or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Flat Panels General and OLED Technology › Official "1080p Vs. 720p" Thread Discussion
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official "1080p Vs. 720p" Thread Discussion - Page 5

post #121 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Bottom line: you have to go MASSIVE and sit close--if you don't you're just watching TV.

I thought this forum was about TV. What'd I miss?

David
post #122 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikedorian View Post

I thought this forum was about TV. What'd I miss?

David

Good point

Big TVs... that simulate some sort of home theater environment.
post #123 of 1467
Maybe the POINT of HD is to go beyond TV to something resembling Theater--you might even say Home Theater!

TV has always looked different to me than the theater. The 480p DVD worshipers can't see a difference--the 720p and 768p worshipers can't see a difference and the 1080i worshipers can't see a difference--I wonder if 1080p worshipers can see a difference?
post #124 of 1467
Pssst....don't let those ED guys know just how bad it is without 720p and 1080p.
post #125 of 1467
Looking for a flat panel TV to hang on the wall. This will be a second TV and I want to connect it directly to my cable. I want a digital cable ready tuner, thing is I cannot find a 720p/1080i set that comes with a QAM tuner. I have to buy a 1080p set that is more expensive and which I will never use the extra resolution on to get a digital cable tuner. anybody else have this issue and is there a set that will fit my needs??
Thanks
post #126 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by WLSINWI View Post

Looking for a flat panel TV to hang on the wall. This will be a second TV and I want to connect it directly to my cable. I want a digital cable ready tuner, thing is I cannot find a 720p/1080i set that comes with a QAM tuner. I have to buy a 1080p set that is more expensive and which I will never use the extra resolution on to get a digital cable tuner. anybody else have this issue and is there a set that will fit my needs??
Thanks

My Olevia 537, 37", came with a QAM Tuner. It's costs $9. a month to get local hi-def channels.

David
post #127 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikedorian View Post

My Olevia 537, 37", came with a QAM Tuner. It's costs $9. a month to get local hi-def channels.

David

Interesting I am not familiar with the Olevia. I pay the extra $9 already for hi-def on my main set. As I stated I want a set to hang on the wall and not have a cable box. On reflection on that I should be looking for a set with a cablecard slot that I can plug into the set. I did find a 42inch Phillips and a 32 inch bravia XBR that met my needs after extenssive searching. Cablecard sets are going the way of the dodo however- not saying they are bad but they don't support the newer features.
post #128 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Maybe the POINT of HD is to go beyond TV to something resembling Theater--you might even say Home Theater!

TV has always looked different to me than the theater. The 480p DVD worshipers can't see a difference--the 720p and 768p worshipers can't see a difference and the 1080i worshipers can't see a difference--I wonder if 1080p worshipers can see a difference?

Careful Art, you are about to give away the real secret about front-projectors, 120" screens and how much better 1080p looks on a real screen!
post #129 of 1467
anyone happen to have the link to an article that was recently posted here talking about 1080i vs 1080p inputs and due to how video is filmed 1080p/24fps the output was then re-scaled a couple of time, that was the jist of the article.. thanks
post #130 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikedorian View Post

My Olevia 537, 37", came with a QAM Tuner. It's costs $9. a month to get local hi-def channels.

David

Don't you get more than "local" channels...ie. ESPNHD, TNT-HD, INHD, HDNET1, HDNET2, HBO-HD, etc.??
post #131 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by OreoJoe View Post

Is this it?
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles...part_6_-_1.php


OreoJoe, that is very similar but not the article i'm trying to hunt down. Thanks for posting it.

Once the new forums were created and everything is pretty scattered I can no longer find the thread that had the link, the gentlemen who wrote it was very adamant that as long as the tv has a good scaler, 1080i will put out the pic as 1080p.

Thanks
post #132 of 1467
I still have doubts about inverse telecine over broadcast channels.
It's one thing to do it from local media (BRD/HD-DVD), it's quite another to do it from a source that could be doing 'who-knows-what' to the original film source.
post #133 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerclesJay View Post

OreoJoe, that is very similar but not the article i'm trying to hunt down. Thanks for posting it.

Once the new forums were created and everything is pretty scattered I can no longer find the thread that had the link, the gentlemen who wrote it was very adamant that as long as the tv has a good scaler, 1080i will put out the pic as 1080p.

Thanks

I believe you can find the article you are talking about (THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 1080i AND 1080p) near the bottom of this page: http://blog.hometheatermag.com/geoffreymorrison/

An updated article can be found here:

http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/
post #134 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmlobo View Post

I believe you can find the article you are talking about (THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 1080i AND 1080p) near the bottom of this page: http://blog.hometheatermag.com/geoffreymorrison/

An updated article can be found here:

http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/



That is exactly the article I was looking for, thank you for that as well as the updated link, much appreciated!
post #135 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by OreoJoe View Post

Not true; there are 120 Hz TVs for sale in the USA. 5:5 pull down for 120 Hz refresh removes motion blur and prevents cadence error.

MCFI motion-compensated frame interpolation, not mentioned, does add new information.

Do you know of any specific models. I'd like to avoid motion blur while using my 360 and watching sports.
post #136 of 1467
Sounds alot like interlacing to me along with a higher refresh, not necessarily ab bad thing, I hope it works.
post #137 of 1467
I just purchased a 32" LCD TV, the manual and box claim the set does 1080I, but when I "info" a HD channel (that i know is putting out 1080I) it's showing it's doing 720P? Could it be this set's specs / manual advertises it does 1080I but only does 720P? It's a Symphonic WF32L6 LCD TV. Could it be that my set is actually seeing a 720P signal and not upconverting to 1080I?
post #138 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdyMan View Post

I just purchased a 32" LCD TV, the manual and box claim the set does 1080I, but when I "info" a HD channel (that i know is putting out 1080I) it's showing it's doing 720P? Could it be this set's specs / manual advertises it does 1080I but only does 720P? It's a Symphonic WF32L6 LCD TV. Could it be that my set is actually seeing a 720P signal and not upconverting to 1080I?

I don't know the native resolution of your new set but I have to guess it is 720/768 (due to screen size). If this is correct what the specs mean is that the set will accept a 1080i input and scale it down to 720/768 to fit your screen. This is normal.

Do you use a cable or satellite STB? If so, check your menus and check the output. It could be set to output 720p. If so, then the STB is deinterlacing and downscaling all 1080i signals to 720p prior to inputing the signal to your set. You could change the output to 1080i and then your set would have to deinterlace and scale. Either way, a 1080i signal will be scaled down to the native resolution of your set 720/768. Even "if" your 32" set had a 1920x1080 display, I seriously doubt you could see any difference between 720p and deinterlaced 1080i.

There is never any reason to upconvert 720p to 1080i in a display. LCDs and most plasmas have a fixed number of pixels, this mean they are progressive displays and are incapable of displaying an interlaced signal. An interlaced signal has to be deinterlaced and converted to 1080p for a 1080p display panel.

Bottom line. There is nothing wrong with your set. If the STB is doing a good job deinterlacing and down scaling 1080i signals, I would leave it alone.
post #139 of 1467
This may be a silly question..How does a 1080P scale up from 1080i or 720P? How does it fill the extra lines of resolution?
post #140 of 1467
Ok.. This is a great thread. I've had my 50" Sony A10 Series LCD Projection TV for about a year now, (a 720p set, which I *believe* is 768p). I just got my PS3 this morning and will obviously be running it in 720p/1080i mode (since PS3 doesn't natively output 720p on BR movies)

I sit about 7-8 feet away from the TV.. would I notice the extra resolution definitively? I will eventually give my set to my mom as she's stuck in the stone age in TVs and get a 1080p set in a year or 2.
post #141 of 1467
I'm a bit overwhelmed by the technical explanations

is it possible to take the tech out of the equation and simplify when getting a 1080p set is "worth" it...

for example, I'm looking at either a 46" Sony LCD 1080P set or a 50" Panasonic Plasma 720p. It's for my parents who will use it as their main TV for viewing SD and HD (digital Cable) and their DVD is not upscaling. They will be sitting 8-12 feet from the screen. My guess is that this is pretty typical for most home set ups. Would they benefit from the added expense of the 1080p? If yes, in what way/which circumstances?

Thanks
post #142 of 1467
In my opinion, a 46" 1080p at 8-12 feet is unneccesary. Additionally, all their SD will be upscaled to 1080 making every little defect in PQ quite difficult. That is why most 1080's are rough with SD material. The SD will look much better when the panel resolution is closest to the broadcast resolution.

So from a PQ, panel size, cost, and viewing distance perspective, the plasma is the better choice. Unless they are hardcore gamers
post #143 of 1467
Hi guys newbie here. Man all this HDTV stuff is confusing. I am looking into getting a plasma or LCD and was really only thinking of either the Panny 42px60u or the 50px50u and my other choice was the Westinghouse 42 1080p LCD. I really would like to keep it in the $1500 range. I found the westy for about $1350 shipped and have lines on brand new Pannys off craigslist brand new $1150 for the 42 and $1600 for the 50. After reading all these threads for days now I have gained some knowledge. My main concern is watching SD TV which will be mostly what we watch. It seems like these new HDTVs dont do such a good job with that signal. I have a nice 36 Misubishi CRT and the picture is awesome even after 10-12 years old!!!! I want to get into the HD arena but dont want to sacrifice the picture of SD? Now it seems like maybe the 42 panny with the lower resolution might be better suited to a SD signal?? Am I correct? Should I get a EDTV? But will EDTV show a nice HD pic?? Out of the 3 which would you recomend. Originally the Westy was my first choice but the Plasma junkies seem to have swayed me to a Panny plasma saying it has a better overall picture. I cant decide???
post #144 of 1467
Thread Starter 
I def. think the HD panny will be closer to your crt experience than the westy. It will probably handle SD content better too, as it's native/inherent resolution is closer to SD than the westy is, though again, the quality of the built-in panel scaler is the final determinate in this equation.

An ED 42" panel will perform the best for dvds and SD, and still give you marvelous HD, close enough to the real thing (for all but the most demanding), especially if seated beyond 7-8ft or so.

I really wanted to respond to your post because of the craigslist mention. Your price for the 42" doesn't sound so impressive, as you can find that on good sales at legit retailers, plus, you get the warranty which you probably wouldn't get from a seller on craigslist. The 50" price sounds very good, but still, too risky for this boy.
post #145 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

I def. think the HD panny will be closer to your crt experience than the westy. It will probably handle SD content better too, as it's native/inherent resolution is closer to SD than the westy is, though again, the quality of the built-in panel scaler is the final determinate in this equation.

An ED 42" panel will perform the best for dvds and SD, and still give you marvelous HD, close enough to the real thing (for all but the most demanding), especially if seated beyond 7-8ft or so.

I really wanted to respond to your post because of the craigslist mention. Your price for the 42" doesn't sound so impressive, as you can find that on good sales at legit retailers, plus, you get the warranty which you probably wouldn't get from a seller on craigslist. The 50" price sounds very good, but still, too risky for this boy.

Thanks for the responce. Yeah I am a little weary of buying off Cl but I thought the prices were great. The best I saw online was almost $1400 for the Panny 42 and $2100 for the 50. In B&M stores they are way more plus I have to pay tax so I may have to go the online route? So EDTV will produce a nice "HD" picture even though it wont be real HD right?? 7-8 ft is about the distance we will sit.
post #146 of 1467
Thread Starter 
yep. There's been a recent thread which addressed the subject in depth, entitled something to the effect of "Are you still happy with your ED panels?" I suggest you find it, and it could be quite instructive for you. Given how the forum has been split into subcategories recently, I'm not sure if you'll find it in this forum, or the Plasma specific forum. In either case, I think it should appear within the first few pages of either forum. Prices differences between 42" ED & HD are typically within a couple hundred of eachother these days, when they used to be several hundred, so it should be noted that for such little difference, many feel it's best to go for the HD nowadays. Good cases can be made for either decision, and you probably can't go wrong either way.

Actually, let me amend that by saying at 7-8ft, you reeeally should visit a few stores, find and ED & HD panel (often side-by-side), tape measure the difference to match your seating arrangement, and assuming they have a half way decent HD feed going, look at both and see how much difference you can see. Preferrably at a smaller botique or higher end a/v store, as they are more likely to have a better setup. You start to see what is called the "screen door effect (SDE)" , a grid like pattern in the panel, the closer you inch towards both the ED and HD panels. You'll notice it first from the ED panel before you would from the HD, but it's there for both. These are basically gaps between the pixels. Less dense pixel structure means more "screen door" when viewing up close, which varies depending on the quality of your vision.

As far as 42" Panny pricing, around Thanksgiving, some popular merchants had one day $1k prices. I can elaborate no further, as we are forbidden from discussing prices on the forum in too much detail. But sale prices like this will likely become more common over the course of the next several weeks. I've looked through the craigslist in my Chicago area on occasion, and I've never been inspired to pursue it further, as prices were rarely all that impressive (I've found), and unless it's a outrageously good deal, I wouldn't risk it.
post #147 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

yep. There's been a recent thread which addressed the subject in depth, entitled something to the effect of "Are you still happy with your ED panels?" I suggest you find it, and it could be quite instructive for you. Given how the forum has been split into subcategories recently, I'm not sure if you'll find it in this forum, or the Plasma specific forum. In either case, I think it should appear within the first few pages of either forum. Prices differences between 42" ED & HD are typically within a couple hundred of eachother these days, when they used to be several hundred, so it should be noted that for such little difference, many feel it's best to go for the HD nowadays. Good cases can be made for either decision, and you probably can't go wrong either way.

Actually, let me amend that by saying at 7-8ft, you reeeally should visit a few stores, find and ED & HD panel (often side-by-side), tape measure the difference to match your seating arrangement, and assuming they have a half way decent HD feed going, look at both and see how much difference you can see. Preferrably at a smaller botique or higher end a/v store, as they are more likely to have a better setup. You start to see what is called the "screen door effect (SDE)" , a grid like pattern in the panel, the closer you inch towards both the ED and HD panels. You'll notice it first from the ED panel before you would from the HD, but it's there for both. These are basically gaps between the pixels. Less dense pixel structure means more "screen door" when viewing up close, which varies depending on the quality of your vision.

As far as 42" Panny pricing, around Thanksgiving, some popular merchants had one day $1k prices. I can elaborate no further, as we are forbidden from discussing prices on the forum in too much detail. But sale prices like this will likely become more common over the course of the next several weeks. I've looked through the craigslist in my Chicago area on occasion, and I've never been inspired to pursue it further, as prices were rarely all that impressive (I've found), and unless it's a outrageously good deal, I wouldn't risk it.

again thanks! Yeah I read some of that EDTV thread and like you said the diff in price right now between the ED and HD isnt what it used to be and most people will just pony up the extra couple hundred and get the HD. I really want the true HD but want great SD PQ too. I have gone to the store and its such a hassle. They never have them set right and you cant ever see the 2 you want side by side and your usually forced to watch it from 3 feet away due to the isles,, so I am just gonna go off the reviews from all you "Experst" Why cant they just make a widescreen that can do both perfect With all the technology we have cant it be done
post #148 of 1467
Thread Starter 
well, you could always visit the "video processor" forum here, and read slack-jawed as people discuss how their $1500-$2000+ processors do a "nice" or "decent" job cleaning up or improving their SD content viewing experiences. For me, the damn thing better be giving me an hourlong massage each night for those kind of prices!

It should be noted that the smaller your panel, the less obvious or troublesome SD content will be for you. As soon as you jump up to the 50"+ sizes, the more these types of processors begin to make sense, as every little flaw gets blown up.
post #149 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhark View Post

again thanks! Yeah I read some of that EDTV thread and like you said the diff in price right now between the ED and HD isnt what it used to be and most people will just pony up the extra couple hundred and get the HD. I really want the true HD but want great SD PQ too. I have gone to the store and its such a hassle. They never have them set right and you cant ever see the 2 you want side by side and your usually forced to watch it from 3 feet away due to the isles,, so I am just gonna go off the reviews from all you "Experst" Why cant they just make a widescreen that can do both perfect With all the technology we have cant it be done

The Fujitsu Plasmavision line of PDP's w/their AVMII internal video processor will deliver the holy grail of SD you are searching, as well as first rate HD. Try this, and your search will be over.
post #150 of 1467
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

The Fujitsu Plasmavision line of PDP's w/their AVMII internal video processor will deliver the holy grail of SD you are searching, as well as first rate HD. Try this, and your search will be over.

I am sure you may be right but did you happen to see I was trying to keep it around $1500 give or take $100!!! Not a couple thousand
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Flat Panels General and OLED Technology › Official "1080p Vs. 720p" Thread Discussion