And yes, running Audyssey with the sub in Prgm 1 then switching to Prgm 2 after is a 'house curve' tweak that creates a slight boost in the under 40Hz region only.
^^^^Much easier (and I believe far more accurate for most) to do with a mic and some software that measures frequency response. Given the SUBSTANTIAL investment you have already in your room (even before the dual HPs) a $100 USB mic and REW (plus a laptop or PC nearby) would go a long way towards optimizing your sound quality. Check out the USB mic and HDMI setup thread here on AVS for using REW as there's a wealth of knowledge about calculating your room modes to better understand how placement is affecting your sound quality and plenty of great people willing to help. It might sound intimidating at first, but I just started measuring a few months ago with Omnimic and switched to REW so I could get some more advanced help with the placement of room treatments.
I am gasping in amazement and admiration of your HT. I make no apology for reposting the pictures as they will surely be inspirational to everyone. WRT to the sub placement, I have nothing to add to what has already been posted - all I can say is that the Submersives really reward the effort involved in optimising their performance in-room. Good luck with it all - the results are going to be breathtaking.
You are correct. Many of us run Audyssey with Pgm1 engaged and then, after Audyssey, switch the SubMs to Pgm2. Extra oomph where you want it ensues.
I didn’t see that in my measurements when I took 'before' and 'after' measurements of the difference Pgm2 vs Pgm1 made.
Can you please post your own measurements showing this 'pivot' phenomenon you describe?
Here is mine showing the effect of engaging Pgm2: (Edit - blue line is, obviously, Pgm 2, red line Pgm1)
I can’t find right now the graph showing the entire range up to 20KHz, but you will see from the one above that there is zero effect on the FR above about 45Hz and you can trust me that this zero effect continued all the way to 20KHz (as I would have expected).
I'd be interested to see your own graphs along with any explanation for the phenomenon you are describing. Thanks.
Not to go too far OT here but FWIW (and audioguy your trials and tribulations from the USB mic and HDMI thread are duly noted), I think it's worth mentioning for anyone here considering new measuring equipment that the USB mic portion of the setup is relatively plug-n-play wrt to the previous setup of REW. I think based on the evolution of the new thread, it's pretty clear that using HDMI is a subset (that may or may not make setup easier!) of the new setup and is not required to start measuring with REW. I may be oversimplifying a bit but imho the major hassle in the past with REW was having to use an external sound card (with a calibration) and a device to provide phantom power while the USB mic (and most notably here not the use of HDMI) resolves this issue completely. I believe getting REW running with a USB mic and RCA connections simplifies the setup for those less savvy Windows OS users (although the latest beta purports to run on Mac OS as well now).
I think something is wrong in that case. Moving from Pgm1 to Pgm 2 should not cause this effect. Absent your graphs, there seems little point in continuing the conversation though.
Same for me. On my superimposed graphs the plot lines merge perfectly from about 75Hz upwards, and almost perfectly from 45Hz upwards. This is what I would expect from a modification in the DSP that is designed to give a small boost only to the very bottom end.
Ah - right. That would explain it. Thanks, Craig. As he was replying to a specific post about Pgm1 and Pgm 2, and in the Submersive thread, I ASS-U-MED that he was using PGM1 and 2.
In my defence, he does seem to suggest in his post to Max that the 'pivot' he is experiencing is fairly commonplace or normal - "experience has shown me that when a boost is implemented the room's acoustics pivot" and "with a boost it is not just the left end of the graph that is affected" and "there's no free lunch" and "when [not if] it happens" are all fairly definitive remarks. Although, to be fair, he does say that his "experience will not be everybody's experience". I would go a step further and suggest that it will be NOBODY's experience if using Pgm1 and Pgm2 on the SubMs.
Your graphs and mine both show pretty conclusively, I feel, that using Mark's Pgm1 and Pgm2 settings do exactly what they are intended to do, without causing additional problems further up the FR.
You are not 'taking away the amp power' - you're not changing the 'amp power' at all in fact. The knob on the sub is a gain control not a volume control. It means that the sub amp will still reach its maximum power, but from a smaller input voltage that's all.