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Official Craigsub rankings thread - Page 2  

post #31 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Actually, if 8 months seems like 2 years, time is moving SLOW for me. At 46, I'll TAKE IT ...

It really does seem like "forever ago" ... glad you recovered.


DAMN....don't worry I'll do the lifting!!!!!!!!!!!LOL
post #32 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

DAMN....don't worry I'll do the lifting!!!!!!!!!!!LOL

I carried both 113's, the 112, and the DD-18 in by myself. I just SOUND old ..
post #33 of 6764
I'm callin up Barry and gettin the Cream or the Clear tomorrow. Can't have you carrying those beasts and out doing me!

LOL
post #34 of 6764
Craig,

Where do the SVS Cylinder line of Sub's fall in on this chart?

Since, according to SVS (at least what I was told by them) they are equals to to specific Boxed named sub, would the SVS PC-Ultra fall in with the SVS PB12-Ultra.
I was told by SVS that they are basically equals, just different in their packaging.
Box vs Cylinder.

Thanks...
post #35 of 6764
Well, I see other people requesting you to rank other subs on your chart, so I'll throw another request out to you, Craig:
Axiom EP600
That was tops on my shopping list before the VTF-3 HO came out. I'm getting the feeling that the HO will outperform this $1780 sub, especially with Turbo... And if they are evenly matched, the price difference will help me decide
Thanks!
post #36 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

I carried both 113's, the 112, and the DD-18 in by myself. I just SOUND old ..

And they were stacked on top of each other

I'm getting the MBM-12 tomorrow to go with my 3HO w/Turbo, I guess we could call it the MBM-3HO Turbo
I've had the 3HO Turbo in my system for a couple of weeks. I've been very impressed with it's depth and musical presentation (and that's coming from the
Fathom f113 and prior to that the PB12-NSD). I sold the f113 to a local friend who wanted a second f113 and picked up the HO3 as a stop gap until the Gotham G213 becomes available. Let's just say I'm not in a big hurry anymore for the Gotham. And now here comes the MBM-12
Anyway 3HO is placed in a front corner (about 14 feet from main listening postion) and the MBM will be placed under a desk that's along side the main listening postion (nearfield).
The local f113 friend will be coming by tomorrow to help evaluate the effects of adding the MBM-12. Should be interesting

dc
post #37 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbondioli View Post

Well, I see other people requesting you to rank other subs on your chart, so I'll throw another request out to you, Craig:
Axiom EP600
That was tops on my shopping list before the VTF-3 HO came out. I'm getting the feeling that the HO will outperform this $1780 sub, especially with Turbo... And if they are evenly matched, the price difference will help me decide
Thanks!

The Axiom EP-600 was slightly ahead of the Ultra, and the EP-500, of course. Based on the experience with the subs that are still here, a non Turbo VTF-3 HO and an EP-600 would both score a 92 on this scale.
post #38 of 6764
You all have cursed me. Within the past 2 months I have bought two PB12 Plus/2 s. They make me grin from ear to ear.

However, I did not need to see this thread. Please go away and leave me alone.
post #39 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwingding View Post

You all have cursed me. Within the past 2 months I have bought two PB12 Plus/2 s. They make me grin from ear to ear.

However, I did not need to see this thread. Please go away and leave me alone.

They are excellent subwoofers. All that DOES matter is they are making you grin ear to ear.
post #40 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwingding View Post

You all have cursed me. Within the past 2 months I have bought two PB12 Plus/2 s. They make me grin from ear to ear.

However, I did not need to see this thread. Please go away and leave me alone.

Well I didn't spend nearly as much as you did, but I too Recent purchased an SVS pb-12 and after reading this thread and the conversation that is happening in the 25-30 vs 20-39pci thread I'm seriously doubting if I made the right purchase.

Original plan was to get a PB-12 now and down the road get another one.

NOW I'm wondering I should have just spent all the money now and got 1 giant PB-12/2 PLUS , or just got 1 20-39PCI PLUS now and another later.

OR went with HSU or something else because those rankings are impressive and others thoughts and opinions are very strong and convincing!

LOL.....Damn I love this forum!
post #41 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

I carried both 113's, the 112, and the DD-18 in by myself. I just SOUND old ..

boewlsh!t old man.....you ARE old! ....and didn't you tell me you payed Jose to carry them subs in the house? oh wait...or was it Juan? Jesus maybe?



post #42 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

boewlsh!t old man.....you ARE old! ....and didn't you tell me you payed Jose to carry them subs in the house? oh wait...or was it Juan? Jesus maybe?




This is my new PR man.
post #43 of 6764
The reviewer spent a lot of time explaining how the scaling works, that +/- 3 points is statistically insignificant, etc. but there is no explanation of the most important calculation: how the number of points were derived. Was it by another formula based on specs or maybe independent measurements, or just a number arbitrarily assigned by the reviewer?
post #44 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by jz4h3m View Post

spent a lot of time explaining how the scaling works, that +/- 3 points is statistically insignificant, etc. but there is no explanation of the most important calculation: how the number of points were derived. Was it by another formula based on specs or maybe independent measurements, or just a number arbitrarily assigned by the reviewer?

This was explained on AV123 ... but since the final info was moved here, the following performance parameters were used ... and it is a combination of objective data and blind listening sessions ...

1. Frequency response / linearity
2. Clean SPL delivering ability at frequencies starting at 16 Hz up to 80 Hz
3. Performance on music
4. Performance with movies

I currently have about 450 hours logged into this shootout, and have pages upon pages of notes.

Here is a slice of objective data which went towards the numbers as assigned: The ability of the various subs to deliver high SPL on difficult scenes. To keep this simple, let's look at the VTF-3 HO vs. the SVS PB12-Plus/2 on the lightning scene from WOTW.

PB12-Plus/2:



VTF-3 HO With Turbo



VTF-3 HO W/O Turbo

post #45 of 6764
Looking at the above graphs, it is pretty clear that The HO equipped VTF-3 HO is a much more powerful performer below 20 Hz than the non Turbo or the SVS. In real world testing, it delivers on what is shown in the graphs.

The differences between the Non-Turbo HO and the SVS are more in the subjective: Under blind conditions, the VTF-3 HO handles bass transients better than does the SVS. You feel explosions in a more visceral way with the Hsu. A stand up bass sounds more natural.

Questions are appreciated ...
post #46 of 6764
My PB12/plus/2 performs better than that.
post #47 of 6764
I am seriously thinking of getting the DTS-20.
post #48 of 6764
Hi craigsub, what am I missing, where does PB10-ISD stack up in this list ?
post #49 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

My PB12/plus/2 performs better than that.

Can you expand on this ? The graph, as shown, reflects the subwoofer's response taken at the listening position in a 4500 ^ 3 foot room. The lightning scene was reproduced (by each subwoofer) at increasingly higher levels of SPL, until it started to overload.

Is your Plus/2 capable of exceeding the performance we got here from ours ?
post #50 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse99 View Post

Hi craigsub, what am I missing, where does PB10-ISD stack up in this list ?

The PB10 has not been part of this test, as it was replaced by the NSD version.
post #51 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

The PB10 has not been part of this test, as it was replaced by the NSD version.

IIRC the new NSD is identical (performance wise) with the older ISD version.
post #52 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Mayer View Post

IIRC the new NSD is identical (performance wise) with the older ISD version.

Richard, you are correct as far as that statement being made. However, the only fair way to test the PB10 is with the newest driver, IMO.

For $430, it is absolutely one of the best buys currently on the market.
post #53 of 6764
Any idea if and when Mark Seaton's BMF might be included in the ranking?
post #54 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

This is my new PR man.

LOL!

Craig are you trying to put together a library of subs that can be compared back and forth based on your testing?
post #55 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Any idea if and when Mark Seaton's BMF might be included in the ranking?

There are plans to have Craig play with a SubMersive and then a BMF over the next few months. I expect both to compare rather well in the mix.
post #56 of 6764
I just can't see the svs overloading at 94 db's, not with 2 -12 inch drivers and a 900 watt amp. Mine hits 117 db's without sweating but the room is much smaller, about half. They are measured outside by svs to hit much higher levels than you reached. It just does not make sense unless something is wrong. The HSU has a 500 watt amp with one 12 inch driver. Now when you tell me the jl audio can play louder and tighter then the SVS lets see, 13 inch driver(sealed) with a 2500 watt amp, no we are talking. I know these are your measurements but something does not add up. Have you ever tested the DTS-20?
post #57 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Any idea if and when Mark Seaton's BMF might be included in the ranking?

We are waiting on the following subwoofers ...

AV123 MFW-15 and BMF, Mark Seaton's SUBmersive and at least one more from a company who contacted me in November, but wishes to remain anonymous for now. We are a;so expecting an upgrade kit for the AV123 UFW-12.

Unfortunately, I have no exact information as to when any of these subs will arrive.
post #58 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I just can't see the svs overloading at 94 db's, not with 2 -12 inch drivers and a 900 watt amp. Mine hits 117 db's without sweating but the room is much smaller, about half. They are measured outside by svs to hit much higher levels than you reached. It just does not make sense unless something is wrong. The HSU has a 500 watt amp with one 12 inch driver. Now when you tell me the jl audio can play louder and tighter then the SVS lets see, 13 inch driver(sealed) with a 2500 watt amp, no we are talking. I know these are your measurements but something does not add up. Have you ever tested the DTS-20?

You are looking at the wrong number. The 94 dB is the total SPL being delivered when I stopped the test. In other words, ignore that number.

This test was done in a "peak hold" setting. Look at the graph again, and you will see the Plus/2 delivering 111 dB just at the 22 Hz area alone.

Also, if you are using a Radioshack Meter, keep in mind it is showing you the total SPL at every frequency combined. This graph shows SPL at each different frequency.

We have not had the honor of checking out the DTS-20...

post #59 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

We are waiting on the following subwoofers ...

AV123 MFW-15 and BMF, Mark Seaton's SUBmersive and at least one more from a company who contacted me in November, but wishes to remain anonymous for now. We are a;so expecting an upgrade kit for the AV123 UFW-12.

Unfortunately, I have no exact information as to when any of these subs will arrive.

Craig,

You are going to be a very busy person over the next several months.

I, as well as many others, look forward to hearing about your results.

-J
post #60 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

We are waiting on the following subwoofers ...

AV123 MFW-15 and BMF, Mark Seaton's SUBmersive and at least one more from a company who contacted me in November, but wishes to remain anonymous for now. We are a;so expecting an upgrade kit for the AV123 UFW-12.

Unfortunately, I have no exact information as to when any of these subs will arrive.

Looking forward to it.
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