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Cat’s Eye 164e Impressions

post #1 of 94
12/13/06 at 9:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quick specs of my HTPC
XP MCE05
Asus P5B
Core2 6600
2G Ram

I installed my 164e this evening and I often get a no signal detected when trying to watch LiveTV. Sometimes I can change the channel and then go back and it tunes in. Other times I have to close MCE and reopen it (and that may not do it). The signal strength is very unreliable (one time it will show 1 red bar in MCE and the next time it checks the channel it is full). I have an HDTivo and I had 2 Fusion Cards before this and my signal is usually 90-95% (I am within 10 miles of all the towers in my area) When the channels come in (which seems to be about 80% of the time) they work great, but this is kinda frustrating.

I HOPE this is a driver issue. I tried the shipping drivers and newest (as of 12/13/06) drivers on their website.

I also had one of the heatsinks on it come VERY lose and only about half on. If you look at the card, it is the smaller heatsink on the right that is not on properly. It is lose and is impeded from being flush on the chip it is intended to cool by something (yellow) on the board itself...

I am using a splitter from one antenna (which I have used MANY times before without issue) and tomorrow I will try 2 separate antenna's - 1 going into each input. I really hope this is a driver issue and can be fixed - I have 15 days to return it for a full refund and possibly get 2 Cat's Eye 150s.
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post #2 of 94
12/14/06 at 5:18am
I have the same issue regarding the can't tune the channel until you change the channel. But I found it picked up pretty much everything the Fusion 5 can. And I'm in NYC in an apartment so multipath is an issue. So it's reception seems pretty decent. You just can't rely on the signal strength monitor in MCE. WIll try Vista tonight.

I simply pulled the loose heatsink off (it's held on with sticky stuff) and simply reseated it so that it wasn't touching the yellow resistors and that worked fine.
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post #3 of 94
12/14/06 at 5:50am
Thread Starter 
I wonder if the signal problem is a software or hardware problem. I have 15 (now 14) days to return it if I dont like it (And probably get 2 Cat's Eye 150s). I REALLY want to keep the 1 card solution, but I am not willing to deal with maybe the channel will come in, maybe it wont.
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post #4 of 94
12/15/06 at 4:21pm
I've got mine up an running, and so far so good. Hooked up to a Channel Master DB4.
At first I was having issues with the signal on some of the higher frequencies. But once I added an amplifier to the mix, all channels are coming in perfectly (I'm even getting a PBS station that I was previously unable to pull in reliably).
I saw what you were talking about w/ the heatsink. Mine wasn't falling off, but I was able to see daylight between the chip and the heatsink. Just popped it off and stuck it back on, slightly offset so that it doesn't hit the 2 yellow capacitors.
From the little testing I've done so far, I'm not having any issues with it. Which is good, because after waiting for almost 9 months for this card to hit retail since the time Vbox "released" this card, I would have been extremely let down if it didn't work well.
Note: I'm only using this card as a dual ATSC tuner. I can't comment about it's performance as an NTSC tuner. As far as MCE 2005 goes, it doesn't look as though you'd be able to use it for NTSC.
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post #5 of 94
12/17/06 at 7:19am
Do I need another NTSC tuner(like in the old days) for MCE 2005 in order use this card or this is the only card that I need to run MCE 2005?

Tks.
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post #6 of 94
12/17/06 at 1:58pm
Looks like I may have spoke too soon.
This card doesn't seem to handle multipath as well as the 150's did. Either that, or splitting the signal from one antennae is screwing it up.
I'm gonna try hooking each tuner up to it's own antenna later this week and see how that works out.
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post #7 of 94
12/18/06 at 3:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skepticon View Post

Looks like I may have spoke too soon.
This card doesn't seem to handle multipath as well as the 150's did. Either that, or splitting the signal from one antennae is screwing it up.
I'm gonna try hooking each tuner up to it's own antenna later this week and see how that works out.

Looks like the ATSC signal is split internally. The top connector is for ATSC, middle for FM, and bottom for NTSC. I'm using this for ATSC only as well, and I'm experiencing unreliable tuning like everyone else. Hopefully this can be fixed with a driver update...
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post #8 of 94
12/18/06 at 5:37am
Thread Starter 
For what it is worth, I sent their Customer Support an email the night I go the card installed - no response. I Sincerely hope this is a driver issue. I have noticed that even though it doesnt tune LiveTV all the time, it has yet to miss a recording due to no signal... which leads me to believe that I have either been very lucky so far, or it is just a small driver issue.
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post #9 of 94
12/18/06 at 5:50am
it sounds like a driver-MCE interface issue..... my FujiPlus usb dongle similarly very often fails to tune a live channel and puts up a No-Signal blue screen, but NEVER misses a recording....

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post #10 of 94
12/18/06 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakaw View Post

Looks like the ATSC signal is split internally. The top connector is for ATSC, middle for FM, and bottom for NTSC. I'm using this for ATSC only as well, and I'm experiencing unreliable tuning like everyone else. Hopefully this can be fixed with a driver update...

I believe you're wrong about that. The middle is for FM, and the top and bottom are for each hybrid ATSC/NTSC tuner.
No splitting occurs in the card.
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post #11 of 94
12/18/06 at 7:04am
Can you guys check your event logs and see if you are getting error messages in the Application Log?

Every time I boot my machine, I get the following error message (one for each tuner):

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Media Center Receiver
Event Category: None
Event ID: 4
Date: 12/18/2006
Time: 12:25:04 AM
User: N/A
Computer: STIMULOUS
Description:
TV tuner malfunction. (0xc0040605) VBox Cat's Eye 164E TV-Tuner 2


When I open Media Center, the tuners do still work (although sometimes the signal does cut in and out)

Anyone else getting this?
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post #12 of 94
12/18/06 at 8:48am
Thread Starter 
I got an email back from VBOX Tech Support -
"Hi Scott
Let me check this issue and I will contact you later
Regards,
Lior Turgeman"

I told him I would be willing to help testing drivers, etc. At least they now know about the issue and are working on it. I will let you know if anything changes.
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post #13 of 94
12/18/06 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by skepticon View Post

I believe you're wrong about that. The middle is for FM, and the top and bottom are for each hybrid ATSC/NTSC tuner.
No splitting occurs in the card.

I verified this. Just disconnect the bottom coax and you'll still have two working ATSC tuners. The signal IS split internally. Try it!
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post #14 of 94
12/18/06 at 7:01pm
Hmmm...looks like you are correct, with a twist.
It seems that you can hook up to EITHER just the top or just the bottom, and the signal still gets split internally.
Unfortunately, using a single screw without a splitter between the antenna or amp doesn't help this card lock onto a signal any better.
I think the vbox 150 handles multipath better than 164e.
Hopefully this is something that a driver update can fix.
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post #15 of 94
12/19/06 at 3:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skepticon View Post

Hmmm...looks like you are correct, with a twist.
It seems that you can hook up to EITHER just the top or just the bottom, and the signal still gets split internally.
Unfortunately, using a single screw without a splitter between the antenna or amp doesn't help this card lock onto a signal any better.
I think the vbox 150 handles multipath better than 164e.
Hopefully this is something that a driver update can fix.

This is fact. I tested it last night. Either connection will work for ATSC. However, the reason I originally stated that the top connector was for ATSC was because when I initially connected the bottom, one I had no signal. So on my setup the top connector locks in the channel better so I get fewer "No Signal" messages from MCE. So try both connections if you're getting frequent "No Signal" errors.
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post #16 of 94
12/19/06 at 7:15am
This could be the problem with this card.
If both tuners are recieving a signal from both of the screws, then there is going to be even more multipath interference in the "final signal" (unless the signal being fed at one screw is perfectly in phase with the signal at the second screw...which is unlikely to happen).
I'm curious if the tuners are fed from both screws simultaneously, or if they just lock onto one or the other as needed.
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post #17 of 94
12/19/06 at 11:17am
I have the 164e sharing with a DVICO Fusion5 and so far I have not had any trouble getting three ATSC recordings going at once. I use Beyond TV, though. I don't have a copy of MCE, so I can't say if the problem actually lies there.

As for signal, I know I have excellent signal since every box I have ever plugged in has received all of the local channels there are.

It IS nice to know that I only need to provide signal to one of the RF jacks. That saves me 1 output on my splitter so there is more signal to go around to all of the cards.

David
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post #18 of 94
12/19/06 at 11:44am
Thread Starter 
Reply from VBOX Tech Support:


Hi Scott,
I wanted to let you know we are working on a fix in the drivers. New
(in-work) drivers were released to 3 users and we got so far positive
feedbacks. We want to run the drivers for more time before bothering you
trying them. But we'll keep you updated. Sorry for the inconvenient.

Regards, Yosi
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post #19 of 94
12/19/06 at 1:57pm
Well that's good to hear. Thanks for the update Morty.
I'll feel a lot better about this purchase once everything pans out.
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post #20 of 94
12/19/06 at 2:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skepticon View Post

Well that's good to hear. Thanks for the update Morty.
I'll feel a lot better about this purchase once everything pans out.

No problem. I have been impressed with the communication from their Tech Support so far.
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post #21 of 94
12/19/06 at 6:05pm
Thread Starter 
*sigh*

Well, Tech Support sent me some internal testing drivers (no, I wont share them - I had to promise I wouldn't) and I get the same problem. It *may* not have been quite as bad, but it definitely still isn't working properly.
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post #22 of 94
12/19/06 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortifer View Post

*sigh*

Well, Tech Support sent me some internal testing drivers (no, I wont share them - I had to promise I wouldn't) and I get the same problem. It *may* not have been quite as bad, but it definitely still isn't working properly.

I tested the drivers you have and no they don't work. I think it is becuase one of the three is an old version. I notified Vbox of the problem. I have a slightly earlier version that works great (all three same version) The Digital Strength Indicator is still messed up, but I'm more concerned about what I really get.
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post #23 of 94
12/19/06 at 9:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortifer View Post

*sigh*

Well, Tech Support sent me some internal testing drivers (no, I wont share them - I had to promise I wouldn't) and I get the same problem. It *may* not have been quite as bad, but it definitely still isn't working properly.

Do I know you from a different message board???
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post #24 of 94
12/19/06 at 9:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

Do I know you from a different message board???

Which one?
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post #25 of 94
12/19/06 at 9:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussT View Post

I tested the drivers you have and no they don't work. I think it is becuase one of the three is an old version. I notified Vbox of the problem. I have a slightly earlier version that works great (all three same version) The Digital Strength Indicator is still messed up, but I'm more concerned about what I really get.


Really? I got all three of the devices in Hardware Manager to go to the newest version (I checked before and after I installed the new internal drivers).

Yeah, I agree... the digital strength meter I don't care about, I want to reliably watch LiveTV and be confident my shows will be recorded.
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post #26 of 94
12/19/06 at 9:49pm
I'd also like to see the "Media Center Reciever - tuner failed" errors disappear from my event log. I just reinstalled Windows, and I'm still getting these errors with just the drivers installed on a clean slate.
Are you guys getting errors in the event log as well?
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post #27 of 94
12/20/06 at 5:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skepticon View Post

I'd also like to see the "Media Center Reciever - tuner failed" errors disappear from my event log. I just reinstalled Windows, and I'm still getting these errors with just the drivers installed on a clean slate.
Are you guys getting errors in the event log as well?

Nope, no application errors here.
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post #28 of 94
12/20/06 at 6:09am
Where is the MCE event log located?
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post #29 of 94
12/20/06 at 12:36pm
Has anyone tried terminating the "extra" rf input with a 75ohm cover? It is just an idea. For what its worth, the no tv signal screen in MCE is controlled by MCE and it seems to have a bit of a hair trigger. It will show up if it doesn't get a signal fast enough. I believe it has something to do with the timeout for building a graph. Also if LiveTV has problems and RecordedTV doesn't seem to have any problems, you can go into regedit and edit the record and watch preferred settings to see if that switches the scenario around. That would shed a little more light on this problem. It won't fix anything, but perhaps if one tuner seems to work better you could set that one as watch and record preferred.
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post #30 of 94
12/20/06 at 1:39pm
Thread Starter 
Hang in there guys, I have another internal beta driver that I have heard from a reliable source appears to fix the Signal Strength AND the LiveTV issues. I will test tonight and report back.
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