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Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 248

post #7411 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

You are correct - if you buy into the goal of the Audyssey target curve (which is not totally flat btw) and EQ you have now deviated from it into a preference. But you have still not strayed far from all the benefits of Audyssey Room EQ and Chris from Audyssey did not really go to any lengths to discourage it. I use the PGM2 tweak myself.

eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif
I am SHOCKED at this!

I know you place little value on my measurements, but here is exactly how far you stray from Reference with Pgm2:

post #7412 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

the Audyssey target curve (which is not totally flat btw)

It most certainly can be totally flat with Audyssey Pro -- or lots of other shapes if you wish. I have no clue what the target curve looks like that is the "stock" curve from my pre-pro but based upon Craig's post (which is not from Audyssey Pro) it certainly appears FLAT!
Edited by audioguy - 11/21/12 at 9:19am
post #7413 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post



Interesting. The overall response with Pgm2 enabled looks just like mine. And by that I mean, to me, it looks "flatter" from about 100hz down with Pgm2 and does not have the fall-off starting at 40hz that seems to exist with Pgm1. But then my eyes could be "not flat"

I'm using my daughters computer so I can't display my response
post #7414 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

It most certainly can be totally flat with Audyssey Pro -- or lots of other shapes if you wish. I have no clue what the target curve looks like that is the "stock" curve from my pre-pro but based upon Craig's post (which is not from Audyssey Pro) it certainly appears FLAT!

Of course but OP said nothing about Audyssey Pro. Don't even know what Johns is SHOCKED about so won't comment because I know he's easily SHOCKED at just about anything. eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif
post #7415 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Of course but OP said nothing about Audyssey Pro. Don't even know what Johns is SHOCKED about so won't comment because I know he's easily SHOCKED at just about anything. eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif
I'm shocked that you would stray from "reference." In the past, you've been an absolute disciple of Audyssey Reference being somehow monolithic, and have stated multiple times that it can't be improved upon by us mere mortals and our inadequate measurement capabilities. Your reversal of that is... shocking! Next you'll be taking measurements yourself! eek.gif
post #7416 of 9374
Uh, no I have stated before I have done the PGM2 tweak if it were not so hard to use search now and I had the inclination I could go find it. Yes I give great credence to Audyssey and consider this a minor deviation. SHOCKING! (or guess you have toned it down some).. shocking! eek.gif
post #7417 of 9374
Sorry I'm late to the party. Is the "PGM2 tweak" running Audyssey in PGM1 mode then switching to PGM2 after the Audyssey calibration has been completed?
post #7418 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Uh, no I have stated before I have done the PGM2 tweak if it were not so hard to use search now and I had the inclination I could go find it. Yes I give great credence to Audyssey and consider this a minor deviation. SHOCKING! (or guess you have toned it down some).. shocking! eek.gif

Oh... you mean this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Mark told me to not use it if you have a "preference for non-exaggerated bass" which I do. It's certainly another option if your preference is not reference bass though.

biggrin.gif
post #7419 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Sorry I'm late to the party. Is the "PGM2 tweak" running Audyssey in PGM1 mode then switching to PGM2 after the Audyssey calibration has been completed?
Yes.
post #7420 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Sorry I'm late to the party. Is the "PGM2 tweak" running Audyssey in PGM1 mode then switching to PGM2 after the Audyssey calibration has been completed?

Check out post 7405. It's all there and hopefully should bring you up to speed. The short version would be "yes" in response to your question.
post #7421 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Oh... you mean this:
biggrin.gif

Nope. That post is 2+ years old so it would be sometime after that. Maybe even the Audyssey thread instead. Keep trying through and maybe I will make you my personal research assistant. smile.gif
post #7422 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

In that sized room, in my opinion, neither the amp upgrade nor two additional subs will make any real difference. My room is close to 4 times the cubic feet of yours and two regular submersives was fine EXCEPT on those rare scenes (like WOTW) where I played it at ear-crushing levels.

The only value for your situation for the amp upgrade would be the additional program, much of which (or maybe all of which) can be achieved with Audyssey Pro and diddling with the lower end of the target curve.

Bragging rights, on the other hand .......


Yes, I agree with you wrt to the amp upgrade in my room. I have the additional program - Mark kindly installed it for all of us new 1000 watt owners.

 

As for bragging rights.... well, 2400 definitely trumps 1000 - oh yes! :)

post #7423 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Single digit Hz reproduction is fun isn't it? smile.gif
Have you checked out WOTW yet? I always love the pod scene, but once you have single digit capability, the lightning strikes and plane crash are really something else!
And just imagine what it'll be like when the 240v HP amps come out ... (Where's that devil emoticon?)
Max
IMO, the best scene in WotW is the when they are driving out of the city and the bridge and building blows up behind them. I don't think I've ever seen that scene graphed, but it's the lowest LFE I've ever heard / felt / experienced.

As Chuck said, the best part about the 2.4Kw amp is Pgm2. However, I believe Mark added that capability to the 1Kw amps also. Is that correct? If so, it could eat up some headroom, but with duals in a small room, it would likely still be worth trying.

Craig

 

 

Yes, us 1000 watters have the additional program. I haven’t dared try it yet ;)
post #7424 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

IMO, the best scene in WotW is the when they are driving out of the city and the bridge and building blows up behind them. I don't think I've ever seen that scene graphed, but it's the lowest LFE I've ever heard / felt / experienced.
As Chuck said, the best part about the 2.4Kw amp is Pgm2. However, I believe Mark added that capability to the 1Kw amps also. Is that correct? If so, it could eat up some headroom, but with duals in a small room, it would likely still be worth trying.
Craig
Agree %100 with that WOTW statement biggrin.gif. But that is just one movie. You have to give HTTYD, TRON and all the others a spin as well. And I guess I am crazy then for having the HP am in my room tongue.gif. But you know what, I really don't care.

 

You're crazy like I'm crazy, Mike, with two 1000 watt F2s in a similar sized space to yours. And you know what, I don't care either!  You can NEVER have too much woofage.
post #7425 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Single digit Hz reproduction is fun isn't it? smile.gif

Have you checked out WOTW yet? I always love the pod scene, but once you have single digit capability, the lightning strikes and plane crash are really something else!


And just imagine what it'll be like when the 240v HP amps come out ... (Where's that devil emoticon?)



Max

smile.gif  Yes, WOTW was the first disc I played after calibrating. The easiest way to sum it up is that I'd never actually heard it before, despite having seen the movie several times.

WRT to the 240v amps, I am not sure about those in my circs. I am more than willing to upgrade, but wonder if, with two F2s in a room that's about 1000 cu ft, I will actually benefit all that much - I know it's not just about power, but my F2s are presumably on tickover almost all the time, so do you think I would benefit, really, from the amp upgrade?  Heck it won't be hard to convince me - the bragging rights alone would be worth the money - but if I'm not going to hear a benefit .... Also, I'm not sure where the gain control is set on the F2s as, due to their position, I have to do it by 'feel', but I know it's pretty close to the absolute bottom of the dial - I'm not even sure I could set it right if I had the 2400 watt amps - whaddya think Max? 
Well, it all depends...

Do you really want to take the risk of my putting that bee in your bonnet? As you well know, it can be pretty hard to get rid of once it gets in there. If you do, then read on, if not, then don't click the spoiler tag biggrin.gif

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
You posted this:
Quote:
It's not just the sheer quantity of bass, although that is prodigious (I am almost flat to 15Hz and only a little down at 10Hz and 7Hz)
Almost flat to 15Hz and only a little down at 10Hz and 7Hz? How far down and at what db? 75db? 85db? THX LFE Reference Limits of 115db? We all know some of the more insane movies have content down to 2-3Hz. At this time, I can only dream of Reference down to that (C'mon lottery and Thigpen Rotary!)
I'm not sure if the standard amp gives you the option of Prgm 1 and Prgm 2, but I mentioned that Submersive-holic's tweak of calibrating in Prgm 1 then switching to Prgm 2 for the slight sub-40Hz boost (helps with the Equal Loudness Contours and all that). What the 2400 watt amp will give you is more oomph down low (as CJ mentioned, this tweak eats up headroom). In that small room, 2x2400 watts will get you a lot closer down low than those of us with bigger rooms. Yes, you might potentially have to add an attenuator for the level calibration. My HP's certainly are way down near the Min end of the knob. Only you can decide if chasing those added db's down that low matter enough to you.

I can tell you my personal feelings the first time I 'felt' WOTW with my less-than-Reference single Hz capability. Only two thoughts popped into my head at the time. The first was, "WOW................",

the second was, "I WANT MOAAARRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!" LOL!


Max

 

LOL!  I cannot disagree with anything you said there, Max. I am still not done tweaking yet, so I believe I will get to flat at 15Hz and only a little below that at 10Hz, and still with 'significant' output at 7Hz once I am done. HST, my new creed is 'you can never have too much woofage' so maybe at some point I will develop the itch that has to be scratched. For now, I am more than happy - in fact I cannot yet put into words how happy I am. I had a friend over today and played him one or two 'basshead' scenes at close to reference. He was actually frightened. Really. He's not a HT nut and had no HT gear of his own, but to see his face was a picture. He was flinching and twitching in the seat....

 

I'll continue tweaking for a while and then settle down and just enjoy. Maybe later I will feel the need for more.... I also have to say that treating my room has made a similar sized difference to the overall experience. I should have done this ages ago.

post #7426 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

Craig: since u have 3 hp's, you'd probably have plenty of headroom to try deq and see what happens. Sometimes it works in my room and sometimes it is just too much bass -- but no lack of headroom.

Mostly, for action movies, I use Pgm2 AND have the bass a few db's hot and don't use deq. With most music, i put the bass back to flat, Pgm 2 and no deq

 

For the first time ever I am running my subs 3dB hot. I have never done this before because, while there's no denying it gave more 'quantity' of bass, it also gave me less quality and I preferred to trade quality for quantity (as I do in real life, always). But the F2s are so clean and have so much (AKA apparently limitless in my room) headroom I now feel, for the first time, that running them hot gives me both quality AND quantity. I experimented with running them even hotter and all was well, but I am not (amazing as this may sound) a true 'basshead' and want to keep within some sort of semblance of 'reference reality'. I'm not really into shaking the whole house and having everything in the kitchen end up on the floor - well, maybe now and then, just for grins :)  The F2s just give me a better quality of bass than I have ever heard - anywhere, not just in my own room. I have yet to summon up the courage to try Pgm 2 :). I aim to get Pgm 1 as good as I can get it before trying Pgm 2 but I know I will, sooner or later. I think with 2 x F2s in a 1000 cu foot room, headroom is never going to be an issue here :)

post #7427 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

A quick update. I was finally able to get all of the speakers (2 x F2's and 3 x 12C's) down into the basement yesterday (with a little help from a strong friend biggrin.gif). It wasn't until after dinner that I was able to unpack and setup the speakers. NOTHING has been "tuned" as of yet - no Audyssey and Cat12's are still sitting on the floor, no video either because the projector hasn't arrived yet. Obviously less than ideal conditions. All I can say is holy sh!t. I was up until 3:15 this morning listening to 2.1 music. Thank God I've a VERY understanding wife.
 

 

 

LOL. I know this feeling! I had to set up right away too, with no Audyssey etc. And like you, my reaction was 'holy sh1t' - it's even better since I ran Audyseey and tweaked them a little using OmniMic, so you have a total treat in store.  My wife is also amazingly understanding of my passions (as I am of hers) - when she got home from work this week and I asked her to come into the HT to look at the F2s, she said "oh yes - I like the look of those - they fit into the room really nicely"! This is also the woman who, when I finished installing numerous bass traps and treatments, said "they look really good - make it look very 'professional'". She is a keeper for sure LOL!

 

 

 

Quote:

Hopefully I'll be able to get the speakers on their stands sometime over the next couple of days which should help immensely. I'm definitely NOT going to do this by myself for obvious reasons. Perhaps a more descriptive review once some fundamental tweaks have been made.

I assume that these speakers will improve with some break in - if so how many hours?

 

I too will be posting a proper review once I am sure I have tweaked to the best of my, and my room's, capability. WRT to break-in, I am not a big fan of the notion, but if they do actually improve over time, all I can say is 'holy cr8p, will they sound good!!!' because they sure as heck sound amazing right now.

post #7428 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

smile.gif  Yes, WOTW was the first disc I played after calibrating. The easiest way to sum it up is that I'd never actually heard it before, despite having seen the movie several times.

put Underworld - Awakening on your que
the whole movie is a sonic masterpiece -

 

I have that - will give it a go - thanks. I also gather that Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter is a bassfest too - I have it but have not yet played it, although friends whose opinion I respect say the movie is a whole lot more enjoyable than it has any right to be, so I am looking forward to what the F2s can do with it.

post #7429 of 9374
Yea. You are good to go Keith. Have fun watching all your movies over again. Duals in that room should keep you quite happy for some time. I know my single HP keeps me happy all the time.
post #7430 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Yea. You are good to go Keith. Have fun watching all your movies over again. Duals in that room should keep you quite happy for some time. I know my single HP keeps me happy all the time.

Thanks Mike. I am sure you are right!

post #7431 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Nope. That post is 2+ years old so it would be sometime after that. Maybe even the Audyssey thread instead. Keep trying through and maybe I will make you my personal research assistant. smile.gif
Yeah, keep dreamin'! rolleyes.gif

Happy Thanksgiving though.
post #7432 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Yeah, keep dreamin'! rolleyes.gif
Happy Thanksgiving though.

and back at you.

Cute kid, wrong team wink.gif
post #7433 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Yeah, keep dreamin'! rolleyes.gif
Happy Thanksgiving though.


So hard to find good help these days. tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post



Guess who's running Prgm2? (and DEQ)
Sounds great too!
post #7434 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

I use the PGM2 tweak myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post


Still flattered you can't get me out of you're mind.
Guess who's running Prgm2? (and DEQ)
Sounds great too!

You do realize that there is a difference between "using the PGM2 tweak" and just "running Prgm2", right?
post #7435 of 9374
Yes I have it done per your specifications, for better or worse. biggrin.gif
post #7436 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I had a friend over today and played him one or two 'basshead' scenes at close to reference. He was actually frightened. Really. He's not a HT nut and had no HT gear of his own, but to see his face was a picture. He was flinching and twitching in the seat....

That's funny. There is a scene in one of the Bruce Willis Die Hard movies where he is driving this semi on some freeway ramps and a jet fighter is trying to eliminate him.

I have a friend who has the best two channel system I have ever heard and a really, really nice HT and I played this scene for him, and at the conclusion of that scene (played at reference), he looked at me and he was exhausted. There is so much going on and so many sounds (and some fun bass), it really is "involving".

There is not a commercial movie theater I have ever been in that can replicate that.
post #7437 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

There is a scene in one of the Bruce Willis Die Hard movies where he is driving this semi on some freeway ramps and a jet fighter is trying to eliminate him.
There is so much going on and so many sounds (and some fun bass), it really is "involving".
There is not a commercial movie theater I have ever been in that can replicate that.
"Live Free or Die Hard"
post #7438 of 9374

Happy Thanksgiving to all my American friends here on AVS!

post #7439 of 9374
I have a strange issue with my Submersive HP:

Whenever the subwoofer amp is on but there isn't an input signal (e.g., my AVR is off), the subwoofer starts picking up and amplifying radio signals. I can basically hear the radio through my subwoofer at low levels. Doesn't happen when my AVR is on... The sub is perfectly silent then.

Never had this happen before with the other subs I have owned.

Any of you experience this or know how to remedy this odd phenomenon?
post #7440 of 9374
Quote:
Originally Posted by ez-v View Post

Any of you experience this or know how to remedy this odd phenomenon?

Have you ticked anybody off in the CIA?

You might try putting a magnetic choke on your sub cable to absorb the high frequencies as the sub cable or power cable can receive and transmit radio signals to speakers.
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