, the best scene in WotW is the when they are driving out of the city and the bridge and building blows up behind them. I don't think I've ever seen that scene graphed, but it's the lowest LFE I've ever heard / felt / experienced.

As Chuck said, the best part about the 2.4Kw amp is Pgm2. However, I believe Mark added that capability to the 1Kw amps also. Is that correct? If so, it could eat up some headroom, but with duals in a small room, it would likely still be worth trying.

Craig
post #7398 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

IMO, the best scene in WotW is the when they are driving out of the city and the bridge and building blows up behind them. I don't think I've ever seen that scene graphed, but it's the lowest LFE I've ever heard / felt / experienced.
As Chuck said, the best part about the 2.4Kw amp is Pgm2. However, I believe Mark added that capability to the 1Kw amps also. Is that correct? If so, it could eat up some headroom, but with duals in a small room, it would likely still be worth trying.
Craig
Agree %100 with that WOTW statement biggrin.gif. But that is just one movie. You have to give HTTYD, TRON and all the others a spin as well. And I guess I am crazy then for having the HP am in my room tongue.gif. But you know what, I really don't care.
post #7399 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Single digit Hz reproduction is fun isn't it? smile.gif

Have you checked out WOTW yet? I always love the pod scene, but once you have single digit capability, the lightning strikes and plane crash are really something else!


And just imagine what it'll be like when the 240v HP amps come out ... (Where's that devil emoticon?)



Max

smile.gif  Yes, WOTW was the first disc I played after calibrating. The easiest way to sum it up is that I'd never actually heard it before, despite having seen the movie several times.

WRT to the 240v amps, I am not sure about those in my circs. I am more than willing to upgrade, but wonder if, with two F2s in a room that's about 1000 cu ft, I will actually benefit all that much - I know it's not just about power, but my F2s are presumably on tickover almost all the time, so do you think I would benefit, really, from the amp upgrade?  Heck it won't be hard to convince me - the bragging rights alone would be worth the money - but if I'm not going to hear a benefit .... Also, I'm not sure where the gain control is set on the F2s as, due to their position, I have to do it by 'feel', but I know it's pretty close to the absolute bottom of the dial - I'm not even sure I could set it right if I had the 2400 watt amps - whaddya think Max? 
Well, it all depends...

Do you really want to take the risk of my putting that bee in your bonnet? As you well know, it can be pretty hard to get rid of once it gets in there. If you do, then read on, if not, then don't click the spoiler tag biggrin.gif

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
You posted this:
Quote:
It's not just the sheer quantity of bass, although that is prodigious (I am almost flat to 15Hz and only a little down at 10Hz and 7Hz)
Almost flat to 15Hz and only a little down at 10Hz and 7Hz? How far down and at what db? 75db? 85db? THX LFE Reference Limits of 115db? We all know some of the more insane movies have content down to 2-3Hz. At this time, I can only dream of Reference down to that (C'mon lottery and Thigpen Rotary!)
I'm not sure if the standard amp gives you the option of Prgm 1 and Prgm 2, but I mentioned that Submersive-holic's tweak of calibrating in Prgm 1 then switching to Prgm 2 for the slight sub-40Hz boost (helps with the Equal Loudness Contours and all that). What the 2400 watt amp will give you is more oomph down low (as CJ mentioned, this tweak eats up headroom). In that small room, 2x2400 watts will get you a lot closer down low than those of us with bigger rooms. Yes, you might potentially have to add an attenuator for the level calibration. My HP's certainly are way down near the Min end of the knob. Only you can decide if chasing those added db's down that low matter enough to you.

I can tell you my personal feelings the first time I 'felt' WOTW with my less-than-Reference single Hz capability. Only two thoughts popped into my head at the time. The first was, "WOW................",

the second was, "I WANT MOAAARRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!" LOL!


Max
post #7400 of 9374
I had a GTG at my house last night to hear the new JTR speakers and the Submersives were nuts as usual. There was a scene in Cabin in the Woods that knocked a handful of board games off a bookshelf and that's never happened before. Meanwhile the bass was also causing the lens shift on my projector to to slide the image way down on the screen even with a piece of tape holding it in place and then me holding the lens shift with my finger. Crazy.

The couch along my wall gets an insane amount of bass. I sat there during a bass heavy scene and it really is like there are bass shakers in that couch. My main LP gets some good shaking too, but like 20 percent of what the couch on the wall gets. I wish I could get than in my LP.
post #7401 of 9374
As Max suggested, (in the "spoiler"), the tweak for using Pgm2 is to run Audyssey with the F2's in Pgm1 and then afterwards switch to PGM2. If you just run Audyssey in Pgm2, Audyssey will reverse the additional output of PGM2 down low. The only way to get the additional ULF output is to "fool" (or as pepar would say, "game") Audyssey with this tweak.

As I mentioned before in the Audyssey thread, if you use this tweak, it is probably unwise to *also* run DEQ. The two together will provide seriously "hot" bass and eat up even more headroom.

Craig
post #7402 of 9374
Craig: since u have 3 hp's, you'd probably have plenty of headroom to try deq and see what happens. Sometimes it works in my room and sometimes it is just too much bass -- but no lack of headroom.

Mostly, for action movies, I use Pgm2 AND have the bass a few db's hot and don't use deq. With most music, i put the bass back to flat, Pgm 2 and no deq
post #7403 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Craig: since u have 3 hp's, you'd probably have plenty of headroom to try deq and see what happens. Sometimes it works in my room and sometimes it is just too much bass -- but no lack of headroom.
Mostly, for action movies, I use Pgm2 AND have the bass a few db's hot and don't use deq. With most music, i put the bass back to flat, Pgm 2 and no deq
I have tried Pgm2 + DEQ and it is just too much bass for my taste. Of course, at full RL, it doesn't make any difference, but at anything less than full RL, (and I almost never listen to music at 0 MVC), the bass is overpowering with DEQ. I've tried the RL offset, and still don't like it. I am quite content with just Pgm2 by itself. smile.gif

Craig
post #7404 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Craig: since u have 3 hp's, you'd probably have plenty of headroom to try deq and see what happens. Sometimes it works in my room and sometimes it is just too much bass -- but no lack of headroom.
Mostly, for action movies, I use Pgm2 AND have the bass a few db's hot and don't use deq. With most music, i put the bass back to flat, Pgm 2 and no deq

I'm a bit confused with your above as it seems to be more about becoming bass heavy vs flat.

....................???

I get the bass head part but I get all funny when it comes to flat vs bumping the lower frequencies and on top of that, running hot.

My question is to understand the why of it being done (philosophy) as opposed to the technical of what's going on. The quiz of my question is, we work hard to get a flat frequency curve and then we're encouraged to turn up the left third of the LFE channel while bumping the gain a few more dB.........confused.gif huh?
post #7405 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I'm a bit confused with your above as it seems to be more about becoming bass heavy vs flat.
....................???
I get the bass head part but I get all funny when it comes to flat vs bumping the lower frequencies and on top of that, running hot.
My question is to understand the why of it being done (philosophy) as opposed to the technical of what's going on. The quiz of my question is, we work hard to get a flat frequency curve and then we're encouraged to turn up the left third of the LFE channel while bumping the gain a few more dB.........confused.gif huh?

After I run Audyssey, I use PGM2 and the result is flat bass. While I do get the 2 to 3 db increase from 40hz down with PGM2, it brings the overall response back to flat. For reasons I can not explain, my bass is "flatter" (south of 40hz) before I run Audyssey but Audyssey eliminates the bass ringing so the overall sound is much improved. By using PGM2, I end up with flat bass and have no ringing.

DEQ takes into account the apparent loss of low frequencies at volumes below reference and boosts it --- but I don't like the way it sounds. So, since I seldom listen at reference, I add a few db's to the bass for my own fixed version of DEQ. It adds a bit more "oomph" for action movies but isn't so extreme that it messes up non-action movies, or more importantly, dialog. I have seen graphs of Craig's response with PGM2 and that is how mine looks doing what I have described.
post #7406 of 9374
Before I forget, everyone have a Happy Thanksgiving. We all have much to be thankful for.
post #7407 of 9374
A quick update. I was finally able to get all of the speakers (2 x F2's and 3 x 12C's) down into the basement yesterday (with a little help from a strong friend biggrin.gif). It wasn't until after dinner that I was able to unpack and setup the speakers. NOTHING has been "tuned" as of yet - no Audyssey and Cat12's are still sitting on the floor, no video either because the projector hasn't arrived yet. Obviously less than ideal conditions. All I can say is holy sh!t. I was up until 3:15 this morning listening to 2.1 music. Thank God I've a VERY understanding wife.

Hopefully I'll be able to get the speakers on their stands sometime over the next couple of days which should help immensely. I'm definitely NOT going to do this by myself for obvious reasons. Perhaps a more descriptive review once some fundamental tweaks have been made.

I assume that these speakers will improve with some break in - if so how many hours?
post #7408 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

smile.gif  Yes, WOTW was the first disc I played after calibrating. The easiest way to sum it up is that I'd never actually heard it before, despite having seen the movie several times.

put Underworld - Awakening on your que
the whole movie is a sonic masterpiece -
post #7409 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I'm a bit confused with your above as it seems to be more about becoming bass heavy vs flat.
....................???
I get the bass head part but I get all funny when it comes to flat vs bumping the lower frequencies and on top of that, running hot.
My question is to understand the why of it being done (philosophy) as opposed to the technical of what's going on. The quiz of my question is, we work hard to get a flat frequency curve and then we're encouraged to turn up the left third of the LFE channel while bumping the gain a few more dB.........confused.gif huh?

You are correct - if you buy into the goal of the Audyssey target curve (which is not totally flat btw) and EQ you have now deviated from it into a preference. But you have still not strayed far from all the benefits of Audyssey Room EQ and Chris from Audyssey did not really go to any lengths to discourage it. I use the PGM2 tweak myself.
post #7410 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post


DEQ takes into account the apparent loss of low frequencies at volumes below reference and boosts it --- but I don't like the way it sounds.

I get the part about running Audyssey in Pgm 1 and then switching to Pgm 2 but I don't get bumping the gain. Disclosure, I'm not a "true" bass head, hence why I posted my question as being a philosophical question as opposed to a tech question.

FWIW, I stopped using DEQ or on my system Home Theater EQ; not to be confused with "Dynamic Compression" which is set to "Medium" I found Home Theater EQ took away from the dynamic range of the soundtrack. It's great for television viewing at low levels but in my opinion, ruins a movie soundtrack and takes away the dynamics of the overall feel of the track. It's great for TV, terrible for movie tracks, a pain to turn on and off so now, I leave it off. tongue.gif

FWIW, my level of sophistication hasn't come up to graphing the response of the room or the speakers output. I feel if I'm going hang around, it becomes a requisite. biggrin.gif That time will come.

Again, I'm just trying to understand the philosophy behind some of what folks here do. As an example, today I did things without looking (poured water), depending on my hearing to tell me what was happening (when the container was full); sharpening auditory response. Today, I stood outside and with eyes closed, listened to water falling off trees, the bluster of the wind in the treetops and background noises to increase the 3D nature on the auditory system; sound location. In my opinion, familiarity of sound (space) is as important as the reproduction process itself.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/21/12 at 9:01am
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