Tosh HD-A2 HD DVD - First End User Reports! - Page 176

The Tosh decodes the bitstream internally and outputs raw PCM. You should get uncompressed PCM 5.1. Not sure why you're only getting 2.0 (maybe a setting in the player or the receiver is defaulting to 2-ch mode).

What I'm not clear on is what the Tosh does for DD+ EX soundtracks (I have a few HD-DVDs that cite this). Do we get 5.1 and engage the EX processing manually in the receiver or is all the EX encoding lost?

I don't know, it's weird.

I tried switching the players' settings, and the Marantz' settings. I thought the Marantz might be at fault as it was a recertified unit from Accessories4less. That's when I grabbed the Bluray player from the TV in the 1st floor great room and hooked it up to the Marantz in the Basement. It worked beautifully. I read on another thread that if the video output on the A2 is set to 480i, as I had to do since I only have an older standard def set to use, that it would only send a downmixed 2 channel signal. Is that correct?

Man it's been a long time but I seem to recall that the two audio settings were dependent on one another. That is, in order to get the full HD audio out of hdmi, I think you had to set the optical audio to some limited output. It was like there was only so much audio processing capability and you had to take from one and give to the other. Try searching this thread and see if you can find what I'm talking about. Or, just try fiddling with the settings for the optical output and see if it affects your hdmi.

Your audio settings are correct.
The A2 decodes DB THD to LPCM and sends that to the AVR. But LPCM is a lossless format as is THD, hence the audio quality of the THD signal is completely preserved. There is no audible difference.

Your AVR should show LPCM 48KHz. This normal and is how the A2 operates.

My D2 (A2) is HDMI connected to a DVDO iScan Duo video processor. The Duo has very convenient status reports. The input status shows "Audio source: LPCM, 6x48KHz" as expected.

Thanks for the replies.

Let me reiterate: I am running the HDMI to the Marantz for audio ONLY. The TV is non-HDMI, standard def. I am running component video to the TV.

I hooked up the Bluray player the same way with no problems. DTS-HD Master engaged right away.

Has there been a firmware release for the A2 in the past 2 years?

It is my understanding that this player is incapable of bitstreaming newer audio codecs (Dolby Digital+, Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master) - no matter what settings or connections you use. I believe only the HD-XA2 (or its Onkyo clone) and the HD-A35 can bitstream these lossless audio codecs.
The manual for the A2 also seems to indicate that the video setting can further limit what it will send down the line for audio. So maybe the setting for your TV is preventing you from getting multi-channel LPCM sound via HDMI? See the audio decoding chart on page 60 in your manual - note 3 for LPCM via hdmi.

The last HD DVD firmware versions for all Toshiba players were version 4.0. As others said, your player cannot output "high resolution bitstream audio" (Dolby TrueHD or DTS-MA/DTS-HR) in any method. Over HDMI, it can output multichannel PCM if the disc has Dolby TrueHD or Dolby Digital Plus (as most HD DVDs do). To even use this, you may need to set the player's optical output to PCM.

Check the settings of your Marantz receiver, because HD DVD players were always more picky than Blu-ray players have become (with three more years of improvements). You may need to turn off any kind of "HDMI audio pass-through" option your receiver has (even though you are not using it with your TV, but that itself could be part of the problem).

Ok, thanks for all the replies!

I guess I'm at a bit of a loss when it comes to the way in which signals are processed. PCM, LPCM, Bitstream, etc., and which connection to use (HDMI or Optical, etc.) I could simply use an optical cable to send the audio to the Marantz, as I did with my old Onkyo non-HDMI receiver, and "settle" for DTS.

Again, no big deal as I only have a few HD-DVD's anyhow.

I gotta say, after listening to DTS-HD Master Audio on a bluray, I can hear a nice upgrade in sound quality compared to old DTS/DD.

You might want to look at this post.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2261

and here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2263.

It has been a long time since I bought my D2 at Costco so I perused a number of early posts on this thread. But hotdigity uses component for video and this may (or may not) affect how the player processes audio.
Anyone care to test this ?

Many of my HDDVD's have been ripped to mkv and are on a media server. With this process the video is converted to 1080/p24 and sent to my 24p capable LG 55LH90 overcoming the D2 1080/i60 limitation. Even the iScan Duo can not restore the 24p after the D2 converts to i60. Using the LG combo BR/HDDVD optical drive in the computer avoids the D2 limitation. Sadly this drive is no longer available.

Look at this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=657
and follow the link to another ea3cto.

Ok, so here's what I have gathered from this:

1) The A2 does NOT pass a bitstream signal via HDMI, only multi-channel
PCM.

2) The Marantz will not accept a multi-channel PCM signal via HDMI, only
the bitstream.

3) The A2 is trying to put its square peg into the Marantz' round hole!

To quote a line from Cool Hand Luke: "What we have here, is, a failure to communicate!"

I believe your item #1 is correct.
However, I believe your item #2 is incorrect. I pulled up the manual for your receiver - and it looks to me that it can accept and decode multi-channel lpcm (which would come across via hdmi). I believe the problem lies in the A2, which is looking at your output video resolution setting and forcing 2 channel PCM out via hdmi. It's almost like the player is deciding that if you do not have a HDTV hooked up, you can't possible be able to handle multi-channel lpcm? I am looking at Note 3 on page 60 of the HD-A2 user's manual.
Can your TV handle a progressive video signal? If yes - try setting the A2 player to output 480p - and see if multi-channel lpcm will come across then. Do not do this unless you are sure your TV can handle 480p video input.
I expect this entire problem will go away once you have a 1080p HDTV and set everything up for that.

The TV is a 20" Insignia flat screen CRT set. $150 new 3 1/2 years ago. No prog-scan. I hooked it up so I could try out the lossless surround formats with the A2 as the Bluray player was hooked up in the great room to the 58" Panny plasma. There's no audio system for that room and I am not going to hook up the good stuff there as it is a 2 story room which opens to the kitchen at one end, and has an open balcony to the 2nd story along one long wall. The plasma is wall mounted above the fireplace and is not ideal for a real surround setup. So, I grabbed the Panny BD-65 from it and hooked it up in the basement with the Marantz and, voila! DTS-HD Master played and all the right lights came on!

I will schlep the 42" Aquos over from the kids TV area in the basement and try switching the video output to 1080i and see if that works.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

Ran a test with MI3 (DB THD) on the A2 changing the video out from 480p to 480i and behold the audio changed from 6 ch LPCM to 2 ch PCM.
The A2 still connected to the Duo via HDMI.

This clearly demonstrates the dependence of the audio on the video settings in the A2.

Also agree that most AVR's in the last 5 or more years can accept and decode LPCM.

Thanks catmother! Good to know there is a solution.

I guess until I can use a hi-def or progressive scan set I will have to use the optical digital connection.

Okay. I did this, but I still cannot get a 5.1 DD signal through the optical for HD-DVDs (regular DVDs don't have this problem). Unless you set the SPDIF for PCM (which gives you 2-channel audio), you get nothing at all.

I just got my first HDTV today (after owning my HD-A2 for over three years; yeah, I know), and this is the first time I've connected it using HDMI. Can anyone provide any guidance? I am tearing my hair out over this.

Did you list what receiver you have, if so then I missed it, as I was having a 'like' issue and what it was ... the TV was down converting the HDMI audio to 2 channel and sending it back to the receiver, as I had the receiver set to allow the TV's audio input to over over ride the signal from the players.. once I changed this setting on the receiver to have the audio signal from the device (HDDVD, BluRay, DirecTV) as the priority audio signal, then I got the full 5.1 or higher signal from the HDMI source... This setting was not even listed in the manual, and I was getting ready to call the receivers warranty line for a replace when I stumbled on the setting.

avid

I have a 1998 Sony receiver whose only digital input is one optical jack. Until I discovered that my TV only sends 2-channel out via the optical for external sources (even if it's a multichannel HDMI), I was going to use it to switch the audio as well as the video. So, when I set the receiver to get a signal from the A2, that's the only digital signal it's receiving. Like I said, when I play a standard DVD on it, the 5.1 comes through just fine; it's only when I play an HD-DVD that this problem shows up. I'm gonna try the "SPDIF on Bitstream; HDMI on Downmixed PCM" combo one more time, to see if anything changes.


UPDATE: No dice. So far, with HDMI connected, I am UNABLE to get 5.1 on HD-DVDs out via the optical. Grrrr!

Since the A2 is capped at 1080i resolution,wouldn't running component for video be an option?Should eliminate any conflict re;HDMI/Optical.

I thought about that. Here's my question: If I run component instead, will my TV still de-interlace signals from the HD-A2, as it does whenever the disc is originally 1080p?

The A2 is what's doing the de-interlacing. The A2 can't do 1080p.

W. T. F.

I just swapped the HDMI connection for component, and it's doing the exact same thing: No 5.1 over the optical (except for regular DVDs!).

Something has to be wrong. Does anyone know how to check the firmware version? I tried to update it via disc, but it said it didn't need it. Before I go to the hassle of running an ethernet cable back there, I'd like to have some idea.

So, an update, and a question:

Our roommate decided to get himself a soundbar setup to save space in his room. He then gave to me his HD-capable AVR to install in the living room.

The HD-A2 is now connected solely via HDMI. At first, I thought I was having the same problem with the audio, but then I read more of the posts in this thread, and realized that the TrueHD audio is being sent via multi-channel PCM to the receiver (my first clue was discrete audio from the surrounds, something that wouldn't happen if the signal from the A2 was 2-channel).

My only question remains: For Dolby Digital signals, does the output work the same way?

The easiest way to answer your question is to pop in a standard dvd and tell us the results.

It doesn't sound like you have the user manual to your A2. You can find it here.
http://www.csd.toshiba.com/cgi-bin/t...Family=2805945

Page 53 covers the audio settings.

By the way what receiver are you using now? You didnt say what make or model.

To check the firmware version press SETUP on the remote. Then go to GENERAL, MAINTENANCE and select UPDATE. If it shows 4.0 then you have the latest firmware.

What is your output resolution set to? It needs to be HD (higher than 480p).

The receiver is an Insignia NS-R5101HD. The confusion I was having is that it doesn't display any surround-mode info when it's getting PCM, as it does via HDMI from the HD-A2. It's all good. Can't wait to fire up something with a ridiculous HD soundtrack, like 300.

Since you have switched to an HDMI-capable receiver, this is a moot point, but I will comment anyway. The reason you did not get 5.1 sound from HD DVDs is probably that the Sony receiver cannot decode DTS. The HD-A2, like all first-and second-generation players, converts Dolby Digital Plus (used on most HD DVDs, and not to be confused with Dolby Digital, seldom if ever used on HD DVDs) into DTS for the S/PDIF output. (The third-generation players converted DD+ into Dolby Digital.)

Did all first and second generation players do that? I thought it was just the A2? I didn't think the A20 did that too.

I did not know this. Thanks for the info!

Yes, all of the Toshiba players work this way. They internally decode DD+ and Dolby TrueHD into multichannel PCM, then re-encode into DTS only for the digital audio output jacks.

I have 2 HD-A2 players and both have broken flip-down panels. Can these be fixed? If so, where can I locate two flip-down panels? Thanks!