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Eye-One Display2 - Page 3

post #61 of 109
1/19/07 at 12:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

naturally.... right after buying a display lt to cal my new DLP projector, I find I may have bought the wrong thing

arrrrghh....

Why do you say this? I certainly wouldn't just assume it. I'll be calibrating a Samsung DLP rear projector. I'll try it with both the EyeOne Pro and the Display2 and I'll report back.
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post #62 of 109
1/20/07 at 5:38am
"Why do you say this? I certainly wouldn't just assume it."

"and the third for calibration of FPTV when using the diffuser. It is important to note that the FPTV calibration is performed with the diffuser in place as the Display 2 does not provide a calibration performed with the diffuser from the factory! This makes a significant difference in xy measured data as the diffuser material does impart a chromaticity shift. "

that's why....

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post #63 of 109
1/20/07 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

"Why do you say this? I certainly wouldn't just assume it."

"and the third for calibration of FPTV when using the diffuser. It is important to note that the FPTV calibration is performed with the diffuser in place as the Display 2 does not provide a calibration performed with the diffuser from the factory! This makes a significant difference in xy measured data as the diffuser material does impart a chromaticity shift. "

that's why....


There is an offset in the meter for use with the diffuser, so while it is not a specific calibration matrix for the diffuser, it essentially acts like one. With v3, we will be able to write out calibration profiles to the D2, so there will be a procedure to create a table internally to the meter to account for the diffuser. I will also be working on a small "arts and crafts" guide on how to install a higher quality diffuser. Barring your getting a DLP FP with a wacky color wheel or LED light source, you should be good with the D2.

Just put down the Spyder, and walk away slowly, and no one gets hurt.

Bill
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post #64 of 109
1/20/07 at 8:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

"Why do you say this? I certainly wouldn't just assume it."

"and the third for calibration of FPTV when using the diffuser. It is important to note that the FPTV calibration is performed with the diffuser in place as the Display 2 does not provide a calibration performed with the diffuser from the factory! This makes a significant difference in xy measured data as the diffuser material does impart a chromaticity shift. "

that's why....


If you are concerned about the effects of the diffuser, then, well, DON'T USE THE DIFFUSER. Take the measurements off the screen. This is what I've been doing with a DLP projector and getting great results. The diffuser is only necessary when you point the meter directly at the lens.
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post #65 of 109
1/20/07 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear5k View Post

Just put down the Spyder, and walk away slowly, and no one gets hurt.

Bill

Too funny Bill!

Also to Bill, regarding a higher quality diffuser, do you get the edmonds optical catalog?

Best,
jeff
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post #66 of 109
1/20/07 at 2:56pm
"Just put down the Spyder, and walk away slowly, and no one gets hurt. "

is that a hint, Bill ?
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post #67 of 109
1/20/07 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by greeno View Post

Also to Bill, regarding a higher quality diffuser, do you get the edmonds optical catalog?

Nope, don't get the catalog (anymore - the website is fairly easy to navigate). The P/N you are looking for is NT43-043, NT43-718 or NT46-106, but let me test whether the sucker feet can hang onto it before folks start rushing off to order it. The opal diffusers are fairly heavy in the size the D2 needs, so there may actually need to be some real "arts and crafts" with this one. I'm hoping it is as simple as buying a $10 piece of glass, though (and paying $10 for shipping. ).

Jim - It was a little more than a hint, but then, you've already made one contribution to the "CalMAN Home for Wayward Spyders".

Bill
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post #68 of 109
1/21/07 at 10:14am
"There is an offset in the meter for use with the diffuser, so while it is not a specific calibration matrix for the diffuser, it essentially acts like one. With v3, we will be able to write out calibration profiles to the D2, so there will be a procedure to create a table internally to the meter to account for the diffuser."

Each probe must be calibrated individually with the diffuser mounted to it to provide accurate results. A simple offset file will only provide accuracy for calibration at various levels of Gray however it will not be accurate for measurement of primaries and secondaries. Since a user in the field will not typically have a reference spectroradiometer to perform the calibration routine the degree of accuracy will not be reliable. Developing a matrix which was performed on one probe with a diffuser will not provide accurate results for another instrument when installed in it!
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post #69 of 109
1/21/07 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghibliss View Post

"There is an offset in the meter for use with the diffuser, so while it is not a specific calibration matrix for the diffuser, it essentially acts like one. With v3, we will be able to write out calibration profiles to the D2, so there will be a procedure to create a table internally to the meter to account for the diffuser."

Each probe must be calibrated individually with the diffuser mounted to it to provide accurate results. A simple offset file will only provide accuracy for calibration at various levels of Gray however it will not be accurate for measurement of primaries and secondaries. Since a user in the field will not typically have a reference spectroradiometer to perform the calibration routine the degree of accuracy will not be reliable. Developing a matrix which was performed on one probe with a diffuser will not provide accurate results for another instrument when installed in it!

Agreed that just coming up with a matrix or a offset is not the correct way to account for the diffuser and yes each probe must be calibrated to it's diffuser. In CalMAN now we allow users to have a meter to meter and/or screen to PJ offsets but these are just xy coords like everyone else does.

Trust me we have a plan for a much better way of doing this, including to allow users to create a calibration maxtrix for the D2 and for the other meters we support a new way to calculate the differences.
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post #70 of 109
1/21/07 at 11:55am
Thread Starter 
Since using the diffuser seems to be such a pain in the neck, and since using one doesn't seem to yield results that, at least based on my testing, are any more accurate than using it without, what's the point? Why not just use the probe WITHOUT the diffuser and save yourself the headache?
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post #71 of 109
1/21/07 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Since using the diffuser seems to be such a pain in the neck, and since using one doesn't seem to yield results that, at least based on my testing, are any more accurate than using it without, what's the point? Why not just use the probe WITHOUT the diffuser and save yourself the headache?

Mostly methodological purity. For users, if the diffuser doesn't add anything, then we would definitely recommend not using it. I am hoping that the third party diffuser improves upon the performance of the D2 vs. the i1 Pro with a similar diffuser.

Bill
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post #72 of 109
1/23/07 at 2:31pm
Will the Display 2 have any trouble with the DLP Mits 6-color wheel, e.g. WD-65831 model?

One more thing, how do these sensors attach to these Mits?
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post #73 of 109
2/20/07 at 8:29am
Derek:

Have you completed testing with DLP rear projectors and the Display2?
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post #74 of 109
2/20/07 at 7:46pm
If it's a bulb based DLP then yes the D2 will work just fine. We have not tested with the new led or laser DLP displays.
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post #75 of 109
3/20/07 at 5:12am
any opinions on whether the Display LT is ok for DLP then? I'm really enjoying this thread!

Optoma HD72.

Also anyone know of any mac software for calibration? thanks....
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post #76 of 109
3/20/07 at 8:28am
Thread Starter 
Read above.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9495885
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post #77 of 109
3/20/07 at 12:59pm
Thanks Tom..I'm a record producer by trade, so still struggling with the technology a bit !

I think i'm going to buy a Display LT..do you think the included software is any good for calibrating DLP projector at all, or know of any mac based software i could run? i think i could use virtual PC , but it makes my head hurt ! thanks .
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post #78 of 109
3/20/07 at 1:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catman2 View Post

Thanks Tom..I'm a record producer by trade, so still struggling with the technology a bit !

I think i'm going to buy a Display LT..do you think the included software is any good for calibrating DLP projector at all, or know of any mac based software i could run? i think i could use virtual PC , but it makes my head hurt ! thanks .

My guess is "no." You really need dedicated display calibration software. Calman is inexpensive commercial and Color HCFR is open source. Both work with the Display 2.
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post #79 of 109
7/31/07 at 5:03am
Can Eye-One Display2 be used on plasmas? I´ve read something earlier about lack of infra red filter. But is that fixed now?

If it is not working on plasmas, do anyone have another suggestion?
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post #80 of 109
7/31/07 at 6:06am
It can be used on plasmas.

Depending on the plasma it may report too much red. If that is the case then you just need to adjust your calibration to have it report less red.

The Calman guys have been looking at the potential IR issue. I say potential because I'm not 100% convinced it's necessarily IR but could also be a sensitivity to visible red that exists in some plasma models.

EDIT: I should add TomHuffman has a lot of data on how much red is over reported.
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post #81 of 109
7/31/07 at 6:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bovve View Post

Can Eye-One Display2 be used on plasmas? I´ve read something earlier about lack of infra red filter. But is that fixed now?

If it is not working on plasmas, do anyone have another suggestion?

yes it can be used on plasmas. The probe over reports red by a small amount, typically 3-4%. It has been tested with and without an external IR filter with no effect so near-IR leakage is not the cause. The most likely cause is the simple fact that it is calibrated for LCD and CRT spectral distributions and not plasmas which contain significantly more in-band red emission than LCDs. Tristimulus probes generate errors when used on displays in which the spectral distribution is significantly different from the one on which their calibrations are based. If you use it for white point calibration several avs members have reported errors of ~ 4 dE when calibrating to D65, you can compensate by shooting for a red level that is slightly high corresponding to a color temperature shift of ~150K (to the warm side).
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post #82 of 109
7/31/07 at 10:17am
I want to calibrate my DVD-player + front projector with a Display2. Does anyone know which software that supports using test patterns played from a standalone DVD-player and NOT from the computer with the measuring software?

HCFR does, but do the Gretag Match software that is included in the Display2 package do?
What about Calman?
Other suggestions?

/Ludvig
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post #83 of 109
7/31/07 at 10:36am
Both softwares that you mention support stand-alone dvd playback for patterns. I am not familiar with Calman, but, for HCFR you just copy the eyeone.dll file into the HCFR directory after you have installed the drivers onto the computer.
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post #84 of 109
7/31/07 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by angryht View Post

Both softwares that you mention support stand-alone dvd playback for patterns. I am not familiar with Calman, but, for HCFR you just copy the eyeone.dll file into the HCFR directory after you have installed the drivers onto the computer.

Which two? Do you mean Gretag Match and HCFR or Calman and HCFR?
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post #85 of 109
7/31/07 at 10:51am
I mean HCFR and Calman. Typically, those are better software packages than the Gretag. You will, however, have to install the driver from gretag to get your probe to work with either software.
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post #86 of 109
7/31/07 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by angryht View Post

I mean HCFR and Calman. Typically, those are better software packages than the Gretag. You will, however, have to install the driver from gretag to get your probe to work with either software.

That was bad news. I bought the Display2 because the LT version software did not support separate RGB gamma adjustments. Now that I don't seem to be able to use the Gretag Match software at all with my DVD, it means that I have just wasted $100 on display2 instead of going on an LT :-(
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post #87 of 109
7/31/07 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludvig_S View Post

That was bad news. I bought the Display2 because the LT version software did not support separate RGB gamma adjustments. Now that I don't seem to be able to use the Gretag Match software at all with my DVD, it means that I have just wasted $100 on display2 instead of going on an LT :-(

If you can take it back, take it back and get an LT. The probes are identical but the Calman or HCFR is better than the Gretag for home theater display calibration.

By $100, you mean $100 more than the LT, right? I paid a little over $100 for my LT, I just wanted to make sure I didn't get ripped off.
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post #88 of 109
7/31/07 at 1:48pm
It gets a little confusing around here because many people use eyoneLT and eyeoneD2 interchangibly but that's because they are the same probe. If you haven't read it yet make sure you read as much of this THREAD as possible. Also, this POST was almost the same question that you asked.

Stick with it, it's well worth it when you get your display calibrated. Speaking of that, what type of display are you trying to calibrate and what dvd are you going to use?
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post #89 of 109
7/31/07 at 10:17pm
You're right, the difference between LT and D2 was ~$100 here in Sweden.

The equipment are Panasonic DVD-S99 and BenQ8720.
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post #90 of 109
8/1/07 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludvig_S View Post

You're right, the difference between LT and D2 was ~$100 here in Sweden.

The equipment are Panasonic DVD-S99 and BenQ8720.

I am not familiar with the S99.

I had excellent success using that probe with my Benq PB6200 and Panasonic XP-30 with HCFR.

Good luck!
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