Format Battle General Discussion Thread: Discuss it here! - Page 107  

Originally Posted by rto

Yeah, cuz we have the precedent of this exact scenario having been played out millions of times with VHS and Beta, right?........And I suppose the "typical" family doesn't subscribe to an online service, because they are notorious conduits for sexually explicit media? Or perhaps we're to accept the chauvinistic premise that "decent" women don't enjoy porn? Uh huh. Sorry, but this is wishful thinking, at its' silliest.

Originally Posted by Kosty

Not quite 2.5 million in stand alone sales.

Even with 170,000 HD DVD players sold in 2006 and 500,000 Xbox 360 sales in 2007 , I think that 1.8 million is a very high estimate for HD DVD sales.

Originally Posted by Kosty

He's still thinking on how he got screwed on the Blu-ray player returns that they wouldn't credit back to his business.

Originally Posted by Kosty

They did not actively promise those dates to investors and the press such as Sony did with the PS3.

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

I think you can safely guess he meant worldwide. So, that could help the cause a bit.

I said "2.5 million player sales in 2007", not stand-alones. You're right, he means total including 2006. So 2.3 million this year.

Gary

That goes back to my previous post on this subject. Should I strip out all of the tiles in production for all of the studios? I can do that (when I get some time), but I'm not sure that really alters the picture.

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

So, you're angry that Sony failed to end this war last spring?

Be honest, if Sony had delivered the PS/3 last March as it is, what would be the situation now?

Gary

Originally Posted by b2bonez

But everyone has heard of "Porn". And if you associate "Porn" with HD-DVD and associate "Disney" with family entertainment and Blu-Ray, then wave the Red Flag of "Porn" in front of a bunch of church ladies, guess which one gets thrown out with the trash...

Have you ever been in a suburban community when some porn shop tries to open up ?? It's in the papers, on the 6 o'clock news and county commisioners vow to never let it happen...

b2b

Originally Posted by 2Channel

I really don't see it, and here's why. Most people haven't heard of either format. Of the ones who have heard about either format, it's much more likely that it's the husband who has. It takes lots and lots of repition to seep into the public consciousness. That's why add campaigns are so expensive. One Reuters/AP story will make practically no impact.

Originally Posted by b2bonez

But everyone has heard of "Porn". And if you associate "Porn" with HD-DVD and associate "Disney" with family entertainment and Blu-Ray, then wave the Red Flag of "Porn" in front of a bunch of church ladies, guess which one gets thrown out with the trash...

Have you ever been in a suburban community when some porn shop tries to open up ?? It's in the papers, on the 6 o'clock news and county commisioners vow to never let it happen...

They did not actively promise those dates to investors and the press such as Sony did with the PS3. You're not comparing the month or so slippage of the "second generation " HD DVD players for a QC fix with the years of PS3 delay are you??

Originally Posted by b2bonez

Hey, I don't give a toot what people watch in the privacy of their homes. But if you get kids involved there are a lot of stupid people who don't know how to shelter them from the influence of porn.

I sat on a jury trial were a stepfather was accused by a 10 year old little girl of some very hideous things. The testimony of the little girl was graphic and very upsetting to the jurors and after all the evidence was in, most jurors felt the girl had been exposed to porn and suffered from nightmares involving her stepfather. It wasn't determined if the exposure was at her fathers home during visitation or in the home of the mother and stepfather, but something planted the images of what she testified to in her psyche. Luckily for the stepfather there was absolutely no physical evidence of molestation either of her person or room. Otherwise, without the good attorney he had, that man would be sitting in jail because of a traumatized, confused little girl....

b2b

Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer

I know Yoshi-san. And I can tell you this is his personal goal and he has plans to obtain his goal. Toshiba has very specific strategic plans and they are successfully rolling them out timely to obtain HD DVD market growth. Someday even B2B will be enjoying HD DVD in his home.

Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer

1. PS3S are not attached to the main HDTV in most homes.

Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer

I know Yoshi-san. And I can tell you this is his personal goal and he has plans to obtain his goal. Toshiba has very specific strategic plans and they are successfully rolling them out timely to obtain HD DVD market growth. Someday even B2B will be enjoying HD DVD in his home.

-Robert

Originally Posted by 2Channel
I really don't see it, and here's why. Most people haven't heard of either format. Of the ones who have heard about either format, it's much more likely that it's the husband who has. It takes lots and lots of repition to seep into the public consciousness. That's why add campaigns are so expensive. One Reuters/AP story will make practically no impact.

Therefore, XBox 360 are not attached to the main HDTV in most homes. Agreed? So, where are the Xbox 360 add-on sales that would dent this 2.5 million figure coming from?

What percentage of PS/3 are connected to HDTV, do you think?

Didn't Microsoft show survey results showing a large percentage expected for the Xbox 360? What makes you think people that can afford the expensive PS/3 wouldn't be MORE likely to have an HDTV?

Originally Posted by rto

Toshiba has been giving every indication of moving to clear the corporate decks, by giving up on SED, and reducing their commitment to chip manufacturing, as a result of market volatility.

Originally Posted by Kosty

Toshiba did not give up on SED, they still have engineeers working on it, For legal reasons they had to sell their stake back to Canon.

Originally Posted by rto

Was it a patent issue?

Originally Posted by AnthonyP

just to be a pain

how many years before fall of 2006 did they say it would be out, I thought they said late spring of 2006 for Japan. (go look back) that is less then a year if my math is right.

On the other hand when did Toshiba say the first HD DVD players will be out? was it fall of 2005? when did it come out? spring of 2006. What about PS3 (assuming you assumed Spring was for US as well) Spring 2006 delayed to fall 2006. How is what Sony said worst then Toshiba

Originally Posted by 2Channel

Q1 2005
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02...3_launch_date/

Sony itself signalled that the event could come much earlier than just ahead of E3 at its last annual analysts' day. Its roadmap, which accurately listed the Japanese and US PlayStation Portable release dates, points to an announcement well ahead of E3, in Q1 2005, the last quarter of Sony's FY2004, when ends on 31 March.

Q4 2005
http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/12/s...on-3-for-2005/

Sony's obviously feeling the pinch from all the Xbox 360 buzz going on right now, since apparently their CFO Takao Yuhara was quoted as stating (in so many words) that Sony was considering a 2005 launch for the PS3

But what really bothers me is the attitude toward the customer. Displays that run demos of BD-Live when there are no players for sale that have announced support for BD-Live borders on criminal behaviour in my mind.

Umm.. That's why they call them "demos". If demos are against the law, then you should have called the police while you were at CES and they could arrested half the exhibitors..

Displays that run demos of BD-Live when there are no players for sale that have announced support for BD-Live borders on criminal behaviour in my mind.

Originally Posted by Kosty

Misleading consumers with BD Live demos in B&M stores while no products are shipping with that feature is different than a trade show demo and is misleading

Saying all Blu-ray discs are 50GB and HD DVD are only 30GB when you are releasing all discs for months at 25 GB is misleading

Saying LPCM is superior to a mandatory lossless codec is misleading

Saying a 1080p output from your first player is superior to a 1080i output from a competing player when you add another chip to the output chain is misleading

Not saying consumers that your HD player won't play CD's like every DVD player on the market is misleading

Not saying upconversion capabilities on your cheapest HD player and then showing consumer demos using basic 480i and MPEG-2 at jacked up bit rates is misleading

Not saying you are wasting space on your 50GB or 25GB discs because you are using space wasting MPEG-2 and LPCM is misleading

Not saying that most of your releases have been and will be on 25GB discs for the foreseeable future and actually less than 30GB and implying all of your discs are 50GB is misleading

Not telling consumers that there newly bought $1000 players won't use BD Live features and may be obsolete soon or will perform in a lessor manner to next June's players or they will be handicapped is misleading

Not telling consumers about a need a fix for a "noise reduction' issue on your format's only player or blaming it on blind critics is misleading


..... I could go on

Originally Posted by wco81

Circumvented or cracked is semantics.

It's on **********, so the implementation wasn't exactly robust.

Saying that "smaller and slower" is better than "faster and bigger" is the ultimate in misleading spin from the HD-DVD spin meisters. So much so that now they are back to the drawing boards with one that's 51GB and has just about as much chance as the other one that was 45GB.

Originally Posted by Kosty

Misleading consumers with BD Live demos in B&M stores while no products are shipping with that feature is different than a trade show demo and is misleading

Saying all Blu-ray discs are 50GB and HD DVD are only 30GB when you are releasing all discs for months at 25 GB is misleading

Saying LPCM is superior to a mandatory lossless codec is misleading

Saying a 1080p output from your first player is superior to a 1080i output from a competing player when you add another chip to the output chain is misleading

Not saying consumers that your HD player won't play CD's like every DVD player on the market is misleading

Not saying upconversion capabilities on your cheapest HD player and then showing consumer demos using basic 480i and MPEG-2 at jacked up bit rates is misleading

Not saying you are wasting space on your 50GB or 25GB discs because you are using space wasting MPEG-2 and LPCM is misleading

Not saying that most of your releases have been and will be on 25GB discs for the foreseeable future and actually less than 30GB and implying all of your discs are 50GB is misleading

Not telling consumers that there newly bought $1000 players won't use BD Live features and may be obsolete soon or will perform in a lessor manner to next June's players or they will be handicapped is misleading

Not telling consumers about a need a fix for a "noise reduction' issue on your format's only player or blaming it on blind critics is misleading

..... I could go on

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Issuing a press release to make folks think that 51GB discs are imminent and will be used for the format and not saying if they are backwards compatible is misleading.

In what way? It may take up more space but the sound quality is the same or BETTER since PCM tracks for BD have been 24/48 resolution!

Originally Posted by Steeb

That's not misleading. Misleading would be issuing a press release saying that all legacy HD DVD players would be able to play TL51 discs when they knew the players were incapable.

The only way the press release would be misleading is if the discs were never released.

Or for the most capacity, just pile on more high-capacity layers. In May 2005, Toshiba announced a triple-layer HD DVD disc at Media-Tech. The HD DVD 45 has a capacity of 45 GB (12 hours). The draft specification for the format has been submitted to the DVD Forum, and should be approved "later this year," says Knox.

Knox reports that triple-layer demo material should be available in the summer, and that existing players can read the format, requiring only a firmware change. The discs could be available in 2005, he says, "although the very beginning of 2006 is more likely for volume production."