Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 264

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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke 

Unless I really missed something in your posts , KB, small rooms don't have to sound bad. I mean unless you have a WAF, treatments should not be an issue either. I have 8 treatments in my 9 1/2x12 1/2 x8f room. That plus proper speaker placement and XT32 has given me fantastic sound. I have treatments hanging on the all and the ceiling. Trust me, I did not want to do it and then when I did decide to do it I was only going to put 4 up. But after talking to a number of people, I ended up with 8. If you can't take pictures down for some reason or another, then you are just left with what a RC system can do for you. But my room went pretty far just with treatments. Even with my chairs very close to the back wall which I know is a no no. I could tell right away just by listening and looking at some measurements. With treatments and EQ, my combined FR is not too bad(sub is really flat). Plus it sounds really good. Craig can confirm this since he was the one that did all the EQ'ing. Don't let the fact that you have a small room make you think you are destined to have bad sound.

Hi Mike - nice to type to you again.

Sorry if I have given a mis-impression. I agree that small rooms don't have to sound bad. Mine, like yours, sounds terrific. Way better than probably 95% of rooms that most people use. I too have 8 treatments currently and am about to add more in all probability so I am with you there. WAF is not an issue for me as it is a dedicated room. The SQ is fabulous, helped by good speakers, superb subs and a lt of effort with what placement options are available (limited, as yours are). Plus XT32 of course and a lot of measuring with OmniMic and, more lately, REW.

What I was trying to say is that the small, squarish room is now the major limitation on the SQ. My equipment is all first class, FR is pretty flat, my ETCs are not bad at all and will soon be more or less excellent (when I add a little more absorption to control a couple of reflections that are bugging me) but I have a persistent issue at 20-30Hz which is very difficult to resolve. So it is far from bad sound and probably not far from as good as it can ever be in this room. Like a lot of people around these parts, I am striving for the impossible - the perfect SQ I guess - and perfect measurements to go with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrolicBeast 

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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

“…My main problem is my room - it is too small……. Actually, it graphs worse than it sounds.”

My upstairs sealed media room is pretty small (14x8). It has a sealed Emotiva Ultra Sub12 and sounds remarkable. I haven’t done (and don’t plan to do) any measurements in that room. Space limits placement, so measurements would be more of a confirmation tool and less of a tweaking tool in that room. I believe good sound is more than just measurements, as I only started measuring and tweaking my Submersives last fall, but have been enjoying my theater and Media Room for over 6 years without measurement-based tweaking. I would have no problem showing someone a graph that’s less than impressive of my secondary room and saying “…yeah, but it sounds great--sue me!”

I hear you. And especially when you say that in a small room, space limits what you can do, so measuring can be a force for evil - you measure, it shows a problem, but you cannot resolve it because there is just no way you can put the subs (for example) where they need to go to fix the issue you can see plain as day in the measurements. I am a huge believer though in the value of measuring, so that I can be really sure what is going on and know with great precision the problem areas. I am probably a little obsessive about it - I know, for example, that my FR which is flat + or - 6dB across the entire spectrum is perfectly good for any normal purpose - but I'd still like to try to get it to + or - 3dB. Don't get me wrong - the SQ in my room is stunning IMO - but that waterfall showing a persistent resonance at 20-30z really bugs me... ;)

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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice 

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Indeed. I have graphed the response in REW using waterfalls. I have no problems until I get down to about 30Hz, which isn't so bad, then more at 20Hz or so, which is, as expected, worse.

You may be a victim of Graphitis Nervosa: You see it on a graph and then endlessly kvetch about it, even though it's exceedingly unlikely you can actually hear it. Ringing at 80-100Hz, very audible. Ringing at 20Hz... hey, you can barely hear the first impulse at 20Hz, let alone any ringing. And, shy of the above mentioned method, not likely you can do anything about it.

Good points Bill. I suspect you are right on the money with your diagnosis of Graphitis Nervosa ;)  Also, I hadn't considered your point about the barely-audibly 20Hz level - excellent point. That also explains why it sounds so much better than it looks.

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Originally Posted by FroggyTaco 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

My equipment is all first class, FR is pretty flat

If you don't mind sharing, besides the SubM's what is the rest of your equipment?

Travis

MK S150s left, right, centre, M&K SS150 tripoles surround, M&K LCR55 heights, Onkyo 5509 prepro, Emotiva XPA-3 driving LCR, Emotiva UPA-2 driving surrounds, Emotiva UPA-2 driving heights, Oppo 93 BD player, Crown XLS1000 Drivecore driving Buttkicker, Panasonic BDDM35 BD player (Region 1 modded). 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinoy ako 

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Originally Posted by audioguy 


And I would still take a single SubMersive with Anti-Mode over a single DD-18+ if they were the same price.

Do i need an Anti-mode if i have a receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and Audyssey Sub EQ HT?

Sorry for the noob question. Thanks.

No, you do not need the AntiMode as well. But you might want one - the AM has user-customisable filters that you do not have in XT32 and some might consider running both together. I would absolutely want to measure the system to be able to see precisely what I was doing if I went that route, so REW or OmniMic would be on the same order when I bought the AM. Using twin forms of EQ can be tricky - unless you understand the issues fully, I would stick with XT32 - it does an exceptional job.