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103" Panasonic Plasma anyone? - Page 2

post #31 of 60
I have no doubt they sold all 5000. I imagine many of these will be in the lobbies and boardrooms of many corporations.

I was just in Palm Springs and I don't doubt a few of these will be in homes out there-many of which are used for just a few weeks a year...
post #32 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by twothbeave View Post

All you who are suggesting, that front/rear pj, could ever challenge the plasma for supremacy have a total failure to grasp reality. Direct view completely and totally blows away projection in every possible category, other than the glare.

Not everybody is a brightness freak. Give me this with SED technology and I'm all eyes, but plasma with mediocre contrast and huge power bills? No thanks. I want real blacks and 12ftl are more than enough for daylight scenes in my black cave. No need to shove every compression issue, bit of noise and banding down my throat with superbright images and at the same time suffer milky dark scenes.
post #33 of 60
If you have $50K to spend on a tv, you'd likely have the means to acquire a commercial 2K PJ with gobs of brightness to negate any ambient room light.
post #34 of 60
I'll take one!

I've actually been able to spend quite a bit of time with the giant Panasonic 103" plasma, as my local AV high-end store has been displaying it in a dedicated room (which until recently housed the projectors they sold) for several weeks. Both the Panasonic and the store salesmen have been great about letting me have a go at the display, putting it through paces with various material. I've watched some Blue Ray (Kingdom Of Heaven, Ice Age 2, Superman Returns, Fantastic Four), some SD DVDs, a variety of broadcast HD etc over a couple weeks. (Man it's indulgent, the thing is set up in it's own room, nice and light controlled, and often I've been able to be just alone, sitting there, drinking it in).

It is truly an awesome display! People are usually just shocked when they walk into the room and see this thing playing - even before they know what they are looking at. (Most people don't know what it is, because it's in a fairly dark room, so they first say something like "Oh My God, that looks amazing! What is it?")

And I can also see why people who are really into front projection would still prefer a projector. That is, especially if you are really into trying to re-create the projected film look, you just aren't going to do that more accurately than using essentially the same approach as projected film. So nothing feels more like "being at the theater" than a front projected image (in a big enough size).

Further, the best front projectors in really light controlled rooms will give you even deeper blacks than this plasma. Because I'm deciding between the new Panasonic 65" 1080p plasma and a front projector, my projector demoing has ratcheted up in earnest (an ongoing interest over the years, as front projection and plasma are my two favorite display technologies). I just viewed the new Sharp projector (that Greg Rogers raved about has having the highest simultaneous contrast he'd ever experienced) and it was incredible. It also had deeper black levels - evident more in "torture test" lower contrast scenes especially - than this giant Panasonic. As well, the Sharp may have been even as sharp (or sharper!) than the Panasonic in some scenes.

All that said, a plasma this size just provides a different experience. It does, effortlessly, what excite many people about upgrades on their projectors - that is provide that extra dynamics, that more life-like intensity and palpability and depth.

In comparing plasma with practically every other competing technology what I find distinguishes plasma is not only the high light output (and perfect geometry etc), and excellent ANSI contrast -- it's the "palpability" factor. The images on a good plasma have a "solidity" to them, a reach-in-and-touch-it factor, that I just don't quite get from front projection. Because front projection, even really bright front projection, still strikes me as what it is "light projected on a screen." And the blacks on front projection, no matter how dark, still look like "shadows on a screen." On projection devices (both rear and front) bright areas tend to remind me I'm seeing a screen with a bright light on it.

But the plasma light is just directly emitted. There is nothing "behind" the light to see, as it were, so the image never has a phantom-like or see-through quality. This, combined with the more life-like brightness and often convincing ANSI contrast makes plasma give more of a "window-on-reality" look, I find, with the best material.

So all that said, that is what I found the Panny 103" plasma did for images. It was the "plasma effect" but a front projection size. And that is what could make it so jaw dropping. When I saw the first scene in Ice Age 2 (Blu Ray) the camera soars slowly past glacier cliffs to find a character climbing an ice wall. The impression of going "around" solid-looking cliff walls was unlike I had ever seen from any projection device.
The whole landscape took on a more "I could walk right into" feeling, and the image in general just brought the characters and their world more alive than any projection I've seen.

Likewise with the live-action movies. Kingdom Of Heaven (Blu Ray) just looked incredible! And it wasn't an overly contrasty presentation of the image, as I see from some plasmas. The subtlety of color, shading, contrast, shadows was really amazing - very film-like. Yet the images stepped also into that solidity and realism that plasma does so well. Lots of people were coming through the room each time I viewed that movie and everyone was slack-jawed. All the projector salesmen said, as good as they thought their projectors were, nothing impressed like that huge Panasonic.

Fantastic Four (Blu Ray) was also you-are-there movie-geek nirvana. In fact, I think Panasonic had to really go to town in perfecting the processing for a plasma this large because one of the most amazing things about it is how little noise there is in the image. I mean...there was virtually NO noise in lots of the material I watched on the display - I've seen significantly more video noise on projectors, smaller plasmas and lots of RPTVs.

So yeah, I sure wouldn't kick this baby outta bed!

The only thing for me, being a black level fiend, is that the tougher-to-render low contrast or very dark scenes tend to show the shortcomings of this 1080p panel.
This first crop of 1080p plasmas (from Panasonic AND Pioneer) have apparently had to take a slight hit on black levels, because in order to achieve near the same relative brightness as the lower res models, the pixels of the 1080p models need a slightly higher "idle" charge (which keeps them from going blacker). So I could want some deeper black than I saw when I spun my torture-test BladeRunner SD DVD on the Panny.

But all in all, this display does deliver an effect that is mesmerizing, and different, from projection.

Cheers,
post #35 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

Not everybody is a brightness freak. Give me this with SED technology and I'm all eyes, but plasma with mediocre contrast and huge power bills? No thanks. I want real blacks and 12ftl are more than enough for daylight scenes in my black cave. No need to shove every compression issue, bit of noise and banding down my throat with superbright images and at the same time suffer milky dark scenes.

You know what? Somehow I have this feeling that the people buying this aren't going to be sitting around worrying about contrast and compression artifacts. For God's sake, this is a super cool toy/display for people who have a LOT of money and want what this display will provide in spades...a HUGE BRIGHT thin ultra high-end TV. Nothing more, nothing less. Obsessed videophiles are not the target for this car any more than race car drivers are the target market for Rolls Royces !
post #36 of 60
Stop making sense Q*3. It's not very becoming of you.
post #37 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

You know what? Somehow I have this feeling that the people buying this aren't going to be sitting around worrying about contrast and compression artifacts. For God's sake, this is a super cool toy/display for people who have a LOT of money and want what this display will provide in spades...a HUGE BRIGHT thin ultra high-end TV. Nothing more, nothing less. Obsessed videophiles are not the target for this car any more than race car drivers are the target market for Rolls Royces !

Very true.

But at the same time, it's an absolutely killer display, enough to amaze even many of us "videophiles"!
post #38 of 60
of course in 5 years (or probably less), you'll be able to get this for <$5000

this begs this question, when our kids grow up, what will the "standard" size tele be then? an entire wall?
post #39 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsurgeon View Post

of course in 5 years (or probably less), you'll be able to get this for <$5000

I'll assume you are exaggerating with tongue planted firmly in cheek.
post #40 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

You know what? Somehow I have this feeling that the people buying this aren't going to be sitting around worrying about contrast and compression artifacts. For God's sake, this is a super cool toy/display for people who have a LOT of money and want what this display will provide in spades...a HUGE BRIGHT thin ultra high-end TV. Nothing more, nothing less. Obsessed videophiles are not the target for this car any more than race car drivers are the target market for Rolls Royces !

Yeah, but the claim was it blows away any front projector and this is not so if you are interested in certain image qualtity aspects where some front projectors are clearly better than this plasma. Now, if this is available with CRT blacks, motion response, color resolution (no banding etc.) and plasma brightness (-> SED) then we have something that arguably is superior to any front projector in all ways except absolute image size and maybe ANSI contrast. Now THAT would make my day. Maybe it will happen in 2009 or so.
post #41 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

Yeah, but the claim was it blows away any front projector and this is not so if you are interested in certain image qualtity aspects where some front projectors are clearly better than this plasma. Now, if this is available with CRT blacks, motion response, color resolution (no banding etc.) and plasma brightness (-> SED) then we have something that arguably is superior to any front projector in all ways except absolute image size and maybe ANSI contrast. Now THAT would make my day. Maybe it will happen in 2009 or so.


Hi

I have not seen the Panasonic 103 but it is quite possible that it could better most FP in many aeas. I have heard a lot about CRT black and film-like... Film as I have seen them countless of time are not CRT black and let us see film for what it is: A medium with certain flaws. That the flaws are often used for artistic purposes should not deter from what they truly are. I used to be a professional photographer in college, then as of now film grain was a problem. I moved from 35 mm to medium format (6 x6) then to 4 x5 for this reason ... 4 x 5 was far from portable or economical ... and 35 mm film did get better but...

I have found Plasma motion response to be really good. Blacks are not so great but are improving, color accuracy is often very good on, brightness uniformity a given, let us not talk about brightness or the reproduction of bright scenes where I sincerely believe plasmas surpass almost everything else. I am not a video expert, by the way but the new plasmas especially the Pioneer Elite PRO FHD1 are extremely good display devices and can give FP a run for the money... They belong in the best HTs. I have not seen the new Fujitsu but my own 50 inch tells me that it could be something special.
post #42 of 60
To illustrate my previous point about how they will have no trouble selling these monsters...

http://www.infocomm.org/cps/rde/xchg...sl/51_2607.htm
post #43 of 60
Quote:
I'll assume you are exaggerating with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

not at all. care to make a wager?

as a general rule of thumb, I believe these consumer video products, due to rapidly evolving technology, and a hypercompetitve market, result in 50% reductions in cost about every year. That means, conservatively, 5-6 years to hit the $5000 price point.

The 70" xbr2 sony RPT fell from $7000 on introduction to around $4500 street in 6 months...

The 50" Panny plasma i bought (on super sale) at CC for $3200, is now available at $1800 (some 6 months later), on line.

so a 100" 1080P plasma, in 5 years, will be old technology (who knows what is in the pipeline), will not be cutting edge, will not be high resolution (probably 2K or 4K will be the top o' the heap), and will be facing massive price pressure.

I believe easily within 5 years, the 50 inch tv will be the entry level size. The 100" TV will be the most popular size overall.

After that, you might start to run into problems with the average size of the average room in the U.S.
post #44 of 60
These pannies where a dime a dozen on the showfloor, most of them were being used in portrait mode with lifesize humans being displayed, quite good.
post #45 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsurgeon View Post

...will not be high resolution (probably 2K or 4K will be the top o' the heap)...

Unless HDTV standards are amended, 1920x1080 is top dog for the next
decade or two. Higher resolutions just don't make sense in the mainstream
consumer market.

The next Mt. Everest to be conquered is 12 and 16 bits per color. Future
models will have 36 and 48bpp color spaces instead of the current 24bpp.
This is an improvement that all HT consumers can appreciate, even with a
"mere" 50-inch screen. Theoretically, HDMI 1.3 has enough bandwidth and I
expect large displays will eventually support 48bpp. But nobody knows which
display technology will triumph.

Anyway, you'll see prices plummet for the current 1080p displays after the
color-space-race becomes the new frontier.
post #46 of 60
LG also has a 102" plasma, but then you wouldn't have the largest.

Cineramax, did you see the Sharp 108" LCD? I thought it looked terrible. Lots of video noise, and misconvergence(?!) on the red in the upper left corner. Good from far, far from good.
post #47 of 60
Yeah it was pretty bad, reminiscent of an old in flight crt projection in the washed out department.
post #48 of 60
anyone seen the Sony xbr3 80" LCD? what did the image look like?
post #49 of 60
That would be 82", I missed it.
post #50 of 60
hmm....one day the SonyStyle website lists an 80" LCD XBR3,
now the SonyStyle website lists the XBR3 as 70" LCD (same price, at $32,999)

Sonystyle website

anyone seen this beast?

Quote:
That would be 82", I missed it.

you surely post a lot, but I'm not sure how this adds to the general knowledge base.....
post #51 of 60
If anyone's interested in checking out the Panasonic 103's in the Los Angeles area, there will be a few being used in the Robert Wilson video portrait exhibition at Ace Gallery opening this Friday.
post #52 of 60
103" arrieved on Brazil (@ São Paulo) this month, they're selling 103" for a really really cheap price, "just" USD$ 150k bucks.

AFAIK, Panasonic's has only sold 18 units of 103" models until date around the world (source: a Panasonic's executive here on show room).

Gradius
post #53 of 60
that number is very incorrect.

THey have sold at least a hundred. 50 to a sports stadium install. a rental company in the US called VER has bought some, and there are some others installed around.

THey looked really nice at infocomm last week
post #54 of 60
4.5 year bump on this thread......
(did a search, and this was/is the most relevant thread to post into)

Paulsons in Farmington Hills, MI, 12 mile/Halstead, saw this during lunch today, Friday Jan 20, 2012.
Had a $50k MSRP sticker on it, salesman told me they have sold a total of 3 since starting to carrying them a few months back.
I wonder which AVS members bought them.


I remember seeing this at CES back in the day..........
Can't do 3D , so maybe they'll have a fire sale for $40k or less??

Subjectively, I perfer the newer tech flat panel displays to this....400lb beast
post #55 of 60
I've seen them at BJ's Brewhouse restaurant.

mark
post #56 of 60
There's a 3D version, and there has been one for quite some time. Beyond the old special demo unit based on what G9/10 technology.

Overhere Panasonic kept the older 2D version of the 103" on the price list at a lower pricepoint, €35K vs €50K (List from last spring).

I have a picture like that, but not with that small one, but the nicer sized TH-152UX1;-).

We're waiting for the VX300 series (currently only in 65"), to see a price drop in the current series. The 152.5" is build to order, so don't expect much discount on that one, when the new ones finally arrive. The 85" and 103" are stock items at distributors though...
post #57 of 60
Well since this thread was bumped...

The AV store that I mentioned (now years ago) in this thread still has it's original Panny 103" plasma. Except now it's not in a dedicated room, but in one of their flat panel rooms. It's now discounted to (if I remember) about $50,000, from it's original $80,000.

The most pathetic thing is that, unlike in the past, they often have terrible HD feeds going to this thing. The past few times I've been in it looks like the same soccer channel has been playing, and it is so bad, so low resolution and so blocky, I'm almost sure it's an SD signal. Utterly and totally worthless on this screen. Why they even bother putting such a signal on a massively expensive screen they are still trying to sell is beyond me.

But then, many such things leave me baffled whenever I enter these stores.
post #58 of 60
I'm pretty sure that MSRP was reduced by Panasonic to 50k. The 85" retails for 30k, the 103" for 50k , and the 150" for 500k. Funny jump, isn't it?

Dan
post #59 of 60
Well, it's ~5 years later, so I want to know where to find this 103" beast for $5k??
post #60 of 60
OLED should eventually be cheaper than building plasma TVs,...right? Certainly a 103" OLED should be far lighter.
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