Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 252

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Seaton 

Hi Keith,

I wanted to quickly thank you for your very thorough report & review. Very good to hear you are suitably blown away with the results in your room. I also want to commend your effort in getting your system dialed in. Audyssey Pro is clunky, sometimes frustrating, but also very capable.

I often get questions of "Does the SubMersive need EQ?" The only correct answer is "no more than any other capable subwoofer". You can get lucky, and as you noted, it can sound impressive, but improving the system from that point really isn't just a matter of changing subs but getting the best use of them. Sometimes that's adding more in the right locations, other times that's some time and/or money spent on optimization.

Thank you for adding to the list of customers here who have shown others just how far you can take such a system when it's a priority.

Enjoy!

Hey Mark - thanks, but it should be me who is thanking you!

It is an understatement to say I am throughly delighted with the overall improvement (not just the bass) that my dual F2s have made here. I am at a totally new level of enjoyment from my small HT. The optimisation process I went through is very rewarding as you suggest - and I may even continue in that regard, although I am not sure I can audibly improve on the graph you have already seen.

I also wanted to reassure anyone with a small room that one, or even two, Submersives are not out of order. Mike Duke has already done a sterling job in that regard and it was he who inspired me to take the plunge in my similarly sized room. I think there is a (mistaken) school of thought that believes that very powerful subs may be 'overkill' in small rooms, but Mike's experience and my own shows that this is not the case.

Add me to the Totally Satisfied And Delighted customer list! Oh yes!

Originally Posted by MIkeDuke 

Owners of small rooms UNITE . Glad I could help out Keith. Enjoy them.

-----------------------------------

Thanks Mike. I am definitely enjoying! :)

I think the point about small rooms is one worth making from time to time. There may well be many potential buyers of big, powerful subs who hesitate because they mistakenly believe their rooms are too small for them to make the most of their capabilities. In fact, there was a time I thought that too - but your experience, and mine now, shows it is definitely not the case. If we can persuade just one hesitater to take the plunge and buy a SubM (or two!) it will have been worth our while. 

I now have a second appointment with a girl in a tight rubber suit riding an extremely powerful (and odd-looking) motorcycle. I may be gone some time.... ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig john 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

I now have a second appointment with a girl in a tight rubber suit riding an extremely powerful (and odd-looking) motorcycle. I may be gone some time....

Ummm... Keith... those posts belong on the *other* forum.

Craig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Seaton 

Since this is a forum... Pictures or it didn't happen!

Feel free to use my forum if not enough on topic for here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsoko2 

Ignore Craig, he sometimes forgets these things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rx-8 

Feel free to use my forum if not enough on topic for here.

If he does that should drive a little more traffic to your forum.

OK guys, here she is....

And look - she has a friend too - do you think they share the rubber suit!

No wonder the Dark Knight rises huh? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sick Mother 

Vincent, I know what you're going through brother. I too suffer from owning only one Submersive. When I first bought it life was grand, but the more time I spent with it the more I wanted. Food lost it's taste. Feelings of inadequacy crept in. Sleep was restless at best and medications had no effect. My doctor told me I have a rare disorder called monosubmersiveitis - or MSI. He said there is a cure and that all I had to do was call Mark Seaton and order another one. This is when I found out my wife suffers from an even more tragic condition commonly referred to as NWJ, or NoWayJose! Apparently it's common in younger women with only mild symptoms but that the disease becomes very aggressive shortly after marriage.

Weeks passed. Months. LOTR was just great, same with Iron Man, Batman Begins and others. As hard as I tried I simply couldn't crack my foundation. I feared this may go on forever. Then in the spring of 2012 my doctor informed me of a new drug - the Antimode 8033. I had to take just one and most of my symptoms would disappear.

Upon taking the Antimode clarity, heft, and immediacy appeared in spades. Tron Legacy sounded ridiculous. The Dark Knight was breathtaking, and War of the Worlds could literally kill a small child.

Many months later, my system is now fabulous again. I placed my HP in the front left corner, selected program 2, crossed at 100hz, ran the Antimode and let her rip. It's an amazing little device.

If you truly suffer from MSI I would order an Antimode right away. You simply cannot afford to persist through this terrible and debilitating condition.

Best of luck

John

LOL!  Fabulous. Monosubmersiveitis.... priceless. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Kompany 

I know most of you lucky sods are running duals (or more), but I have a few setup questions for anyone like me who suffers with only one:

Do you place the sub mid wall or in a corner? If I corner load at left front, I get a ~5db boost and better extension, but the sub becomes more easily localized, especially at lower volumes (I can hear/feel the bass pressure coming from the left). Xover is set at 100 hz and can't be lowered, unfortunately. I am using prog 2.

Any suggestions appreciated!

Have you tried it in a different location such as mid-wall?  If so, does it sound better to you or worse?  Is losing the 5dB boost the issue?  Sometimes it is better to choose quality over quantity.

Do you have any measuring gear at all, such as OmniMic?  If you do, measuring what is actually happening at both locations would be a good start I think - then you would see exactly what is going on and what needs attention. If you don't, I think that when one gets to the level of equipment characterised by Submersives, some form of measuring capability becomes essential. If you read the review of my dual F2s that I recently posted, you'll get some idea of the process I had to go through to get the best out of my subs  - and I couldn't have done it without OmniMic.

AAMOI why can’t you use a XO lower than 100Hz?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Kompany 

Midwall sounds better in some respects - less localizable and better mid bass, I think - but worse in terms of output and FR/extension. Prob have to accept the tradeoffs unless i get a 2nd.

no, i don't have omnimic (yet) and can't set xover lower due to LCR limitations.

Are you using any form of EQ? Sorry - it's been a long day and I think you mentioned you had Audyssey XT32 didn't you? 

Have you tried varying the sub distance (delay) setting that Audyssey found?  I would not usually recommend anyone do that if they don't have measuring facilities as it's shooting in the dark otherwise, but it might be worth making a note of the sub distance and then varying it a little in either direction while listening to some content with decent bass. This tweak allows you to improve the splice - Audyssey doesn’t seem all that reliable at setting the delay well. Also, have you tried the sub on the mid-wall and simply increasing the trim level by a few dB to give you back some of the oomph you lost by moving away from the corner? Some people are very good at localising above 80Hz (I am not, fortunately) and this may be compounding your problem there.

One good thing about having a SubM is that you know for certain that the sub, when properly set up, located and integrated is going to give you a world-class performance - so this means any problems or issues are not with the sub itself. And that means they can probably be fixed one way or another.

An OmniMic is a terrific investment, trust me. It makes it so much easier to resolve problems like this.

Incidentally, I cross my MK S150s over at 100Hz - it's not a problem and in fact Mark recommended I try that and I did and it measured and sounded better than 80Hz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Kompany 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

Are you using any form of EQ? Sorry - it's been a long day and I think you mentioned you had Audyssey XT32 didn't you? 

Have you tried varying the sub distance (delay) setting that Audyssey found?  I would not usually recommend anyone do that if they don't have measuring facilities as it's shooting in the dark otherwise, but it might be worth making a note of the sub distance and then varying it a little in either direction while listening to some content with decent bass. This tweak allows you to improve the splice - Audyssey doesn’t seem all that reliable at setting the delay well. Also, have you tried the sub on the mid-wall and simply increasing the trim level by a few dB to give you back some of the oomph you lost by moving away from the corner? Some people are very good at localising above 80Hz (I am not, fortunately) and this may be compounding your problem there.

One good thing about having a SubM is that you know for certain that the sub, when properly set up, located and integrated is going to give you a world-class performance - so this means any problems or issues are not with the sub itself. And that means they can probably be fixed one way or another.

An OmniMic is a terrific investment, trust me. It makes it so much easier to resolve problems like this.

Incidentally, I cross my MK S150s over at 100Hz - it's not a problem and in fact Mark recommended I try that and I did and it measured and sounded better than 80Hz.

Thanks, keith. Yes, I am using xt32 (avr4311ci). Haven't tried messing with the sub distance settings yet, but that's a good shout. Probably will go back to a mid wall placement and run it hot, just as you suggested. Overall, I think i prefer the tighter punchier sound I got there, even at the expense of a few hz of ULF extension. Probably go back to prog 1 for much the same reasons.

Deffo want to pick up omnimic. Have bought a ton of new stuff recently so need to wait for the heat to die down. (WAF)

Seems to me that the mid-wall placement is giving you better bass quality and if you settle there for now and run the sub a little hot, you may have done all you can do, in the absence of measuring gear. I personally would always forego a few Hz at the very bottom end for greater quality higher up if I had to make that choice. There is a lot more real-world content from 20Hz up than there is from 20Hz down.  Once you get the OmniMic you will be able to measure exactly what is happening and that will open up a lot more possibilities for getting the ULF and the quality. You know your SubM can deliver both quality and quantity, and very low ULF too, so it's going to be a question of having the right tools to unlock that. One of the biggest improvements I made was installing treatments, but you need a lot of WAF points for that :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsoko2 

A fellow audio fan came down and helped me run REW on my Submersives. We finally placed them at 2 in front and 2 i n back of the room. Ran REW and it was flat down to 12hz. Ran the sub crossover at 80 hz. and will post charts from this later.
 

Will look forward to seeing those graphs!  Sounds like a good result. You really do need measuring gear to get the best out of subs (and some form of EQ too IMO).

Quote:

Originally Posted by nb67 

I’d like to give some feedback on Mark’s customer service. I ordered my second SubM and it arrived this Friday. UPS obviously had a field day using the box as a rubber bouncing ball. Anyway, the sub’s one corner was damaged which gives you an idea how they abused the box as the sub is extremely well packed. I emailed Mark Friday night and had a response Saturday morning assuring me that the next one is on its way come Monday morning. No hassles, no fuss. Now, if can persuade him to postpone the pickup so I can hear 3 Subm’s in my room…. bwwhahahaaa

Sorry to hear of the problem but great news that it has been resolved so quickly and so well. One of my fears about ordering my two F2s was the risk of damage in transit because returning them from the UK would not be straightforward. Fortunately mine survived their transatlantic journey (via Fedex Freight) and arrived in perfect condition - as you say, the packaging is very robust. Mark's  customer service is as good as his subs!