Format Battle General Discussion Thread: Discuss it here! - Page 10  

i think it will require two hd dvd players connected via a network connection and then each connected to its own input on the tv/monitor; then you hit the PiP button on the tv/monitor and voila

for those who may not appreciate this, i'm kidding

That is where we disagree.
Sony can't cut prices because the PS3 is already up to $400 below cost. The price cut is already built in.
Sony has already lost their "tight grip" on where they want to go. They have given the ball to Microsoft by launching 9 months late, in tiny numbers, with supply issues, and higher costs and anticipated.

Plan & Simple Sony is losing $240 - $400 per console. Future software revenue can NOT cover a loss like that. The only way is make the system profitable is to get the system loss < $160 / unit. They can do this by cutting their production costs however if they cut their costs by $100 and lower prices by $100 then they are back to the same loss per unit. Right now every PS3 sold is dead money. Most will never generate enough software revenue to pay for the $240 - $400 upfront loss. Now Sony can/will handle this by lowering their production costs by price cuts run contrary to that agenda.

Here is my prediction:
Sony will not cut the price of the PS3 prior to 2008 even when facing substantial price cuts from Microsoft and Nintendo in 2007.

Here is my bet:
I will buy a Sony BD player if Sony cuts the price on the PS3 before 2008.

I was going to say that Sony is already subsidizing PS3 heavily and more so in Japan than North America. I could see them extending the heavier Japan subsidy into the North American market. That would move the price from $499/$599 to $399/$499 (approximately the price in Japan).

But I forgot that it doesn't make sense for Sony to do this unless they can manufacture PS3 in big quantities. Why lower the price on an already scarce commodity? So I don't think we'll see any price action untill after they can make PS3s hand over fist. At that point I would expect a price cut to try and catch up to Xbox360.

Things don't look promissing on that front though. Even with Sharp coming on line to produce blue lasers, their entire projected output for 2007 is 500,000 units. Some of those are going to Toshiba, but even if all of them went to Sony, at 125,000 units per quarter, that's a drop in the bucket toward the promise of 6 million PS3s world wide by the end of March.

Why not just play the PiP content at 24 fps instead of 30? Is anyone really concerned about judder on the PiP content?

I plan to ask the folks from Toshiba how they're going implement this on the XA2 when I'm at CES.

I just posted this on the News thread. Probably the last batch of PS3s we'll see before Christmas.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/12/20/ps3_shipment/

It amazes me to see the snide comments on HD DVD, when Blu-Ray, with it's incredible specs and hefty studio support, has yet to better it. For all the talk about how BD outclasses HDDVD, is there one title that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the better specs translate into any real world advantage at all?

Sopranos Season 6 Part 1

BluRay Audio = LPCM (lossless)
HD-DVD Audio = DD+ (lossy)

b2b

That would be my preference: decimate or frame-repeat the secondary streams as need be to match the primary stream rate.

I'd much rather deal with judder or decimation in a PiP window occasionally than in the main feature all the time.

With Ron's comments, I decided to expect the worst... perhaps the decoders can't do such things easily for secondary streams...

Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised!

Well I suppose being silent is better than lying about it if you don't like the news.

I put in a clear vote here in agreement. Give me the 24fps option on the main feature, I don't give a damn about judder on the PIP anyway, heck I tolerate handy cam, b&W outtakes, half finished effects and no makeup on a scruffy looking director there now. In any bonus feature I can tolerate flaws as long as its interesting.

I want the main feature to be as perfect as possible.

Richard, wco81, Talk, and onanie, please take note: Kosty and I are levying a "complaint" against possible HD DVD execution we would find less than ideal!.

That is all. Thank you.

I do want 24fps playback on the main film. I may watch the PIP commentary once compared to the many times I will watch I movie I bought.

I want the HD shiny disc to be as good as it can be with the features Picture Quality.

I also want both formats to get better as I think its unlikely that either will die at this point. I'll criticise any execution in a HD DVD release just as much or more that I would if the disc was in Blu-ray.

500,000 units a month, not a year.

Thanks for the correction, I misread the article. It looks like the actual production is as follows.

http://news.digitaltrends.com/article11944.html

Electronics maker Sharp has announced it has launched commercial production of blue laser diodes, cranking out 150,000 units a month from a plant in western Japan.


Sharp said it plans to increase production of the diodes to 500,000 units a month by the end of 2007, but declined to speculate on its sales targets.


So if we average the numbers out over 2007, starting at 150,000 a month at the start and progressing to 500,000 a month at the end of the year we get 3.9 million for the year (assuming they can ramp the production as high as they hope). Some will go to Toshiba, some will go to BD CEs, not sure if Sony has signed to buy any. These numbers are still small when you think about the volume needed for PS3 production during 2007.

And your listening tests reveal?

They're using PCM because there isn't any lossy codec as good as DD+ @ 1.5 Mbps mandatory in BD.

Link posted by Rob Zuber on the news thread.

Finally, PlayStation 3 sales rise in Japan
http://reseller.co.nz/reseller.nsf/n...25724B000BB8BF

Japan Weekly Console Sales
PS3 Wii
81,639 n/a Nov. 11-12
42,099 n/a Nov. 13-19
32,622 n/a Nov. 20-27
31,436 350,358 Nov. 27 to Dec. 3
50,171 85,439 Dec. 4 to 10

Total PS3=237,967
Total Wii =435,797

Oh, it's Christmas....give him a small victory.

If this is the best b2b can come up with, it pretty much speaks for itself.

Well from what I have heard the PS3 is actually capable of decoding two 40 Mbps MPEG-4 AVC HP streams at once. Of course you may claim that hasn't been shown but we know for a fact that it can decode a 40 Mbps MPEG-4 AVC HP stream at 1.5x speed. Both of which are interesting since they would indicate that the PS3 is more than capable of decoding two video streams at once. Especially considering that the maximum combined video bit rate for both video streams has to be 40 Mbps or less.



No offense but no only is that one of the poorest conclusions I have heard in a while but there really isn't any question about whether or not the PS3 can do PiP with Blu-ray. Of course it could. The question is when, or if you are very pessimistic if, that ability will be added to the PS3.



For what you consider a tack-on I guess beating HD DVD in terms of requirements is something that you simply consider a minor detail. After all Amir wasn't arguing against HD PiP on this forum for no reason at all.



Do you know for certain that anything that BD-J can do can also be done with HDi? If not than how can you possibly claim this?



Technically speaking the PS2, Xbox, and HD-A1 are obsolete products but you know quite that people do not go by the dictionary definition of that word. You know quite well that when you use that word in your signature that people may not correctly understand what it means. As such you are going out of your way to deceive people about Blu-ray and defend that by saying that it is an opinion. Maybe so, but it still isn't a very honest thing to do.



I don't remember anyone claiming that Disney would never start using VC-1 for their Blu-ray releases. Now if you think this news means that Disney is going neutral than you can have that opinion. Personally though I wouldn't get to excited about that since any studio can use VC-1. Even a studio exclusive to Blu-ray.



Exactly how does Disney using VC-1 make them better positioned to release on HD DVD? Also do you even know if the encoding that is used for Flightplan could be used for HD DVD?

What's with this "mandatory" business everyone keeps pointing out. Aren't all HD DVDs supposed to have mandatory 2.0 True HD? How many titles have True HD, period? 10 maybe out of 150+?

That would be a supreme case of the tail wagging the dog (which is not unheard-of on this format war, and by both sides).


*********

Now for something completely different. I'm not posting this on the news thread, so in the spirit of holiday fun:

MS exec uses the P-word!
"I think the Wii is of interest, I'm not sure what its long term potential is."

A bit more seriously:

Paramount: 'Mission Impossible III' Top Selling Hi-Def DVD

And look at the commentary on highdefdigest

My sentiments exactly. If you could alter the main movie from 24FPS to 60FPS, why not change the secondary PIP window from 60FPS to 24FPS. Who the heck comes up with these priorities anyways?

That's it? After all the talk of how higher bitrates and more capacity and studio muscle make BD the big winner, the best you can pull out is that the Sopranos has a lossless audio track whereas the HD DVD doesn't?

No.

show of hands, how many people here have a monitor/display that can display at 24p, or multiple thereof?

i recently just got one, but all others in my home aren't capable and will not be replaced any time soon.

i also wonder what percentage of consumers out there have front projection systems?

All HD DVD players need to decode 2.0 TrueHD. It's not mandatory for HD DVD movies.

all hd dvd players must decode 2.0 TrueHD, yes...studios don't have to release a TrueHD track.

i was doing some a/b comparos again last night with superman returns and i'll be damned if i can detect a difference between the THD track and the DD+ being reencoded to DTS out my optical and into my Yamaha RX-Z9

ok, the similarities in responses is eery

i don't follow, i certainly consider the pip the tail and the main video the dog and therefore making the pip display at the main video's 24 (for native 24 content) wouldn't be the tail wagging the dog...did i miss something?