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post #8071 of 9372
Ye
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes, the F2 is probably easier to accommodate - but I assume you are in the USA and your average room sizes are a lot bigger than ours in the UK, so you will probably be good to go with either the HP or the F2.  Whichever you choose, I am sure it will be the last sub you ever buy. Well, unless you want two (recommended) or even more of course! smile.gif

Yes the plan is to go with 2. smile.gif
post #8072 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

I am replacing an old svs pb12 +/2 which served me well for movies, but was lacking for music.

If you were happy with the PB12+/2 for movies, you are in for a VERY VERY pleasant surprise. I had two of PB12's and SVS versus Seaton is not even in the same ballpark. You made a wise choice.
post #8073 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

If you were happy with the PB12+/2 for movies, you are in for a VERY VERY pleasant surprise. I had two of PB12's and SVS versus Seaton is not even in the same ballpark. You made a wise choice.
Of course I am glad to hear that! I have been following this thread for at least 2 years and all of my reading has led me to this very conclusion biggrin.gif. Eventually I was having difficulty choosing between the JTR S2 and the SubM HP with the SubM HP getting the nod as I can always buy another if needed which just wasn't going to happen with the S2 because room is rather small (14' X 14') and already crowded rolleyes.gif.
post #8074 of 9372
Just picked up a red cherry Hp from Mark on Wednesday for a great price. It had a very small blemish in the finish. Which you really cant see unless you know what you are looking for. This thing is incredible. It adds so much to music and with movies its amazing. Now I have to figure out how to get a second one. smile.gifbiggrin.gif
post #8075 of 9372
I know a couple have commented on the performance of the HP and F2 being nearly identical. But has anyone ever done any measuring in an identical room?
post #8076 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I know a couple have commented on the performance of the HP and F2 being nearly identical. But has anyone ever done any measuring in an identical room?

You might find what you are looking for here http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/?forum=258206
post #8077 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I know a couple have commented on the performance of the HP and F2 being nearly identical. But has anyone ever done any measuring in an identical room?

 

Yeah - Mark Seaton ;)

 

When he says they are the "same but different", do you not believe him??

post #8078 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yeah - Mark Seaton wink.gif

When he says they are the "same but different", do you not believe him??

No I read his comments on his forums. I was just innocently curious if measurements with hp's were taken, removed then measurements with f2's.

Also I came across his comments after I had asked that question. smile.gif
post #8079 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yeah - Mark Seaton wink.gif

When he says they are the "same but different", do you not believe him??

No I read his comments on his forums. I was just innocently curious if measurements with hp's were taken, removed then measurements with f2's.

Also I came across his comments after I had asked that question. smile.gif

 

Fair enough. Sorry if I came across as being a bit snippy there. 

 

I have no direct experience of the HP vs F2 but I am reassured by Mark that they sound essentially the same and the only real difference is the form factor. Certainly, I cannot imagine ever wanting to replace my pair of F2s anyway. I knew about Submersives before I discovered the F2s and, despite lusting after them, had always ruled them out simply because the HP form factor does not fit my room very well. I was over the moon when I discovered that Mark made an alternative design that had all the sonic characteristics of the HPs but in a form factor that I could actually accommodate. 

 

I believe that, at the end of the day, anyone would be equally delighted to own either type, so it does come down purely to preference for one form factor over the other. IIRC the F2s are a little more expensive than the HPs but for me that was money well spent. I know I would have to spend way, way more for subs here in the UK and probably for subs with less capable performance. As you can guess, I am a very, very happy Submersive owner. I am not a 'fanboy' of any brand of anything -- everything I say about the F2s is objective. They really are just that good!

 

EDIT:

 

Looking at this photo of your HT in your Profile:

 

 

I hope you don't mind me saying this, and please don't take it in the wrong way, but I believe you would do far, far better for your overall sound quality if you looked into adding a few acoustic treatments before you considered adding an expensive Submersive to the mix. The single most important 'component' in any system is the room the equipment is placed in. 

 

It's very unlikely, judging from the photo, that you are getting anything like the best out of the equipment you already have and by adding some treatments you will almost certainly amaze yourself at how good your room can sound just with the gear you already own. It is OT in this thread to go into a lot of detail but there are numerous threads on AVS dedicated to acoustics and acoustic treatments. Or start by looking at Ethan Winer's Real Traps website - it is a mine of useful information on room acoustics. A decent set of treatments would cost a lot less than a new Submersive in all probability and would give you a massive uplift in SQ right away, as well as paving the way for a truly fabulous sound once you did get the Submersive installed.  Just my two cents - please take it in the spirit it is offered -- as constructive advice, not criticism. Or, of course, feel free to ignore it altogether! :)


Edited by kbarnes701 - 5/27/13 at 12:22pm
post #8080 of 9372
^^^^^. What he said!
post #8081 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Fair enough. Sorry if I came across as being a bit snippy there. 

I have no direct experience of the HP vs F2 but I am reassured by Mark that they sound essentially the same and the only real difference is the form factor. Certainly, I cannot imagine ever wanting to replace my pair of F2s anyway. I knew about Submersives before I discovered the F2s and, despite lusting after them, had always ruled them out simply because the HP form factor does not fit my room very well. I was over the moon when I discovered that Mark made an alternative design that had all the sonic characteristics of the HPs but in a form factor that I could actually accommodate. 

I believe that, at the end of the day, anyone would be equally delighted to own either type, so it does come down purely to preference for one form factor over the other. IIRC the F2s are a little more expensive than the HPs but for me that was money well spent. I know I would have to spend way, way more for subs here in the UK and probably for subs with less capable performance. As you can guess, I am a very, very happy Submersive owner. I am not a 'fanboy' of any brand of anything -- everything I say about the F2s is objective. They really are just that good!

EDIT:

Looking at this photo of your HT in your Profile:




I hope you don't mind me saying this, and please don't take it in the wrong way, but I believe you would do far, far better for your overall sound quality if you looked into adding a few acoustic treatments before you considered adding an expensive Submersive to the mix. The single most important 'component' in any system is the room the equipment is placed in. 

It's very unlikely, judging from the photo, that you are getting anything like the best out of the equipment you already have and by adding some treatments you will almost certainly amaze yourself at how good your room can sound just with the gear you already own. It is OT in this thread to go into a lot of detail but there are numerous threads on AVS dedicated to acoustics and acoustic treatments. Or start by looking at Ethan Winer's Real Traps website - it is a mine of useful information on room acoustics. A decent set of treatments would cost a lot less than a new Submersive in all probability and would give you a massive uplift in SQ right away, as well as paving the way for a truly fabulous sound once you did get the Submersive installed.  Just my two cents - please take it in the spirit it is offered -- as constructive advice, not criticism. Or, of course, feel free to ignore it altogether! smile.gif


First of all Keith I invite any advice, criticism or anything you or anyone has to say. I have seen people that get defensive and try to pose like they know what they are talking about. But I have no problem saying I am 7 months old into this hobby and that I humbly wish to learn. So from here on out in any forum I give you full permission to speak your mind in any response to my posts. smile.gif

Now, I am getting married November 30th of this year any we will be moving. And likely not buying a home for a few years. So as far as acoustical treatments it seems best to wait until I find my future sanctuary. And yes I have talked with her about my desire for dual F2's! smile.gif I do have plans for treatments but want to wait until we buy a house. I do want to have a full 11.2 with a projector in a dedicated room as my final goal someday. I plan on the equipment as follows

Dual F2 submersives ( to be honest I like the look of them better)
Denon 4520
Emotiva xpa 5
Extra speakers for additional 4 channels
Projector and screen

Btw thanks for your response and thoughts on my current setup!

Also time frame is I probably shoot for the 4520 right at the turn of the year, after the wedding and getting settled, then in March I get about a 6k cash bonus from work which I was thinking then dual F2's. that way I will also have XT 32 for them.

Funny side not about treatments is this place is one block from my work. The website looks much nicer than the building. And the products look really expensive.
http://www.acousticsciences.com/
Edited by jlpowell84 - 5/27/13 at 3:34pm
post #8082 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

First of all Keith I invite any advice, criticism or anything you or anyone has to say. I have seen people that get defensive and try to pose like they know what they are talking about. But I have no problem saying I am 7 months old into this hobby and that I humbly wish to learn. So from here on out in any forum I give you full permission to speak your mind in any response to my posts. smile.gif

Now, I am getting married November 30th of this year any we will be moving. And likely not buying a home for a few years. So as far as acoustical treatments it seems best to wait until I find my future sanctuary. And yes I have talked with her about my desire for dual F2's! smile.gif I do have plans for treatments but want to wait until we buy a house. I do want to have a full 11.2 with a projector in a dedicated room as my final goal someday. I plan on the equipment as follows

Dual F2 submersives ( to be honest I like the look of them better)
Denon 4520
Emotiva xpa 5
Extra speakers for additional 4 channels
Projector and screen

Btw thanks for your response and thoughts on my current setup!

Also time frame is I probably shoot for the 4520 right at the turn of the year, after the wedding and getting settled, then in March I get about a 6k cash bonus from work which I was thinking then dual F2's. that way I will also have XT 32 for them.

Funny side not about treatments is this place is one block from my work. The website looks much nicer than the building. And the products look really expensive.
http://www.acousticsciences.com/



Go here for a basic room kit from GIK Acoustics http://gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-room-kit-package-1/. Around 600 or so and this is the company that I ordered from. I called them and talked to a room audio engineer and told him my room size and how much I was spending and here is the result http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012. It does make a huge difference in the room and you really don't have to mount them (mounting is simple as the panel are made to be taken with you), just set them in place on the floor for now.

Bill
post #8083 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Go here for a basic room kit from GIK Acoustics http://gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-room-kit-package-1/. Around 600 or so and this is the company that I ordered from. I called them and talked to a room audio engineer and told him my room size and how much I was spending and here is the result http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012. It does make a huge difference in the room and you really don't have to mount them (mounting is simple as the panel are made to be taken with you), just set them in place on the floor for now.

Bill

Wow Bill! I had looked at your profile after you so kindly gave me the invite for a Submersives demo. From your thumbnail pic it looked like you had 1 F2. But dang, quads! I might have to just come up now. Only a 5 hr drive! Also I am amazed at how you transformed that room, especially with two rows of seating. I will give those guys a call. I will post a couple room pics. I could Easily buy 3-4 standard rectangular treatments and hang them and take em when I move.
post #8084 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Go here for a basic room kit from GIK Acoustics http://gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-room-kit-package-1/. Around 600 or so and this is the company that I ordered from. I called them and talked to a room audio engineer and told him my room size and how much I was spending and here is the result http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012. It does make a huge difference in the room and you really don't have to mount them (mounting is simple as the panel are made to be taken with you), just set them in place on the floor for now.

Bill

Wow Bill! I had looked at your profile after you so kindly gave me the invite for a Submersives demo. From your thumbnail pic it looked like you had 1 F2. But dang, quads! I might have to just come up now for a special trip! Only a 5 hr drive! Also I am amazed at how you transformed that room, especially with two rows of seating. I will give those guys a call. I will post a couple room pics. I could Easily buy 3-4 standard rectangular treatments and hang them and take em when I move.



behind the sub. got that window trim to deal with if a bass trap was there...
AppleMark



AppleMark
AppleMark

My little brother is visiting from Kona, HI. This is the open end into the dining area...
AppleMark
Edited by jlpowell84 - 5/27/13 at 8:19pm
post #8085 of 9372
so that gives three closed corners, the one is open into the dining area. And looks like about 4 standard panels i could hang. One thing to keep in mind is that my towers are Definitive Technology "Bi-polar," design. So there is a tweeter and 4.5 inch driver in the rear firing into the wall. From what I have gathered so far is that you dont want a panel directly behind them.

2 panels on the left surround side, 1 panel on the right surround side, and perhaps 1-2 on the front wall. bass traps im not sure. technically they could go to the ceiling but then wherever the new residence is could have different heights to the ceiling.

Also what do you guys think of DIY panels. I've read to use Owens and Corning 703 insulation, build a frame, some inner braces, wrap it and there ya go.

And all this of course to enhance our wonderful Seaton Submersives subwoofer experiences! To tie it back in...

Ok, spent a little time on the GIK site. Perhaps a few of the 242 acoustic panels to start out. And a couple 244 bass traps. Fairly inexpensive. I guess the only downside is not knowing what optimal future colors would be. But like I said not a lot of money at all. Besides, at least the future projector wall will need to be black so that would be the choice...also it's a bit exciting that the prices are very affordable.
Edited by jlpowell84 - 5/27/13 at 11:41pm
post #8086 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

 
First of all Keith I invite any advice, criticism or anything you or anyone has to say. I have seen people that get defensive and try to pose like they know what they are talking about. But I have no problem saying I am 7 months old into this hobby and that I humbly wish to learn. So from here on out in any forum I give you full permission to speak your mind in any response to my posts. smile.gif

Now, I am getting married November 30th of this year any we will be moving. And likely not buying a home for a few years. So as far as acoustical treatments it seems best to wait until I find my future sanctuary. And yes I have talked with her about my desire for dual F2's! smile.gif I do have plans for treatments but want to wait until we buy a house. I do want to have a full 11.2 with a projector in a dedicated room as my final goal someday. I plan on the equipment as follows

Dual F2 submersives ( to be honest I like the look of them better)
Denon 4520
Emotiva xpa 5
Extra speakers for additional 4 channels
Projector and screen

Btw thanks for your response and thoughts on my current setup!

Also time frame is I probably shoot for the 4520 right at the turn of the year, after the wedding and getting settled, then in March I get about a 6k cash bonus from work which I was thinking then dual F2's. that way I will also have XT 32 for them.

Funny side not about treatments is this place is one block from my work. The website looks much nicer than the building. And the products look really expensive.
http://www.acousticsciences.com/

 

You have a great attitude!  Thanks for being receptive to some new ideas.  Others have now chimed in, and I have read your replies, and you are on the right track. Even though your present accommodation is temporary you can still install a few treatments - they are hung more or less just like pictures and it's easy to remove them and take them with you. GIK is the place I bought mine from - they give great free advice and their panels are reasonably priced. Even cheaper is to DIY - if you buy one panel from GIK you will see how easy they are to replicate. There is no bigger bang for the buck in home audio than acoustic treatments, so good luck with them. And congrats to you and your future wife on the wedding!  Exciting times for you.

post #8087 of 9372
I am getting loud thumps when I turn on my system from the subwoofer. I never had this issue before. I have been troubling shoot grounding issues with my new 4311 since I have a hum when the system is off. I think I have concluded it is either my dimmer switch or the old CFL can lights I have. I have not had a chance to swap out the switch to see yet.

But also, as I have posted this on the Seaton forum as well, I am now getting thumping sounds when there is a storm. Again, thinking this is a ground overall issue. I am not at all versed in electrical stuff, so how would I even go about check the 'core' ground to the house to see if that is an issue or can I even do that?

This is all very frustrating since with my 7005 I never had this hum in my sub and the weather issues and the sub is relatively new as well. I have my components plugged into a Panamax 5300EX and the sub was on a surge protector bar, and then I got a single wall unit now, but still having the weather/storm sounds.

I think it was even thumping when I would take the BD on and off pause too last night. mad.gif
Edited by cdnbum88 - 5/28/13 at 8:41am
post #8088 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnbum88 View Post

I am getting loud thumps when I turn on my system from the subwoofer. I never had this issue before. I have been troubling shoot grounding issues with my new 4311 since I have a hum when the system is off. I think I have concluded it is either my dimmer switch or the old CFL can lights I have. I have not had a chance to swap out the switch to see yet.

But also, as I have posted this on the Seaton forum as well, I am now getting thumping sounds when there is a storm. Again, thinking this is a ground overall issue. I am not at all versed in electrical stuff, so how would I even go about check the 'core' ground to the house to see if that is an issue or can I even do that?

This is all very frustrating since with my 7005 I never had this hum in my sub and the weather issues and the sub is relatively new as well. I have my components plugged into a Panamax 5300EX and the sub was on a surge protector bar, and then I got a single wall unit now, but still having the weather/storm sounds.

I think it was even thumping when I would take the BD on and off pause too last night. mad.gif

I had this issue with my SMS-1 eq too. When it was off, it would give off that hum. Its stopped now, dont know how or why.
post #8089 of 9372
Without having read the thread in its entirety, is Seaton currently taking orders?
post #8090 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Without having read the thread in its entirety, is Seaton currently taking orders?

Yes , see this post on his own forum: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/Product-Listing-Availability-Status-and-Pricing-3364736

post #8091 of 9372
^Thanks. Wow, killer price. These must be worth their weight in gold if he can command that kind of premium. eek.gif
post #8092 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^Thanks. Wow, killer price. These must be worth their weight in gold if he can command that kind of premium. eek.gif

If you have read posts here & elsewhere, you would have learned that Mark's products hold their own against those costing much more.

post #8093 of 9372
I have no reason to doubt it based on the little I have read. If only money were no object. wink.gif I'm happy with my Epik Empire, but pairing it with the HP would probably come close to imitating a mini earthquake.
post #8094 of 9372
With ID subwoofer purchases, you "usually" get what you pay for. Value per dollar spent on the SubMersive is hard to beat!
post #8095 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

First of all Keith I invite any advice, criticism or anything you or anyone has to say. I have seen people that get defensive and try to pose like they know what they are talking about. But I have no problem saying I am 7 months old into this hobby and that I humbly wish to learn. So from here on out in any forum I give you full permission to speak your mind in any response to my posts. smile.gif

Now, I am getting married November 30th of this year any we will be moving. And likely not buying a home for a few years. So as far as acoustical treatments it seems best to wait until I find my future sanctuary. And yes I have talked with her about my desire for dual F2's! smile.gif I do have plans for treatments but want to wait until we buy a house. I do want to have a full 11.2 with a projector in a dedicated room as my final goal someday. I plan on the equipment as follows

Dual F2 submersives ( to be honest I like the look of them better)
Denon 4520
Emotiva xpa 5
Extra speakers for additional 4 channels
Projector and screen

Btw thanks for your response and thoughts on my current setup!

Also time frame is I probably shoot for the 4520 right at the turn of the year, after the wedding and getting settled, then in March I get about a 6k cash bonus from work which I was thinking then dual F2's. that way I will also have XT 32 for them.

Funny side not about treatments is this place is one block from my work. The website looks much nicer than the building. And the products look really expensive
http://www.acousticsciences.com/
Sorry to jump in your post. But I just bought the 4520 from AV science and I love it but looking at the new Denon X4000 it is very close to the 4520 and allot less coin. Maybe something to look into.
post #8096 of 9372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Sorry to jump in your post. But I just bought the 4520 from AV science and I love it but looking at the new Denon X4000 it is very close to the 4520 and allot less coin. Maybe something to look into.

Yes I just forgot to put that in there. Basically the 2 missing channels which I would sacrifice wides. I follow the threads on the new x series. January will give me enough time to monitor the reviews, build quality, etc. other than the 2 channels, which I would like but not a deal breaker, it has what I want. Neo X, XT 32, and I forget. We will see when the time comes. And then dual F2 Submersives March 15th! Lets start the countdown...290 days! Ughgggg...
post #8097 of 9372
Anyone in the Pacific Northwet area is welcome to contact me for a demo of Seaton's spectacular subs. I have a single Submersive in the room at the moment but will have a pair of them running by end of next week (along with a pair of SVS SB-13 Ultras). You can find more details about the room in the signature. Also, for those that are in the Washington area, don't forget to join up in the Seattle Home Theater Geeks group over on Facebook! Maybe if we can get a bunch of people interested we can get Mark out here for a GTG! I'd be happy to host.
post #8098 of 9372
^That reminds me, does anyone have a link to any recent subwoofer "shootouts" with the Seaton(s) as contenders? The last one I remember was from 2009/2010 or so (I'm outta' the loop).
post #8099 of 9372
There has been a lot of shootouts/GTG that included the SubMersive HP and some that had the SubMersive F2. You may want to check out this link:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1367811/subwoofer-shootout-subwoofer-roundup-url-lists
post #8100 of 9372
Thanks! The 2012 Kansas City result was telling, with the Submersive scoring at the top for music and in second place for movies. I'm not sure how statistically significant those closer ratings are, but I'm pleased with the performance achieved.
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