Audyssey Sound Equalizer User Report

I just got my Sound Equalizer installed yesterday by an installer that Audyssey hooked me up with. I had very little time to play, but so far I think it was worth every penny already! Also I would be remiss if I didn't mention that Audyssey had very friendly & helpful customer service.

Installation:
I delayed my installer many times. One of the EQ's limitations is that the customer doesn't get the software so if the environment changes you have get the installer back. So every time I thought of a new tweak I delayed. The tweaks of note are I actually have the bookshelf surrounds in a bookshelf so I put acoustic damping foam all around the shelf it was on. And I put acoustic decoupling foam for underneath them. I also got a heavy velvet pleated curtains to close off the bay window free hanging. And I finally had enough guts to move my sub to behind the listener based on many professional recommendations, not exactly a wife accepted location since that location is right in front of the door. I calibrated for one listener so there should be no compromises. My wife is just not into movies and really never watches (maybe because she's Australian) and she told me not to bother. I felt selfish and I told her that the EQ can do 32 seats! But she said what's the point? If the software had memory settings I could have just set up my wife as a different setting. Maybe when Nora Roberts actually runs out of books she'll finally enjoy movies

The install went smooth and very professional. The installer showed me graphs (quickly, so I tried to memorize) of before and after. I'll be getting a copy of the graphs in the mail from Audyssey soon.

Calibration:
I was expecting the bumpiest graphs and very far from a straight line. I have many acoustic issues. According to some room calculators I have horrible dimensions. One of the soft wares said I had to build a new room and would not continue to calculate. And I have a big Bench Bay window and my surrounds are in bookshelves. And I have a lot of wooden cabinetry.

My Right Main was surprisingly straight pre-calibration. Certainly my straightest. My entire right wall is covered in books so I guess books really do help. My Left Main was the worse by far (as I guessed). The combination of the right wall and fire place reflections and the floor to ceiling huge cabinet behind it. Perhaps room treatments would be helpful on the wall there. If I had the software I could play with treatments and see where If I could get it straighter pre-calibration. Maybe even playing with the speaker placement. Especially if all my audio will go through the EQ, I would want to know when the EQ thinks it is a straighter line so it would have to manipulate less. My center was second to the worse. I would have thought the surrounds. They are in bookshelves. So I guess the rule that I read on more than one occasion that bookshelves are the worse place is false. You can get worse: by placing bad things next to it. I'm guessing the center was so bad because of the motorized screen that comes down pretty close on top and behind with that mettle pole weight thingy. And there is the bench bay window centered directly behind it. I was also surprised how straight my pre-calibration surrounds were considering its placements. Maybe the damping foam helped?

I had a huge dip towards the beginning of the spectrum coincidently on all my 5.1 speakers. The software doesn't supply numbers with the graphs, but using the graphs that I see in magazines as reference, it could be around 60Hz. I guess I'll know the exact number when I get the graph. The funny thing is the software practically ignored it. After the calibration the big dip was still there. But hey, one dip is not bad at all. It's just funny that it is so BIG while the rest of the spectrum is so straight, even the lower freq.

I should mention that the post calibration line was very suspiciously straight. Put it this way: When magazines give positive reviews on speakers and display graphs to the reader to show how straight they are, those graphs now look far from a straight line in comparison. Note that I am not complaining and if the EQ now achieved this straight line, I am more than happy. It's just that I have never seen such a straight line in print in my entire life so I'm a bit skeptical. I'll get a Radio Shack Corrected Test CD to spot check them.

Use:
I should mention at this point I am no Audiophile. Not by far. I can't tell you about the sound stage and openness at certain freq and all that good stuff I read in the professional reviews. (My wife even mentioned that she wished I came with a sound EQ when I sang the traditional Hanukah lighting ceremony song last night ). But here is what I can tell as a layman without golden ears:

Previously, My system could never do Space Ships taking off. I always noted that. My $4K sub always sounded like a mallet with towels were banging in the track. I always thought perhaps it was my cabinets resonating because it improved when I put felt around all the doors. Same thing for wind. The swooshing wind you hear at the end of some trailers. So I Rented: Serenity (I distinctly remember my system could not do the space ship in that movie without me intuitively wanting to lower the volume. Anyway, It really sounded like the theaters do (My only reference for what a space ship should sound like) and no mallet thumping. It's actually a pretty neat trick for the recoding engineer to do. How can they get all those low freq to acoustically elevate?

Surrounds:
I rarely even hear them. I always figured that since sound engineers use surrounds only 5-10% of the time during movies and I have a bad habit of slouching and causing the back of the chair to cover my ear and that could account for rarely ever hearing them. And the bookshelf issue. The surrounds were another obvious improvement. I noticed during Serenity's opening space ship chase scene. The space ships swooshing around to right-left behind the listener. For the first time, I was hearing surrounds.

One advice that I thought of is to somehow mark the speakers' exact positions. If it changes the entire EQ is off.

Wish list:
1) Memory settings
2) Balanced Inputs
3) Avoid the A/D/A conversion somehow - maybe through a digital proprietary connection to processors?
4) Software should be available to users.
5) Remote (The remote could be useful because it runs very hot and a universal remote can be set to shut it off when you shut off the system and if they decide to add memery settings)

I originally got the EQ because room treatments are expensive and I was skeptical if non-audiophiles can detect a difference if we are not hearing a straight line. I figured the EQ would give me a good feel if I can personally detect. It's way cheaper investment than room treatments. The answer is yes, I can hear the difference. But now I am skeptical if I will hear the difference if I got room treatments post EQ.

As I said in our other thread, I emailed Audyssey and am still waiting for a response. I started this new thread because 1) There was little user feedback to what I feel is a very confusing product. 2) In appreciation to Audyssey for all their help. Normally I'm way too lazy.
It would be very funny if you are correct and my installer incorrect and he would have to re-install.
I am not a videophile, but my ISF guy had to come back a second time as well. I thought the settings were not right so I posted my concerns here. Some Marantz rep PM me his cell, I called him and read my settings. This Marantz Rep personally had the ISF guy call me to reschedule a new appointment. He did much better the second time around. This forum Rocks!

I'm beginning to think this forum is a pre-req to get my media delivered correctly.

I was bypassing by using my Proc/Amp's balanced inputs/outputs. They are enabled at the same time as the rca's and could run 2 home theaters at the same time. If I am to compare I need to use the environment that I am used to for the last three years. Besides the EQ's bypass mode runs at a lower volume so it is not a fair comparison. I've finally determined by using my Power Conditioner's voltage output display and sound meter that the EQ lowered my volume 8db to the amps inputs. I'll have to calculate that for the EQ's bypass mode. Besides I paid $1K+ for my NBS balanced cables pairs, I want to still use them sometimes. So it would be great if I could set the trims and distances in the Pre/Pro.

My subs crossovers do not shut off. Audyssey specifically said their software adjusts for this. They even had me Email them my Subs specs. So I hope you are wrong.

My installer specifically said that is incorrect. My installer left the trims and distances to 0 both before and after calibration. I can't test because I can't remember all 12 settings. I imagine I should be experiancing Lip-Synch issues If it should be implemnted and it's not. I'll test a few movies now.

Also I rember that the distances had decimal points, does that mean that the EQ is out of wack if my Proc doesn't acccept decimal points?

Audysseys has relationships with receiver companies. I imagine the receivers implement the software while still in the digital realm. Couldn't the receivers make a slight modification and send the digital signal to another chassis instead of some chips and the EQ can just loop the finished signal back. I think it would be a great gimmick for Audyssey if there are receivers that have Audyssey Equipped Outputs. Of coarse the software can be implemented in the receivers, but the nitpickers will always want the dedicated device.

I believe you. Someone from the forum quoted me from the manual

Isn't part of the EQ's job to blend in all the speakers? Doesn't the software ask if it is a multi room set-up? If blending is part of the job than distances/delays and trims I would think is crucial to the listening environment/bubble. That seems like a very big out of whack issue if my trims are big numbers. What if my trim is +9db for my left main?

That won't help either. Shifting the speakers throw the EQ out of whack. But I am more concerned with the trims.

Audyssey assured me that the software could have parameters that can't change. All my Crossovers are overwritten to 60Hz for all channels as per Audysseys advise because of some of my systems limitations.

My Pre/Pro's manual settings still remain 0.

Stereo sounds horrible in my room without EQ even with my NBS XLR cables and the lack of an extra A/D/A conversion. I was forced to use Pro Logic II. And I was strictly stereo until I created my listening room. I'll compare Pro Logic II's next.

So I just do a tonal balance? I have the Avia DVD.

Since I am not at home, in the meantime I could maybe just Email my installer and ask for my trims and distaces, maybe he can still give it to me?

Thanks

More to report:
I realized now that I never really had a vertical sound stage. I totally followed the sound of the space ship taking off. I must have rewound that 10 times. Theaters don't distinctly elevate like that. And this is in a room with Horrible dimensions (19'x11'2"x8'), Bench Bay Window, Fire Place, French Glass Pocket doors, 2 Garden Bay windows, 2 speakers in bookshelves and a lot of wooden cabinets. As my wife would say: Brilliant!

I wonder what the professional reviewers will say of the EQ. Does the EQ have a sonic signature especially with 2 extra conversions? What kind of sonic price are we paying for having the EQ in the audio chain? Does it negatively effect the sound stage?

I'm guessing that in most non-dedicated HT's, not having the EQ effects the sound stage more negatively then have the EQ with IT affecting the sound stage. To put it another way: Getting the flat line not so perfectly might be better then not having the flat line at all. Especially if you're not an audiophile.

Although, Krell won't be happy knowing I'm taking their DAC's and converting it a couple more times. I've read countless positive reviews on Krell DACs

So this is the famous null. I've also read articles that said EQ's can't solve this issue. I have also read that EQ's doesn't solve other issues. For example, freq that resonate longer then they should. I think they are called decaying modals. I am still doing analysis on this very complex subject and have much to learn.

But keeping the big picture in mind, I wonder if I can hear the difference. Will I notice that a few low freq got skipped in the track? To what extant will I hear some other resonating freq while I am only suppose to be listening to other freq, if at all? I was wondering if how the software compensated for these issues. I see they did not compensate for nulls if you are correct. I wonder if the software compensates for the other issues that I have read can't be compensated for. Audyssey's website says their EQ does not preclude passive room treatments so I guess they agree. I plan on getting room treatments one day, just so I know I am hearing accurate information. It's just that knowing what the perceivable differences are post EQ will certainly influence the priorities of my next upgrade, perhaps it makes more sense to try Dolby HD with the EQ then room treatments now? In my situation it was clear that room treatment and/or EQ was the highest priority. I just could not figure out which I should try first. The $2,500 was deal maker for me. There is the plug and play and wife acceptance factor attraction as well.

It occurred to me after I installed the EQ if these issues that EQ doesn't solve are perceivable in my setup. If yes, how perceivable is it to an average person who wasn't gifted to have a golden ear. Now that I have been more intimate with the EQ, I understand soundstage more. I hear things actually localized to a particular part of the listening bubble. So there are very perceivable positive differences with the EQ even to me. I just wonder Post EQ w/o treatments Vs. Post EQ with treatments.

I happen to want objective numbers. Personally, I can't detect any differences for things that are not scientifically measurable. Certainly as a non-audiophile.

Don't get me wrong, I believe there are people that do. There are people out there that can detect openness at certain freq, like professional reviewers. I can't. The goal of Media Delivery Systems like Home Theaters are to deliver the media accurately. Accurate is defined as the recording engineer/artist intended. That is a tangible goal. If people with golden ears found ways to improve accuracy, or hear inaccuracies, all the power to them. Perhaps they are more gifted. Creating a Media Room that all the gifted people in the world like is not a tangible goal, however. At the very least that goal should perhaps be phased in, and a person should start off by being scientifically correct and move on from there.

Gifted listeners like professional reviewers and audiophiles do help the consumers and for people like me they are a reference. If many gifted listeners say a product is lacking, I wouldn't buy it even if I went as far as testing it myself and couldn't hear the differences. On the flip side, if many gifted listeners give positive reviews I would buy it because I would think that I have such a state of the art system that even gifted listeners like it even though it can't be scientifically measured. Even Gifted listeners must respect the fact that there are more gifted people than them. And I read that the older you get the less even the gifted listeners can hear accurately. They have rings tones that only kids can hear, for example. So I guess gifted listeners must also listen to what their fellow gifted listeners have to say. Gifted listeners opinions should influence someone who sincerely wants accurate music.

You reminded me of another point that I was thinking about posting as independent thread because it was the most noticeable tweak I have ever done in the history of my system and I have never seen it reported:
I had the case of the gimmees for a Video Processor, and there is the getting your video accurately thing. Wavy flags aside, I wanted to know if I can personally see the difference in real life material, especially since professional reviewers were saying I had a decent processor built in to the proj. So I convinced a dealer to lend me a $10K processor. I was A/Bing for weeks, I even took off a couple of day off work for this because I wanted it really bad. I was getting frustrated not noticing. One time when I was A/Bing it hit me to double check that I cleaned my glasses. And Wow! What a difference. The most noticeable tweak that I experienced was the glasses wipes that Wal-Mart sells for $2.99. It's like a shade has been lifted off the screen. It never ceases to amaze every time I A/B using the wipes.