Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 248

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Originally Posted by audioguy 

In that sized room, in my opinion, neither the amp upgrade nor two additional subs will make any real difference. My room is close to 4 times the cubic feet of yours and two regular submersives was fine EXCEPT on those rare scenes (like WOTW) where I played it at ear-crushing levels.

The only value for your situation for the amp upgrade would be the additional program, much of which (or maybe all of which) can be achieved with Audyssey Pro and diddling with the lower end of the target curve.

Bragging rights, on the other hand .......

Yes, I agree with you wrt to the amp upgrade in my room. I have the additional program - Mark kindly installed it for all of us new 1000 watt owners.

As for bragging rights.... well, 2400 definitely trumps 1000 - oh yes! :)

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Originally Posted by djbluemax1 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

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Originally Posted by djbluemax1 

Single digit Hz reproduction is fun isn't it?

Have you checked out WOTW yet? I always love the pod scene, but once you have single digit capability, the lightning strikes and plane crash are really something else!


And just imagine what it'll be like when the 240v HP amps come out ... (Where's that devil emoticon?)



Max

 Yes, WOTW was the first disc I played after calibrating. The easiest way to sum it up is that I'd never actually heard it before, despite having seen the movie several times.

WRT to the 240v amps, I am not sure about those in my circs. I am more than willing to upgrade, but wonder if, with two F2s in a room that's about 1000 cu ft, I will actually benefit all that much - I know it's not just about power, but my F2s are presumably on tickover almost all the time, so do you think I would benefit, really, from the amp upgrade?  Heck it won't be hard to convince me - the bragging rights alone would be worth the money - but if I'm not going to hear a benefit .... Also, I'm not sure where the gain control is set on the F2s as, due to their position, I have to do it by 'feel', but I know it's pretty close to the absolute bottom of the dial - I'm not even sure I could set it right if I had the 2400 watt amps - whaddya think Max? 

Well, it all depends...

Do you really want to take the risk of my putting that bee in your bonnet? As you well know, it can be pretty hard to get rid of once it gets in there. If you do, then read on, if not, then don't click the spoiler tag

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

You posted this:

Quote:

It's not just the sheer quantity of bass, although that is prodigious (I am almost flat to 15Hz and only a little down at 10Hz and 7Hz)

Almost flat to 15Hz and only a little down at 10Hz and 7Hz? How far down and at what db? 75db? 85db? THX LFE Reference Limits of 115db? We all know some of the more insane movies have content down to 2-3Hz. At this time, I can only dream of Reference down to that (C'mon lottery and Thigpen Rotary!)
I'm not sure if the standard amp gives you the option of Prgm 1 and Prgm 2, but I mentioned that Submersive-holic's tweak of calibrating in Prgm 1 then switching to Prgm 2 for the slight sub-40Hz boost (helps with the Equal Loudness Contours and all that). What the 2400 watt amp will give you is more oomph down low (as CJ mentioned, this tweak eats up headroom). In that small room, 2x2400 watts will get you a lot closer down low than those of us with bigger rooms. Yes, you might potentially have to add an attenuator for the level calibration. My HP's certainly are way down near the Min end of the knob. Only you can decide if chasing those added db's down that low matter enough to you.

I can tell you my personal feelings the first time I 'felt' WOTW with my less-than-Reference single Hz capability. Only two thoughts popped into my head at the time. The first was, "WOW................",

the second was, "I WANT MOAAARRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!" LOL!

Max

LOL!  I cannot disagree with anything you said there, Max. I am still not done tweaking yet, so I believe I will get to flat at 15Hz and only a little below that at 10Hz, and still with 'significant' output at 7Hz once I am done. HST, my new creed is 'you can never have too much woofage' so maybe at some point I will develop the itch that has to be scratched. For now, I am more than happy - in fact I cannot yet put into words how happy I am. I had a friend over today and played him one or two 'basshead' scenes at close to reference. He was actually frightened. Really. He's not a HT nut and had no HT gear of his own, but to see his face was a picture. He was flinching and twitching in the seat....

I'll continue tweaking for a while and then settle down and just enjoy. Maybe later I will feel the need for more.... I also have to say that treating my room has made a similar sized difference to the overall experience. I should have done this ages ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioguy 

Craig: since u have 3 hp's, you'd probably have plenty of headroom to try deq and see what happens. Sometimes it works in my room and sometimes it is just too much bass -- but no lack of headroom.

Mostly, for action movies, I use Pgm2 AND have the bass a few db's hot and don't use deq. With most music, i put the bass back to flat, Pgm 2 and no deq

For the first time ever I am running my subs 3dB hot. I have never done this before because, while there's no denying it gave more 'quantity' of bass, it also gave me less quality and I preferred to trade quality for quantity (as I do in real life, always). But the F2s are so clean and have so much (AKA apparently limitless in my room) headroom I now feel, for the first time, that running them hot gives me both quality AND quantity. I experimented with running them even hotter and all was well, but I am not (amazing as this may sound) a true 'basshead' and want to keep within some sort of semblance of 'reference reality'. I'm not really into shaking the whole house and having everything in the kitchen end up on the floor - well, maybe now and then, just for grins :)  The F2s just give me a better quality of bass than I have ever heard - anywhere, not just in my own room. I have yet to summon up the courage to try Pgm 2 :). I aim to get Pgm 1 as good as I can get it before trying Pgm 2 but I know I will, sooner or later. I think with 2 x F2s in a 1000 cu foot room, headroom is never going to be an issue here :)

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Originally Posted by rx-8 

A quick update. I was finally able to get all of the speakers (2 x F2's and 3 x 12C's) down into the basement yesterday (with a little help from a strong friend ). It wasn't until after dinner that I was able to unpack and setup the speakers. NOTHING has been "tuned" as of yet - no Audyssey and Cat12's are still sitting on the floor, no video either because the projector hasn't arrived yet. Obviously less than ideal conditions. All I can say is holy sh!t. I was up until 3:15 this morning listening to 2.1 music. Thank God I've a VERY understanding wife.
 

I too will be posting a proper review once I am sure I have tweaked to the best of my, and my room's, capability. WRT to break-in, I am not a big fan of the notion, but if they do actually improve over time, all I can say is 'holy cr8p, will they sound good!!!' because they sure as heck sound amazing right now.

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Originally Posted by GPBURNS 

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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

 Yes, WOTW was the first disc I played after calibrating. The easiest way to sum it up is that I'd never actually heard it before, despite having seen the movie several times.

put Underworld - Awakening on your que
the whole movie is a sonic masterpiece -

I have that - will give it a go - thanks. I also gather that Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter is a bassfest too - I have it but have not yet played it, although friends whose opinion I respect say the movie is a whole lot more enjoyable than it has any right to be, so I am looking forward to what the F2s can do with it.

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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke 

Yea. You are good to go Keith. Have fun watching all your movies over again. Duals in that room should keep you quite happy for some time. I know my single HP keeps me happy all the time.

Thanks Mike. I am sure you are right!