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Official Craigsub rankings thread - Page 146  

post #4351 of 6764
11/28/07 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by txmatt View Post

I stumbled on this very imformative thread and wanted to thank everyone for their input and especially Craig for his efforts. Seeing the size of some of these beasts and that some folks have multiples of them, size is obviously not a big consideration for some. The WAF has been mentioned and size obviously plays a large part in that. As such, I took the list and looked up dimensions specs and calculated displacement. Note these volumes are not the internal enclosure volumes but the external volumes, most including feet and grills, for comparing the sub sizes...

Elemental Designs A7-900: 19.54ft^3
Epik Conquest: 13.75ft^3
SVS PB13-Ultra: 7.05ft^3
Creative Sounds Dual SDX-15 driver + Behringer EP-2500 Amp + Behringer DEQ2496 ($1630 ID): unknown
JL Audio Fathom 113: 3.63ft^3
Velodyne DD-18: 5.44ft^3
Def Tech Trinity: 5.95ft^3
ACI Maestro: 5.81ft^3 (amp not included)
eD A5-350: 6.83ft^3
JL Audio Fathom 112: 2.86ft^3

It's obvious that the $ for some of the JL products buys you this caliber performance in 1/2 - 1/4 the volume of the other subs listed. Almost shocking how small the F113 is compared to the top 3 subs. I thought the SVS PB-13 Ultra was a bit smaller than the eD A5-350 but the opposite is true... tossup for the most part. There's been some PB13-Ultra vs Conquest discussion and it's amazing that for the $ and size that this is even a comparison.

Just thought this might give some insight into sizes for those of us that size plays a major factor in a sub purchase. It's looking like for a combination of performance, size, price, and aesthetics, I'm leaning towards the SVS PB13-Ultra.

Matt

Great consolidation of info. I used to think SVS was in the big herd, but some of these subs really are not practical in most households.

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post #4352 of 6764
11/28/07 at 1:20pm
Quote:


craig isn't the first person to notice that it sounds better on its side. I noticed the same thing and so have at least 1 other owner who ended up placing it on its side permanently i believe.

I thought I would chime in about this. The Conquest was originally designed to be laid on its "side". Or more accurately, it was supposed to be wider than it is tall. It puts the driver and ports both the same distance from the floor.

The problem is that everybody who saw the initial version said "That's too wide", and we decided to show it as an upright subwoofer. The footprint is much smaller when it stands up. But once people get it into their home, setting it on its side never seems to be a big deal. In most cases it looks smaller in the room this way because of the reduction in height.

All of our subwoofers can be run this way, either standing up or on their "side". That is why they are all forward firing. We have had several customers who were able to fit Castle's and Tower's into cabinets by laying them on their side. It gives the end user some extra flexibility.
post #4353 of 6764
11/28/07 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Kuypers View Post

I thought I would chime in about this. The Conquest was originally designed to be laid on its "side". Or more accurately, it was supposed to be wider than it is tall. It puts the driver and ports both the same distance from the floor.

The problem is that everybody who saw the initial version said "That's too wide", and we decided to show it as an upright subwoofer. The footprint is much smaller when it stands up. But once people get it into their home, setting it on its side never seems to be a big deal. In most cases it looks smaller in the room this way because of the reduction in height.

All of our subwoofers can be run this way, either standing up or on their "side". That is why they are all forward firing. We have had several customers who were able to fit Castle's and Tower's into cabinets by laying them on their side. It gives the end user some extra flexibility.

Chad, Chime in more often. It's good to have you here.

I think the Conquest looks cool on its side. But you make a good point, the shape of the Conquest does give it flexibility.

And my wife is getting used to it, too ...
post #4354 of 6764
11/28/07 at 1:47pm
Hello,

I think the Conquest looks great on its side also. The grill has the same appearance on both ends and no emblem to look at sideways.


rmlowz
post #4355 of 6764
11/28/07 at 5:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by txmatt View Post

I stumbled on this very imformative thread and wanted to thank everyone for their input and especially Craig for his efforts. Seeing the size of some of these beasts and that some folks have multiples of them, size is obviously not a big consideration for some. The WAF has been mentioned and size obviously plays a large part in that. As such, I took the list and looked up dimensions specs and calculated displacement. Note these volumes are not the internal enclosure volumes but the external volumes, most including feet and grills, for comparing the sub sizes...

Elemental Designs A7-900: 19.54ft^3
Epik Conquest: 13.75ft^3
SVS PB13-Ultra: 7.05ft^3
Creative Sounds Dual SDX-15 driver + Behringer EP-2500 Amp + Behringer DEQ2496 ($1630 ID): unknown
JL Audio Fathom 113: 3.63ft^3
Velodyne DD-18: 5.44ft^3
Def Tech Trinity: 5.95ft^3
ACI Maestro: 5.81ft^3 (amp not included)
eD A5-350: 6.83ft^3
JL Audio Fathom 112: 2.86ft^3

It's obvious that the $ for some of the JL products buys you this caliber performance in 1/2 - 1/4 the volume of the other subs listed. Almost shocking how small the F113 is compared to the top 3 subs. I thought the SVS PB-13 Ultra was a bit smaller than the eD A5-350 but the opposite is true... tossup for the most part. There's been some PB13-Ultra vs Conquest discussion and it's amazing that for the $ and size that this is even a comparison.

Just thought this might give some insight into sizes for those of us that size plays a major factor in a sub purchase. It's looking like for a combination of performance, size, price, and aesthetics, I'm leaning towards the SVS PB13-Ultra.

Matt

The statement in bold above has more to do with the JL subs being sealed than it has to do with anything else. A sealed sub requires less volume, but a lot more power to get the same result.
post #4356 of 6764
11/28/07 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

The statement in bold above has more to do with the JL subs being sealed than it has to do with anything else. A sealed sub requires less volume, but a lot more power to get the same result.

True, and the woofer needs to be able to handle the power and deliver the excursion at low frequencies without the help of a port. Not a trivial matter (or there would be dozens of similar performing small subwoofers).

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.
post #4357 of 6764
11/28/07 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

The statement in bold above has more to do with the JL subs being sealed than it has to do with anything else. A sealed sub requires less volume, but a lot more power to get the same result.

small size, deep bass, low cost: pick any two
post #4358 of 6764
11/28/07 at 7:50pm
Can anyone offer an opinion as to approximately where a Paradigm Servo 15(v1) might rate on the Craigsub list?
post #4359 of 6764
11/28/07 at 7:50pm
A quick question for Craigsub,

i have a BIC 100 & wanted to upgrade to the HSU VTF2 MK3 non turbo. I see the hsu gets a total pf 86 & the BIC gets 78. However, they both got 40 points in the home theatre portion of the test.

So, are they the same sound/quality/loudness etc. for home theatre? Should I upgrade or not?

thanks. Sorry if the anwer is already in this thread (but,the thread is so long now & I was too lazy to read it all)
post #4360 of 6764
11/28/07 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith_JL View Post

True, and the woofer needs to be able to handle the power and deliver the excursion at low frequencies without the help of a port. Not a trivial matter (or there would be dozens of similar performing small subwoofers).

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

Yeah, the 12W7 is an achievment in and of itself. Now, the 13W7 is even more impressive. If I could afford the Fathom113 it would easily be a " no-brainer for me. Until then, I have to find something that is within my budget. Keep up the good work.
post #4361 of 6764
11/28/07 at 10:19pm
This thread just gets better and better. I had made up my mind on what I wanted for my budget (hsu VTF markIII), left the thread for a month and now all these "new" options. The conquest looks just ridiculously good but i can't wait to see how the less expensive options would hold up (valor or castle). I think the conquest would wake my kids 2 floors up.

on a side note, and quite possibly a stupid question, but has there ever been any interest in rating some of the more well known brands to the average off the street consumer? I know you do this for fun and so i certainly have appreciated all you have done. but some of us non-audiophiles wonder how these compare to lay person popular brands like polks etc... I read everywhere how they are not generally good subs, but more objective in terms of rating specific things would be nice to "prove it".
post #4362 of 6764
11/29/07 at 5:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith_JL View Post

True, and the woofer needs to be able to handle the power and deliver the excursion at low frequencies without the help of a port. Not a trivial matter (or there would be dozens of similar performing small subwoofers).

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

I agree with you 100%. When looking at near equal performing subwoofers, the sealed versions are always going to be smaller and have larger amps. It is a different method to get to the same result. I like sealed subs. I currently use a sealed sub in my system. By the way I would love to own the 113.
post #4363 of 6764
11/29/07 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiceblrc View Post

I see the hsu gets a total pf 86 & the BIC gets 78. However, they both got 40 points in the home theatre portion of the test.

So, are they the same sound/quality/loudness etc. for home theatre? Should I upgrade or not?

I was wondering this as well.
post #4364 of 6764
11/29/07 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by txmatt View Post

I stumbled on this very imformative thread and wanted to thank everyone for their input and especially Craig for his efforts. Seeing the size of some of these beasts and that some folks have multiples of them, size is obviously not a big consideration for some. The WAF has been mentioned and size obviously plays a large part in that. As such, I took the list and looked up dimensions specs and calculated displacement. Note these volumes are not the internal enclosure volumes but the external volumes, most including feet and grills, for comparing the sub sizes...

Elemental Designs A7-900: 19.54ft^3
Epik Conquest: 13.75ft^3
SVS PB13-Ultra: 7.05ft^3
Creative Sounds Dual SDX-15 driver + Behringer EP-2500 Amp + Behringer DEQ2496 ($1630 ID): unknown
JL Audio Fathom 113: 3.63ft^3
Velodyne DD-18: 5.44ft^3
Def Tech Trinity: 5.95ft^3
ACI Maestro: 5.81ft^3 (amp not included)
eD A5-350: 6.83ft^3
JL Audio Fathom 112: 2.86ft^3

It's obvious that the $ for some of the JL products buys you this caliber performance in 1/2 - 1/4 the volume of the other subs listed. Almost shocking how small the F113 is compared to the top 3 subs. I thought the SVS PB-13 Ultra was a bit smaller than the eD A5-350 but the opposite is true... tossup for the most part. There's been some PB13-Ultra vs Conquest discussion and it's amazing that for the $ and size that this is even a comparison.

Just thought this might give some insight into sizes for those of us that size plays a major factor in a sub purchase. It's looking like for a combination of performance, size, price, and aesthetics, I'm leaning towards the SVS PB13-Ultra.

Matt

Some are going to get offended, but it is what it is. This list are for "men" who are afraid of their "mothers".

I can't stand it.
post #4365 of 6764
11/29/07 at 8:08am
The BIC and Hsu are both comparable in regards to "home theater rumble", but the Hsu is well ahead of the BIC in terms of articulation and slam.

Keep in mind, much of the home theater experience IS music ... so music performance should weigh heavily in one's decision, which is why the X-sub and BIC H-100 make for such an interesting pair of options.
post #4366 of 6764
11/29/07 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmlowz View Post

Hello,

I think the Conquest looks great on its side also. The grill has the same appearance on both ends and no emblem to look at sideways.


rmlowz

Do you still have the Danley? Would you mind comparing and contrasting it with the Conquest if you do(in a seperate thread of course)? I think that this would be a great comparo and a lot of people would be interested. I know I would.
post #4367 of 6764
11/29/07 at 8:35am
The comparison between the Conquest and the Danley is more than welcome here ... this thread is about subwoofers ... heck, I did not even open this thread, so it definitely is not mine.

Rich is very experienced amd knows his subwoofer stuff, and his assessment on the Danley is more than welcome.
post #4368 of 6764
11/29/07 at 9:02am
i would be interested in comparisons of the ed and epik lines. actual or opions, as these seem to be the more reasonably price options for some of us mere mortals(family man).
post #4369 of 6764
11/29/07 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by warlord260 View Post

i would be interested in comparisons of the ed and epik lines. actual or opions, as these seem to be the more reasonably price options for some of us mere mortals(family man).

In the ~$600 range, I have an A5-350 and an Epik Knight on order. Both should be here by Christmas. I'll be sure to let you know what I find.
post #4370 of 6764
11/29/07 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Do you still have the Danley? Would you mind comparing and contrasting it with the Conquest

what he said
post #4371 of 6764
11/29/07 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfromcanada View Post

what he said

What he quoted...
post #4372 of 6764
11/29/07 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Keep in mind, much of the home theater experience IS music ... so music performance should weigh heavily in one's decision

Good point, I was watching Fast and the Furious, Tokyo Drift a few days ago and was surprised how much music it had in it that hit very hard and sounded beautiful of my dual HO's.

Before coming to AVS, I never realized how much music articulation helps a sub when it come to HT use.
post #4373 of 6764
11/29/07 at 10:45am
Regarding sound tracks, I watched the first Resident Evil. IMO that soundtrack is a great work out for a sub and a system. Truthfully, I think the sound track sounds better then the effects.
post #4374 of 6764
11/29/07 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

Good point, I was watching Fast and the Furious, Tokyo Drift a few days ago and was surprised how much music it had in it that hit very hard and sounded beautiful of my dual HO's.

Before coming to AVS, I never realized how much music articulation helps a sub when it come to HT use.

there is a cool song in the credits too
post #4375 of 6764
11/29/07 at 11:37am
RE's soundtrack makes the movie worth watching...Marco Beltrami (sp or name = maybe close) I believe. One of his best.
post #4376 of 6764
11/29/07 at 11:51am
Craig,
I was blown away by the fact that you rated the ED A5-350 so highly. It appears we have a new performance/price champion! At its ranking, it is surrounded by Subs 4 times its price. Even dropping a few points to the HSU big guns, the ED is lower in price.
I bought an HSU VTF2mkIII based on the reviews here back in April. I am very happy with it, but am wondering how much better the ED is for only $100 more? 10 points difference on HT is huge. Have you ever side-by-side compared the 2? Is it worth the upgrade- I do 75% HT. Anyone in the D/FW area have an ED A5-350 & want to compare to my HSU? Have van will travel.
post #4377 of 6764
11/29/07 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Tatnall View Post

In the ~$600 range, I have an A5-350 and an Epik Knight on order. Both should be here by Christmas. I'll be sure to let you know what I find.

please do. those are the 2 that i would like compared. same price except shipping, but 2-5 days lead time vs. 30 days,it would be a no brainer. congats on your soon to be rocking x-mas. i also can hardly wait. thx
post #4378 of 6764
11/29/07 at 1:02pm
Hello forum friends,

Quote: Rich is very experienced and knows his subwoofer stuff, and his assessment on the Danley is more than welcome.

Thanks for the compliment Craig, but my learning curve is nowhere near yours. I have learned a great deal from you! As everybody knows pros and cons to all gear. The Danley will go lower (12Hz) in my room. Think of the Danley as a sub that goes down deep with unlimited authority. It really is the only sub that I have owned that scares me at loud volumes. You don't know what is going to happen projector fall off the ceiling land in your lap or what! The Danley (in my room) does not have that 40Hz punch you in the chest that I like for theater. I then went and bought two JTR Growlers for the 40 hz. It is an amazing combo the best that I have heard in my room. You add the Danley two Growlers two amps you are at a MSRP of 7,200.00. The Conquest will do everything the Danley and the Growlers and will do except go down to the 12hz region and not play as loud. This is in my room of coarse some forum friends may get 12Hz in their room. The Conquest will go very close in output as the Danley Growler combo for only at my house 1775.00 delivered!!! I will be happy with the Conquest for a long time (that's what I told the wife). What I really want to hear is the Conquest and the A7-900 played together. Chad also has me excited about his new up and coming high end sealed subs that I would like to try. Thanks Craig for giving me the opportunity to give my opinion on what I heard at my house.
post #4379 of 6764
11/29/07 at 1:51pm
"I will be happy with the Conquest for a long time"

Is happy a long time 30 days or 45 days?
post #4380 of 6764
11/29/07 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmlowz View Post

Hello forum friends,

(that's what I told the wife)

You have a wife??? She must be a saint or be Craig's wife's sister.
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