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Format Battle General Discussion Thread: Discuss it here! - Page 204  

post #6091 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

It's called half off that started today.

Holy moly, this could be doomsday ringing for HD DVD. Wonder how cheap i'll be able to get an XA1 for if/when that happens. I definitely want at least one to play Frankenstein with...

KoH BD is currently #18, Xmen 3 # 19, Casino Royale #20, Black Hawk Down #22, and Ice Age: The Meltdown #30...

What's the half off promotion? Any details?
post #6092 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by amazon View Post

Save 50% on Blu-ray DVDs

This is the sale you've been waiting for to build your new Blu-ray DVD collection. Dozens of titles, all Blu-ray, are 50% off, so stock up now and save. See more in our our Blu-ray store.

Discussed:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=815574
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=815823
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=815711
post #6093 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by rto View Post

Bartending is one of the most effective unrecognized schools of human psychology that exists, for anyone blessed with the proper set of intuitive proclivities...

...such as the ability to properly "prepare" the subject under study with a number of delectably dry martinis graced with Bombay Sapphire and just the slightest hint of extra dry vermouth.

--Jerome
post #6094 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliga View Post

I would wager that most people here have a genuine understanding of the basic rules of civil discourse.

Sure, but in my opinion I think that honesty is even more important than being nice. In other words I think you may be holding the virtue of civility to highly while not caring enough about the virtue of honesty.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneL View Post

Some BD supporters should look deeply into their souls to make sure they aren't simply prejudiced against HD and its proponents. IMO

And in my opinion some HD DVD supporters need to think long and hard about whether it really makes sense to defend Amir when he bashes a competing video codec. For instance are there any posters that are actually for that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

This is from one of the most "influencial" HD-DVD dealers/"experts":

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9949841

Surprising, I know Robert has never been a supporter of Blu-ray but I never knew that he had such a negative opinion of it. Personally I think that two calibrated 1080p displays with 1:1 pixel mapping would easily prove that statement wrong in a fair test.
post #6095 of 6336
It is a sale. Ie. a blip on the sales curve. A very nice blip, for the Blu-ray crew, at least. Of course, the scale on a couple of those graphs will be messed for a while when things go back to normal... Will be interesting to see if the sales hold up for the whole week...
post #6096 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Sure, but in my opinion I think that honesty is even more important than being nice. In other words I think you may be holding the virtue of civility to highly while not caring enough about the virtue of honesty.

Interesting how a discussion of civil discourse leads you to an ad hominem attack on my personal values.

I think that you and I are about as far apart on this subject as two people can be and I accept that. Why you decided to bring this topic back to the public forum after I went to some lengths to contact you privately about our differences is something of a mystery to me.

You want to argue that I don't care enough about honesty. Fine. History is littered with examples of people who tried to hide their misdeeds behind a cloak of virtue. Your considerable posting record suggests to me that you routinely prize conflict and confrontation of a personal nature above all else.

Have the last word if you must, but I won't be commenting on this particular subject again.

--Jerome
post #6097 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sketcha View Post

And that's very gracious of you, but you don't owe me a thing.

Can I have the Pioneer BDP-S1/PRO-FHD1 combo he was going to give you?!?
post #6098 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliga View Post

I won't accept that they are mutually exclusive Richard. From where I sit that is merely another rationalization for bad behavior.

I think the record shows that you and I are about as far apart on this subject as two people can be and I accept that. Why you decided to bring this topic back to the public forum after I went to some lengths to contact you privately about our differences is something of a mystery to me.

You want to argue that I don't care enough about honesty. Fine. History is littered with examples of people who tried to hide their misdeeds behind a cloak of virtue. Your considerable posting record suggests to me that occasionaly you prize conflict and confrontation of a personal nature above all else.

Have the last word if you must, but I won't be commenting on this particular subject again.

--Jerome

And pre-pending "Just to mention..." before an onslaught is no better than going after somebody confrontationally and then tacking a couple of smilies on at the end,
post #6099 of 6336
Ugh - I bought a Tosh HDA2 last week and signed up for Rogers Direct Video online

I added about 25 titles to my list - about 18 of which were HD DVD

I received 4 SD DVD's as my first round of discs
Returned them and I have 3 more SD DVD's on the way - dammit - I want HD DVD!

I'm not sure what the deal is here - am I helping the HD cause by listing my demand for the content? Will there be a bulk order of HD DVD due to consumers listing it as a preference on their Ziplist?

I hope something happens soon - I am not prepared to buy much content at all - I want to rent until things are a little more sorted out.
post #6100 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Bear in mind Sony is claiming units shipped, while vgcharts seems to be tracking units sold.

Talkstr8t has nailed something that I think has been lost on many posters.

CE companies typically release sales to dealers numbers but many industry reports are counting sales to consumers. In relatively new products such as the PS3, a very significant number of products sold to dealers are used to fill the retail pipeline and won't actually sell-through for some time.

Everyone please be careful to clarify before throwing statistics around
post #6101 of 6336
Boycott both of them until they decide on a single format and the prices come down! The actors look better in 480p anyway....who needs to see wrinkles, freckles, and other blemishes!
post #6102 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Sure, but in my opinion I think that honesty is even more important than being nice. In other words I think you may be holding the virtue of civility to highly while not caring enough about the virtue of honesty.


And in my opinion some HD DVD supporters need to think long and hard about whether it really makes sense to defend Amir when he bashes a competing video codec. For instance are there any posters that are actually for that?


Surprising, I know Robert has never been a supporter of Blu-ray but I never knew that he had such a negative opinion of it. Personally I think that two calibrated 1080p displays with 1:1 pixel mapping would easily prove that statement wrong in a fair test.

All this has been talked out. No need to bring it up again.
post #6103 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneL View Post

All this has been talked out. No need to bring it up again.

I think you're right.

No one has refuted the points made here about the Amir/codec debacle. I believe the point is made. No need to...

post #6104 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbys35c View Post

Boycott both of them until they decide on a single format and the prices come down! The actors look better in 480p anyway....who needs to see wrinkles, freckles, and other blemishes!

The prices won't come down by boycotting - both sides will lose
remember SACD and DVD Audio??

I won't tell anyone to go out and buy h/w or media, but if no one does, nothing will move forward

My personal input to this situation?

I bought a Tosh HDA2 - so there is some hardware support
I have bought 3 HD DVD's - so a small drop of software support
I have listed HD DVD for the preference on my 30 disc list on Rental online

That's about all I am willing to do at this point
post #6105 of 6336
debacle? How about fooforaw? bloviation?
post #6106 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablo13 View Post

The prices won't come down by boycotting - both sides will lose
remember SACD and DVD Audio??

I won't tell anyone to go out and buy h/w or media, but if no one does, nothing will move forward

Absolutely correct!

I would be thrilled if HD DVD won, vs. DVD!
post #6107 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by theforce8686 View Post

the PS2 has sold 35 million units to date. Where do you think most of them are gonna turn for upgrades on their system?

Hard to say, since Sony's still dumping cash into producing it.

If you can't win one generation's war, might as well win the last one.
post #6108 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

It's called half off that started today.

Sounds like liquidation sale. Is Amazon getting out of Blu-ray ?
post #6109 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sketcha View Post

I think you're right.

No one has refuted the points made here about the Amir/codec debacle. I believe the point is made. No need to...

Nobody's refuting it simply because we want peace. But if you want me to address it, I certainly will, and hopefully I can do it in a non-inflammatory way.

The fact is, there is a small group of people that have an unhealthy obsession with Amir. He is their white whale, and they are pursuing him to the end's of the earth with their smear campaign. To them, no matter what Amir does, it's always seen as duplicitous and deceitful.

It's not just that they characterize him this way, it's far more than that. They have an anti-Amir filter that colors their world view. But it's important to note that every time they feed their obsession, they believe they are doing the right thing. I think it's important to point out they they truly believe what they are doing is right. Further, these are not bad people, some of them I have a great deal of respect for. But they have a severe anti-Amir bias that distorts everything they think about what Amir writes.

In this instance, a person asked Amir to compare codecs. So he writes a rather long and technical response, pointing out the difference between codecs, and why he thinks his codec is at an advantage.

During the course of that long and technical explanation, he appears to have misstated one of the technical differences. He said that AVC can't do 1 pixel something-or-another, when he should have said that a compressionist can't force AVC to do 1 pixel something-or-another. So there is a difference between the codecs, but his explanation wasn't 100% accurate.

Now the people with the anti-Amir world view, (again, some of which I highly respect), they see this as a sure sign of treachery. They believe it's impossible for him to have simply misspoke here. If he didn't get every single detail right in an off the cuff technical discussion of the two codecs, its a sure sign that Amir is lying.

Other people look at this and think it was a detail that wasn't exactly correct, but that's understandable considering how technical the discussion is. At any rate, why would he post something he knew not to be true, when he knew that other experts were reading it? Even if you don't think he is honest, surely you think he is smart. Why would he set himself up like that?

The most likely answer is that it wasn't a big deal, he made a small misstatement, and someone else corrected it. Now if you are predisposed to assassinate Amir's character, you won't view the event this way. If you are a bit more objective, you can see that is the most likely explanation.

This example, to me, is more about the Amir stalkers than it is about Amir. I can easily see how a person discussing something so complex as the difference between codecs could make a misstatement. So that doesn't surprise me. What is more interesting is the reaction to it.

Once again, I want to point out that these people that are obsessed with Amir, they are not bad people. Many of them I otherwise respect. But their focus on Amir, and the distorted way they interpret everything he does, it just isn't healthy.
post #6110 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

Sounds like liquidation sale. Is Amazon getting out of Blu-ray ?

Posted by another HD-DVD fan,


"There is a HD DVD equivalent of the Amazon Blu-ray sale, only the HD DVDs are free rather than 1/2 price and hence don't figure in DVD sales statistics.

"US purchasers of the Toshiba HD DVD players such as the A2 can get 5 free HD DVDs "


Sound like clearence of both then, but HD-DVD give them away
post #6111 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

Sounds like liquidation sale. Is Amazon getting out of Blu-ray ?

Yeah, because their clearly not selling like HD DVD.
post #6112 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

Sounds like liquidation sale. Is Amazon getting out of Blu-ray ?

Well HD DVD fanboys would certainly know what a liquidation sale sounds like. Sounds like a blowout sale to me.
post #6113 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan View Post

Now the people with the anti-Amir world view, (again, some of which I highly respect), they see this as a sure sign of treachery. They believe it's impossible for him to have simply misspoke here. If he didn't get every single detail right in an off the cuff technical discussion of the two codecs, its a sure sign that Amir is lying.

......and the only people who would fully comprehend the difference; those who's opinion might potentially be swayed by such minute technical distinctions, are other individuals with a similar level of expertise who would recognize his error anyway. Accusing him of deliberate deception, and or "disparagement" is the very definition of irony.
post #6114 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan View Post

Nobody's refuting it simply because we want peace. But if you want me to address it, I certainly will, and hopefully I can do it in a non-inflammatory way.

And you did an excellent job as usual, skogan. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan View Post

The fact is, there is a small group of people that have an unhealthy obsession with Amir. He is their white whale, and they are pursuing him to the end's of the earth with their smear campaign. To them, no matter what Amir does, it's always seen as duplicitous and deceitful.

It's not just that they characterize him this way, it's far more than that. They have an anti-Amir filter that colors their world view. But it's important to note that every time they feed their obsession, they believe they are doing the right thing. I think it's important to point out they they truly believe what they are doing is right. Further, these are not bad people, some of them I have a great deal of respect for. But they have a severe anti-Amir bias that distorts everything they think about what Amir writes.

I could see that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan View Post

In this instance, a person asked Amir to compare codecs. So he writes a rather long and technical response, pointing out the difference between codecs, and why he thinks his codec is at an advantage.

During the course of that long and technical explanation, he appears to have misstated one of the technical differences. He said that AVC can't do 1 pixel something-or-another, when he should have said that a compressionist can't force AVC to do 1 pixel something-or-another. So there is a difference between the codecs, but his explanation wasn't 100% accurate.

Sorry skogan, but his statement was more definitive than that.

Quote:


In no case does it go down to a single pixel as VC-1 does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan View Post

Other people look at this and think it was a detail that wasn't exactly correct, but that's understandable considering how technical the discussion is. At any rate, why would he post something he knew not to be true, when he knew that other experts were reading it? Even if you don't think he is honest, surely you think he is smart. Why would he set himself up like that?

I think he is both smart AND honest. I believe he did, simply misspeak. But I don't believe he copped to it. His clarification sounded more like damage control to me. Also, I'm going to ASSume that when you use the word "you," you were not referring to me. You may recall several of my previous posts on this, included some nice words for Amir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan View Post

The most likely answer is that it wasn't a big deal, he made a small misstatement, and someone else corrected it. Now if you are predisposed to assassinate Amir's character, you won't view the event this way. If you are a bit more objective, you can see that is the most likely explanation.

Again, I don't think it was intentional. What was intentional was the attempt to diminish the capabilities of his competition and further his own. In a public forum, IMO, that is a slippery slope. And you can see where it got him.

EDIT: And if you're going to speak on your competition's product in anything other than a positive manner, as an insider, with authority, you are going to be held to a higher standard than the rest of us... and you'd better be right!

And IMO, that's the way it SHOULD BE.

Otherwise you'd better check your sources or just decline to comment on the abilites of or lack thereof, your competition's product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan View Post

This example, to me, is more about the Amir stalkers than it is about Amir. I can easily see how a person discussing something so complex as the difference between codecs could make a misstatement. So that doesn't surprise me. What is more interesting is the reaction to it.

It was pretty gnarly. But a lot of this was about censorship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan View Post

Once again, I want to point out that these people that are obsessed with Amir, they are not bad people. Many of them I otherwise respect. But their focus on Amir, and the distorted way they interpret everything he does, it just isn't healthy.

Agreed.
post #6115 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

First off welcome to the forum and though I don't agree with your initial post for someone who already owned an Xbox 360 the HD DVD drive was the cheaper HD option. As for the chart it looks completely wrong and it was probably made a while ago. Also in general the Xbox 360 HD DVD drive is not going to be as big a factor as the PS3 in the format war because while the former requires an additional purchase while the latter requires none. This is one of the main factors why Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD 2 to 1 at the moment though the greater studio support that Blu-ray has compared to HD DVD helps as well.

I have a hard time with this logic. Since the add-on was an option I chose to buy it DID in fact only cost me 199.99 to enjoy hi-def movies...not 600. I could have easily bought a Toshiba...or even a PS3.
Second...saying the add-on may not be a factor is too soon for you to call. As time goes on more and more families will be owning HDTV's. There are already millions of xbox owners. When it comes time for them to decide if they want to purchase a hi-def player....who is to say they won't opt for the cheapest option available?

(Note:...my arguement lies with already existing 360 owners.) I know if you don't have a 360 now then it would be the same as purchasing a PS# but...as I said....10 million of us already had the box before the player came out. So to us....its an OPTION.)

By the way....thank you for the greeting. Intelligent dialogue is always welcome with me. (I do my best not to sound stupid...I really try...lolol.)
post #6116 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by rto View Post

......and the only people who would fully comprehend the difference; those who's opinion might potentially be swayed by such minute technical distinctions, are other individuals with a similar level of expertise who would recognize his error anyway. Accusing him of deliberate deception, and or "disparagement" is the very definition of irony.

Well you do have ME on your beloved "disparagement" rto, but, obviously you are referring to someone else on the "deliberate deception" issue.

BTW, did you ever come up with an alternative word or phrase?

I definitely feel he fortuitously made a false statement, while attempting to diminish the abilities of his competition's product to thereby further the abilities of his own.

Did you find a better word for that yet?
post #6117 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sketcha View Post

Well you do have ME on your beloved "disparagement" rto, but, obviously you are referring to someone else on the "deliberate deception" issue.

BTW, did you ever come up with an alternative word or phrase?

I definitely feel he fortuitously made a false statement, while attempting to diminish the abilities of his competition's product to thereby further the abilities of his own.

Did you find a better word for that yet?

"beloved" lol

I copied this from post #5958, where I responded to your original request:

So, in this instance, I think your use of the term "disparagement" is wholly inappropriate. Perhaps it wouldn't be, in another illustration you might or might not care to provide. BTW, ( since you asked ) If I wasn't feeling charitable, I might suggest that Amir was guilty of attempting to obfuscate the capabilities of an alternative codec.......through a lack of sufficient specificity.
post #6118 of 6336
Would anyone have been shocked and dismayed by this putative, infinitesimally technical "shortcoming" of AVC? If left unchallenged, would hordes of Hi def obsessives have hurried home after work, to either put all of their AVC encoded discs on e-bay, or burn them en mass? If they'd actually made the awful error of viewing a disc encoded with AVC, would the only means of redeeming their honor have been seppuku with a dull plastic knife? How many lurkers or members really understood exactly and precisely WTF they were talking about, to begin with? This entire line of discussion has been much ado about nothing! IMHO, of course.
post #6119 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

Sounds like liquidation sale. Is Amazon getting out of Blu-ray ?

post #6120 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliga View Post

Interesting how a discussion of civil discourse leads you to an ad hominem attack on my personal values.

For someone who doesn't mind criticizing others you certainly did not take my comment well. I was simply saying that you seem more concerned with whether people are being polite than whether they are being honest. In my personal opinion honesty is more important than politeness. Just to make this perfectly clear I am just stating my personal opinion about that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliga View Post

I think that you and I are about as far apart on this subject as two people can be and I accept that. Why you decided to bring this topic back to the public forum after I went to some lengths to contact you privately about our differences is something of a mystery to me.

No offense but that PM you sent me was basically just a long rant against me which didn't ask me anything. Honestly I understand you don't like it when people question Amir and you have told me that time and time again. I know your opinions quite well and I just don't agree with them. That's all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliga View Post

You want to argue that I don't care enough about honesty.

No, I said that you seem to care more about people being polite than about people being honest. In my personal opinion, just my personal opinion, I think that honesty is more important that politeness.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliga View Post

History is littered with examples of people who tried to hide their misdeeds behind a cloak of virtue.

Exactly, though your probably thinking of this a lot differently than I am.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliga View Post

Your considerable posting record suggests to me that you routinely prize conflict and confrontation of a personal nature above all else.

For someone so civil you sure do make a lot of accusations and I am pretty sure that a comment like that one is against forum rules. Also you judge me unfairly if you really believe that about me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliga View Post

Have the last word if you must, but I won't be commenting on this particular subject again.

Thanks.
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