Seaton Sound SubMersive1 - Page 269

 

The main difference of course is that the cable sound is DD 5.1 whereas the BD sound is (usually) one of the lossless codecs - Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA. 

 

Here in the UK my satellite TV service gives me full-fat DD 5.1 sound on movies etc and I can hear no difference at all between the 5.1 off the satellite TV and 5.1 off a DVD. YMMV in the US of course.

Craig - Thanks so much for the reply and advice. I will look into getting the omnimic to measure where I am at. Also, thanks for the link to your process for integrating your subs.

So does the subwoofer channel goes as low on cable movies as it would on blu-ray?

 

You might also want to consider REW which is more powerful and flexible than OmniMic. The latest version of REW only requires a single HDMI connection to the laptop. A suitable, individually calibrated mic is about $100 so that also makes REW the cheaper option (the software is free).

Check out the new REW thread linked in my sig for more details and plenty of help and advice.

REW is considerably more flexible than OmniMic BUT, even with the new USB upgrades, still requires more work to begin using in most cases.

But if you work through those issues, great product!

 

Keep in mind that USB mics and HDMI are mutually exclusive.  Setting up REW with legacy RCA connections and a USB mic is "marginally" more work than setting up OM until you consider that you need a playback device for the OM test tones and then I would say it's virtually the same.  Now getting REW and HDMI connections to work on a particular laptop...

Even at that, lets just say that your definition of "marginally" and mine differ a bit!

 

If memory serves me, you had a well chronicled dilemma getting everything setup which I believe was largely due to the HDMI portion of your setup BICBW?!  I'll concede that depending on which USB mic you get (UMIK-1 or UMM-6), there's a little more work required with the SPL calibration but having said that, with the detailed guide created by AustinJerry, there's not a lot that can go wrong using a stereo mini jack to stereo RCA cable together with a Y-adapter RCA cable.  Following the step by step instructions, you just need to confirm a couple settings in the sound control panel (using Windows OS) and a couple drop-downs in the REW preferences screen and you're good to go.  The funny part about all of this is setting up to measure is the easy part.  Figuring out what the graphs are telling you and how to improve your overall SQ is where the "fun" begins!

I should probably do a write-up on my dual SubM's but it almost seems redundant now what with nothing but praise for this subwoofer and all the other user-reviews. As other owners have iterated time and again to those who are considering buying this sub: Just do it already.

Anywho, I thought I'd post some SPL tests I did of my duals in my room. It's roughly 2700~cf^3 (sealed) and the average distance from the LP for both subs is about ~9ft (1 corner loaded, 1 mid-wall). The amps are the original 1kW in PGM 1 mode.

I stopped the sweeps at 110dB because I was seriously concerned for my room... there was some serious window flexing going on (it looked like the glass was flexing a centimeter or two) and there was wild shaking of the doors and windows outside of the room (or so I was yelled at about ;P). Otherwise, I would have kept the sweeps going but when I saw the results, I didn't really need confirmation they could play louder than that as it was already frickin' loud.



I have some nice room gain at <30Hz, so the results might look somewhat odd as every sweep seems 5dB louder than its label, but the labels are correct. I applied 1/12 octave smoothing just to make it slightly easier to read. For transparency, the subs were not EQ'd (I don't have XT or XT32 and no longer use the DCX2496).

There is only compression <20Hz on the last 110dB sweep, but that isn't indicative of the headroom these subs have >50Hz as I'm positive there wouldn't be any compression in my room until well over 125dB.

The only reason I show this graph is to pay homage to Mark for his incredible design and acumen. Allowing the SubMersive to gently roll-off like it does with no HPF (that I know of), permits room gain to do the lifting for ultra-low frequencies, which I believe was Mark's intention from the beginning. It goes without saying of course but mission accomplished!

This permits me to see what all the fuss was about with Fkn' Irene:



As you can see, the very strong 6-7Hz fundamental would be beyond reach for the vast majority of systems, but in my room, the SubMersives make it possible to truly appreciate it. It is a very cool effect to say the least.

(For the record, I played the scene -4dB from reference (but the subs are 5dB hot ).

Of course, I didn't get the SubMersives for just brute-force SPL but for their purported articulation for music. In an effort to not be verbose, I'll simply say the SubMersive is the best sub I've ever heard for music either in my room, other peoples rooms or showrooms.

Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble.

Oh... and of course: YMMV, FWIW etc etc etc.

I have a SubM HP that I have been running with a Pioneer SC-25 and an Antimode 8033. I have been very happy with the sound from this combination. Recently, I picked up an anamorphic lens and sled for my projector that requires something in the video chain to perform the vertical stretch necessary for the lens to function properly. Since I have an older JVC RS1x, the only other thing in the chain that could do the stretch is my Oppo BDP-93. Well... I found out that the Oppo can only perform the stretch on disc based video and not on streaming content (i.e., Netflix, Vudu, etc.). Apparently this is a restriction that the streaming apps place on the hardware. So I needed to add something else in the chain that can perform the stretch. I purchased an Onkyo TX-NR809 for this purpose. So my long winded question is what is the best way to incorporate the audyssey multiEQ XT and the Antimode. My old setup using MCACC does not touch the sub, so setup was straightforward... run the Antimode first then run the MCACC. Since Audyssey does the sub, when do I run the Anitmode or do I even still need the Antimode?

Hey Guys, before I "button down" my new front wall/stage, let me ask this:

I have 2 Submersive-HP in front left & right corners.

My basement floor is concrete with typical medium shag carpet.
I am placing each Submersive-HP on a slab of concrete paving stone.
They are 18" x 24" x 2.5" thick ( quite heavy ) and are placed directly on the carpet, with the subs then on top.

Question: Is it worth inserting an Aurelex Gramma platform between the sub and paving stone ?
Or best just to have the sub directly on the a solid paving stone surface ?
I can readily grab some Aurelex Grammas from my local music shop if need be.

thanks - Andy

Don't bother. The SubMersive is completely inert and therefore won't need/benefit from an isolation pad. Acoustic panels on the other hand...

I would skip the paver stone and set the subs directly on the carpet. Leave the feet on though.

Craig

+1

Thanks for the mounting tips.

I am actually picking up another pair today, so that will make 4 in house.
There is a cherry pair available locally at a fair price, and I'm rather impulsive these days as I finish off my HT re-vamping

A local friend once had 4 at his place -> he drove down to Mark last fall and loaded his van with several subs for he and a friend.
He said he didn't notice going down from 4 to 3 subs in his room, but noticed going down from 3 to 2 subs.
My room is bigger and I wouldn't mind trying a 3rd sub in a back corner, then sell off the 4th.

- Andy
Edited by Andy Lammer - 4/26/13 at 4:22pm

Hi everyone,

Is there any update on when the 230V SubM HP's will be available?

Thanks

I posted this minor update to the forum.

In a post elsewhere I provided this further detail about the HPi amplifier development:


"We have been testing the SubMersive HPi (international version) with a handful of our experienced customers overseas and domestically. In our extended testing we have found a few details to improve reliability and function before releasing both the new units for sale and the upgraded units. Explained in the e-mail was that we are bringing the sale of the new 1000W version of the SubMersive to an end and with the HPi amplifier in sight, even if that could be up to 3 months away.

We have many overseas customers who are eager to upgrade, and we want to have added confidence in the reliability before we suddenly ship more than a hundred amplifiers overseas. That confidence only really comes with some time in the field. We will only be taking e-mails to contact when available, but we won't be taking any orders on the SubMersive HPi or upgrade option until they are readily available."

Mark,

Thank you. Completely understand and appreciate you wanting to carefully test these before they go into full on production.

Everything going to plan, the SubMersive HPi will be my first sub - in fact it will be part of my first surround sound system. Looking forward to experiencing what so many have raved about for so long.

Wow, just caught up on the last several thousand posts over the past week and have learnt quite a few tips along the away around measuring the submersive and ideas around placement. I have placed an order for a MIC and look forward to giving REW a crack when setting up my new room.

I do have a couple of questions before I start, Craig John have to thank you for your insight into configuration and passing on the word according to Seaton When your using the XTZ to measure at the Listening Position, do you place the microphone on a cushion on the seat which I think you have mentioned before, or should the mic be placed at ear height?

I currently run an AS-EQ1 which provides Audyssey XT32 for the sub channels with MCACC in my current AVR, but looking to upgrade to a new pre-pro probably the 8801. Either way though I have my name on the waiting list for some new sparks for surrounds and will also be adding an extra submersive to my order, hopefully with the upcoming 240V HP amp to help smooth out the response in room... thought the first SubM was awesome, but really starting to understand how best to deliver great bass within the room.

The other measuring I am looking forward to is that my LCR are active speakers that have inbuilt PEQ capabilities so it will be interesting to see how I can use this added capability to help dial the room in and blend them well with the dual subM.

Look forward to setting it up and I will share my results once I get it up and running. In the meantime I may have a go at trying out some of the tweaks I have learnt throughout reading the thread. Keep up the great advice!

matthewa

This is what I use to hold a testing microphone, audyssey mic, or spectrophotometer. Very useful.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=233-006

Thanks Jim, I'll take a look, also noticed you have an 8801 listed in your sig, how do you find it with your SubM was it an improvement in your room when they were paired together

"...the word according to Seaton." I like that! You know, I think Mark has single-handedly added more to the knowledge-base, (or is that "knowledge-bass?" ), of these fora than any other single member, at least in terms of audio and system setup. If I have been one of the messengers of that, then I'm happy to have helped.

When I measure with XTZ, I place the soundcard on the seat cushion, and the mic, which is an extension of the soundcard, then ends up at ear level:



When I measure with the Audyssey, I use a mic boom like the one JimP linked. If you read Keith Barnes' excellent FAQ's on measureing with Audyssey and with Pro, you'll find a number of great suggestions on mic mounting and placement:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=21782993&postcount=51803
and
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1346723/the-audyssey-pro-installer-kit-thread/3030#post_22429521
as well as giomania's excellent Setup Guide:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895#post14456895

Yes, a single SubM can sound excellent, especially with a great EQ like the AS-EQ1. However, there is no substitute for multiple sources of bass to even out the room modes.

I predict that it will be very tricky to use a PEQ to dial in the speakers, especially on top of MCACC. At higher frequencies, the wavelengths become so short that the response becomes very positional. You can EQ for one spot, and the response a few inches away can be dramatically different, and it can get really screwed up based on the EQ curve you implemented for the first spot. Since our ears are a few inches apart, this can really screw up the entire response you hear. There may be some application in the mid/upper bass, but above that, I would be hesitant to do much with a PEQ.

The real application for "EQ" in the upper frequencies is to dial in a "target curve." A parametric EQ doesn't work well for dialing in a wide bandwidth target curve. MCACC does the target curve and the PEQ likely won't add a benefit on top of that. Give it a try and let us know how it works, but be careful, it's very easy to do more harm than good.

Have fun with it it. The journey can be as much fun as the destination.

Craig