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Official Craigsub rankings thread - Page 3  

post #61 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I just can't see the svs overloading at 94 db's, not with 2 -12 inch drivers and a 900 watt amp. Mine hits 117 db's without sweating but the room is much smaller, about half. They are measured outside by svs to hit much higher levels than you reached. It just does not make sense unless something is wrong. The HSU has a 500 watt amp with one 12 inch driver. Now when you tell me the jl audio can play louder and tighter then the SVS lets see, 13 inch driver(sealed) with a 2500 watt amp, no we are talking. I know these are your measurements but something does not add up. Have you ever tested the DTS-20?

You also need to remember that you are taking your readings at a higher frequency. I believe you were using the "Darla" scene which if I remember correctly is centered in the mid to high 30s. This will make a huge difference. Craigs room is also larger than yours.

You aren't comparing apples to apples...... so no need to worry. The only person you need to justify performance to is yourself.

-Eli
post #62 of 6764
That makes more sense. I am very interested in the av123 offerings as well as the submersive. I was thinking about upgrading my sub but I want to upgrade and not be more of a lateral move. Craig do you think the HSU is a good upgrade from my SVS or should I go higher on the list for more of an upgrade.
post #63 of 6764
Where is the SVS PB12-Ultra/2??
post #64 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

That makes more sense. I am very interested in the av123 offerings as well as the submersive. I was thinking about upgrading my sub but I want to upgrade and not be more of a lateral move. Craig do you think the HSU is a good upgrade from my SVS or should I go higher on the list for more of an upgrade.

THAT is a tough question. I think the VTF-3 HO w/turbo is about a 20% better performer than the Plus/2. Objectively, you can see from the graph that yes, it hits deeper, plus there is the subjective end, which may or may not agree with your subjective findings.

Let's answer by starting here:

If you were considering both subs, my first suggestion would be to get both and keep the winner, according to your ears.

They are both excellent performers.

In your case, as you already own one ... selling yours for a loss to get what I think is a 20% improvement seems like a poor use of $$$$.

Before doing that ... What is it about the SVS that makes you think "I want more?"...
post #65 of 6764
mKtheater,

If this helps your decision I change out often, Lately I have had the Klipsch Ultras Klipsch RT12d, Def Tech Trinity, DD 18 and the DTS20. I have sold all the others and just offered the DD18 to a friend. The DTS 20 is the best sub I have owned. In my opinion at my house the DTS 20 blows all the others away. Not that the subs I have mentioned are not great but the DTS 20 is in a whole different category of its own. Just my 2 cents.

rmlowz
post #66 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by swgiust View Post

Where is the SVS PB12-Ultra/2??

Yahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Where is that beast at?
post #67 of 6764
I have owned M&K mx5000's, the Klipsch thx ultra 2(both of them) and preferred my SVS over both. I am 100% into movies. That does make sense about the HSU and losing on my sub. I don't think that will be a consideration. The reason for changing my sub is not about spl as I reach 117 db's on my rat shack with it tuned to 20 hz and the sub does not break a sweat. I am looking at quality of the bass. I know the svs is very good, I owned the M&K. I wonder if I tune my sub to the 16 hz tune it will dig deeper and still hit 115 db's. Will this be a better effect? I know when I went from 25 hz tune reaching 121 db's(I run it hot) to 20 hz tune I just feel more impact. Will I get even more with it tuned lower? Remember My sub can handle my room with no problem.
post #68 of 6764
Craig, did you have to go up to '103' because you had previously thought that DD-18 was the best and hence the '100' perfect score?
post #69 of 6764
I will be watching. The top five I will miss.I buy them.

I think the rankings in SQ will be split among sealed subs. JL,Seaton Sound and the big Velo.

The vented subs,they all have a signature,no matter how well designed.Using dual PR's the Seaton designed BMF may rank high in SQ.

Come on Craig do not give up.Keep the subs moving air.
post #70 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I have owned M&K mx5000's, the Klipsch thx ultra 2(both of them) and preferred my SVS over both. I am 100% into movies. That does make sense about the HSU and losing on my sub. I don't think that will be a consideration. The reason for changing my sub is not about spl as I reach 117 db's on my rat shack with it tuned to 20 hz and the sub does not break a sweat. I am looking at quality of the bass. I know the svs is very good, I owned the M&K. I wonder if I tune my sub to the 16 hz tune it will dig deeper and still hit 115 db's. Will this be a better effect? I know when I went from 25 hz tune reaching 121 db's(I run it hot) to 20 hz tune I just feel more impact. Will I get even more with it tuned lower? Remember My sub can handle my room with no problem.

At what frequency are you getting the 117, 115, and 121 numbers? You list the tuning of the sub for those numbers, but not the frequency you a playing to get those numbers. Big difference.
post #71 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Richard, you are correct as far as that statement being made. However, the only fair way to test the PB10 is with the newest driver, IMO.

For $430, it is absolutely one of the best buys currently on the market.

I was torn between a PB10-NSD and the AVS123 Rocket X-Sub (phenomenal WAF - see attached picture) and chose the X-Sub (78 pt rating) based on your recommendation. The family could not be happier

I wonder if you have a threshold of points in your rating system where you say for example, anything under 'xx' is deemed unacceptable and not homeworthy
LL
post #72 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

At what frequency are you getting the 117, 115, and 121 numbers? You list the tuning of the sub for those numbers, but not the frequency you a playing to get those numbers. Big difference.


I have no idea. I just put in wotw and play the pod emerging scene. I sit about 8 feet away from the sub. The 115 is a guess if I tuned it to 16 hz and turned up the volume to get the same output. Fortunately for me my ceiling is not that high so it makes my cubic foot much smaller so it is very hard to over power this sub, not that I have tried.
post #73 of 6764
MKtheater - from the first post

Quote:


For the scale, I consider 75 to be about the point in which a subwoofer is having a major beneficial impact on the overall system ... and the X-sub qualifies for that distinction.
post #74 of 6764
MKtheater - from the first post

Quote:


For the scale, I consider 75 to be about the point in which a subwoofer is having a major beneficial impact on the overall system ... and the X-sub qualifies for that distinction.

Heh, my sub is probably like a 20. That or a new turntable will be my next upgrade. The HSU VTF-3 looks appealing on a priceerfomance scale. I'd want to spend $400-600ish so it's a little over budget but doesn't that always happen
post #75 of 6764
I started about 10 years ago with a KLH sub. Heck it was an all in one klh system. Still had a Laser disc player though. I don't need an upgrade but I am curious on how the Jl audio, submersive, and DTS-20 sound.
post #76 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I have no idea. I just put in wotw and play the pod emerging scene. I sit about 8 feet away from the sub. The 115 is a guess if I tuned it to 16 hz and turned up the volume to get the same output. Fortunately for me my ceiling is not that high so it makes my cubic foot much smaller so it is very hard to over power this sub, not that I have tried.

sitting that close, like you said, I would not worry much about output with any of the top subs in craig's list, I would think more about sound quality.
post #77 of 6764
That is exactly why I am asking. It is about sound quality. I see how sub subs are more musical so how does that translate into movies. What are the differences between subs during the pod emergence scene. How about a mental picture. I know when I play the JP3 scene when the airplane turns across the screen(when trying to escape the spinosauras) it feels like wind is hitting you in the head. One friend actually grabbed his hat. I love pulling people in my theater that has no idea. My theater measures 21 x 15 x 7. If you go to videogon and look up sony crt 1272 with extras for sale you can see my sub in my theater. I can not copy and paste it here.
post #78 of 6764
I couldnt see your sub. The pictures were kind of dark.

Well time to go watch BLACKHAWK DOWN SUPERBIT in DTS. This should give my PB-12 a gooooooood workout.

I only wish I had 2!
post #79 of 6764
MK,

i have two MK 5000THX subs, and am curious what you found to be the best placement for them? Also i do not think i would be able to sell these quickly so i plan on keeping them for a couple more years before i upgrade.


Walt
post #80 of 6764
My sub is located at the back right corner of the theater, next to the back seats. I always keep it dark, just enough light for setting up dvd's. Those M&K's are great subs. I stacked them on top of each other for the most output but if you want to even out the bass then try different locations.
post #81 of 6764
I am not a member at AV123 but somebody reading this must be. I would like to
post, again, where is the SVS PB12-Ultra/2? At least on this forum this has been
one of the "reference" subs for quite awhile. It doesn't seem fair to leave it out.
I do agree that the test was done quite well and the results are acurate (within reason). Almost any of the subs tested would do a great job for most every person.
post #82 of 6764
Craig,

How about the SVS Cylinder Subs????

Specifically the PC-ULTRA.


Thanks.
post #83 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmlowz View Post

mKtheater,

If this helps your decision I change out often, Lately I have had the Klipsch Ultras Klipsch RT12d, Def Tech Trinity, DD 18 and the DTS20. I have sold all the others and just offered the DD18 to a friend. The DTS 20 is the best sub I have owned. In my opinion at my house the DTS 20 blows all the others away. Not that the subs I have mentioned are not great but the DTS 20 is in a whole different category of its own. Just my 2 cents.

rmlowz

Impressive list of subs you have owned there. I know you have your DTS-20 as number 1 what was your 2,3,4, etc. and why? I was looking at the DTS-20, but it just was not practical for my house. Ok let me quit beating around the bush my wife would kill me if I bought and 88 inch sub , Oh well. I went with two JL F113's. I wonder how my two JL's would stack up versus your DTS 20. I would hope they would be somewhat close to the DTS-20, considering they are 6,600 MSRP versus the DTS-20 2,900.

I have owned: JL F113, Klipsch RSW-15, Klipsch RW-12, Klipsch Rw-10, SVS PB 12/plus 2 (12.3), and have had extensive experience with the Defentive Reference Supercube, and Paradigm Servo 15. Oh and almost forgot the Bose Bass Module. ........., does that count, anyhow that's my experience.
post #84 of 6764
rmlowz,

That is great news,you find the DTS20 in a whole new league of super subs! Hmm interesting,then it will be a green light for me.
post #85 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by swgiust View Post

I am not a member at AV123 but somebody reading this must be. I would like to
post, again, where is the SVS PB12-Ultra/2? At least on this forum this has been
one of the "reference" subs for quite awhile. It doesn't seem fair to leave it out.
I do agree that the test was done quite well and the results are acurate (within reason). Almost any of the subs tested would do a great job for most every person.

When I purchased 2 PB12-Ultras last year, the decision came to which was the better overall performer: The Ulltra/2 or the Ultra. After talking with Ed Mullen, I settled on the single driver Ultra. At the time, I was able to get two Ultras for $200 than a single Ultra/2.

Therefore, any placement on the Ultra/2 would be based on extrapolation from the Ultra's score.

I don't know how fair it would be to start posting numbers on a unit that I never tested ...
post #86 of 6764
I'd definatly like to see that Ultra/2 aswell. Also how the DTS-20 compares and just how much better it actually is then what's listed.

And just from curiosity, the Definitve Tech Trinity and the Velo 18-12 would also like to be seen. I'm a fan of Def Tech and would be interested to see how their sub compares.

Great list and glad to see it here as it will help guide many people in the right direction with their purchases, can't wait to see how/if it changes when more subs are put into the mix.
post #87 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewB View Post

Craig, did you have to go up to '103' because you had previously thought that DD-18 was the best and hence the '100' perfect score?

You are pretty close ... At the end of the Velodyne DD-18 vs. ACI Maestro test, the winner was assigned a score of 100, with the other having been about 15% behind it, or 97 points. Based on the scale, it is possible, for example, that a subwoofer "scores" 115 points. That subwoofer would be roughly twice the perormer that the Velo DD-18 is.

I have been running some ideas about the effect that duals of any subwoofer adds to its performance, and the estimate is typically going to be one can add from 2-4 points for duals. Duals of any sub will NOT add 15 points to a subwoofer's performance (15 points is juat a bit over doubling the performance).

To answer the question, for example, about the Ultra Cylinder, it would score the same as the box Ultra.

And, as an estimate on the Ultra/2 ... I would call it 3 points higher than the single driver ultra.

Also ... keep this in mind on the Ultra: This is a driver which is in its 5th year of production (if memory serves, the current driver was available in May, 2002, in the SS cylinder subs). SVS is not just sitting still, and looking to "do nothing but raise prices" in 2007.

The next Ultra series is in the works, and will be a welcome addition to the testing being done here. The current Ultra driver is still competitive, even after this long. That speaks volumes.
post #88 of 6764
Have you ranked the Sunfire Signature?
post #89 of 6764
Adding in my two bits -

I went from a SVS 20-39 PC+ (with 12.3 driver) to a HO w Turbo based largely on what Craig had to say about the new HO driver/amp. My impression is that they aren't that much different for HT but I could easily notice a difference in music articulation. I presume this difference should be noticeable for HT as well but I just didn't spend much time comparing the two. Craig is truly a sick man. (In a good way)

Of course - due to the turbo - there is a large difference in scenes like Irene or Neo talking to the machine in Revolutions since I was only running the SVS in its native 20 hz tune.
post #90 of 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoil View Post

Have you ranked the Sunfire Signature?

No ... It has been about 6 years since any of the Sunfire Subs have been in our home.
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