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Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 First End User Reports - OWNERS ONLY - Page 16

post #451 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckken View Post

Well that's actually my concern...The Sony and the Pioneer have the same specs in this regards, however the Sony does not allow for the added rear PCM + modes...I am actually referring to 5.1 with the receiver adding the extra rear channels via PCM + DD X THX or PCM + PLII X MV etc...I guess I will go down to Tweeter this week and pick up a Pioneer Elite and find out for myself...I will post back here my findings...

Well think about it. obviously no!
post #452 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviec View Post

Well think about it. obviously no!

I was hoping that since they are not totally identical that maybe The Pioneer does...That maybe they figured out the mistake on the Sony and corrected it on the Pioneer....It "is" possible. If it doesn't, I'll keep the Panny.
post #453 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

You have had a few responses from owners. Read through this
thread some more and you will find many saying we would only
give up our Pioneer Elite from our cold dead hands.

You don't find that sentiment from other products.

As for the ONE AND ONLY Blu-Ray Disc that does not play
as yet - see the post below.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9327743

Is it worth the MONEY - In my book it is THE ONLY Blu-Ray
Player to own - PERIOD.

Not surprising reading those responses from the consumers extremely loyal to the Pioneer Elite brand and willing to pay top dollar for a unit that has no advanced audio support.

When Pioneer comes out with the next generation player in a few short months that does provide audio support, the same loyal customers will sell the gen 1 player, taking several hundred dollars loss and pay a similar price again for the new Pioneer.

And don't worry, there won't be many lining up to try and pry the unit from your cold dead hands. Enjoy!
post #454 of 5157
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bferr1 View Post

chuckken, check the Pioneer's owner's manual. There is an audio chart somewhere in there that lists all the output options and configurations. I do believe that 7.1 PCM will be output as 7.1 PCM over HDMI. The manual can be downloaded at Pioneer's website.

That is correct - the Manual - Page 44 says if the DVD is
authored in 7.1 and your Surround Processor supports
7.1 - then 7.1 will be output over HDMI. A lot of conditions
need to be met before it happens.
post #455 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsf View Post

Not surprising reading those responses from the consumers extremely loyal to the Pioneer Elite brand and willing to pay top dollar for a unit that has no advanced audio support.

When Pioneer comes out with the next generation player in a few short months that does provide audio support, the same loyal customers will sell the gen 1 player, taking several hundred dollars loss and pay a similar price again for the new Pioneer.

And don't worry, there won't be many lining up to try and pry the unit from your cold dead hands. Enjoy!

The Pioneer is a great player...apparently you have not had a chance to view one yet! Not really sure why everyone is so hung up on advanced audio support...don't get me wrong, I hope Pioneer adds it with a future firmware update, but it definitely should not be the only factor people are worrying about with this player! Umcompressed PCM sounds awesome to me and the PQ on the Pioneer, speaks for itself when it is seen in person!

I could not care less if there is no line of people waiting to pry the player from my cold dead hands, because I am 100% satisfied and happy with it!
post #456 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMan34 View Post

Not really sure why everyone is so hung up on advanced audio support...

I can only speak for myself, but it would annoy me to no end to pay a premium price for a player that lacked premium features. Plus, I would buy with confidence if I knew definitively that Pioneer planned on keeping the player current in its features and capabilities by issuing firmware upgrades the way Toshiba did and Panasonic is going to do. So far, that looks like it's not the case.
post #457 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMan34 View Post

The Pioneer is a great player...apparently you have not had a chance to view one yet! Not really sure why everyone is so hung up on advanced audio support...don't get me wrong, I hope Pioneer adds it with a future firmware update, but it definitely should not be the only factor people are worrying about with this player! Umcompressed PCM sounds awesome to me and the PQ on the Pioneer, speaks for itself when it is seen in person!

I could not care less if there is no line of people waiting to pry the player from my cold dead hands, because I am 100% satisfied and happy with it!

That's what is great about the marketplace. To each his own.

I agree with bferr1. To me the audio is almost as important as the PQ, and it would really annoy me to pay the price of the Pioneer player and not have the support. I believe that without this audio capability, Pioneer sales will hurt. It seems to me that Pioneer is showing arrogance by putting out a unit, charging a premium price and not providing or stating a firm intention to provide the advanced audio inherent in Blu-ray.

So while I would not want to trash a unit other folks have purchased, and are enjoying based on their own standards, it is also somewhat annoying to hear people consider this unit as the second coming.
post #458 of 5157
JSF,

Where is all of this proof that Pioneer is not going to provide updates to decode the advanced codecs?

I haven't heard any kind of official announcement.
post #459 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by phansson View Post

JSF,

Where is all of this proof that Pioneer is not going to provide updates to decode the advanced codecs?

I haven't heard any kind of official announcement.

No proof that they won't but no indication that they will. If they do make an announcement that there will be a firmware update, then, of course, the situation would change.
post #460 of 5157
what is really weird is that most of the BD releases have a DTS-HD audio track in it !
but so far none of the players are able to handle this ... pretty lame for a format start ...
and I'm also disappointed that Pioneer comes up with an Elite player with no or little info about its audio features possibilities ...

this afternoon, I read an article in the Widescreen Review, the interview of Chris Walker and Don Eklund, and it's very confusing when it comes to the audio part ...

so let's say the PCM uncompressed audio track is kicking a$$, why bother putting DTS-HD audio track in BD releases ????

the way manufacturers and editors handle the BD stuff is really disturbing to me ... I don't have the same feeling about the hd-dvd guys.

and don't get me wrong, I'm not a hd-dvd pro ... I have both formats so far, I'm just curious to see how all this is going on, like a lot of ppl here i guess.
but maybe we'll know more at CES ?
post #461 of 5157
Quote:
what is really weird is that most of the BD releases have a DTS-HD audio track in it !
but so far none of the players are able to handle this ... pretty lame for a format start ...

Panasonic has announced plans to add DTS-HD MA decoding in a software update, coming in March. Sony is also expected to add DTS-HD MA decoding to the PS3 at about the same time.

Quote:
so let's say the PCM uncompressed audio track is kicking a$$, why bother putting DTS-HD audio track in BD releases ????

Because of a dirty little secret...

The "dirty little secret" that many in the BD camp don't like to talk about...is that you aren't getting master audio or "HD audio" at all with most LPCM tracks. Instead, you are getting compromised, lower-fidelity 16/48 tracks downconverted from the 24/48 masters. The LPCM tracks on all but four Blu-ray titles are lower-fidelity 16/48 tracks downconverted from 24/48 masters. According to DTS, even their lossy DTS-HD audio @ 3.0Mbps noticeably exceeds the quality of the current 16/48 LPCM tracks.

Virtually every studio including LPCM right now is doing it soley for marketing purposes. They know it is inferior to the lossy 24/48 DTS-HD and lossless 24/48 DTS-HD / TrueHD tracks that require less space on disk, but they do it anyway to sell you "HD Audio" that is compatible with your legacy Blu-ray players. Don't be surprised if they try to sell you a "special edition" re-release in a year or two with a full 24/48 track on a BD50.

FOX has taken the right approach with an eye toward the future. They include full, master quality 24/48 DTS-HD MA lossless tracks with all of their titles. Thanks to lossless compression, these 24/48 master quality tracks consume less space on every disk than lower-fidelity, downconverted 16/48 LPCM tracks. Current players can't decode them, but within 12 months, you won't be able to buy a player without full DTS-HD MA decoding, and most Blu-ray players in customers' hands (i.e. PS3s, Panasonic's BD players, among others) will support it within a matter of months. In the meantime, you get a 20-bit DTS-ES core track @ 1.5Mbps for backward compatibility that rivals 16-bit LPCM in quality.

Quite frankly, if you buy a player without DTS-HD MA or an upcoming DTS-HD MA upgrade, you are getting a player with inferior audio output quality. Based on comments from a Sony representative on the insiders thread, they have no intention of ever using LPCM at full 24/48 quality on a BD25 release, so if master quality audio is something you want, then you need a player with DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD decoding.
post #462 of 5157
yes actually that's why I took a PS3 instead of the Pioneer Elite BD player ... with the lack of info from Pioneer, I didn't want to risk wasting 1,5KUSD in a player in wich i'm not sure if it will support HD Audio codecs, too risky for me, can't afford it.
but I guess Pioneer doesn't mind since we have still no info about it, and I'm pretty happy with my PS3.
post #463 of 5157
NOTE: Thread title does say OWNERS ONLY. Let's keep the posts to people who actually own the unit. Thanks

Doc
post #464 of 5157
Quote:


so let's say the PCM uncompressed audio track is kicking a$$, why bother
putting DTS-HD audio track in BD releases ????

Because a 24/48 or 24/96 LPCM 5.1 or 6.1 track consumes more than twice the bandwidth/space as a DTS-HD encoding.
post #465 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

NOTE: Thread title does say OWNERS ONLY. Let's keep the posts to people who actually own the unit. Thanks

Doc

Understood, but we need a place to debate the merits of this player, both from specs point-of-view and real world usage. There are a lot of people who wouldn't mind owning this player but are apprehensive because of the cost or perceived shortcomings with its features. Bashing out these arguments somewhere can only alleviate some of that apprehension.
post #466 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by bferr1 View Post

Understood, but we need a place to debate the merits of this player, both from specs point-of-view and real world usage. There are a lot of people who wouldn't mind owning this player but are apprehensive because of the cost or perceived shortcomings with its features. Bashing out these arguments somewhere can only alleviate some of that apprehension.

IMHO only, the place NOT to do it is in a thread named:

"Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 First End User Reports - OWNERS ONLY"

If you don't own it, you are not an "end user" or an "owner", providing a "report" based on experience with "THE" player.

A read of this thread will find few if ANY owners complaining of what will or will not be in a future firmware update. Do "we" want all of the advanced audio codecs supported? Yes. Do "we" want a fix to the Descent problem? Yes. Am I an ignorant fool, blowing my money on a POS BD player because I am uninformed, stupid, moronic, and/or several other adjectives used to describe people who would buy such a crippled player? That is what has been inferred by this "debate of merits" that infected this thread.

Those of us that own this and other players, those of us that own BOTH formats know one thing... when it comes to this player and those that buy it, bashers (not pointing this statement at you) in this thread do not know jack! Again IMHO.
post #467 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Cathode View Post

IMHO only, the place NOT to do it is in a thread named:

"Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 First End User Reports - OWNERS ONLY"

If you don't own it, you are not an "end user" or an "owner", providing a "report" based on experience with "THE" player.

What a novel concept - paying attention to the name of the thread.

I vote for all non-owner postings to be removed from this thread to comply with

"Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 First End User Reports - OWNERS ONLY"
post #468 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by danam View Post

yes actually that's why I took a PS3 instead of the Pioneer Elite BD player ... with the lack of info from Pioneer, I didn't want to risk wasting 1,5KUSD in a player in wich i'm not sure if it will support HD Audio codecs, too risky for me, can't afford it.
but I guess Pioneer doesn't mind since we have still no info about it, and I'm pretty happy with my PS3.

If you own a ps3 why on earth do you require info of this or any other standalone player? You need to get to a GAMER forum.
post #469 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey p View Post

If you own a ps3 why on earth do you require info of this or any other standalone player? You need to get to a GAMER forum.

Nice thread crap. You might consider another forum too.

larry
post #470 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Cathode View Post

IMHO only, the place NOT to do it is in a thread named:

"Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 First End User Reports - OWNERS ONLY"

If you don't own it, you are not an "end user" or an "owner", providing a "report" based on experience with "THE" player.

A read of this thread will find few if ANY owners complaining of what will or will not be in a future firmware update. Do "we" want all of the advanced audio codecs supported? Yes. Do "we" want a fix to the Descent problem? Yes. Am I an ignorant fool, blowing my money on a POS BD player because I am uninformed, stupid, moronic, and/or several other adjectives used to describe people who would buy such a crippled player? That is what has been inferred by this "debate of merits" that infected this thread.

Those of us that own this and other players, those of us that own BOTH formats know one thing... when it comes to this player and those that buy it, bashers (not pointing this statement at you) in this thread do not know jack! Again IMHO.

I can understand that, and I apologize if this debate has chafed you or others in any way. That was not my intent. I have a Panny, which I think is pretty good. I merely wanted to get to the heart of the matter, in concrete and measureable terms, as to why the Pioneer is regarded so highly and whether it is worth the upgrade for me. And until my local Tweeter gets them in, I won't be able to see this player for myself in my own home. In the meantime, though, I would love to see Stacey Spears' or Kris Deering's benchmark test results, and I'm sure you do, too.
post #471 of 5157
sorry i also apologize, actually I didn't pay attention to the thread title.
but owning a PS3 doesn't mean I should go to a gaming forum :roll:
I bought it more for its BD capabilities than for a gaming purpose ...

ppl pull the trigger pretty fast here ... I'm not used to that ...
post #472 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

That is correct - the Manual - Page 44 says if the DVD is
authored in 7.1 and your Surround Processor supports
7.1 - then 7.1 will be output over HDMI. A lot of conditions
need to be met before it happens.

You still are not understanding...I am referring to 5.1 "not" 7.1 PCM. The Pioneer and Sony for some reason do not allow a 7.1 receiver to add the back PCM "PLUS" channels. The PS3 and the Panny do. If the Pioneer could do this, I would trade in my Panny for it. I am talking HDMI here and PCM only.
post #473 of 5157
Can anybody comment on whether there is any potential for up-conversion via the component outputs on the BDP-HD1.

Thanks
post #474 of 5157
Quote:


Can anybody comment on whether there is any potential for up-conversion via the component outputs on the BDP-HD1.

There is not. Doing so is prohibited by the DVD licensing agreement.
post #475 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

There is not. Doing so is prohibited by the DVD licensing agreement.

Which makes ZERO sense since even HD-DVD outputs 1080i via analog components.
post #476 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Which makes ZERO sense since even HD-DVD outputs 1080i via analog components.

Ooops. I was going to explain this, but I remembered that only Pioneer owners can post in this thread. Since I own the Panasonic, I can't properly respond. Hint: you're incorrect because you didn't read the response and question carefully.
post #477 of 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Stein View Post

Ooops. I was going to explain this, but I remembered that only Pioneer owners can post in this thread. Since I own the Panasonic, I can't properly respond. Hint: you're incorrect because you didn't read the response and question carefully.

Do I detect a trace of sarcasm in your facetiousness???...
post #478 of 5157
I realize that this is supposed to be the "owners only thread" but how are we supposed to own this player when it's not yet available anywhere? When is this elusive player supposed to be released anyways? No signs of a current or even a past listing on eBay, no online retailers with stock, and definitely no local (Memphis, TN) retailers with stock. Oh ya, and the official Pioneer Online store doesn't even offer this Blu-Ray player either.

Should I give Pioneer another month or two or just go with the readily available HDMI 1.3, 1080p/24hz, and advanced audio codec PS3 for 1/3 the price?
post #479 of 5157
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Geo View Post

I realize that this is supposed to be the "owners only thread" but how are we supposed to own this player when it's not yet available anywhere? When is this elusive player supposed to be released anyways? No signs of a current or even a past listing on eBay, no online retailers with stock, and definitely no local (Memphis, TN) retailers with stock. Oh ya, and the official Pioneer Online store doesn't even offer this Blu-Ray player either.

There is NO ONLINE Pioneer Store. So of course a non-existent store
would not carry the player.

If you are referring to the Pioneer Retail Store - They do carry them.
I got mine there and most of the other OWNERS got theirs from them
as well.

Tweeter nationally should have them by the end of the week as well
as Best Buy!

If you are trying to find this Pioneer Product from a Non-Pioneer Dealer.
GIVE UP!
post #480 of 5157
Thread Starter 
REPORT on Pioneer News From CES

I was able to learn a number of things from people
in the Pioneer Booth about Futures [GRIN]!

1) There is the appropriate hardware in the BDP-HD1
to enable internal decoding of Lossless Audio.

2) Beta FW versions of TrueHD Software Decoding is
at Dolby Labs for Certification.

3) The player can be updated with a DISK - this
feature has been extensively tested.

4) The Player can be updated via the Built-In
Ethernet Interface. This feature has also been
extensively tested. There is no MENTION of this
feature in the manual because it was printed BEFORE
Pioneer had their Update Servers ready to support
any updating over the Internet. This live updating
has also been tested with the servers that are now
in-place and it takes about 12 minutes for an
update via the Internet. This will will likely be
announced SHORTLY after CES ends.

5) There is an update disc for fixing the Descent
problem - which is a Lionsgate Authoring problem
that Pioneer has now made a FW change to adapt to
their incorrect directory structure. This UPDATE disc
should be available shortly - also or available over
the Internet Update Feature!
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