Format Battle General Discussion Thread: Discuss it here! - Page 53  

This is what I don't understand ... there is this inference that in an extra six months, we get this format in Blu-Ray that is good years longer than HD-DVD. And the delay in these profiles is so that they can make a better format ...

... But ... From what I am reading ... we have to wait 6 months not for something *better* than what we have in HD-DVD today ... but for something that does the *same things* that we can do *today* with HD-DVD.

Right. But far off places in sasketuan have better broadband than some places in the heart of major metros here.


If you knew real MS people - instead of just their carricatures - you won't be surprised

Problem with FIOS is getting the demarc to the MPOE done. I work with an ISP and am familiar with the difficulties. Verizon has the backbone EVERYWHERE in their turf (GTE country) in So Cal, but they have to dig conduit for the last part and that is slow going to connect the glass backbone to the actual prem.

I can't wait to kick Charter to the curb for FIOS!

That might be true, but sadly many of us here on AVS have seen nothing (sans sspears) to dispel that sort of impression..

b2b

I don't think X Box owners who decide to pay $1 more to download an HD version of a film are average consumers. Nevertheless, it does not change the main point of my post which is that neither current HD format will gain widespread public acceptance.

Downloaded films, whether HD or SD and HD VOD recorded on HD DVRs will win wider acceptance before either HD format has a chance to gain a substantial foot-hold.

Wow.

While paidgeek certainly has been informative and courteous (and it's much appreciated by me, BTW) saying Talkstr8 hasn't been actively knocking HD DVD is downright disingenuous.

I doubt it... but then I don't have a negative opinion on Microsoft, or it's people, as a whole. I've always rather liked Windows for home use (though I work on SuSE Linux and OS X Apples), as I'm a gamer. Even I can't stand some of sladhdot's generally pro-Apple/anti-MS bias.

Comcast may "offer" 8 but their real life speeds are under 6:

http://www.dslreports.com/archive/comcast.net

Oh and if you point it out, they will say those speed tests aren't valid. But they can't point you to a valid measurement.

I'm looking to dump them because of heavy packet losses.

Anyways, forget about the end-user broadband. Which service is ready to incur the huge costs of serving up a large collection of HD content? The bandwidth costs will force them to price at parity with packaged media, without offering anywhere near the quality and features. And studios won't let you burn downloaded files because they want to sell you the packaged media first, which is their proven revenue model.

So Verizon has no interest in deploying FIOS outside of the areas where they were the ILEC?

It would be so great if Verizon cherry-picked some areas out of AT&T/SBC/Pac Bells turf out here in CA.

Since AT&T is sticking to the inferior IPTV/FTTN infrastructure.

So did I, before joining MS about 2 years back. The crowd at MS is no different from any other geek crowd in any other place I've worked with (which were mostly non-MS shops since my specialization has been Unix/Oracle).


Yes, a lot of them go overboard. Then again, I don't read most of that stuff ...

perhaps I should change my signature to read:


"Post is copyright © 2007 by Kosty
All rights reserved with permission to copy and publish without alteration is hearby granted. Disfigurement or un-authorised modification is not allowed. Intelligent discussions of issued raised are allowed, fanboy bleatings or irrrational biases are not. Please respect other peoples work (however humble it is..) But if you post something stupid in response all rights reserved to hit your softball out of the park"

Hey now slow down... How is it disengenuous if I hadn't seen it happening? Which is all that I said in my post. I'm full willing to admit that later on in the thread I saw Talkstr8t call HD DVD 'inferior.' Well.... and so in that I was mistaken. And definitely no, I don't think that's anymore ok to do than what I was accusing Amir of; I'd much much prefer if people stayed positive about their own formats rather than get negative on the opposition's.

btw, i have got to give it up for this "coating" on the bd discs...while it certainly isn't fingerprint/smudge resistant/proof, it does appear to be scratch resistant.

when you clean the disc to remove the fingerprints/smudges, using even your t-shirt, you don't get the usual "marring" of the surface you would get with standard optical media...you know those "scratches" that appear to come from you using just about any material to wipe the surface of a standard optical disc...

i'm lazy and really like using my t-shirt

Just so that my post about PRML is not taken out of context: I have always said there are compromises/trade-offs in hardware on both sides. I believe Toshiba's PRML to be a better solution for optical channel too. They have excellent expertise in it since years. This is not a secret, really.
I don't know the politics of why BDA decided to go for pre-emphasis/post-equalization for the channel (I don't care), but it works. BD has a higher road-map for the drive speeds, though. I am sure sooner or later they will revisit this for higher speeds and go for PRML or refine the current approach if current method doesn't work. It is not a small change to switch to PRML because it requires different physical bits encoding/decoding among other things, but by the time this actually comes into practical consideration, most front-end chips will be targeting both BD and HD-DVD if not already, and then they will be able to reuse PRML logic without big change in design. Also, hopefully, Toshiba will be on board by then (because otherwise, they will have to develop their own PRML solution)!
Unlike media processors, front-end chips are mostly hard-coded in hardware, so I will not be surprised if PRML is never adopted for BD even if there is no politics.

Oh Lord, something else I have to learn?

PRML - what does that stand for, P.R. Makeitup Language?

It's just humor guys! Seriously, tho how does PRML factor here, with Bluray, Alex?

It rather worrisome that no one in the Bluray camp realizes that putting it IN THE MANUAL is a MAJOR legal problem for them, as this is too late, since the customer has already bought the player and most may never read the manual anyway.

This is almost a case-model for deceptive marketing, IMHO, given how much publicity and hype the BDA gang have given these features to encourage sales.


Keith, can you confirm whether the LG hybrid player is using the Sigma chipset?

The real question is if the LG player is only providing basic HDi support in the form of plain menus. If that meets the minimum requirements for HD-DVD, just what can people expect from other mfgs (when and if) they start building HD-DVD players ??

We have been hearing for months the mantra of "one HDi, one HDi" complete and ready to go, but now see that isn't exactly the truth..

b2b

PRML: Partial Response Maximum Likelihood. It is a method to improve reliability of physical signals (in this case off of optical discs). Toshiba has a PRML for HD-DVD. DVDs also use it, actually; different distribution, of course, since different media have different properties. Toshiba carries their expertise from years of HDD development. And no, you don't need to learn it. Unless you want to make it a talking point (you don't have to learn it in that case either)!

The numbers still don't have meaning, but this is the battle thread:

Top two HD disc rankings on Amazon are Blu-ray

At least as of 8:30pm EST - Jan 7 2007

That's a first.

Gary

Never say 'Never'.

- HD.. What'sHD

I agree absolutely with the above sentiments. My thinking exactly about why Amir's posts are kind of grating, personally speaking.

I would ask that those supporting BD not take that path cos it only turns people against their viewpoints, present and unfortunately, future ones. It will only hurt BD as a format.

hehe, nice analogy. Head of Nail.. HIT

What'sHD, I sent you a PM.

HD-exclusive studios did do a better job at encodings initially. BD-exclusive studios have caught up with them (mostly sony, the obvious culprit), the quickness of the catching-up due largely to the evident gulf in PQ.

The above makes me think DVD could have used a long-term, competing format in the consumer space, as could have VHS. PQ would have improved faster.

It's not just about movie length. It's about additional bonus content (probably going well beyond the standard deleted scenes / making of / gag reel which we expect today). It's about bundling additional content (buy Borat, get a season of Ali G for free; buy Star Wars and get a Star Wars PS3 starter game bundled). It's about interactivity (bundle a custom version of "Scene It" tailored to the movie). It's about complementary formats (i.e. Blu-ray camcorders). It's about non movie titles (educational, reference, etc.).

We've probably only got one chance to get next-generation optical media right. To waste that chance on "good enough (for today)" would be a tragically missed opportunity.

- Talk

No. Apparently Broadcom.

I suspect it is essentially a modified BD player ... so they have not had time to fully develop their HDi programs ... and thus probably missing a few of those features.

Yes. I would expect that any titles released which simply don't work on a given player would be a bug (of either the title or the player), not a design decision, and likely to be rectified via firmware update, title re-release, or title update via network.

For example, if a title has video commentary and you play it on a player which doesn't support secondary video, I'd simply expect you not to see the secondary video window (though the audio should work fine).

Yup, well said. Kudos to Universal. If anyone here has any inside source in Universal studios, please convey the heartfelt gratitude of HD-loving AVSers for their encodings (I hope I can presume that we appreciate universal's work).

They kicked sony studios' butt PQ-wise and contributed to the rapidity of the improvement in PQ. As a fan of high def and of BD, I thank them for that. I also thank MS for a great job with the VC1 encodings on universal titles.

From the Sony CES Keynote

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/07/l...y-ces-keynote/

4:54 - "So let's kick things off with the PS3." They're bringing up Peter Dille to give a PS3 update -- you may recall Peter? He's going over the usual PS3 pimping. Their goal: to ship 1m PS3s in 2006. Their accomplishment: reaching that goal. "One of the most important consumer electronics products of the decade." Apparently the PS3 has sold 1m units faster than PS and PS2, so he sounds pretty optimistic amidst the criticism surrounding Sony of late. Their next goal: 6m by March 2007.

I don't remember that goal. I wonder what the March goal will be come Apirl of this year.

Looks like for this player LG has "strategic partnership" with Broadcom.

EDIT: Ooops! Natraj already answered.