or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › HDTV Software Media Discussion › Format Battle General Discussion Thread: Discuss it here!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Format Battle General Discussion Thread: Discuss it here! - Page 26  

post #751 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

And that while the First-Gen Toshibas will handle HDi and networking, etc now and in the future, the first Gen BD players do not seem so well equipped as to handle the next two BD "specifications", BD-Video and BD-Live (which STILL do not include mandatory decoding of the DD+ and TruHD audio formats).

As has already been corrected, there is exactly one BD specification (which contains the BD-Video and BD-Live profiles). Further, all Blu-ray players must decode DTS-HD and TrueHD streams, though not necessarily losslessly. Note that there is no requirement that HD-DVD players provide lossless output of TrueHD streams, either, as evidenced by the Xbox 360 add-on which is incapable of outputting any lossless format (while all Blu-ray players can output lossless PCM, present in many Blu-ray discs).
post #752 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

Possibly, but there's also no commitment from Sony to add those features to the PS3. I think there's a good chance that they can, but they may decide it would erode the market for higher priced stand alone players and not implement them.

Don't confuse "no commitment" with "no public statement of support". Sony's got far too much at stake in Blu-ray's success for them to forsake the opportunity to ensure that the vast majority of Blu-ray players are BD-Live capable by not providing such support in the PS-3.

- Talk
post #753 of 6336
Quote:


More broadly, it's important to understand that WMVHD was an interim effort - HD DVD is now Microsoft's technology of choice for HD content on optical disc.

Two words came to mind when I read this... "Assimilation Complete"...

b2b
post #754 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Don't confuse "no commitment" with "no public statement of support". Sony's got far too much at stake in Blu-ray's success for them to forsake the opportunity to ensure that the vast majority of Blu-ray players are BD-Live capable by not providing such support in the PS-3.

- Talk

I agree with you Talk. They have a lot at stake and you would expect them to do it. This has also been a launch were Sony keeps finding ways to come up short. I will be asking the Sony folks about this at CES. I think it would be a good move for BD if Sony can come out and officially commit to delivering the full BD feature set on PS3.
post #755 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

As has already been corrected, there is exactly one BD specification (which contains the BD-Video and BD-Live profiles).

I think you are taking things too literally here. VC-1 spec is not included in BD specifications. Yet that format requires it. So from dictionary definition point of view, BD spec includes many specifications. As does HD DVD. So your statement is false at absolute and literal level.

However, and this is the point rdjam is making, is that within BDA's own defined specifications, there are segments which are not required by all players to support. As such, for a player to be compliant with the logo, they must be able to point to a single spec which they fully support. This then, must be different than the entire spec as otherwise, they are not compliant with the spec and could be subject to class action suits. Indeed, if there is a consumer suit on this, I suspect the first defense exhibit would be that there was more than one spec.


Quote:


Further, all Blu-ray players must decode DTS-HD and TrueHD streams, though not necessarily losslessly.

That is not technically correct. There is no "decoding" going on. Only de-multiplexing of the core stream from the whole. If they did do the decoding as you claim, they would be subject to patent fees for those technologies. And I am sure BDA folks are careful about that, per your earlier point on why they don't mandate decoding of any lossless codecs in their players to save on royalties.

The proper way to say it is that BDA requires that the core stream in DTS or TrueHD lossless to be played which is the same thing that happens in HD DVD players for DTS lossless (where as TrueHD is properly decoded in HD DVD players). Since the core lossy stream has the same quality as the current DVD Format, saying so doesn't win a lot of points with people who in some cases are paying over $1,000 for a player, hence the reason we don't try to spin it as you are in case of DTS HD lossless.

Quote:


Note that there is no requirement that HD-DVD players provide lossless output of TrueHD streams, either

Haven't we been here before? It is called freedom to innovate. Neither org mandates such things. Not even the BDA. Someone could build a BD player that only has composite video out and still be compliant. Does that mean that BD format does not require HD video decode then? As a funny example of this, when I was in UK, my brother which does custom installs in cars was in the process of hooking up a PS3 to the in-car LCD. You know the connection he was using? Yup, composite. That is the only input the display has and the customer didn't care, as long as he could brag that there was a PS3 in that car! So hopefully you are not going to send the quality police after him.
post #756 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 View Post

You forget that I'm an insider...

That is because you have not declared as such in your sig.

You should contact the mods saying you are an insider and disclose that in your sig. That is the AVS rule and has been repeatedly posted by the mods in the insider thread.
post #757 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

If so than based on that logic would you agree that for many people the Xbox 360 wasn't available until 2006?

Yes, 360 was not available for me to buy in 2005. Infact I could get hold of one only in April (since I didn't try hard enough earlier). Lack of easy/general availability of 360 in 2005 is no secret and we (at MS) have never shied away from aceepting that as such.
post #758 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

As Dr1394 said, BD-Video profile becomes more strict as of 6/07.
There are two concepts - persistent storage (for bookmarks and such) and local storage (for downloaded A/V, updated disc contents, etc.). According to this FAQ, as of 6/07 BD-Video players must have 256MB of local storage while BD-Live players must have 1GB. Note that the PS3's clearly meet this requirement since they have a minimum 20GB hard drive.
Nope. BD-Live players must support all features including PiP.

- Talk

Thanks Talk.

So, any comments about the part of my question asking what the "other" players are called after 6/07? Are they "Less Strict BD-Video?" after that date? What are they today?


So you had said that Net connectivity was the BD-Live requirement. So it is addiditional "Local Storage" as well.

Thanks.
post #759 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

Now that 2006 is coming to an end ... does anyone know the exact #of movies released in HD DVD & BD ? May be we should get a US only count and a WW count ...

My movie release list is certainly subject to error but its the most compiled stats I've found as far as being able to show exactly what has been counted in order for others to point out where a mistake might be or not.

Anyway what I have totaled in the lists as being released at the ending of 2006 is:

HD DVD - 160
Blu-Ray - 133

I will list below what has been counted and anyone is free to point out any mistakes they may see

HD DVD

1 * April 18, 2006 Last Samurai, The
2 * April 20, 2006 Million Dollar Baby
3 * April 18, 2006 Phantom of the Opera, The (2004)
4 * April 18, 2006 Serenity
5 * April 25, 2006 Apollo 13
6 * April 25, 2006 Doom
7 * May 2, 2006 Goodfellas
8 * May 2, 2006 Swordfish
9 * May 9, 2006 Assault On Precinct 13 (2005)
10 * May 9, 2006 Cinderella Man
11 * May 9, 2006 Jarhead
12 * May 9, 2006 Rumor Has It... (Combo)
13 * May 9, 2006 Training Day
14 * May 16, 2006 Full Metal Jacket
15 * May 16, 2006 Unforgiven
16 * May 23, 2006 Blazing Saddles
17 * May 23, 2006 Bourne Supremacy, The
18 * May 23, 2006 Chronicles Of Riddick, The: Unrated Director's Cut
19 * May 23, 2006 Fugitive, The
20 * May 23, 2006 U-571
21 * May 23, 2006 Van Helsing
22 * June 6, 2006 Constantine
23 * June 6, 2006 Firewall (Combo)
24 * June 6, 2006 View From Space
25 * June 6, 2006 Perfect Storm, The
26 * June 13, 2006 16 Blocks (Combo)
27 * June 13, 2006 Happy Gilmore
28 * June 13, 2006 Rundown, The
29 * June 20, 2006 Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (Combo)
30 * June 20, 2006 Syriana
31 * June 27, 2006 Guitarscape Planet
32 * June 27, 2006 Lethal Weapon
33 * July 4, 2006 Best of GetOut Vol. 1
34 * July 4, 2006 Best of GetOut Vol. 2
35 * July 4, 2006 Best of HD W. Rep. Vol 1
36 * July 4, 2006 Best of HD W. Rep. Vol 2
37 * July 4, 2006 World Extreme Cagefighting: Unfinished Business 2
38 * July 11, 2006 Dukes of Hazzard, The
39 * July 11, 2006 Enter the Dragon
40 * July 11, 2006 Friday Night Lights
41 * July 11, 2006 Pitch Black
42 * July 18, 2006 ATL (Combo)
43 * July 25, 2006 Lara Croft: Tomb Raider
44 * July 25, 2006 Sahara
45 * July 25, 2006 Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
46 * July 25, 2006 Sleepy Hollow
47 * August 1, 2006 Four Brothers
48 * August 1, 2006 Good Night and Good Luck (Combo)
49 * August 1, 2006 Manchurian Candidate, The
50 * August 1, 2006 We Were Soldiers
51 * August 8, 2006 Italian Job, The
52 * August 8, 2006 U2: Rattle & Hum Unleashed (Combo)
53 * August 8, 2006 Aeon Flux
54 * August 15, 2006 Animal House (Combo)
55 * August 15, 2006 Unleashed
56 * August 15, 2006 Ray
57 * August 22, 2006 Bone Collector, The
58 * August 22, 2006 Caddyshack
59 * August 22, 2006 Searchers
60 * August 22, 2006 Spy Game
61 * September 12, 2006 Red Dragon
62 * September 12, 2006 Seabiscuit
63 * September 12, 2006 Traffic
64 * September 12, 2006 House of Wax
65 * September 12, 2006 Space Cowboys
66 * September 12, 2006 Troy
67 * September 12, 2006 Lethal Weapon 2
68 * September 12, 2006 That's the Way of the World
69 * September 19, 2006 Backdraft
70 * September 19, 2006 Dazed And Confused (Combo)
71 * September 19, 2006 End Of Days
72 * September 19, 2006 Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
73 * September 26, 2006 2 Fast 2 Furious
74 * September 26, 2006 Fast And The Furious, The
75 * September 26, 2006 Fast and the Furious, The: Tokyo Drift
76 * September 26, 2006 Adventures of Robin Hood, The
77 * September 26, 2006 Dirty Dozen, The
78 * September 26, 2006 Grand Prix
79 * September 26, 2006 Lake House, The 98 min
80 * September 26, 2006 Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines
81 * September 26, 2006 Land of the Dead
82 * September 26, 2006 Sister Street Fighter
83 * October 3, 2006 New Orleans Concert
84 * October 3, 2006 Pat Metheny Goup: Way Up
85 * October 10, 2006 Army of Darkness
86 * October 10, 2006 Batman Begins
87 * October 10, 2006 Charlie & the Chocolate Factory
88 * October 10, 2006 The Corpse Bride
89 * October 10, 2006 Fast Times at Ridgemont
90 * October 10, 2006 Waist Deep
91 * October 10, 2006 Polar Express
92 * October 10, 2006 Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory
93 * October 17, 2006 Break-Up, The
94 * October 24, 2006 12 Monkeys
95 * October 24, 2006 Interpreter
96 * October 24, 2006 Out of Sight
97 * October 24, 2006 Slither
98 * October 24, 2006 Thing, The 109 Min
99 * October 24, 2006 Spartacus
100 * October 24, 2006 Nacho Libre
101 * October 30, 2006 Mission: Impossible III - 2 disk collectors edition
102 * October 30, 2006 Mission: Impossible III - Ultimate Missions Collection
103 * October 31, 2006 Antarctica Dreaming
104 * October 31, 2006 Fireplace: Visions of Tr.
105 * October 31, 2006 Visions of the Sea: Expl
106 * October 31, 2006 Exotic Saltwater Aquarium
107 * October 31, 2006 Excalibur
108 * October 31, 2006 Under Siege
109 * October 31, 2006 V for Vendetta
110 * November 1, 2006 One Six Right: The Romance of Flying
111 * November 7, 2006 Barry Manilow Live
112 * November 7, 2006 Chicago & Earth, Wind & Fire
113 * November 7, 2006 Heart: Alive in Seattle
114 * November 7, 2006 Reds
115 * November 14, 2006 Cream: Royal Albert Hall
116 * November 14, 2006 The Eagles
117 * November 14, 2006 King Kong
118 * November 14, 2006 James Taylor: A Musicares Person of the Year
119 * November 14, 2006 Waterworld
120 * November 14, 2006 HD Window - Hawaii
121 * November 14, 2006 HD Window - The Great Southwest
122 * November 14, 2006 Serenity: The Southern Seas
123 * November 14, 2006 Accepted
124 * November 14, 2006 Stained Glass Christmas With Heavenly Carols
125 * November 14, 2006 Casablanca
126 * November 14, 2006 Forbidden Planet
127 * November 14, 2006 Forbidden Planet (Ultimate Collectors Edition)
128 * November 14, 2006 Mutiny on the Bounty
129 * November 21, 2006 Dr. Seuss How the Grinch Stole Christmas
130 * November 21, 2006 You, Me & Dupree
131 * November 28, 2006 An American Werewolf in London
132 * November 28, 2006 Dune
133 * November 28, 2006 Meet the Parents
134 * November 28, 2006 The Mummy
135 * November 28, 2006 Superman: The Movie
136 * November 28, 2006 Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut
137 * November 28, 2006 Superman Returns
138 * November 28, 2006 Smallville Season 5
139 * November 28, 2006 The Ant Bully
140 * November 28, 2006 Chronos
141 * December 5, 2006 Deraild
142 * December 5, 2006 Miami Vice
143 * December 5, 2006 Wolf Creek
144 * December 5, 2006 Scarey Movie 4
145 * December 5, 2006 National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation
146 * December 5, 2006 A Christmas Story
147 * December 5, 2006 The Architect
148 * December 12, 2006 The Hulk
149 * December 12, 2006 Field of Dreams
150 * December 12, 2006 DOA: Dead or Alive
151 * December 12, 2006 World Trade Center
152 * December 15, 2006 Pulse
153 * December 15, 2006 The Matador
154 * December 19, 2006 Casino
155 * December 19, 2006 The Scorpion King
156 * December 19, 2006 Fearless
157 * December 19, 2006 The Lady in the Water
158 * December 19, 2006 The Sopranos: Season Six, Part One
159 * December 26, 2006 The Breakfast Club
160 * December 26, 2006 The Deer Hunter

Blu-Ray

1 20-Jun-06 Terminator
2 20-Jun-06 50 First Dates
3 20-Jun-06 Fifth Element
4 20-Jun-06 Hitch
5 20-Jun-06 House of Flying Daggers
6 20-Jun-06 Underworld: Evolution
7 20-Jun-06 xXx
8 27-Jun-06 Crash
9 27-Jun-06 Lord of War
10 27-Jun-06 Punisher
11 27-Jun-06 Saw
12 27-Jun-06 Terminator 2: Judgment Day
13 27-Jun-06 Last Waltz
14 27-Jun-06 Ultraviolet
15 11-Jul-06 Basic Instinct 2
16 18-Jul-06 A View from Space With Heavenly Music
17 25-Jul-06 Species
18 25-Jul-06 Benchwarmers
19 25-Jul-06 Stealth
20 1-Aug-06 Good Night, and Good Luck
21 1-Aug-06 Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
22 1-Aug-06 Rumor Has It
23 1-Aug-06 Training Day
24 15-Aug-06 Into the Blue
25 15-Aug-06 Memento
26 15-Aug-06 RV
27 22-Aug-06 Silent Hill
28 28-Aug-06 Stir of Echoes
29 29-Aug-06 Devil's Rejects
30 29-Aug-06 Stargate
31 29-Aug-06 Total Recall
32 5-Sep-06 Blazing Saddles
33 5-Sep-06 Firewall
34 5-Sep-06 Full Metal Jacket
35 5-Sep-06 Lethal Weapon
36 19-Sep-06 Dinosaur
37 19-Sep-06 Eight Below
38 19-Sep-06 Great Raid
39 19-Sep-06 Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
40 19-Sep-06 A Knight's Tale
41 19-Sep-06 Big Hit
42 19-Sep-06 S.W.A.T.
43 19-Sep-06 Tears of the Sun
44 26-Sep-06 Bubble
45 26-Sep-06 Four Brothers
46 26-Sep-06 Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
47 26-Sep-06 Sleepy Hollow
48 26-Sep-06 Tomb Raider
49 26-Sep-06 Fugitive
50 26-Sep-06 House of Wax
51 26-Sep-06 Lake House
52 26-Sep-06 Lethal Weapon 2
53 26-Sep-06 Space Cowboys
54 26-Sep-06 Swordfish
55 26-Sep-06 Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
56 3-Oct-06 John Legend - Live at the House of Blues
57 3-Oct-06 New Orleans Concert
58 10-Oct-06 Bikini Destinations: Triple Fantasy
59 10-Oct-06 Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room
60 10-Oct-06 HDNet Shuttle Discovery's Historic Mission
61 10-Oct-06 One Last Thing...
62 10-Oct-06 War Within
63 10-Oct-06 Aeon Flux
64 10-Oct-06 U2: Rattle and Hum
65 10-Oct-06 Click
66 10-Oct-06 16 Blocks
67 10-Oct-06 Syriana
68 17-Oct-06 Brothers Grimm
69 17-Oct-06 Dark Water
70 17-Oct-06 Glory Road
71 17-Oct-06 Gone in 60 Seconds
72 17-Oct-06 Haunted Mansion
73 24-Oct-06 Legends of Jazz: Showcase
74 24-Oct-06 Italian Job
75 24-Oct-06 Nacho Libre
76 24-Oct-06 Sahara
77 24-Oct-06 Monster House
78 30-Oct-06 Mission Impossible III
79 30-Oct-06 Mission Impossible III - Ultimate Collectors Set
80 31-Oct-06 Phantom of the Opera
81 31-Oct-06 Searchers
82 31-Oct-06 Under Siege
83 31-Oct-06 Unforgiven
84 31-Oct-06 Alice Cooper: Live in Montreux 2005
85 7-Nov-06 Reds
86 7-Nov-06 Little Man
87 14-Nov-06 Behind Enemy Lines
88 14-Nov-06 Fantastic Four
89 14-Nov-06 Kingdom of Heaven
90 14-Nov-06 Kiss of the Dragon
91 14-Nov-06 League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
92 14-Nov-06 Omen (666)
93 14-Nov-06 Speed
94 14-Nov-06 Transporter
95 14-Nov-06 Black Hawk Down
96 14-Nov-06 ATL
97 14-Nov-06 Last Samurai
98 14-Nov-06 Million Dollar Baby
99 14-Nov-06 X-Men The Last Stand
100 21-Nov-06 Annapolis
101 21-Nov-06 Enemy of the State
102 21-Nov-06 Goal! The Dream Begins
103 21-Nov-06 Sky High
104 21-Nov-06 Wild
105 21-Nov-06 Ice Age: The Meltdown
106 22-Nov-06 Blood: The Last Vampire
107 28-Nov-06 Windtalkers
108 28-Nov-06 Ant Bully
109 28-Nov-06 Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut
110 28-Nov-06 Superman Returns
111 28-Nov-06 Superman: The Movie
112 29-Nov-06 Guitarscape Planet
113 5-Dec-06 Flight of the Phoenix
114 5-Dec-06 Rising Sun
115 5-Dec-06 Architect
116 5-Dec-06 Bulletproof Monk
117 5-Dec-06 Rocky
118 5-Dec-06 A Christmas Story
119 5-Dec-06 National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation
120 12-Dec-06 Devil Wears Prada
121 12-Dec-06 World Trade Center
122 12-Dec-06 Kung Fu Hustle
123 12-Dec-06 Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby
124 12-Dec-06 Discovery Atlas: China Revealed
125 12-Dec-06 An American Classic
126 19-Dec-06 Invincible
127 19-Dec-06 Pearl Harbor
128 19-Dec-06 Sopranos: Season 6, Part 1
129 19-Dec-06 All the King's Men
130 19-Dec-06 Lady in the Water
131 19-Dec-06 Flightplan
132 26-Dec-06 Transporter 2
133 26-Dec-06 The Descent
post #760 of 6336
OK, time to look back and review sales figures from last year. First of all, please keep in mind that these numbers are estimates. We should have the actual numbers in a few weeks when Microsoft and Sony do their quarterly investor calls.

I am using numbers from http://nexgenwars.com/ and will also reference the numbers from http://www.vgcharts.org/. I've been tracking the nexgenwars numbers longer so I will start with those.

11/16
Xbox360 - Approx. 7,000,000
PS3 - 0

11/29
Xbox360 - 7,715,895
PS3 - 333,283

12/17
Xbox360 - 8,647,082
PS3 - 469,925

1/1
Xbox360 - 9,402,451
PS3 - 846,965
Wii - 2,174,048

Microsoft was predicting 10 million Xbox360's sold by the end of this year. Both sites show them coming up a little short (more so on vgcharts than nexgen). Sony was predicting 2 million PS3s by the end of this year as recently as 12/14/06.

Sony is sticking to its target of shipping 2 million PlayStation 3 consoles by the end of the calendar year

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/tech/...tm?chan=search

Both sites show them falling short by significant margins (vgcharts shows 1.21 million PS3s sold in 2006). Here is the stunning element to this miss by Sony. They were not trying to make a sales prediction (as was Microsoft), they were trying to make a manufacturing prediction. PS3 continues to be supply constrained, and Sony continues to sell every box made. Being so wrong in corporate statements to investors regarding manufacturing output of a product for 2006 going into the last two weeks of the year seems like either complete incompetence or dishonesty. I would be surprised not to see legal action by investors against Sony as a result of this.

As for the console war, I've already predicted that the PS3 will not be the dominant console in this round.....here's why. In the period from the PS3 launch to the end of the year, the PS3 sold about 850K or 1.21M units depending on who's numbers you use. During this same critical Christmas buying period, Xbox360 sold 2.5 million or 3 million units, depending on who's numbers you use (the Wii tallied in at a similar 2.2 or 3.5 million number).

The PS2 came early to the party and built up a dominant base in the last round before Xbox and Gamecube came to market. PS3 came a year after the Xbox360 and has to sell in bigger volumes than Xbox360 to catch and pass it. Instead it is selling in smaller quantities. The lead for Xbox360 is growing bigger. The current installed base for Xbox360 according to vgcharts stands at 7.9 million and according to nexgenwars stands at 9.4 million. Either way, this is a big gap to close. To further complicate things for Sony, the blue laser shortage that has been holding back PS3 production is not an easily solved manufacturing problem. At the end of December Sony was claiming again that they had solved their production problems. I continue to be skeptical about this news. Sony has every reason to hide their continued supply constraint on blue lasers, and I believe that is exactly what they're doing.

There are those who feel that the massive numbers of PS2 owners will stay loyal and wait to get their hands on a PS3. I would like to point out that supply constraints and high prices are not a good scenario for migrating your customer base to a new platform. It is in fact a recipe for mass defection to a lower priced and more readily available competing product.

So how bad is the manufacturing constraint? Here are some clues. Whether you've been looking at vg or nexgen, something you may have noticed is that there was a large shipment of PS3s that hit the street right before Christmas. Though the two sites show different overall numbers for PS3, they showed the same jump as a result of this shipment. It was about 350k-400k of units.

I believe that Sony built up inventory ahead of the launch and sent every unit they had out to market. We saw the numbers on both sites spike up at launch and then taper off as they all found homes. About 5 weeks later we see the second pop taking sales numbers to their current level. Based on these numbers, it looks like Sony's PS3 manufacturing capacity is possibly 5 million for 2007. Business week is saying Sony can make 7 million PS3 in 2007.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...228_090512.htm

In the following year, Sony will likely ship another 11 million PS2s vs. 7 million PS3s, according to research by rating agency Standard & Poor's (MHP).

I believe Businessweek is overly optimistic, but even if Sony can produce 7 million PS3s this year, it won't be enough to catch Xbox360. I believe it won't be enough to even keep pace with it. If Xbox360 emerges as the next dominant platform, it will experience an acceleration of sales as customers migrate from PS2.

I won't go into all of the details of the numbers in the Japanese market, but there you will see Wii emerge as the next dominant console. VGcharts.org is particularly detailed for sales data in Japan. If you review the numbers, you'll see the story is equally compelling.

I'll post later on how this all translates to impact on the format war.
post #761 of 6336
how many exclusive on bd and how many on hd dvd?
post #762 of 6336
^ Ben good question. The #s vary week to week. Many neutral studios support more of their titles in HD DVD. I believe it's because they can more easily replicate them on HD DVD till BD50 becomes more available for more replicators to produce with reliable yields.
-Robert
post #763 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

how many exclusive on bd and how many on hd dvd?

Based on my release calendar it's 93 exclusive titles for HD DVD and 80 for BD:

1. 12 Monkeys
2. 2 Fast 2 Furious
3. Accepted
4. Adventures of Robin Hood
5. American Werewolf in Lon.
6. Animal House
7. Apollo 13
8. Army of Darkness
9. Assault on Precinct 13
10. Backdraft
11. Batman Begins
12. Best of GetOut! Vol. 1
13. Best of GetOut! Vol. 2
14. Best of HD W. Rep. Vol. 1
15. Best of HD W. Rep. Vol. 2
16. Bone Collector
17. Bourne Supremacy
18. Breakfast Club
19. Break-Up
20. Caddyshack
21. Casablanca
22. Casino
23. Charlie & Chocolate Fact
24. Chicago/Earth Wind & Fire
25. Chronicles of Riddick
26. Chronos
27. Cinderella Man
28. Constantine
29. Cream: Royal Albert Hall
30. Dazed and Confused
31. Deer Hunter
32. Derailed
33. Dirty Dozen
34. Doom
35. Dukes of Hazzard
36. Dune
37. Eagles: Farewell Tour 1
38. End of Days
39. Enter the Dragon
40. Excalibur
41. F & F: Tokyo Drift
42. Fast & the Furious
43. Fast Times at Ridgemont
44. Fear & Loathing in Vegas
45. Field of Dreams
46. Forbidden Planet
47. Friday Night Lights
48. Grand Prix
49. Happy Gilmore
50. Heart: Alive in Seattle
51. How the Grinch Stole Xmas
52. Hulk
53. Interpreter
54. James Taylor: Musicares
55. Jarhead
56. Jet Li's Fearless
57. King Kong
58. Land of the Dead
59. Manilow Live!
60. Matador
61. Meet the Parents
62. Miami Vice
63. Mummy (1999)
64. Mutiny on the Bounty
65. One Six Right
66. Out of Sight
67. Perfect Storm
68. Pitch Black
69. Polar Express
70. Ray
71. Red Dragon
72. Rundown
73. Scary Movie 4
74. Scorpion King
75. Seabiscuit
76. Serenity
77. Slither
78. Smallville: Fifth Season
79. Spartacus
80. Spy Game
81. Terminator 3
82. Thing, The
83. Traffic
84. Troy
85. U-571
86. Unleashed
87. V for Vendetta
88. Van Helsing
89. Waist Deep
90. Waterworld
91. Willy Wonka & Chocolate F
92. Wolf Creek
93. You, Me and Dupree

Blu-ray:

1. 50 First Dates
2. All the King's Men
3. Annapolis
4. Basic Instinct 2
5. Behind Enemy Lines
6. Benchwarmers
7. Big Hit
8. Bikini Dest.: Triple F.
9. Black Hawk Down
10. Brothers Grimm
11. Bubble
12. Bulletproof Monk
13. Click
14. Crash
15. Dark Water
16. Descent
17. Devil Wears Prada
18. Devil's Rejects
19. Dinosaur
20. Eight Below
21. Enemy of the State
22. Enron: the Smartest Guys
23. Fantastic Four
24. Flight of the Phoenix
25. Flightplan
26. Glory Road
27. Goal!: The Dream Begins
28. Gone in 60 Seconds
29. Great Raid
30. Haunted Mansion
31. HDNet: Shuttle Discovery
32. Hitch
33. House of Flying Daggers
34. Ice Age: The Meltdown
35. Into the Blue
36. Invincible
37. Jay & Silent Bob Strike B
38. Kingdom of Heaven DC
39. Kiss of the Dragon
40. Knight's Tale
41. Kung Fu Hustle
42. Last Waltz
43. League of Extraordinary G
44. Legends of Jazz Showcase
45. Little Man
46. Lord of War
47. Memento
48. Monster House
49. Omen (666)
50. One Last Thing
51. Pearl Harbor
52. Rising Sun
53. Rocky
54. RV
55. S.W.A.T.
56. Saw
57. Silent Hill
58. Sky High
59. Species
60. Speed
61. Stargate
62. Stealth
63. Stir of Echoes
64. Talladega Nights (U)
65. Tears of the Sun
66. Terminator 2
67. Terminator
68. The Fifth Element
69. The Punisher
70. Tony Bennett:American Cl.
71. Total Recall
72. Transporter 2
73. Transporter
74. Ultraviolet
75. Underworld: Evolution
76. War Within
77. Wild, The
78. Windtalkers
79. X-Men: The Last Stand
80. xXx


'Common' titles:

1. 16 Blocks
2. Aeon Flux
3. Ant Bully
4. Architect
5. ATL, The
6. Blazing Saddles
7. Christmas Story
8. Corpse Bride
9. Firewall
10. Four Brothers
11. Fugitive, The
12. Full Metal Jacket
13. Good Night and Good Luck
14. Goodfellas
15. Guitarscape Planet
16. House of Wax (2005)
17. Italian Job
18. Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang
19. Lady in the Water
20. Lake House
21. Lara Croft: Tomb Raider
22. Last Samurai
23. Lethal Weapon 2
24. Lethal Weapon
25. Manchurian Candidate
26. Million Dollar Baby
27. Mission: Impossible Coll.
28. Mission: Impossible III
29. Nacho Libre
30. Nat. Lampoon's Xmas Vac
31. New Orleans Concert
32. Pat Metheny Group: Way Up
33. Phantom of the Opera
34. Reds
35. Rumor Has It
36. Sahara
37. Searchers
38. Sky Captain & the World
39. Sleepy Hollow
40. Sopranos Season 6 Part 1
41. Space Cowboys
42. Superman II: Donner Cut
43. Superman Returns
44. Superman: The Movie
45. Swordfish
46. Syriana
47. Training Day
48. U2: Rattle and Hum
49. Under Siege
50. Unforgiven
51. View from Space...
52. We Were Soldiers
53. World Trade Center

Note there is a slight inaccuracy on this list as regards 2006 titles, because some titles have launched in 2006 on one format and have been announced on the other for 2007.
post #764 of 6336
Cripe, now I'll have to update my sticky thread again. on the AFI Top 200 and the Top grossing movies of all time

great work Grubert.


I am becoming more and more of the opinion that both formats are starting to have enough released movies available, that to most normal people, there will be enough to justify getting into the format.

Cost of entry and availability of the players will be the factors holding back adoption. When both the HD A2 , the Xbox 360 add on and the PS3 are readily in distribution more people will buy them. When the street prices of these and the other standalone players drop more people will buy them.

I think price and availability will quickly mean more to people than movie selection. One or two hundred movies on a shelf can look like a format that has some studio support and most people won't watch that many movies in a year.
post #765 of 6336
2Channel,

There are many people in the PS3 threads that feel supply has now caught up with demand for the PS3. They are saying that, as of the last few days, in most areas of the country there are PS3 sitting on the shelves now. One poster said that itracker, a program which tracks PS3 shipments, indicates about 50% of the stores that carry the PS3 now have one in stock. It had been around 2%-5% before Christmas. Also, it is reported that one can order online from well known sourses such as walmart.com and get one within a week.

While I was initially reluctant to believe it, there is enough evidence building up to suggest that is the case. As Cpanther put it, supply may not have met demand, but it looks like demand is about to meet supply.
post #766 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by skogan View Post

2Channel,

There are many people in the PS3 threads that feel supply has now caught up with demand for the PS3. They are saying that, as of the last few days, in most areas of the country there are PS3 sitting on the shelves now. One poster said that itracker, a program which tracks PS3 shipments, indicates about 50% of the stores that carry the PS3 now have one in stock. It had been around 2%-5% before Christmas. Also, it is reported that one can order online from well known sourses such as walmart.com and get one within a week.

While I was initially reluctant to believe it, there is enough evidence building up to suggest that is the case. As Cpanther put it, supply may not have met demand, but it looks like demand is about to meet supply.

I just checked Amazon, Walmart and Target. None of them have the PS3 available at list price. If manufacturing supply stays steady and demand slacks off enough, they may become more readily available, but that would be a large reduction of demand.

While all this is going on, Sony is trying to build up a little excess inventory for the EU launch in March. I believe the rumors are correct and the EU launch will have to be pushed back.
post #767 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

I am becoming more and more of the opinion that both formats are starting to have enough released movies available, that to most normal people, there will be enough to justify getting into the format.

I had the opposite reaction: I was somewhat disappointed. I'd not looked in a while, but just now I counted the must-haves for me on each format: 9 on HD DVD, 6 on Blu-ray (some were on both). Neither number is terribly compelling, let alone sway me to one side or the other, and my decision to wait has never looked smarter (to me). Maybe I'm just too picky; perhaps 2007 will be a good enough year to suck me in.
post #768 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael View Post

I had the opposite reaction: I was somewhat disappointed. I'd not looked in a while, but just now I counted the must-haves for me on each format: 9 on HD DVD, 6 on Blu-ray (some were on both). Neither number is terribly compelling, let alone sway me to one side or the other, and my decision to wait has never looked smarter (to me). Maybe I'm just too picky; perhaps 2007 will be a good enough year to suck me in.

That is a fair opinion, standing on the outside, looking in. For those of us who own the thing though, we get amazing satisfaction from movies we never thought we would want to watch. The total experience it seems, goes beyond the storyline and acting. It includes the smile on your face when you see the amazing picture and sound.

Great A/V quality seems to push an average movie into something you want to own. But I am sure not everyone agrees....
post #769 of 6336
I'm not going to watch a movie just because it has good PQ, any more than I will watch CSI crap.

Plus you know most of these early editions are going to be supplanted by "special editions" which might include actual extra content in HD, not to mention better use of new audio formats.
post #770 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

That is a fair opinion, standing on the outside, looking in. For those of us who own the thing though, we get amazing satisfaction from movies we never thought we would want to watch. The total experience it seems, goes beyond the storyline and acting. It includes the smile on your face when you see the amazing picture and sound.

Great A/V quality seems to push an average movie into something you want to own. But I am sure not everyone agrees....

Excellent post and my sentiments exactly. I just sit there with this grin with the video particularly. The improvement in the total experience has jumped significantly for me.

I've been watching HDDVD for over eight months and during that time have enjoyed my theater more than I ever have. The players and titles are cheap in any kind of historic comparison .Waiting just seems like some sort of self imposed exile from the party to me.

Art
post #771 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

The players and titles are cheap in any kind of historic comparison .Waiting just seems like some sort of self imposed exile from the party to me.

These types of comments typify how out of touch this community is from the joe six packs out there. The idea of even spending $100 on a player and $20 on movies that might not continue to be supported if the chosen format loses is simply unacceptable to a large portion of the population.
post #772 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

I just checked Amazon, Walmart and Target. None of them have the PS3 available at list price. If manufacturing supply stays steady and demand slacks off enough, they may become more readily available, but that would be a large reduction of demand.

While all this is going on, Sony is trying to build up a little excess inventory for the EU launch in March. I believe the rumors are correct and the EU launch will have to be pushed back.

. Amazon had list price PS3's available for a short time a couple of days back when they received fresh shipment. They are out of stock again. They listed a window of a few hours. I didn't check it during that time personally.
. Walmart and Toys'R'Us are selling bundles (in stock). Although you can't buy consoles alone, I think these are kind of list prices -- albeit without choice.

Other than this, many over other forums have reported seeing PS3's sitting on shelves in several areas.

Don't know if demand has slowed down or the supply has caught up. I guess a bit of both.
post #773 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Excellent post and my sentiments exactly. I just sit there with this grin with the video particularly. The improvement in the total experience has jumped significantly for me.

I've been watching HDDVD for over eight months and during that time have enjoyed my theater more than I ever have. The players and titles are cheap in any kind of historic comparison .Waiting just seems like some sort of self imposed exile from the party to me.

Art


100% agreement. Since I have jumped on the HD (HD DVD and Blu Ray) bandwagons the theater has been going overtime. Even well loved/viewed titles bring a fresh perspective in HD.

Happy New Year

John
post #774 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Zuber View Post

These types of comments typify how out of touch this community is from the joe six packs out there. The idea of even spending $100 on a player and $20 on movies that might not continue to be supported if the chosen format loses is simply unacceptable to a large portion of the population.

This wasn't about "joe six pack." It was about people crazy enough about this technology, to spend their new year's day here . For them, it makes perfect sense.

My cable bill tips the scale at almost $100/month btw. And I don't get to keep any of that content past the time my DVR gets full. Compared to that, HD DVD is much more permanent and has better A/V quality to boot, regardless of what spin you put its longivity.
post #775 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Zuber View Post

These types of comments typify how out of touch this community is from the joe six packs out there. The idea of even spending $100 on a player and $20 on movies that might not continue to be supported if the chosen format loses is simply unacceptable to a large portion of the population.

I think almost nobody who has a HDTV would have a problem spending $100 on a hi-def player, even a player that would be obsolete in a couple of years. Almost all of them have between a minor and a major problem spending $1000+ on a player. As for the cost of movies, there's always Netflix and video rentals, whether or not the format becomes obsolete.
post #776 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Channel View Post

I just checked Amazon, Walmart and Target. None of them have the PS3 available at list price. If manufacturing supply stays steady and demand slacks off enough, they may become more readily available, but that would be a large reduction of demand.

While all this is going on, Sony is trying to build up a little excess inventory for the EU launch in March. I believe the rumors are correct and the EU launch will have to be pushed back.

I was at a Walmart in Methuen, MA yesterday and today and they had a number (i.e., at least 5-10 of EACH, 20gb and 60gb versions)...they also had the blu-ray remote available. They were sitting on the shelf when I was in there yesterday and then when I went back this afternoon they were still sitting there.

I'll be checking around my neighborhoods at work in NYC and at home to see availability in the BB stores. But they certainly seem to be available and surprisingly, at least at that one Walmart, sitting idle on the shelf.
post #777 of 6336
It's been alluded to before - low delivery levels due to a "technical reason" will mask a lack of demand; lower subsidy losses and thus minimize shareholder fury
post #778 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

However, and this is the point rdjam is making, is that within BDA's own defined specifications, there are segments which are not required by all players to support. As such, for a player to be compliant with the logo, they must be able to point to a single spec which they fully support. This then, must be different than the entire spec as otherwise, they are not compliant with the spec and could be subject to class action suits. Indeed, if there is a consumer suit on this, I suspect the first defense exhibit would be that there was more than one spec.

How are HD-DVD "Peformance Levels" going to be any different? And before you answer, talk to Kilroy and find out what HD-DVD Performance Levels really are about, because it seems from your posts that you don't currently.

Ron
post #779 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdragon View Post

. Amazon had list price PS3's available for a short time a couple of days back when they received fresh shipment. They are out of stock again. They listed a window of a few hours. I didn't check it during that time personally.
. Walmart and Toys'R'Us are selling bundles (in stock). Although you can't buy consoles alone, I think these are kind of list prices -- albeit without choice.

Other than this, many over other forums have reported seeing PS3's sitting on shelves in several areas.

Don't know if demand has slowed down or the supply has caught up. I guess a bit of both.

I understand the point you're making, as well as BenDover in regards to certains stores where he's seen them sit on the shelves for days or Amazon getting systems to sell from time to time. Let me try to clarify.

Because stores get units to sell, or units sit on the shelves for days, does not mean that they aren't in tight supply. Distribution is not perfect, and with local brick and mortars it is less so. On line outfits have a national reach and so they serve as a better indicator of the state of availabilty.

Here's a quick example. John in Boston wants a PS3. There are no PS3s available in his area. They come in from time to time, but they sell out quickly and he isn't spending hours on the internet tracking when and where the next shipment is showing up. Some PS3s may show up in a Walmart in Methuen, MA, but John doesn't realize it because there's no easy way for him to know they showed up there. There may not be enough demand for the PS3 right in Methuen to move those units off the shelf immediately, so they hang around a while. Eventually enough people come through Walmart and they sell the units through to happy buyers who may very well be surprised to actually find them there on the shelf.

Let's look at Amazon as a second example. John in Boston can easily pull up Amazon on his browser and see if they have PS3s. So can Tim in Chicago, Steve in Dallas, Bob in LA and Frank in NY. A product with insufficient supply to meet demand will sit on the shelves of Amazon for a much shorter time than a brick and mortar store.

So supply does come in from time to time and you see stores do things as described in the internal Best Buy memo below.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/28/ru...-new-year-ps3/

Or even worse they do mandatory bundles. Every Fry's add I've seen for the PS3 is a mandatory bundle priced at over $1,000. They know the unit is hard to find and they know they're not allowed to mark it up over list, so they'll make you buy a bunch of other stuff with your PS3 to take advantage of its limited availability.

When you can find the PS3 always available at list price on Amazon, you'll know the shortage is over and that supply is sufficient to meet demand.
post #780 of 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 View Post

How are HD-DVD "Peformance Levels" going to be any different? And before you answer, talk to Kilroy and find out what HD-DVD Performance Levels really are about, because it seems from your posts that you don't currently.

Ron

Since you seem to be an expert, why don't you tell us?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Software Media Discussion
This thread is locked  
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › HDTV Software Media Discussion › Format Battle General Discussion Thread: Discuss it here!